I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
"All I can say of MIL is " what a controlling b**ch!"
SHE won't allow it?
YOU don't allow her to run your life this way.
She is NOT more important than your 4 yo granddaughter, your daughter or the twins.
We all need to adjust to changes as we age. She's not adjusting; she's being an inflexible, demanding harridan."
Her answer yesterday when told no ... safety is paramount and we love you and want you to be safe and cared for.
MIL: Then don't love me.
Her drama ... it worked all her life. I can't imagine how she got that way having grown up dirt poor, Depression Era. I don't suppose in her youth .. her theatrics made a hill of a difference. Abusive alcoholic dad and no dollars .. or time to throw behind what she wants and doesn't want.
Maybe as an adult she married someone so absolutely a push over and passive that she developed a taste for her champagne wishes and cavier dreams and her husband was absolutely passive enough ... what she wants ... she gets ... braces and face lifts in her 60's.
Her theatrics worked. Even on 2 of her 3 offspring.
Until now ...
I like Surprise's suggestion. I don't know what it is either about them trusting the men more than the women, but in my mom's family it was like that too. Women get the work, and men get the respect. Smh.
Did Medicaid Betty give you a list of places to check out for Medicaid-funded ALs? Was yesterday's place on it?
BlackHole made a VERY good point when noting that MIL (and not H and not SIL) must be the one to sign any and all paperwork until the POA is finalized. Remember, he/she who signs without POA becomes responsible!
I'm curious: She has been chauffeured like a queen everywhere she wanted/needed to go for the last 15 years. Not even a cab was OK for HRH.
How does she expect to leave the rehab place and go back to her house? She doesn't have the cognitive skills to work through getting a "ride"...and then what? She'd be met at the door by B who'd call SIL and wowza--can you imagine that?
Nope, she's going to the best fit for her life now. The absolutely unbelievable selfishness she has displayed through all of this has been astounding to all of us. You are her BFF if you agree with her, but cross her and she'd lief as shoot you in the head than agree with YOUR choice/decision.
"So don't love me". OK, have it your way. OMgosh, what a witch!
Dorker, somehow, everyday in the world people are going through what you're going through, Depressing, you betcha. But in the "end" it will be fine. The financials will get worked out, the POA may really never be an issue--because I think she is going to be declared incompetent and the court will assign a POA.
Her house--well, some of the things she loves so much can be used to furnish a small apartment, and that should be comforting. (She won't see it that way, of course, but it will help with the transition).
She's going to be VERY angry no matter what you do. Let her be angry. She's like a toddler. She wants what she wants and that's that! Doesn't have the capacity for compassion or awareness.
AND YEAH for DH for finally really taking a stand. He can hopefully keep doing that.
You're moving along--seems so slow to you, but to us watching it--it's really coming together.
And of course, there WILL be hospital stays for whatever after she's moved, that won't change, but it won't be YOU hauling her there.
As for the house--we cleaned out Grandmother's condo when she was in hospice care. It was very bittersweet as she was still alive and making decisions about what she wanted so and so to have....but by the time she passed, we had distributed everything.
You're doing great, Dorker, able to step in and help and not have the whole burden of MIL's world at YOUR feet only. Your takeaway can be that you pretty much propped her up for 15+ years and did so with unflagging energy and dignity.
Sad thing is, MIL won't remember any of that. Ah well--doesn't mean it didn't happen.
{{Hugs}}
Think about replacing all of her underwear with depends, and get that discussion off of the table too. By preparing these simple steps, you would be that furthur along in her not being able to complain that she cannot get dreesed (make them one size larger and roomier and for sake of ease), or that it is too difficult for her get dressed.
If there are any talks at all with her, keep talking it up that she will have some of her favorite belongings in her new room, to make her feel at home, and remember, one bite at a time.
At present, we went this morning DH and myself ... SIl met us there. She'd seen the site .. DH and myself had not. The "family owned" .. "we're all family here" site .. the one Betty Medicaid recommended as her father's final spot.
Impression there .. while they do .. profess to care for those whose needs increase .. and I'm sure they do exactly that .. and their staff there warm and friendly and the residents seem to like the staff and greet them as they walk by, and vice versa .. and the place is in fact, clean .. smells good, .. seems uncluttered and not chaotic ..
All good things. Very much so .. I wouldn't be sold that isn't the spot for MIL.
EXCEPT .. her offspring .. mostly her daughter ....
The problem with the site there .. the slumpers .. and there are a lot ..
Remember, .. their claim to fame there is that they try not to move the resident when the need increases .. and to keep the resident there, to meet the needs as they increase .. "we're a family here".
I'm presuming some of those slumpers viewed .. maybe didn't arrive there that way .. but have grown more frail and .. well ... slumper'd .. in their stay there .. would be my guess.
When I say slumpers .. I'm referring to folks .. some asleep .. mouths gaping open .. some in stages of looking as though they aren't quite sure where they are, or who they are .. slumped over in wheelchairs sitting around ..
Actually most that we saw there, . that was their state of being ..
A few on walkers .. and that's about it.
I'm sure they are as attentive and loving .. as it would appear they are to those residents . and that is astoundingly wonderful ..
The downside to that is this. MIL (who forever doesn't view herself as "those people are old and out of it") .. in fact is not a slumper ..
She could be, any day .. that's a fact ..
Does one want to put her there amongst the slumpers .. with the knowledge that one day when her day comes to wear the slumper cap .. that she too will not have to move to another setting and still continue on with the same staff and support . and care .. is that what one wants to do.
The effect (if any) on the person who isn't at that stage .. but finds that what they are living amongst .. one has to ponder if that's the best setting.
And yes .. Betty Medicaid did give us the name of this place .. as well as 2 sites to visit for the short-stay .. and the slumpers are plenty at both the short stays . but that's as it has to be, no way around it ..
But .. then you have the pristine .. bright/cheery .. other place .. and the folks you observe there .. there were a few mobile wheelchairers .. but mostly .. folks up and about on their walkers, dressed .. makeup on, etc etc. No slumpers at that place.
The do have an IL there . but that's not the site we were toured through . we were in fact, toured thru . what is their AL.
I can't quite put my finger on it . and didn't ask specifically .. "how do you call yourself an AL .. if you don't assist with dressing folks".
(They will . in times of weakness from being ill, that kinda thing . or if a person is nursing back from a fall .. but it's not routine there, to assist with dressing .. as opposed to family owned site . they are assisted if it's needed). The fancy place .. they do offer oversight with showering .. as does the family owned place ..
DH has not seen the fancy pants site (It's not all that fancy it's just a brighter cheerier .. and much more open .. space than is the family owned spot).
<<Incidentally, DH .. had tears in his eyes .. walking around the family owned place with all the slumpers in sight .. BUT .. he also likes it's location .. 5 mins from us .. vs the fancy pants site . about 20 mins from us>>>
We like the fact that the services .. the attention one receives .. at the family owned (slumpers a plenty) site .. if the person needs more in the way of
In our case, one POA was prepared for each parent listing both our names. It specified that we had the right to act individually or jointly. The one document covered both financial and medical decisions.
If the person needs more in the way of personal attention .. as to their needs . it's definitely available at family owned site .. and not at threat of .. "you need a higher level of care than this site can provide, we're referring you out"
But one's peers in that setting .. will be the slumpers in various stages of obvious dementia ..
I really only saw maybe 1 or 2 women in the family owned site that appeared to be with it .. mostly .. what I saw was "not with it".
And so .. the thinking and weighing of all this .. and my .. walking that razor's edge of just being a voice in the thing .. but not being a decision maker .
SIL . leans very heavily towards fancy pants place ..
Why?
Because she will be around folks who are up and moving around, dressed for the day . obviously not so far gone . and able to converse with .. if she'll do so . and if .. "IF" she can rise to the level of expectation at fancy pants place .. then .. she won't have to be surrounded by slumpers before her day comes to be on of the slumpers.
My counter to that: "But ... if she can't .. if she is unable/unwilling to do what is expected of her there .. prevent accidents by being proactive in wearing Depends .. and changing them to underpants . and/or talking to staff about help if needed in times of the above .. and accepting help .. if she's unable to dress herself daily . and arrive at the dining room .. at least some of the meals per day .. you know where that leads . this was explained .. clearly . be the director we talked to there. They will be counseled .. and ultimately .. evicted to a higher level of care somewhere else .. and so .. do you want to set her up for that .. she'll be relegated to the land of slumpers anyway . .if she can't .. if she's unable/unwilling to rise to the expectation ..
SIL's counter to the above: "I know . it's really a tough decision one that has to be thought out . for sure .. but I just have to think .. ya know . she hasn't been dressing daily for a couple of years and that's because she's really had no where to go . she's been stuck here . in this house . and she doesn't get out and about . has no reason . to go anywhere .. and so she stays in PJ's all day . .and ya know . that breeds more weakness .. not being active at all .. and we all know that .. and so . .maybe if she knows . .. your next stop if you can't do this .. is to the land of slumpers . and .. her fate is then in HER HANDS .. rather than us just assuming she can't do it . or won't do it .. and sticking her amongst the slumpers .. without even trying .. IF she can do it .. then good . .she gets to stay there .. if she can't .. won't .. then it's up to her .. and she can't then say the whole "I'm just a victim here" .. yea .. well you're a victim to your own mind and willingness, and abilities .. of your aging frail body . but not to what others are imposing on you .. you were given the opportunity to rise to the level of what is expected there and not able to do it .. so you will have to be in a setting . that yes has some slumpers . with your limited resources .. we don't get to choose . "oh we want a site for folks precisely like her, . mobile and *can* engage if they want .. not that over there with the slumpers .. we don't get that choice with her limited resources .. so she ends up then .. w/the slumpers .. but it was her that decided her own fate . be that unwilling/unable .. whatever ..
My counter: "will she? She doesn't engage with "those old people" .. will she .. ???....
SIL: "I don't know . but I feel like we have to at least give her the opportunity and set her fate in her own hands .. as to how she rises or doesn't . to what the expectation is there".
Me: "Ultimately it's yall's decision . I'm just weighing in on what I see as the impediments to that .. I hear ya loud and clear on the family owned site and placing her with a bunch of slumpers as her peers .. the good side of that .. is that when her
Many people think their parents don’t fit with the slumpers. Or at least that they are in much better condition than the slumpers. We went through that as well. However, when we really took a good look at how my in-laws spent their time, we saw that there was, indeed, a whole lot of sleeping/dozing going on. We realized that we didn’t view them that way because WE had to use their naps to actually get things done, so we would let them be and do other things in the house. Had we been just sitting with them all day, we would have noticed just how much time was being spent in the dozing state, lol. Especially, after we would get them dressed or they would eat or other things that just take energy out of an old body.
And when people visited, etc., they were more engaged.
We were basing our opinions off of the “off” times and the past, not the reality of the in-laws normal day to day. We needed a paradigm shift...
Obviously, MIL is not wheelchair bound yet. But I would love to be a fly on the wall in that rehab to see how much slumping she is doing herself when there is nothing to rile her up or keep her entertained.
I have been tossing this around in my head. I might err on the side of facility that is good with propping and continuing care, even with the slumpers ratio. If she is flying through life after she gets there, can do all ADLs herself, is walking strong, and joining in all possible activities and still doesn’t have enough to do, then move her to the nonAL-AL, lol.
Editing to add...
This way, she really does have her own fate in her hands. And you guys aren’t stuck moving her again if she can’t handle the nonAL-AL. I honestly think there is a snowball’s chance that she would “out activity” the family place. But if she does, then yay for all and at least if you have to do the work to move her again, it will be because of a positive development instead of a negative one.
The whole inactivity thing is going to be an issue at either place, because it is HER, her cognitive deficits, her choices, her negative attitude that drives that bus. The facility is just the setting.
When her day comes that she's the slumper . .she won't have to be moved. We know for certain .. slumpers are shuffled on outta there, as to fancy pants site ..
So . it's up to you guys to weigh out . what you think and the direction you want . just some things to think about ..
SIL: I know . and I want DH to go see Fancy Pants site if he can . at some point too .. I'd like him to see the opposing sites and the level of functionality and see what his thoughts are
Me: "FWIW .. I shared with him last night . the two opposing sites . and the expectations thereof . .and his thoughts . just upon hearing what I had to say .. "She's gonna tell them to go pound sand sideways . telling her that she has to dress daily . telling her what to do . she's not gonna put up with that" Okay DH . well just so ya know . I mean how this works is . you find an AL .. where there are functional folk . doing as expected .. she's no different . she doesn't get to be the odd man out and do as she pleases . there . .she is expected to do X, Y and Z .. and if she can't . won't that then mandates she go to a site where the care is more intense . to help her with the things she can't/won't do .. and unfortunately .. in those sites are any number of folks debilitated by their frailty .. slumping . and so .. if she can't .. won't . then the next stop is the land of the slumpees.
So .. just kinda walking that razor's edge . of being a voice in it all . but staying out of what their ultimate decision is.
As to the MIL . I don't know . SIL takes the slightest bit of positive and builds on it .. I suppose a good trait to have rather than being an negative nancy.
Her phone call with her mom this morning . didn't go well . poor poor .. victim . I'm just the victim here . you guys aren't even bringing me into the loop . you're all out there making decisions on my behalf not even bringing me into the fold on it . and I don't even know if my house is even still in tact .. are people hauling stuff out as we speak .. and .. no don't bring my doggie up here today .. if I'm going to have to part with him .. and everything else . just . I don't even want to see him anymore .. it hurts too much ..
SIL countering: No mother, there's not a stick of furniture that has even been moved since you left here . and your doggie . is not gonna be gone tomorrow . . and .. bringing you into the fold . we're telling you as much as we know, we're in uncharted waters here ourselves . we're trying to figure out way thru all this ourselves .. and .. we are telling you .. I told you yesterday about the site we visited . and some of that .. but you haven't wanted to hear it . insisting you're going home ..
Said her mother then turned the corner (SIL aware the corners will be turned back and forth) . that her mother then saying, "Well after talking to your brother last night (DH's visit) .. I have come to the conclusion here that I will just have to go along with whatever you guys want me to do . whatever the h377 it is you guys want. that's what I'll do
So .. SIL takes that and runs with it . that her mom is now dialed in and accepting it . but also realizes . that will ebb and flow some going forward. But building on it, . that her mom is accepting of it ..
I don't buy that .. I think there's still going to be a lot of drama to come . a LOT.
A great example .. SIL talking of her mom staying in PJ's all the time ..
SIL: "I mean some of her pj's look like street clothes .. she wears nice Victoria Secret PJ bottoms and tops (think flanel pj's . tops and bottoms . from Victoria Secret .. plaid .. bunnies on them, .. so on) .. some of her PJ's . they look like street clothes .. ".
Me countering that: "the point isn't what her PJ's are . they aren't going to go down the slippery slope of telling her she's okay cuz her pj's are acceptable and not too revealing .. and yet resident #33 .. comes out wearing a negligee . and now they have to send her back to dress .. doesn't work that way .. it applies to all .. the having to get dressed . and the point there is .. one needs the activity of engaging daily .and part of that is being dressed and up and functional".
SIL needs a paradigm shift in the realization that all her enabling and all her excuses and all her minimizing .. doesn't matter one hill of beans in these places .. their rules are their rules .. and you either do as we expect . or you move along to where you can do as you expect . and live among those who don't .. and that includes pj's all day if that's what you want .. and that's because .. they are incapable . .. as your mom obviously is (if we get to that road in her failure to do so).
”If you don’t want me to be POA, that is fine. However, I will do no caregiving without it. None. If you are more comfortable with someone else doing it, and have someone in mind who is willing, have at it. You won’t be hurting my feelings. We’ll just go back to me being a pleasant visitor now and then. It’s all good.
But, I know what this road looks like, and I am not going to accept all of the responsibility with none of the authority to get things done. You let me know what you want to do.”
Just some language that DH and SIL might want to start prepping.
That's her answer, that's what she'd say.
The water hits the wheel in the necessity of her offspring . refusal to do that, as it should be. They aren't gonna just go away and leave her be . that's not gonna be the path in all this ..
They are not gonna say to her, "ok you don't sign the POA .. fine by me, but I'm no longer gonna be involved on iota in c'giving".
She'd answer that .. "that's fine, I'll be just fine right by myself . .me and my little doggie".
And they'd have to be willing to let her. . They aren't ..
Regression alert! Dorker, be on your guard.
SIL is gearing up to sweet-talk MIL into the facility with the best window-dressing and the worst fit for MIL’s needs.
Then fly-away-birdie..... back to Illinois.
When the facility can longer meet MIL’s needs, who’s a mere 20 minutes away? Dorker & DH.
The facility will call the Dorker household with the bad news. They’ll call in Dorker & DH for the woeful meeting. They’ll task Dorker & DH with finding MIL a new facility within XX weeks (or days).
Dorker & DH will be defaulted into being the bad guys who break the news to MIL and arrange MIL’s move to Slumperville.
SIL will be firmly ensconced in Illinois, feeling back to normal with her smug victory in her “War On Sad.”
SIL will play good cop with MIL by placating her on the phone.
SIL will use that same mouth (and texting finger) to make a hard thing harder for Dorker and DH. What-if-ing. Undermining. “But Mom wants...”
MIL will perceive SIL as her angel from afar.
MIL will direct the worst of her bile at Dorker and DH.
I say this: Dorker, play every imaginable angle to get POA assigned to SIL (primary) and someone other than Dorker/DH as back-up POA.
Then - if MIL’s care facility mistakenly calls Dorker or DH to discuss eviction, Dorker & DH have a viable reason to cut the call short and refuse to get involved.
SIL would love to leave town with MIL feeling flattered by her “only daughter who sacrificed so much” (for half a f***ing year). And leave Dorker & DH as the toadies who will be tasked with enforcing ugly realities.
Dorker, don your armor. DH too.
The part SIL seems to be missing is that MIL staying in PJs has nothing to do with whether she has someplace to go that day. You saw yourself and I am sure SIL has too that, even when she DID have somewhere to be, y’all had to prod her like a two-year-old. That isn’t normal and is more characteristic of what SIL sees as the slumping population than the fancy population.
Not your responsibility, but SIL really needs to get a grip on what is a reasonable expectation of a facility. We had to educate and re-educate family members on the fact that this isn’t just about MIL or FIL. We still do, as a matter of fact. This is a community and yes, your person will have to wait for things. Things may not get done as timely as they would if we were still KILLING ourselves in service to their old age. So what?! The world will not fall down around them if they can’t move a chair exactly when they want to. Things will get lost or misplaced. Kindness, health, and safety... those are the important pieces.
Even now, MIL is sometimes wearing someone else’s clothes and vice versa (MC). Not a hill to die on, in my view. We just try to get things back in order with a laugh and let it go.
All of those people that SIL sees as slumpers sitting by the nurse’s station get more than just the eyeball of the staff. They also get the benefit of social interaction with ALL of the families that come in. You get to know people and care about them. They have so much more love and friendship and caring from all of the people coming through the facility than they would have at home. And they don’t have to do anything, just absorb it.
SIL and DH have to stop looking at this through their youngish, healthy minds. When you do that, a home is profoundly sad. If I had to go, right at this moment, I would feel like I was going to h3ll. But, if my head was fuzzy and I kept messing things up and I was scared and it took me half the morning to put clothes on, my actual experience there would be different.
Again, paradigm shift. She has help with ADLs so she can use her limited energy on things that are more interesting/fun/meaningful. There are people around, a built-in community... interact or doze off, whichever you like. Or just listen in on the conversations of others and feel like you are part of something, even if your brain is foggy and you can’t get around much and you don’t have a great deal to day. If she is scared and ill, there are many people around who know EXACTLY what to do, because they have been around the block a time or two.
Don’t get me wrong, most facilities aren’t heavenly staffed with only lovely people who spread sunshine and cheer. But, almost anything is better than what MIL is doing now. And the fact that the SW had her father there is important. That one on one experience is useful to the decision-making process and shouldn’t be overlooked.
I am dealing with another placement right now for the very difficult, yet young, relative I mentioned earlier, so this is all fresh and dump ready, lol. It stinks to be the bad guy. Truly does.
Hopefully, they will at least decide to remain united in EVERYTHING. MIL cannot be allowed to triangulate here.
I am so so glad you are sitting on the outskirts of this. Good luck, chickie.
I am now inspired to go buy a pair of bunny pajamas, lol.
The family owned place sounds nurturing but MIL is likely to find objections. I realize you have to consider available space and possible acceptance of Medicaid in the future. It just seems that Florida might have more to offer.
My mother is not incontinent regularly but she might have an accident. Therefore she wears the incontinent briefs all the time to avoid that. She is not very mobile and the thought of her changing to regular underwear and changing back would prove difficult. I know she would change the brief if it is wet but if not why bother.
For someone who is used to staying in pajamas most of the time it seems easier to stick with the incontinent briefs thus avoiding all that is involved if there is an accident. There hopefully would be less laundry involved.
"Ya know . if your mom was "capable" of engaging or cared to .. and/or .. getting dressed to have somewhere to go for a day .. that opportunity has been at her fingertips all along . and yes indeed even as she grew more frail.
There are senior buses you're aware SIL .. I've told you . and they are equipped with ADL accommodations to suit the passenger who struggles .. and they cart folks all day long .. every day .. to senior activities ..
She chose not to ride a bus . that's beneath her .. she chose . not to hang out with "those old people".
What makes you think that placing her in fancy pants site . is gonna change all that?
REALLY?
Just because she now is gonna have some epiphany that the next stop is a nursing home . complete with slumpers as her daily company .. that alone will be motivator enough . in your mind . that she'll miraculously find it within herself to yes .. dress daily . and indeed .. go engage with those "old people".
Mmm kay!
Not seeing it.
She has had the opportunity if she cared . .when well . there are programs . and modes of transport to get there. She hasn't cared to do so .. and ever .. not ever.
But now at 89 yo . staring down the barrel of a life with slumpers . she's gonna suddenly find it in herself to go make her way to the engaging of "old people" and fully dressed.
Don't think so ...
But .. I try to stay on the periphery of what should be their decisions.
MIL - we found a lovely place with lots of activities you can participate in, but you have to dress yourself every single morning and make your way down to the dining room to eat every meal there. (by 8 AM? maybe) That is their rule. You will be forced to do that without help. Do you feel you can do that?
I am wondering how far a distance MIL can walk now? Walking around her home with a walker, back and forth to the bathroom and bed isn't the same as walking around the fancy facility with its long halls.
In my opinion, she will absolutely hate the idea of the place and social activities. That is SIL's and DH's wishful thinking of how an elder should be. Active, vibrant, happily participating. We would all like to see that. In my mom's case - never happened and never would, even if she was placed in the Ritz.
I found it really rather disgusting that my mom, too, had that same reaction to bringing her little dog in to visit. What is with that??? Was all that concern about doggie-love just a put-on all along? I offered so many times to bring Buster in for visits, and mom totally refused. (my DH and I had Buster.) At one point, mom even said that I can give Buster away if I want. (quite casually) Didn't even seem to bother her! (We kept him. Nice little guy and we love him now.) It almost seemed like when something or someone was no longer of service to her, they just became non-existent. Sad thing with narcs. Does MIL ask how her dog is at all?
It doesn't always work. And when it doesn't, it's NOT anyone's fault. It's just the imprecision of this work.
Best of luck, Dorker. You can only do so much and in the end, you have no sayso. My dear DEAR SIL often had the most optimistic assessment of my mom; my brother and I actually knew her better. But hearing all sides was always good.
But since we know SIL will never agree, just don't comment on her mistake and know that DH will have to move her to the slumper home, *after* SIL leaves town. You could even mention that to him at home.
That SW had her mom there at the slumper family home means the world. When I found out mthr's hospice nurses had their dads in her same MC, I knew we were in the right place.
SIL and DH need to get ready. It is going to get ugly. I've been through this with 2 old folks (aunts). It is not pretty. They will shock you with some of the things that come out of their mouths!
MIL had 15+ years to do nothing but lounge about in her pjs. The idea of some soft tracksuits is a great one! Also, there is something about washing and doing your hair and even applying a little makeup that goes a long ways to helping you feel better. MIL can pout and have her little tantrums in her own room if she so chooses. DH and MIL have GOT to be on the exact same page as they discuss this with her. And they will, over and over and over.
I am not "comfortable" in NH's. They have bad memories for me--I guess some aging relative was in one and I was dragged along for visits. Even as a small child, they were unbearably sad. We have one in our neighborhood, which has a MC unit. This place is spotless and visitors are welcome always. One poor soul ( and they were so bad off I don't whether this was a man or woman) was parked in a recliner outside her bedroom door. Huge, swollen legs propped up and draining tons of serous fluid onto layer upon layer of Chux& towels. She/he was completely unaware of where they were. But every resident who walked past this person gave him/her a loving pat or squeeze of the hand. They were out in the hall for the 'perceived socialization'. I was humbled by this sight.
Let SIL And DH make this choice. You support them, but keep reminding SIL you are NOT stepping back in to 24/7 care. That's what this move is all about.
Somebody may have to confiscate MIL's phone if she can't get over the calling all the time. I'm lucky,my mother doesn't know how to use her phone, so I am off the hook!
I think MIL just has to have that last parting shot. Just, y'know, twist the knife.
The distance from what would be MIL's unit in the fancy pants place, to the dining area, could vary hugely. Long long long corridor .. and if she ended up at the end of that long corridor .. she'd have quite a hike .. and there are a few stopping off points one can sit and rest .. and she'd need em . .it's that long.
One has no way of knowing if she'd pull the lucky card and get one of the units closer to the dining area .. on this end of that long corridor . but ya gotta bet she wouldn't .. and base your decisions on that.
I am not sold at all, that the fancy pants place is the setting for her .. not at all. But SIL seemingly is . .and it's their decision not mine. I did tell DH .. "just know . your sister seems really sold on the fancy pants place .. and your mom is gonna HAVE TO dress daily and with little help as to her poor time management abilities and no help dressing . and if she doesn't .. she'll get bounced outta there . so you'll be moving her".
Told him. That's all I can do.
SIL just thinks (and she's right, knowing her mom's makeup and how she is) . she just thinks putting her in the family run site .. yes .. .you can tell the staff interact with the folks there .. and you can tell it's a caring place. BUT ................. BIG BIG BUT ...............the people they are interacting with are in various stages of OUT OF IT .. mostly. Lots of them, most of them. MIL is not .. "out of it" as in what is viewed in these folks.
In the end, . will she choose to interact, even in fancy pants site .. who the h377 knows .. she better .. !!.. or it's a one-way ticket outta there.
Who is she gonna interact with in the family run site . of the various stages of folks that are out of it .. there were only a couple that I saw .. that were really pretty functional . .the rest were all sprawled out in recliners, wheelchairs .. etc.
SIL thinks that family run setting . where the folks are mostly out of it . is gonna be so depressing to her . that it will be detrimental to her own well being.
As I said to her: But .. in the end . her own well being is going to deteriorate anyway .. that's a fact .. she's almost 90 yo . and already in poor health .. and failing to interact a lot .. so .. in that setting . when she begins to falter .. and not be able to interact and function . she won't be required to move . they hang on to their residents there and continue trying to serve them .. as opposed to bouncing them outta there ..
SIL: But I don't want to push her into that sooner than it has to be . .and her sitting amongst people who are mostly out of it . .would do that . she'd be . she'd be depressed and lack any initiative to do any damn thing anyway.
Ooookay .. not my decision.
As to whether there are other sites . surely there have to be some.
Not any that accept Medicaid . coupled with her small amount of SS that she receives ..
There are loads of elderly care places .. but a lot of them don't take Medicaid at all ............... and those that do .. .the price can still be too high for what she will have. We could all kick in . for the rest of her life I guess .. a few hundred each month .. if that's what it took .. to supplement any shortfall . but .. we're not talking a discrepancy of 100's .. we're talking a discrepancy of the tune of about $1000 to $1500 each month .. she'd fall short.
We are not going to fork over .. can't .. can't afford it .. to the tune of $500 each month upwards to $750 or $1000 each. SIL can't afford that and neither can we.