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Well, there's two ways to look at this. One.... this really sucked and it shouldn't have happened, and she always hurts you, and its always something with the DQ. Or, two... well, it sucked but something was accomplished today and hopefully what was accomplished today will put an end to the constant intrusion and abuse. Jane got an earful. She got to hear your side of it without you saying a word. She heard the way your mom treats you, and that speaks volumes without you having to. And, Doug made some headway with Jane. Anxious to hear what he has to say about it. So, it was a sh*tty day on one hand, but a really productive day on the other hand - if it puts an end to this abuse. I absolutely love that Doug knew where to find you. Chin up. Good things ahead. You did well today, as usual. I wish we lived closer. I just made a mean cheesecake!
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DQ is the new name for Mpm. from here on in.
AND DQ is "not my problem." I'm glad Jane heard everything. From now on, maybe, you can say, "Not my problem," Lisa. Again, be CLEAR what is and what is NOT "your problem," and prepare to truly let her go. Who cares what others think? DQ is NOT YOUR PROBLEM.
I hope this next part doesn't sound off-topic, and I am not looking for condolences, but my Dad -- who always wanted things His Way or the Highway -- died on Friday. And the overall fact is that it is better for all of us, himself included, that he is gone. I spent so much time and attention and so many resources trying to make an irrevocably unhappy person happier. It doesn't work. Your example, Lisa, helped me in the end. I'm so grateful.
Listen these wise women. "Not my problem" for EVERY PROBLEM you get presented with, from now on. Included death. Take care of the people who matter. She is not one of them.
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Jeanne: I agree 100 %. In my humble opinion, I think Jane does it because she is trying to shift responsibility. If she calls Lisa, at least she can say, "Well, I called the daughter and she refused to come." It is a no brainer to have the medication picked up by a cab or courier. Plus, I thought the pharmacy MQ used does deliver. Maybe it was a new prescription that needed to be filled. Regardless, with a little thought, it could have been handled.

Jane may have been responding more to the physical signs of distress that DQ was manifesting and she has probably been trained to avoid any potential for a law suit. First order of business being, shift responsibility and document everything you try to do. Another example of this was when DQ went by ambulance to the hospital and "refused" to take her purse. Then Jane calls Lisa, "Your mother refused to take her purse and has no clothes." Jane is probably thinking, "If I gave her purse to the EM's then DQ could claim money was missing from it and I would be responsible for going against her wishes." This is crap, but it is the way some places work, especially if they responsible for taking care of a vulnerable population.

I'm speaking for myself here, but if it were me, I would call Adult Protective Services and talk to the people I already know there. I would tell them that I will not take any responsibility for my mother. I would reinforce that she is a sociopath and a chronic liar. I would tell them that I intend to send them a letter in writing advising them that they need to have DQ mentally evaluated and a guardian appointed. I would tell them that I also intend to give spirit house a letter telling them not to call me with regard to my mothers needs. They can advise me if she has been hospitalized, but they can not call upon me for intervention due to Mother's mental illness and her abusive nature.

I don't know if Lisa is up to this and we will see how things progress with the conversation Doug had with Jane. If it continues, then Lisa may have one more hoop to jump through to get all parties to act and quit passing the buck due to potential liability.

Lisa, I don't mean to talk to you in the third person. I know dealing with your mom's issues can be traumatic, but you may have to clear the field of reluctant players and turn the onus bank on them via written statements. They will then have been put on formal notice and if they fail to act, there is no doubt where the responsibility lies. I think that will change the dynamics.

Just my thoughts and excuse my frustration. I am angry with Jane and angry that we have to all deal with stupidity on a regular basis. We are all so responsible and determined to learn and do our best, but then we have to deal with the bureaucrats who seem to require the steel toed boot up the butt to get them to move.

Thanks for letting me vent. Cattails
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OK, this Jane person is an educated, grown-up woman, right? With a "professional" level job. What part of "not my problem" is she having trouble understanding, Lisa? 'Cause I'll bet a whole lot of folks from this thread would be very willing (and able) to explain it to her in great detail. I'll volunteer to go first. Just tell me how to contact her. Or, wait, I have a daughter-in-law who teaches English as a Second Language. Maybe we could recruit her for the first round, to be sure the explanation is suitable for people with limited English vocabularies.

What exactly is Jane's problem? So she can't put the drama queen in a cab. What would she do if DQ had no living relatives? This is Jane's JOB for crying out loud.

If I were Jane and the medicine was from a place that doesn't deliver and I felt DQ could not go by herself in a cab, I would send a cab (or other courier service) to pick up the meds and deliver them. Duh. This happens all the time in the business world. But no, she has to drag two people away from their own activities and subject them to terrible stress. If she HAD to involve a relative (and I can't imagine why she would), why not just have the med picked up and dropped off? What on earth was the benefit of sending DQ -- judged too shakey to go by herself -- off with the daughter she abuses?

The more I think about, the madder I get at Jane. She really couldn't figure out how the drama queen could get her breathing medicine without involving you!? And ths woman has some kind of college degree and a responsible job?

But, dear Lisa, this too is Not Your Problem!

I'll bet Doug had more practical solutions in mind. I'm looking forward to the next episode of How the World Turns Around Mother, in which will be revealed the plan to extricate long-suffering daughter (LSD) from Professional's imcompetency.
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Emjo, dougs attitudes very uplifting. He sounded very confident at the cemetery. I was just too drained to discuss it. He left and I stayed a while longer. We will talk tonite. I know he's accomplished something. Lord, the look in his eyes when I walked out of that apartment with her. And when she saw him and Jane, her whole body jerked in shock.
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((((((((Lisa))))))) that jane better get her butt in gear and get a guardian appointed. This is no good for you - your mum is abusive and you should not be asked to walk into that. Glad you have Doug on your side, and he and jane heard it all. Hopefully he can convince jane to move on getting a guardian. Priceless that he knew where you were. I understand about talking to your brother - it is a safe place for you to vent.
Another thought - would your doc write a note to jane that you cannot be involved with your mum's care as she is abusive to you? Jane is just not taking the effect of this on you this seriously enough, IMO.
Hope you have had that cry, and are feeling less tension now.
((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))) and love
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Well girls it's amazing how your day can go to hell. It only been 4 hours since I posted here. I get a call on my cell phone from a number I didn't recognize. Guess who? Miss Jane. Mom told her if she used the office phone and it showed on caller id I wouuldnt answer. So she used her personal phone. The problem? Moms phone would not work and she came down and asked them to call her a cab because she needed to get her breathing medicine. Ok, so what's the problem? She's shaking real bad Lisa, and seems extremely weak. We cannot in good conscience let her leave in a cab. So I told her the only way I would come is if Doug could leave the office and be present, and afterwards she would need to meet with us. So that was fine. Called Doug, and he was only three blocks from there checking on a job. Well he was already there in the office with Jane. They sent me back and he got up and said honey go on up to tell her your here. So I did and omg she was in a rage. Immediately started screaming at me. I'm not even going to go into what she said to me. After 751 post, you know the drill. So I told her what worked before. Shut your foul mouth or I will walk out. She shut up, opened the door and Doug and Jane were standing in the hall. Heard every word. Doug said do you want me to take over. Nope. I got it. He knew what was going to happen and made sure Jane witnessed it. So she's quiet until we are 3 blocks from drug store. I ignored her she went into pharmacy. And as usual I needed to cry but I didn't. I called my mil. She stayed on the phone with me till she came out. She gets to the car and a woman who is her pt from nursing walks up. There goes the mouth. People everywhere. So I called Doug. We both agreed. Get her in the car and dump her ass back home. He was still with Jane. Don't come in just leave. So I did. Doug had been going over janes options. Mam, you will deal with her from now on, or you need to get busy having a guardian appointed by the county like my wife has asked you to do. So like I have done since the day I got my drivers liscense I head to the cemetery to johnnys grave. All of these years when things would just get unbearable I would visit Johnny. It sounds odd, I know. But it just gives me comfort. While sitting there talking out loud to my brother, telling him the latest and crying, Doug calls. Are you almost home. I'll be there in a minute, why? It's not nice to lie to the one who loves you most. Turn around. Hahaha..breath..hahaha, there he is leaning up against his truck. So he came over and we weeded around his headstone and said , johnny, your momma is one crazy ass woman. It's a little spooky how well he knows me. So now I AM home feeling much better. He will go over everything tonite bout his little get together with Jane. He said I promise it's gonna get better real soon. Sigh....
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((((((hugs)))))) Lisa -another rocky road ahead. It seems that life keeps handing us one challenge after another. Your mil sounds like a very string and determined woman - notr the easier to deal with over a health issue which will likely involve her loising control. I think keeping notes about the irregular behaviour is important, and looking around for someone who can do an assessment. The aging people may have some suggestions, or social workers, as how to best deal with her -maybe a visit in her own home, at an appropriate time. I know, eventually you and the other sils will figure it out. I am not sure how well I would deal with being in the condition she is - my heart goes out to all of you. ((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
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Lisa, when you feel like caring for someone is an honor, it becomes much less difficult. We are with you all the way! Rebecca
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Lisa I am so sorry that you have to go through all of this after what you have been through the past two years-that is such a cruel disease it is too bad when Pres. Ragean had it his wife did not get more involved in the cause-instead of shielding him from everyone that would have been a teachable occassion.
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Thanks bw, but I don't think she would appreciate those words yet. Last month my sil and I met at the house ready to do battle about going to another dr. Girl, we left there with our tail between our legs. As for letting fil tell her what to do? That man better have his running shoes on. They will be married 56 years this next feb 14th. she has ALWAYS wore the pants in the family. That man has never paid a bill in his life. She handled everything. We were so proud of him when he calmed her fears when she was making double pymts on her bills. That's the first time I can remember where he was scared that maybe we girls knew what we were talking about. I know he every now and then gently approaches the subject. And so far he heads to the green house or the garage. When we had a complete physical done for her she was referred to a lung specialist. Well they ordered oxygen and had a unit sent to her home. Wow, what a day. She made fil load that in the truck and send take it straight back. She's been a smoker her whole life. We were hoping this would show if her confusion was due to lack of oxygen. Bless his heart. I guess we are bad. But the humor in his telling the story had us cracking up. what a journey this is already turning into.
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Oops...those last 4 sentences that you wrote. I think she would love to hear that. On your next visit, get her a very pretty card, and write those words to her.
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Hi Lisa, I'm sorry about your mil. I too understand hers and doug's fears which leads to their denial. Like you, I went online and researched as much as I could on Alz. You can always start a new thread on asking how other caregivers were able to get around and taking the parent to the doctor. I can't give you much advice on that. Even with mom having Alz, she still listened to dad. She forgot us kids but she always called him. He was able to control her. One word of caution, though. My mom was a tomboy, a fighter. She got angry so fast. But, this is something she did that I have not seen on this website. Twice, she had tried to kill herself. So, please, advice all to be attentive to mil. If she saw what happened with granny, and when she finally admits she has Alz, she may decide to end her life so that she would not be a burden to you all - for the years to come. Please tell her repeatedly how much you love her. You know those 4 sentences you wrote? When you think she needs to hear those words, I would tell it to her. She needs to know this or she will do the "noble" thing.
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Thanks Kim. We really do understand her fear. Granny (fil mother) passed 10 years ago. She had ALZ for years. There were 11 kids and when it progressed each child took her for 1 month. Then she started escaping in the middle of the night determined she was going home to the farm. Luckily everyone knows everyone and they would see her out walking most times in her gown and would call one of the sisters. It was so bad they made the decision for the nursing home. We watched her just wither away to nothing for years. It was brutal. I don't think any of us anticipated she would hang on for so many years. I think granny is my mil first and only experience with ALZ. She told us for years that if that ever happened to her we better never put a feeding tube in her, to let her go. So yes we understand her fear. He'll, we are scared just thinking she may have it. And Doug? In complete denial. He's just shut his mind to the possibility. So myself and my 2 sil's are the ones going pro active. If this is in fact ALZ I will be with the family every step of the way. We will do everything possible to care for her until the time comes, like granny, that it's just not possible. She has mothered me and just loved me for the past 30 years. How could I do any less? It will be an honor to care for her.
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Lisa, Did MiL doc do a formal eval such as a MiniMentalStatusExam?I did my moms when I felt her doc was not recognizing symptoms, and sent him a note with scores, and my concerns. He may have asked your mom if she;s had any trouble w. memory, and she probably said "oh no" (hehe, guess she forgot she got lost and missed her appointment! Docs that can help: Psychiatric Nurse Practioners w Geriatric Certification and Psychiatrists w/interest in Geriatrics, Gerontologists, Nuerologists. Sorry the appointment did not go as you had hoped it would. Keep trying. My mom was extremely resistant and really more in denial than fearful. Often people really have no awareness of the symptoms. My mom eventually did recognize problems and we talk about it, fear, disapointment, all of it. Will Doug's mom exercise and take omega 3's; maybe you all could ask her to help you do the same, together, to help reduce your risk. If not med's. right now, heathy diet and regular exercise for body and brain are the best prevention, and helpful to slow progression, redupreventive. Don't give up. And your mom, she;s probably mad she couldn't pull your chain, so now she can pout and stew a while and come up with a big ol mess of a problem: be ready, see it as her way to hook you back in! Your doin great!
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Thanks cat. I'll ask Jeanne. But short of tricking her I just don't know how we'll get her to go. Her doctor has her convinced that she's fine. She just won't pay attention to the people who know her best. My mil is a very strong woman. And we know that there is a certain amount of memory loss that is normal with aging. But this is far beyond this. They had their roof put on the house this week from the storm damage and it has caused her so much anxiety. My father in law is the only one who she has opened up to about her fears. He's 84, in good health. So we are thinking this time he'll need to take the reins to get her there and we will be beside them the whole way. My sil from Alabama came in and took her last time. She wouldn't talk to her for a while. Her anger is the worse. It's so out of character for her. But one way or another we'll get it accomplished.
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Lisa: Ask your mom's doc for a referral to a geriatric specialist or just go without a referral. Talk to Jeannegibbs about the type of doctor(s) you should see and what tests should be given. I agree that your MIL is afraid. I would be too. Let her know that everyone is on her side and want to keep her safe and healthy. I'm so very sorry that this is happening to her.

I'm glad your mom has not called today. Maybe she is catching on.

Hugs, Cattails
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I'm sorry to hear about your MIL Lisa. She's lucky to have you. Now you have someone who deserves your caregiving.
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Oh, aunt rae! She's fine with everything. She told me don't you worry about me. I've been dealing with your moms crap longer than you've been alive. My friends at church are the same friends your uncle Joey and I have had since we joined. And that's been 50 years. When or if the time comes that daughter approaches her, shell give her whatfor. Then she reminded me of our conversation. She's a survivor too. Aunt rae has wanted a pool for over 40 years and uncle Joe always stopped her. Well she is 73 and guess what? She bought a pool!!! The largest above ground you can buy. It's 30 by 15. she said she plans on us spending time together the rest of the summer. We've planned her pool party 2 weeks from yesterday. I can't wait.
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Judy: mom apparently opted out of rehab. Think she realized there wasn't anyone to bring her clothes, pick them up each week and wash, etc. I haven't gotten one call here at the house today. It's pure bliss. So I'm guessing the hospital arranged her transport home. And cat: yes we think mil has first stages of ALZ. Myself and both sil's have gotten her to her dr. Her dr seems to think she does not have it. Even my fil is convinced she has it. She is very angry at anyone that mentions going to a dr who specializes in ALZ. I know her anger is fear, because she loves her family. There's been a couple instances in the last 6 weeks that she's left the house to go to her hair appt and returned hours later and never made it there. We think she was confused and went shopping. Her appt has been the same day and time always. Longer than I've been married to Doug. I took her to lunch a few weeks ago and she told me the same storie 5 times. And each time she was telling me like it was the first time. We are so upset with her GP. We are reading everything we can get our hands on. I've been on the main ALZ website. I feel she's entering into stage 2 if not already there. She called crying one day. Her account was overdrawn 1000.00. She paid her homeowner ins twice. She knows something is happening. But her GP has screwed this up so badly we fear we will have to force her. Because she just will not cooperate. I've read there are drugs out now that can slow the process down. But each day that passes is a loss. Thanks for asking cat.
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Lisa: Congrats on "not my problem". I was wondering how things went with your Aunt Rae on Friday? Also, I noticed in a post you sent to Jeannegibbs that your sweet MIL may be showing signs of ALZ. I was truly sorry to read that and hope you don't mind my asking about it. Take care, Lisa. Hugs, Cattails.
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Thanks so much, Kim.
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Joan, I will keep you in my prayers, and all the other ladies here too.
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Hey.... Lisa... what happened to Mom going to rehab? Did I miss something? Good job at ignoring the phone calls. Woooohoooo!
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Thanks, Lisa, I really appreciate you.
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Of course you'll be in my prayers emjo! And you'll be on the prayer list here in Louisville ky.
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Lisa, I`ll share about time alone later. I need it too - lots more than I used to.
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Actually, it is not so much that it feels great, for me, as that it feels right and even more so - necessary. I am having some insights into the past where I was basically 'set up" to be the gopher, for my mother and my sister, and I can see that now my sister expects it as well as my mother. When my sister has visited my mother in the past 10 years, they had fights I was told by mother that if she and my sis didn't get along, my sister could always come and stay with me. My answer, after the first time, was no. Mother didn't ask me, nor did my sister ask if she could come and stay, but mother told me that if they had a fight, that I was the solution.. No one seemed to care what I thought or felt about it.. Being treated like that for a lifetime, leaves its scars, but we are never too old to learn, and change.for the better, and look after ourselves more and more.
On another note I had a decent visit with the specialist, who was a very nice young woman, and she is changing my meds to something less toxic to my liver - which still seems to be OK, as far as I am concerned, but she needs to check it. She heard me and believed me, and was honest - told me they didn't have all the answers, and there is no "magic bullet", but this was the next step. I would appreciate prayers that the new drug works, as I may have to be on it a long time (I hesistate to say a lifetime as I believe that I will be healed) and, of course, that, eventually, we get rid of this infection.Thanks in advance.

You gals all ROCK!!!
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You are all so right! It does feel good to know it's not my problem! Rockin it Lisa and Joan!!! Enjoy that time alone Lisa :))
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Yea emjo!!! Dosen't it feel great???? I really think we're getting good at this. What a great day. No authorities banging on my door because I said no, Jen and Chris finishing up the spaghetti dinner they made us, THEN! They are all going to set trout lines and I have the house to myself the rest of the evening. They are begging me to go, because they feel bad leaving me alone. I wish I could make them understand alone is GOOD. For two years that's never been an option for me. I've never felt the need for alone time like this. Even when the girls were small Doug and I never thought much about it. He'll, I've already got their cooler packed. Yeehaaaaa!!!!
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