Two years this July my mother has been living with me. She is a mean and hateful woman and I just can't do it anymore.

OK getting it straight - Beth is from the county and Peggy is social services - sorry - low on sleep these days and had to nap this afternoon, and it sounds like both of them are better than J, who, in in my view, is worse than oldfashioned. IMHO, it is incompetent of her to not accept the dynamics in your family, and proceed with appointing a guardian, considering the contact she has had with the DQ and you. Hopefully she is out of the scenario that is developing now. (((((((((((((((((((((Sweetheart))))))))))))))))) I understand the pain of recalling, and voicing the perverted things your mother has said to you.There are some things my mother has said to me that I have never told anyone, and she is not as bad as yours. I pray for healing of those hurt parts. I also understand how people saying they are sorry cuts you. I have only one hand, from birth, - no doubt it didn't help mother's attitude towards me as physical perfection and things" looking right" are and obsession with her. My aunt once called it a tragedy. I refuse to accept that. Like you, I have overcome and.or learned to live with what life has handed me, be it only one hand, a BPD mother, or an alcoholic father and I don't want to be pitied, I want to be respected for what I have done with my life.
It would be totally unbearable if they don't follow through. You have had enough. I do think meeting with you, and Doug, and the sw after the evaluation is a good idea. Then you have it from the horse's mouth, or as close to as you can. I wonder if there isn't some way for at least some of her medical history to be accessed for these evaluations, but God is in charge and I believe the right thing will come about eventually. I trust Beth is keeping good records of what you have told her so it is down in black and white for perpetuity, and available for anyone concerned to read when needed.
My hat is off to you courageous lady. The cards were stacked high aganst you and you have overcome - you have KICKED ASS! This is traumatic, Give yourself some space to breath, to relax. Give yourself a treat - you more than deserve it. Experience and enjoy normality within your own family. You have my deepest respect.
Love, ((((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))) and prayers ♥♥♥
Joan

Jeez, Cattails... how can anyone follow that heartfelt, well written, thoughtful comment? I'm still thinking about blue tights and tree ninjas. Well done, my friend. Lisa...what Cattails said. xxoo.

Ahwwwwww: Exhale and take a deep breath. That's what I just did. Lisa, I know your mom is not your problem, but taking the step to call Social Services and get Beth involved was such a wise decision.

Your mom needs to be seen and incorporated into a system that will keep a file on her and her needs. People fall through the cracks all the time. They system is only as good as the weakest link and if you are unfortunate enough to hang your hat on someone like Jane; it's not just bad for you, it's bad for your mom.

Even though we all agree that you need to stay away from DQ, it would be hard for me to not get involved when I see the system (Jane) not taking the proper steps. After a reasonable time, the ball needs to be taken away from her. She is not worthy of the challenge and too many continue to suffer as a result.

So, I am thrilled that you took action. My heart goes out to you that you have to continually be re-victimized due to the negligence and inadequate training of some you have depended on, but taking steps to look further will save all of you needless suffering in the long run. So, GOOD FOR YOU, YOU KICK THAT BALL INTO THE END ZONE!!!!!!

If your mom does not yet meet the criteria for nursing home care, that's fine. She will eventually. If she is deemed to be able to make reasonable choices on her own behalf, that's fine and she may not get a guardian this minute. (Love how she won't release her medical records.)

Nevertheless, she's on the radar now. One of the things I would ask Beth is does the buck stop with her? Does she have the ability to be continuously kept in the loop. If your mom goes into the hospital, is she notified. Will she speak with the doctors when your mom is admitted? Is she kept abreast of what is happening at your mom's assisted living? Does Jane realize that she is going to get slapped upside the head with some tuna cans if she does not keep Beth informed? Is Beth asking and expecting that of Jane?

Every circus needs a ring leader. I hope Beth will be that person. You can support what's best for your mom while also supporting what's best for you. You just need to have that-got-it-together-go-to-person you can depend on. Maybe she has finally appeared.

You will rest easier knowing that someone is taking a role in your mom's life. It will relieve much of your anxiety. Beth sounds like someone who will treat you with respect and waste no time stepping in to the fray. She is the opposite of Jane.

You have made many wise and courageous moves over the past months. This, in my opinion, is another one. It has the potential to bring a close to the never ending saga. It may very well be a case of management now, not involvement. Beth manages the situation, you are not involved other than to let her know if things are not going according to design.

I don't know if I have said this before, but I'll risk repeating myself. All institutions, be it law enforcement, social work, medical intervention, government, etc. etc., go through trends. The goal is to look back at past mistakes and see if a different approach will work better. Sometimes the goal is just to qualify for funds to engage the next dog and pony show, but usually the ultimate goal is to do better.

Jane comes from an old school. Reunite family at all cost. Believe you can educate them, even if your mind tells you they have no comprehension of what you are saying and no ability to control their actions. Somehow they will live a better life and support each other.

Children die all the time of abuse. They die because the orphanage was impersonal and abusive and then they died because the foster home was abusive. And then they died because someone like Jane was taught to reunite and there was no escape. I could go on and on about this, but my point is no one can do much good unless they respect their gut as well as their education. Trends don't replace common sense. Maybe Beth has the attributes to see the big picture.

Take those deep breaths and try to relax. You are a kick ass WOMAN now, not a child at the mercy of a sick and cruel mother. Even if it feels that way sometimes, just look around you. Look at Beth and Jen, Doug and his amazing family. You've already made it past the finish line.

Sending you love from my heart and white light from the soul. Cattails

I like the points you make Jeanne.

Lisa, this all sounds very encouraging. Let us hope that there are finally some professionals involved who get it. I don't blame you for being still a little skeptical and for not getting your hopes up too far. But assume that this is the real deal unless proven otherwise and go forward doing what you have to do to extricate yourself completely.

Everyone understands divorce. We don't have a comparable well-understood way for children to remove themselves from their parents. (Parents can disinherit a child.) You want your estrangement to be recognized legally. Mother is Not Your Problem. I hope that you do not have to explain the reasons to more legions of strangers. Let us hope that this is the last round. Let us hope that appointing a public guardian is the official recognition of the estrangement. And that even people with blinders on as tightly as Jane will be forced to acknowledge that DQ is Not Lisa's Problem, whether they approve of that or not.

If it turns out that DQ is not deemed to need a guardian, fine. Then she does not need you, either. Either she can operate independently or she cannot. And either way IT IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM!! Keep that firmly in mind. Repeat it as often as needed, to whomever needs to hear it. If anyone is judgmental about that, it is their problem, not yours. You are an amazing survivor.

Thank you so much for taking the time to keep us informed. You are an inspriation!

Lisa, sorry you have those knots honey. Does it feel like a double victimization? First Your DADQM hurt u with it and then you have to be hurt again by telling them enough for them to get the real magnitude of it? Anyone would find it hard, humiliating, even embarrassing, I'd think. They r sorry to have had you relive a horrible experience so they can get the job done, but I'm sure too that they r both shocked, ashamed that the system they represent let you down andthey are surely sad to know you went through such horribleness growing up-as u know no child ever deserves that. You r the miracle and the exception: someone who put together a hard fought good life that you can be proud to celebrate! Keep being proud-you're amazingand we r proud we are your friends. Thank you for letting us in-it's an honor, Kim

Ok I'm breathing. Beth is the woman I called that works for the county. I called to start myself to get the county to take guardianship for mom. This Beth told me someone would call me back because she just couldn't believe what she was hearing. So she picked it up herself. Apparently, (exactly what you've all been telling me) they Could have asked the county to step in to start this at any time. So now they know I've stepped in and called myself. Luckily the hops did keep mom for 2 nights and with her drs approval with social services an evaluation has been ordered. From what I understand, she refuses to sign a release for them to review her medical records. Kim, I have filled them in on the Meds abuse. And yes, the xanex abuse too. Peggy is the social worker at the facility who has been assigned to mom to oversee this. She told me understands after speaking with Beth how skeptical I am that something is being done.

Emjo: I'll see if I can explain these knots . When I come here and tell all of you what she has done to me in my lifetime, I feel such a peace with it. It is so hard telling these people the phrases, I don't know why god took Johnny instead of you. I should have drowned your ass at birth. How in gods name did I end up with a Fu***ing stupid fat ass like you for a daughter. These are things I have to tell to make them understand. They have to know why I can't be a part of her life. And every time I have to say it out loud, it just feels like it take another little chunk of my soul. I've told the sw from the cty, and the one over this evaluation. I'm done you need to figure it out. When they say I'm so sorry it cuts thru me like a knife. And I do tell them, don't you dare say that to me. I have made a beautiful life for myself, with a wonderful husband and children. I celebrate my life because I overcame. So emjo, that's the best that I can explain it. That is the last time I will speak out loud of it with these social workers. I told her I want you to know this will be unbearable if you promise me these things are being done and it isn't followed thru. After the evaluation she offered to meet with Doug and I alone with the sw from the county. So that's how Doug and I will do it. Love to you my friends, lisa

Oh Judy, I'm so sorry. Let us know how how things r going, prayers and hugs, kimbee

Looks like u all were posting while I was writing. We all seem to have the same read on things, let that comfort u! Judy, I'm going to see what happened yesterday, be back soon. Kb

Here I am, checking in. My med's didn't work just got dif antibiotic, but 5 x worse than yesterday. About what's going on w Lisa... Not sure I have the players all straight? Beth, not babygurl Beth, works for a public social services agency, or for the agency where DQ's apt is?. Who is Peggy? Ok. My best guesses here. J's agency probably has multiple levels of care. Because the DQ kept running to inpatient care, for drama n a little bit of care, decision was made to address those darn persistent BREATHING problems in the in-house rehab ctr. This way DQ could be further assessed and pulmonary issues handled with less chaos to all involved. The patient always has a choice: in this case it may have been A-D/C from agency who operates A/L & Rehab; B-make your own arrangements w family and have family confirm w us, or C-Go to state psych facility for further care/eval. Guess which option was most appealing? Just a guess, tho-lot of info gaps on agency issues n personnel. Lisa, glad u asked for psych eval; also ask for her to be referred for substance abuse eval. Make sure they are aware of some examples of drug seeking behaviors ER, doc shopping, anger at ur preventing getting high on med's , agitation when w/o narcotics, giving card to addicted relatives, discharge from pain clinic, tearing up hospital RX when dose too low to suite her). Glad Beth has wall of pride. Actions do speak louder than words, you all deserve some action! And u can have input-u kno her the best- u don't have to accept a role that allows u to be set up for further abuse. I doubt a busy SW will have time to read this really long thread, even though it's interesting and offers so much in many ways. Bottom line they need to get: u endured a lifetime of abuse and family disfunction, made a life for ur self n still tried to help n support your mom. That was an innocent but well intended effort. When u let her move in ur life damaged further and ur family hurt as she abused you, ur special needs adult child and wrecked havoc at ea chance. Left behind hurt n vanity stuffed w poopy depends. Constantly attempts to reengage u. Not willing to have her abuse interfere w health and family. She has proven it futile. She has had trauma, grief, likely personality disorder (dah?!) and opioid dependence. [has there not also been some Xanax abuse along the way too?] DOUG & Lisa & rest of Fam: time to breath. Let go of those stomach knots! Kick Ass Women r still here for u. U r up for these smaller challenges that may be ahead. The worst is over! Whatever u do, don't let her back in the house for any reason-not for a visit, a break or any other cause, not even a glass of water. She would try to mow down the boundaries u have beautifully built. We all love u bunches n are praying for you. U kno the saying: Never too late to have a happy childhood? Luv and bunches of hugs. As u do for me Lisa, holding you close to my heart. Kimbee

Judy, what happened yesterday? Did I miss it? I feel like I'm developing some MCI or worse. U all stay honest w me, ok? Hope today was better!

On iPhone-can't review, hope it all makes sense and auto-correct didn't change too many words!

You are doing great, Lisa - yes the ball is finally roliing-in the right direction . I hope that J is removed from her position, as she has let you down more than once. A guardian should already have been in place, or the process well on the way. I know who Beth is but who is Peggy? I must have missed something. Breathe deep, all is well and as it should be. Professionals are dealing with your mum and getting her the evaluations, and hopefuily treatments that she needs. She cannot heap abuse on you the way she has been, and that is good - for you and for her. Where is the knot in the stomach coming from -anxoiety? fear? of what you mum can do to you. Relax sweetie, the KAL are here and we have your back. Social Services Beth has heard you, prayers going out for peace and for your mum to be processed thoroughly and properly this time. Finally things are getting to where they should have been years ago. So your mum is angry - what's new? I do understand they need some information from you, but apart from giving them info , she is not your problem! many hugs ((((((((((((((((((((((lisa))))))))))))))))))))))) - love ya joan

Sounds like the real deal here Lisa.... the fact she was listening, shared her own observations, and said she would make it as painless as possible for you, but at the same time being honest with you about needing further questions anwered... I think J was stuck in her mind set of reuniting familes, which is all well and good under different circumstances... sounds like Beth listened to you and that is more than Jane did.... so ya, go ahead and breathe,,, sounds like the ball is rolling... keep us updated...... hiugs across the miles...

Judy, I decided to make the call to county social services. Mom has been moved to the building next door in their rehab center to be evaluated. When I explained the situation, and I need to have a guardian appointed for her, social services stepped in. This should have been done already. She has claimed she can't take care of herself and the trips to hospital are out of control. She's very angry. So now social services in our county will stay involved.

I'm so sorry the fear and anguish you are feeling. Just unimaginable to me. So when you need some strength we are all here for you. I know the only thing that will take the fear away is WHEN the dr says, it's gonna be ok. So catch the love and hugs I'm sending you!!!!! Lisa

Lisa, I'm so confused. You know the crap day I had yesterday - still feeling shell shocked and weepy. So, maybe its my lack of sleep adding to my natural duh-ness, but why was your mom taken out of her home today and why does she have no choice?

Where's Kimbee when you need her???! She'd be a good one to comment here! Kimbee....where are yoooooou?

All I can do is send you some positive energy and let you know I'm mentally giving you a hug. Or...maybe I'm just giving you a mental hug. :) ... Hugs, love and tuna cans. I'll look for updates and helpful comments later. xx, J.

Ok, sitting here on pins and needles waiting to hear what you think. What this woman told me, is this what should be expected from a social worker? And she told me if there were any special requests as far as test, ect, to ask for these in the next week. What they test her on will be in her file at al, but more importantly it will be on file with social services. They are now involved because of my call I made. And this will be very important, right? Please give me any suggestions girls. My chance has come. She will be in the system. I just want it all out there. I'm feeling so sick to my stomach. Doug just called. He just spoke with Peggy. Said he needed to hear her verify what she told me. Said he's kinda got a knot in his stomach. He told me " call me when the girls tell you to breath so I can start breathing." well, I'll be back. Going to grocery and take Beth to work.....

I knew talking to a woman named "Beth" had to be a good omen. She called me back. She said when we talked that something was really off about how things were being handled at al where mom is. So she made calls herself and asked some questions. She told me she had a problem believing what I was telling her because they deal closely with them and the outcome is outstanding when they place their elderly there. She told me big changes took place today and you will be getting a phone call in the morning. Just had a 70 minute phone call(looked at phone time;)) mom was taken out of her home and taken to their short term rehab facility where she will be required to stay for 2 weeks. She gets no choice in the matter. I told her before this phone discussion goes any further, it's not my intention to insult you but I need to know if she has the colledge degree to support her job title. Wow! 22 years and her education has been ongoing for all those 22 years. She told me when we meet personally she will show me her wall of pride in her office. She stated mom should have been sent to her for an assessment when she moved in. She used the term out of control. She's been there 1 day and she has observed her during physical therapy and has not noticed anything that isn't normal aging problems. She spoke with her for nearly 2 hours yesterday, and told me I'm sorry, but you may realize she blames you for everything. Yes, I know this. Told me she's very angry, very bitter, so I welcome you to come see her, but advise against it. So I opened up and told her more than I would ever think of telling j. She said I did exactly what I should have done to get her out of my home. I told her about aging care and how I found the support I needed. I also told her if she would like to take the time to read this it would give her an honest, true picture of where my mom is mentally and why I'm asking you to do an psychiatric evaluation on her. She will have that done next week. It was being scheduled today. She told me she will make this painless as possible for me, but they will need questions answered thru these next two weeks and will I do that for her and promises not to have to deal with DQ. She said this is what I do. If she's making bad choices, she will get the ball rolling to have guardianship appointed. She said by observing her she already can tell physically she's not going to meet the criteria for nursing home. She's calling me at 3 today with any more questions that she needs immediate help with understanding. Oh, before I go, I told her she will see some unflattering comments about j from the kick ass girls and I think you'll understand why. And if she reads this, feel free to comment. So girls, she invited me to see her degrees. So I'm thinking I'm dealing with the real deal here? Love you all, lisa

Lisa, while it isn't your problem, you r making a great faith effort to get DQ someone to take over making decisions for her, whereas, then u can eventually provide input, or not. And she can accept the help, or not. I think until someone is in charge of her decisions and funds, everything will fall back to you. I think she is desperately seeking her old normal feelings of chaos and dysfunction. She can't seem to engage someone to handle her feelings for her, her usual coping mechanisms for avoiding responsibility for self, fear, feelings, behaviors has been removed-no one around to blame-just her pitiful self, all alone! I think THAT is why she states she can't manage on her own-gotta have someone to transfer her crap to. Cause our Lisa's not accepting it any more!! Go Lisa! Keep rocking it! You have made BIG progress! Hope Jen will feel better soon. Luv to all, kimbee

Lisa: If your mom is going to lob another shit storm in your direction, please don't worry. You will handle it. It will be ok!!!

Kimbee in spot on. Go over J's head.

If your mom can't live on her own, then she can live in a nursing home. Social Services should be able to help get her qualified for Medicaid. As Jeanne said, it's not your problem.

Is "Beth" the person from Social Services you are to meet with or is she someone at the hospital?

Hang in there. Don't forget to breath. It will be ok. Love, Cat

Lisa if you find out Jane the unpro is not a real social worker-my daughter was in a phych hospital with an eating disorder and they passed one of the interns off as having her PHD-I call the hospital and ask to speak to Dr. Solumon and they said who is that? anyway let us know she should have a business card with her title on it.

Lisa, just for the sake of discussion, let us say that your mother cannot take care of herself. How would that be your problem?

I will kimbee. For some years now, I've made it a point to always ask the name of person I'm dealing with. Woman's name is Beth I spoke to today. This just has to be a good omen;)))))

Sorry you still feel bad kimbee. Same happened when we had wind storm here few years ago. We actually had to go to hospital for 2 days to get Doug his insulin shots. We used that pharmacy for years and they called him by name, and they still couldn't give him his insulin. Hope your home didn't receive any damage. Sooooo, your a retired social worker. Wow! Now I get how j just aggravates the shit outta you. I didn't receive the phone call. But I will call again tomorrow. I'll be persistent. I called the hospital and asked for her room number just to see if they admitted her. They didn't. I had told her the last time I spoke to her that if she persisted the ridiculous farce of having herself taken to the hospital I would contact social services to send them to help her get started on Medicaid. Then she could be placed in nursing home with referral from her drs. I just don't know how that works. Except for last visit, 99.9% of the time there is nothing wrong with her except the breathing issue. It's so dam frustrating. She is somewhere that she can live her life with independence. Make friends. She will not do it. What a waste she has made of her life. Just pure wasted it. And girls, I know she has a plan hatched in that warped brain of hers. I just can't figure it out. I know it in my gut. 2and 3 times a week calling 911? Doug, Jen and I talked tonight. I so hope we are being paranoid, but we all feel like a shit storms coming. Don't know when how or why. We just feel it. Jen is convinced she about to claim I thru her out knowing she's in bad health and cannot care for herself. Then j tells me she admitted she's not able to care for herself. And she dam well can. Maybe we are over thinking this. So dang tired and discusted tonight. Grrrrrr

Lisa, when visit happens, fix out the role of person who shows up. SW, case mgr, case worker, assistant, intern. Know who u are dealing with-will be important as you move along. I more frequently see unqualified people sent out to assess, should not b the case, but often is.

I got stocked up on med's today-finally, for sinus, ear infection n bronchitis. We had massive storms w lots of hail. Pharm 1: no power, later, power no cash registers. Pharm 2: out of my rx's. Pharm 3 had my meds, filled while I picked up dinner to bring home, picked up, zoomed part way home husband called-pharm 3 called home, they didn't return ins card. 20 min back to town, back home. In bed, feeling awful. Just had to catch up here. I must confess here: I am retired social worker--can we stop referring to J as that, 'cause she's NOT a professional SW and PROFESSIONAL is what we are SUPPOSED TO BE. Our Austin has her pegged-She IS lazy OR not qualified OR BOTH ( my vote). Lisa: stop talking to Jane. You or doug go over her. Isn't the place where DQ ' apt is a large social service provider? J is making them look bad-worse yet, she is keeping your mom from the treatment she really needs. When working, we as agency had guardianships n staffed cases clinically to hash out how to best help the individual. We accepted input from families-sought it out, since they frequently had the big history. May we refer to J from now on as just J, or DAJ or NonproJ. Honestly I m embarrassed by people like her n there r plenty of them. Usually untrained, uneducated or just lazy morons. Please let's not think of her as a SW, even if she does call herself one. There now, I've said it, it's been bothering me every time she does some new dumb thing. Lisa: get someone else on it, she doesn't deserve ur time. N yes, u should have your family there-very much right thing to do. If you want a KAL BRIGADE w u, let us know! Also, please call the court and main agencies who handle guardianships there ( ur contact at the Sr abuse resource) can tell u who handles them. Find out if an application has been even initiated-j had told you ages ago she had started the process. Start calling her out to her supervisors. We're talking about peoples lives here. That j could never make it to blue tights, tuna cans & springy sneakers.other than to run from the brigade of course! My rant for the night. Mom told me tonight she is tired, worn out and old, but prefers it to the alternative! Good progress in a week, huh?
Big hugs, prayers and respect to each of you special blessings, kimbee

It would be interesting to know Jane's actual work position -I had to deal with social workers-or so I thought but they were really RN's working out of the Social Service office-I would ask her her job title and what degrees she has-either she is lazy or not qualified.

Jane needs to go back to college and retrain, she has obviously lost sight of what her position actually entails. dingbat.

Lisa: I think you are doing the right thing. Your mom needs to be "in the system" and Jane is no help in making that happen. Meeting as a family is spot on. It's not weak, it's united. I think the person will be impressed in meeting a solid family that has been through so much together. I hope the appointment happens soon.

I want to mention how sorry I am about Jen's medical issue. You and Doug are such great parents.

Keep us posted. Love, Cattails

Meeting the person with your family is just as it should be, Lisa, nothing weak about it. Your mother is your mother, but her behavior affects your whole family, not just you. Strength in numbers. And, I can't help but think that if this person you're meeting with, hears the story from all of you, it'll make more of an impact. Jane is supposed to be calling Doug. He made no bones about that to her a while back. Jane may need a visit from the tuna can gang.

What she chooses to do with the help they offer will all be on her, right???
Right
and no, no weakness - smarts!

When I have to meet with the person, I've already decided we will only meet with him/her as a family. Guess it shows a little weakness on my part, but I want my family with me.