I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
Barb's suggestion to call 911 is a good one. Especially since you are will not be "on the scene". It took me a while to get that - so in denial I guess. At first, I would wait too long when signs of distress started. And several times I drove Dad to the ER in the middle of the night for something that wasn't completely debilitating, just worrisome. I found out it was much better to just call right away and let the professionals handle it. Then it is on record, they figure out what to do and there is no sitting in the waiting room for hours. (This seems so obvious but sometimes in that moment... ).
Notice how Dad thinks- "K's daughter is shirking her duty." They are entitled to take over the daughter's life. That means he see Dorker the same way.
This week on Dr Laura, there was a caller with a similar story. Crummy bum of a dad who daughter never associated with, but once the wife/mother died, he immediately was really nice to the daughter, as if nothing ever happened. Dr Laura pointed out he was grooming the daughter to be the new object of control and rage by being sweet but needing help. Thus daughter would get used to serving him before he showed his true colors. I hope Dorker gets disentangled before this story repeats itself.
Midkid, I'm so sorry you are facing this dx. We're all cringing with you.
I hadn't thought of this! Dorker's probably seen her father more times recently than she's seen him for a long, long time (since she lived with him as a child?). Could he be grooming her to do caregiving? The big clue is that he seems highly annoyed that K's daughter isn't there doing fulltime caregiving. So why would he expect less from Dorker?
And let's continue to remember his confident proclamation, "Dorker will handle it," as Dorker fell down the Comcast rabbit hole.
Next question:
SIL: "Wonder if brother has had time to go check out if mom's AC is okay at her house" (MIL'S AC has been wonky for years .. and in need of replacement, to the tune of probably $4k to $5k .. and she has just had a repair guy limp it along thru the years .. rather than pay to replace an AC unit that will ultimately be in a house given back to the bank).
Me; "I don't know".
SIL: "I sure hope DD & her husband got by there to take those potted geraniums on MIL's deck outside, .. the poor things will be dried up and dead in all that heat".
Me: "Don't know, maybe you should reach out to her neighbor across the street, K, .. that guy has the greenest green thumb of anyone I know .. have him come rescue them, because quite honestly .. we don't have a minute to spare to worry about dead geraniums and I don't want them, I have the brownest brown thumb".
SIL: "That's true, you've got bigger fish to fry for sure".
I don't know if DH has had any time to purposely walk into MIL's house, to make sure that cool air is still functional (one doesn't want a home to sit with no AC in this heat and humidity .. it will begin to cause mold). I doubt seriously that he's done so. Nor do I intend to prompt him to do so. He is either working, . or as of lately has been doing a LOT of yard work here, (our yard had gone to chit over the winter, weeds and dead areas) .. and has been working to get our pool back up and ship shape for swimming/summer season, . and/or going to see his mom. He's KINDA BUSY.
I did tell DH . and the only thing he said: "I was there a week or so ago, and it was all okay there ... WHEN are we unloading that house?, I'm DONE talking care of that place, WHEN do we turn it back over to the bank and are done with it?.
Me: "Not right now, .. we have to wait til SIL comes back . and we can then begin to sort thru the contents of the home and get rid of things . and ... then ... give it back to the bank.
DH: "When is she coming back?".
Me: "I think end of August or September".
DH: "Why can't we just start on that, . and get it emptied . why does she have to be here?".
Me: "There may be things she wants .. and I don't know that she even knows yet . what it is she wants of the stuff in MIL's house.
(and yes, .. as to RM's .. at some point .. she would be considered having vacated the house for that all important, in the contract, 12 month period .. and so the bank takes it. But as things stand right now, . this all began with MIL back mid February . .and all this ... she's not in her home .. it has all been . and still is . until Medicaid approval whenever that comes .. it's all been hospital stints and Rehab stints . under her health insurance .. so it's not like she couldn't, at least accd'g to medical record . rehab sufficiently to go home .. and so ... even if RM had acess to her med recd's . doubtful ... it could be argued .. at least as far as them wanting the keys to the house .. "oh she is just rehab'ing . she's coming back home". So .. we do have time . it's not like we'll go there tomorrow and the locks are changed, the bank has taken it back.
And yes, Rainmom it does seem like a helluva lot of pressure washing goes on doesn't it. I guess it is the FL humidity .. things get dirty and dank .. and molded in places .. and a nice pressure washing takes care of cleaning it all up.
And yes, . .I worked with dad's yard guy (remember, they each pay their own bills .. and are responsible for whatever it is they're responsible for financially . in his case, it's the yard guy .. and other things). The yard guy due to come, better go slip an envelope under the door mat .. with some cash in it. Dad wrote a check to me, to go to the bank . .and cash it, .. slip some $ in an envelope .. put it under the door mat.
He asked me, to reach out to yard guy . ask if he'd consider pressure washing and if so, what would the fee be. I did that .. the guy quoted a price, .. dad wrote the check to me, .. and I cashed it, put that also in an envelope and under the door mat .. the guy came by on Saturday and as we saw .. (the reason dad put it off) .. it undid K .. the whole thing . the upheaval .. of having water being shot at everything outside, and people out there .. you'd of thought someone was out there taking the siding off the house, or spray painting the cars .. for how much it undid her, it really did.
Their world, .. dad's world . K's .. has been in crises mode for the last several weeks with their various issues. That has waned some. As has my participation in same.
No, our daughters really have no relationship to speak of with my dad. YD (the sweetest of the 3 daughters, the kindest/most caring) . did go by and see my dad, . on a day she'd been .. actually .. just up the road to visit MIL (who she does go see) .. she also swung by and stopped in to visit my dad briefly. That's the only daughter that has come by or called. I don't prompt otherwise . they do or don't, up to them.
Interesting that of the g'kids that did have them as part of their lives, K's ... the 3 g'kids in that situation . one lives in NC . and has just had a baby . so obviously she hasn't flown down here to hold the hands of g'parents .. the other lives in CO .. and I don't know that she has even called, not sure . the other lives about 3 hours away and has come a couple of times, stopped in . and visited briefly.
As far as I'm concerned .. I have said my piece with my dad .. as to what my expectations are .. and their situation. He is free to do as he chooses (I sense, . little to nothing will be the case .. as I know his wife .. and she is going to balk at any notion of moving to a different setting and balk mightily .. and she will also balk at any notion of spending $'s to bring aboard c'givers she thinks she doesn't need). I see the writing on the wall.
Thus .. I have spoken my piece about it .. and I will continue to reiterate it. When I see, and I suspect I will see ... that nothing is being done .. I will hand him the list of Geriatric Care Managers locally .. one can pay a service fee to someone who is adept at the whole process and putting it together .. and remind him .. that he needs to be taking those steps.
He will likely balk, . "well you know K, . she is just so damned resistant to any of these changes .. can't get her to budge off center".
ME: "Good luck to ya dad .. hope you get it worked out".
And off I go.
No, I don't intend to be there daily, and set up camp .. and cook their meals, clean their house, run their errands .. and basically give up my life/existence to their need. Not any iota of that.
In fact, it's interesting hearing how angry he gets at any notion that K's daughter exit for the weekend, .. and I've said as much to him. She is entitled to take a break from it all .. K balking that she doesn't NEED a c'giver .. fine .. that still doesn't make step sister then obligated to give up her life . to the front all things K. I disagree dad. Have said that to him every time it comes up. And yes, I see the parallel there, coming in my direction like a freight train barreling right at me.
Interesting to note .. I don't know a lot about K and her family of origin. But I do know this .. in her parents waning years .. her dad heart disease, . .her mother Dementia .. and them still living at home ... local.
K was working F/T .. and running the roads in service to her folks . aging .. I don't know why they didn't consider alternate placement (they had the $ for certain that much I do know). K has 3 sisters that live local . and I guess each of those sisters . it sounds like .. had their responsibility as to the parents . one of them . it was yard work, . the
One of the other sisters . I think . for pay . stayed at night . worked during the day hours . and there was a paid c'giver on site, day hours . but that sister stayed at night .. and the other sister .. not sure.
But I do know that K, . was meeting herself coming and going in those days .. in the care of her parents .. and trying to work F/T.
I've never asked her .. "why did you do that?, .. that's crazy . they should've been in another setting . not at home". I've never asked that question.
But to hear K talk about those days . she will say, and I've heard her say it more than once, many times, "Dorker, I so admire your ability to be able to enjoy those g'kids .. if I have one regret .. it's that ... I didn't get to go to my g'kids bday parties and different school functions and such . and spend the time I wanted with my g'kids .. in those days .. I was either working or putting out fires at my parents house .. and trying to take care of them . I tell ya in those days . .. I ran on auto pilot and was just absolutely exhausted to the bone . all the time .. I wish I'd of had the time you have to enjoy my g'kids .. ".
She has said that more than once. Many times.
That .. will get risen up the flagpole if there is any expectation Dorker is now gonna run that treadmill in service to their needs. I don't have to make excuses .. but .. push me far enough that one will be heard. I don't intend to give up my life . the way that K did for her parents .. it's simply not gonna happen .. I'm not gonna look back in 30 years and wish/regret that I'd of spent more time with my g'kids.
I've said what I have to say, and said it to him . whether he listens/heeds . is up to him (doubtful he will).
I have helped them thru this crises time .. a time that . make no mistake about it . had he been firing on all cylinders .. (doubtful his cylinders will ever ALL fire at once any longer) .. he'd of been attending to K and her calamity and I'd of not even known anyone even had a case of the sniffles, much less emergency bypass surgery. Her firing on all cylinders (her cylinders are permanently broken now) ... she'd of been taking care of my dad . and I'd of never even known there's been as much as a hiccup in their world.
And all under the guise of . "we don't want to trouble you . you have enough to do to not worry with us".
I'd of never known.
The only reason I was made aware .. is because they were both off the rails at the same damn time .. with major maladies, each of them. And neither able to do for the other. I have said what I needed to, to him . in that . the time has come that permanent arrangements need to commence.
Up to him to enact some of that. I will help, give him the name of Geriatric Care Managers, atty's .. I'll go visit sites if he'd like .. with him .. but I won't be running the roads and a mobile assisted living unit . bet on it. Been there, done that, far too long.
Unfortunately for them .. I rode this rickety broken bus far too long in the care of MIL . and saw how that show goes . and got off ... had it been them . so needy and growing more frail, . it might've been them . the beneficiaries of Dorker's good deeds all the years of their needs. But it wasn't . it was MIL. Dorker rode that rickety bus . too long and .. got off. And doesn't intend to get back on it, for ANYONE.
We paid my mom's landscapers remotely for years.
Suggest this to your dad.
Regarding your father, you are thinking of boundaries, which is great. But roleplay how you are going to react when the crises involve health and safety. It's one thing to sidestep pressure washing and yard/house maintenance, but what happens when you know your dad's health and safety are being affected? And are you going to be the one to drive him to medical appts? If he gets cancer treatment, that could be quite time-consuming.
I still think it's going to be very hard for you to NOT get involved when there is a health/safety issue/crisis, even if it's the result of your father failing to follow your recommendations. Your father has seen that you will do things for him. He probably won't be so likely to keep you out of the loop as he has in the past. How will your father react when you tell him you WON'T handle something for him?
The rubber will hit the road when he returns home next Friday. K is already there, so the new reality of two more health-compromised elders living there will become apparent.
Any further thoughts on the will/estate issue with your father?
The man has been hobbled ... for a year or more and essentially house bound and at K's mercy as to transport
He had PLENTY of nothing but TIME to dig in on that issue and chose not to fight that battle with her.
Ive expressed to him that her mental faculties are going to negate any ability to act on her own behalf much less his. Needs M & DPOA and I know a good atty.
As far as I'm concerned... their health needs, placement, on site c'givers ... whatever... K maybe had (has) designs their house goes to her daughter and g'kids and condo and any other assets. Maybe that was (is) K's angle.
Considering their need as far as I see it ... they could blow thru any/all of it in the coming years and its theirs to blow thru.
The house needs to be sold and proceeds from same utilized as they see fit in their care expenses.
I haven't gone there on that piece. I suspect any talking I'm doing is all for naught ... as ... whatever the reasons/basis ... hes not going to succseed in getting K to move one inch.
If he isnt able to wage that war ... unwilling... then we all know .. hes far too willing to watch as assets they both worked hard for, funnel to K's daughter, g'kids.
All the more reason in my mind .. the approach I think needs to be undertaken has been verbalized to my dad.
Dont wanna ... cant get K to agree ... your life/your $.
I am not buying into any scenario "hey Dorker .. were going to get it all set up .. in the end .. it's all yours .. not your brother .. not your stepsister or her kids ...yours. but we need you to set up shop here and be at our beckon call.
Even that would not summon me to the trenches.
SIL returned to IL yes for doc appts for them. But also to finish that all important basement work that at one time was used as argument to bring MIL there, would be too upsetting to MIL to have workers coming & going and banging and framming.
Some of it did take place..MIL in residence there. Has to be seen thru now.
Her husbands family has an annual July 4th family reunion in the area. They intend to attend.
Her daughter is getting married <2nd marriage> beginning of August. Sounds like it's an event just shy of what is seen in a debutante 1st wedding .. all the bells & whistles. I know . . Not all that common one throws that big a todo for a 2nd marriage. Guess not so in this case.
SIL and B obviously will be in IL for daughters wedding
Its these things that necessitated exit to IL and no return here til end of August or September.
If caregiver needs to supervise K, s/he can't be driving dad around.
This is starting to sound JUST like SIL and MIL. " I know, but she's SO stubborn".
SIL came to the brink of losing her own health before she put a stop to her mother's shenanigans.
Your dad's health is already poor BECAUSE of K's previous behavior. Didn't properly rehab from back, neglected getting his own medical stuff done. Going home with K's tantrums, firing caregivers HE needs could well cause his death.
I hope he realizes that. And that you can get the lawyer to come see him in the hospital to get some plan in place that protects him.
Was heard til I could puke with MIL saga. Now being heard by dad, different verbiage ... same result.
Difference though, at one time I was a mere babe and naive as to the c'giver role and fell victim to "whadd'r'ya gunna do" jumping ever higher and in lock step to it all.
Til I didnt. Having excrutiatingly learned ...
They dont get to upend your world in the pursuit of their failure to act. And I resigned.
Too bad for dad that my tutelage to that experience wasn't at the beckon call to their needs ... some 15 or 16 years ago. They & not MIL would've benefited before I wised up.
Have you acknowledged this, Dorker? What will happen then? Are you going to be hands-off if this happens? I think you will go running if there is a health crisis. Frankly, I was surprised at how much you did during your father's recent hospitalization/rehab.
So you're not going to bother pushing about the will/estate issue? Like Barb noted, an attorney can come to a facility.
Dorker, if I were your dad and my husband (second marriage) was causing my health to fail, my kids would be all over him and the situation.
Not because they would be protecting my money, but because they would be protecting their mom's health and well being.
They would be encouraging me to move out to a facility where I could get the proper care and leave my demented DH to his own devices. They would NOT be offering to drive me to treatment, but they would arrange to set up a system (either volunteers through our community or paid transport) to get me to treatment).
Just saying.
Starting? STARTING?!?
Okay. Maybe “starting” if you’re counting from back when K had her bypass surgery. No offense intended - I adore you, Barb. You are among the very kindest here and definitely the leader in level-headed, calm, sensible reasoning.
However - the “she’s so stubborn” and the “I know what I need to do” and s(he) is managing” has been spouted with only slightly different verbiage for weeks now.
Like Ive said - same chit show but with a new cast.
Dad/K = MIL
Dorker = SIL
Stepsister = Dorker
Brother = DH
Bossy Boots = M (except without the actual common sense and true “get ‘er done” ability).
For me, at least - the “proof in the pudding” was made crystal clear in Dorkers retelling of the conversation with Dad - when he was ever so pizzed off at the stepsister having the gall to “get a whole lot of gone” — instead of meekly accepting the role of dedicated servitude - thus allowing dad and K to continue to stay in their house, living as THEY WANT. Disregarding the fact that living as they want now REQUIRES someone else to prop it up.
Im afraid I believe Dad and K have arrived at that spot - the absolute most devastating spot in dealing with a diminishing elderly loved one - where they knowingly or unknowingly are willing to throw anyone and everyone under the bus - so they can live as they want.
I wrote about this phase - as in applied to MIL - somewhere roughly 8,150 posts ago. And, we all know how the season finale went.
So, here we are for Season Two of The Real Caregivers of Florida - with a somewhat unexpected turn thrown into the storyline: Is dad showing signs of some cognitive impairment of his own?
Stay turned...
It would be "Mom, this is what needs to happen. We're arranging it". And I'd be glad not to have to argue with DH.
And if I didn't get with the program they'd say "Sorry mom. That's what's on offer here". And they'd walk away. I would deserve that for not cooperating with the people who want only what's best for me.
I know this because it's how I brought them up. Make him an offer, Dorker, don't negotiate.
"Dad/K = MIL
Dorker = SIL
Stepsister = Dorker
Brother = DH
Bossy Boots = M (except without the actual common sense and true “get ‘er done” ability)."
Brilliant with the new season's cast substitutions!
BarbBrooklyn: "And if I didn't get with the program they'd say "Sorry mom. That's what's on offer here". And they'd walk away."
To me, the million dollar question is whether or not Dorker would actually walk away. She always noted that MIL wasn't HER mother, yet she'd done so much for her. Well, this is her biological father, and I think it will be very difficult to walk away from him, particularly if his health/safety is being compromised.
(And this is just me, but part of any offer I'd make to help/the program would be contingent upon her father getting his affairs in order with an attorney, to include POA/HCPOA and estate planning. If he wouldn't do it because of K, there would be no further help from me.)
My DH tried to get his mom to stop smoking and to get more care. She said he was being abusive and threatened to call APS. He walked away.
I had to DRAG him to see her on her deathbed (she refused rehab and stopped eating after ill-advised open heart surg.). She starved herself to death, with the permission of her two other children.
My mom was pretty compliant, but my brothers and I were all clearly prepared to hang tough if mom said she wasn't going to go to an independent living facility after lots of "emergency" phone calls. Best thing that ever happened; the doc there recognized that mom had cognitive issues (her regular doc said she was "fine"). She got the treatment and the support that she needed and was able to socialize (aka B[tch and moan about the string beans and the van drivers) to her heart's content.
Sometimes us "kids" know best and we should be prepared to practice the same "tough love" that many of us experienced as teenagers.
I mean, the thing is, our elders are asking US to give up time, money, job advancement and time with kids and grandkids to support their "independence". This stuff that my mom wanted us to do was NOT without cost to us/me in terms of quality of life, health and economic well-being. I felt totally fine with saying "no mom, I can't do this anymore" and letting HER make the call as to whether she was going to agree to the sensible plan we'd made or balk. And bear the consequences of her decision.
Fortunately, she trusted us and said okay.
Amen, Barb. Amen!
And thats the thing that really gets me - that either they can’t see it or they see it and just don’t care. Not as long as they can work it and get what they need - to continue to live as they want. No matter how extreme it is or how hard it is on their children.
Fortunately, I’ll never be able to do that to Rainman, given his disability. But I gotta believe that if I had a more typical child - it would still be something I’d never do.
I have to believe that most parents feel that way. That even my mother and Dorkers MIL - and the parents of most of the people who post here at this site - at some point - in the beginning - felt that way too.
So how and when does it turn into the eff’ed up situation that it becomes? When their “independence” over-rides EVERYONE and EVERYTHING else?
At the beginning, mom decided (and sensibly so) that she needed to stop driving and turned her checkbook over to my SIL. She called me and asked if I would come visit once a week to set up her meds.
This all was eminently "do-able". No big deal. If there was a week I knew I couldn't get up to see her, I'd either do 2 weeks of meds, or have my brother or SIL do it.
But then the phone calls started. Mom had always been quite organized and kept a running list for each of us--things that needed to be shopped for, fixed, tended to. All things that could be seen to in a week or two.
All of a sudden, everything was an emergency. It was no longer "when you can.." , it was "right now, this HAS to be taken care of".
In retrospect, I've should have identified this as a change in mental status and gotten her to a neurologist, but in so many ways, my mother was still so "with it". Just terribly needy all of a sudden.
When, three days in a row, I got called at work to come running to her side to fix something, I said "no". I was going to get fired; I had a mortgage and an unemployed husband. I wasn't going to endanger my livelihood and future. She would not have wanted that. So for me, putting my foot down and saying "no" was actually pretty easy.
I hope so. I hope you can stand firm with your boundaries and not allow for mission creep.
I will bet that the hospital or clinic providing his treatment has details of transportation providers. Ask.
Forewarned is forearmed.
I think it was Rainmom that clearly defined .. they want the autonomy of remaining in their home .. without any realization of what it takes to keep that in place for them. At what point, does the curtain come down on any ability on their parts, to see that ... because it surely does. That big heavy curtain falls down .. and they are no longer able to even consider, .. "hey this isn't working, .. I have so and so running their legs off". They don't see it. They want what they want.
I want what I want . which is the ability to set boundaries and live my life according to what works for me. Somewhere there has to be middle ground .. and it has to be stood firm .. holding the line on that.
Some of the situation with my dad's cancer dx .. remains unanswered to at this point. He hasn't really talked about it. I took the paperwork to him . and as I said, at least at that point (maybe by now, he's thought otherwise and given it a glance through . maybe not). At that point, it was like somebody took a chit right in his lap .. the look on his face, of not wanting to deal with it. Kick that can down the road. I get it .. some people wouldn't want to face it head on . .and would opt instead to live with that hanging on the periphery and not dealt with. I get it.
In the end, . it is going to have to be addressed. Don't wanna go to the oncology appt and follow through. Not acceptable choice IMO. Would he opt for that, .. to just summarily ignore it and not deal with it. I really don't know ... I can't say he wouldn't. I just don't know. Not an acceptable choice, IMO. So you don't wanna face it/deal with it, .. at least go get educated as to what that choice will bring forth as to the QOL issues going forward. Get educated on that choice.
I hope that isn't an option he thinks viable. I will have an issue with that.
So .. okay .. go to the appt .. and there you will be set an appt for PET scan . for staging ..
So . that staging will tell more of the story. If the mass is isolated to the one spot on the lung .. and it can be targeted with radiation .. so it's been said by Oncologist .. then .. opt for that .. I guess . his choice.
If that PET scan tells a different story that we're not yet aware of . and it has metastasized .. bone, liver, . .whatever .. that's a whole different issue.
I really don't see him as viable for chemo . and radiation .. and he certainly is no candidate for sectioning his lung.
I could see that he might opt for no treatment in that event. I could envision that as his approach . and I can't say that I'd blame him.
All of this has ENORMOUS bearing on how things go .. moving forward.
He has a wife . as we've seen . who won't move off center ..
Has Dementia (undx'd) won't move off center for dx even.
Somewhere in all that he has some preconceived notion .. ill advised .. that K's daughter should dare to leave her mom .. is selfish and deplorable. Extrapolate that out to his care .. he will (hasn't said as much yet) apply that same standard to his own care, and his own daughter.
That's where it's gonna hit the fan.
He has several upcoming follow up appts .. as a result of this whole falling off the rails ..
I am not without compassion. I will help .. as long as I am seeing some motion to do as I asked. Get c'givers on site. K won't agree to that, won't move off center .. well dad ... here's what it looks like when I too won't move off center.
You need c'givers on site .. you have said yourself that eating in the hospital has brought to your attention how poor your nutrition has been . that K just isn't able to put a meal together anymore, .. and you haven't been able to do it yourself, with your foot/back issues for over a year.
I'm not going to be
I'm not going to be running there daily .. or even every other day to drop off and warm up casseroles .. because K refuses and won't move off center.
A paid c'giver on site can answer to the above. Don't want that, MOW . is an option .. let me put you in touch with that service, and you can get it lined up. K doesn't want that .. well I hate it for ya dad .. I know nutrition is an important piece in all this .. and I wish you'd find a way to get her off center .. absent any willingness to do that .. wish you luck.
Just one example.
I'm not running over there, because .. "oh gee Dorker, .. we are all out of cash . to pay the yard guy, to pay the housekeeper, .. and neither one of us can drive .. can you come here and get a signed check .. and get it cashed and bring some cash here so we can pay these folks".
Nope .. perfect set up a c'giver can assist with . drive you to the bank ..and take care of that, via drive-thru.
So many scenarios that one can name. "Gee Dorker, .. we are almost out of our rx's ... would you come get a check to pay for it . and then run go to the pharmacy for us".
"we're out of groceries here . wonder if you'd take care of picking up a few things for us".
MISSION CREEP.
Been there.
"Gee Dorker, seems like K maybe .. I don't know . wondering if she has a UTI . needs to get to the doc .. ".
On and on it goes. Nope.
Been there/done that.
Get a c'giver on site, . and in the b'ground be thinking about what your future plans are . as to a setting/facility . her mental faculties are going to deteriorate .. and you yourself dad . are in no shape to care for her presently . and not only that, depending on your cancer dx . you may not even be here to take care of her, sorry but that's the rub.
A conversation had with my dad (and also incidentally with MIL .. in the last few days) ..
With my dad . we were on the topic . the day I put it on the table with him as to what my expectations are . .going forward, paid c'giver . and beyond that . investigation as to settings .. D and MPOA . and so forth.
On that topic . talking to my dad .. just batting around what had been said . and him expressing some of what he faces in K who won't move off center.
I said to him (baiting him really . because I know damn well what was done with his mom . who lived in AL .. him here in FL . he has a brother that lives there . who handled it all, but his mom .. dementia .. was put in a nursing home in the end .. and his dad had died of a massive heart attack decades before). I was really "baiting him" when I asked that .. covertly.
Me: "Wonder what did people do years ago .. ???....".
<I was hoping he'd come forth with the fact, that his mom had to go to a nursing home . and at that, I would've acknowledged with a nod of my head . as in .. there ya go>
His answer, bear in mind both my dad and myself have an affinity for the mountains and mountain life . and the people in the backwoods .. and so forth, his answer: "Oh I think back in yesteryear . you'd of seen ole grandma or g'pa .. in the home of some relatives .. .. they'd of been taken in and taken care of .. (pauses for a moment) ... probably that still goes on to this day in some of the more rural areas".
<very telling, .. if there is expectation that I bring in ole dad and his wife .. think again . they know damn well I wouldn't bring in MIL . what makes them think I'd bring them in>
My response: "oh I think . maybe in years gone by .. people didn't live as long . and ya know .. people weren't as spread out .. lived closer to one another, . maybe g'ma came to live with her daughter . but just up the road was Aunt so and so and cousin so and so . and uncle so and so .. and so some of that burden could be shared .. the world has changed .. people live longer ..just not a viable option these days ".
Dad, looking off into space: "You're probably right".
I had hoped to "bait" him with that question ..
Goal there was to have him answer that his mom was put into a nursing home. At which I'd of nodded my head with a "there ya go". It didn't land that way.
But I would've reminded him that he too has been down this road with an aging parent . and at that time, obviously a decision was made . the mother needed that kind of care . and that was enacted. Same thing here.
On the nutrition piece, I pointed out to my dad that c'giver can make enough in one meal to serve for two days or more . soup, stews, casseroles, etc. And .. that what my SIL's mom did .. she lived alone until the age of 94 . and she would routinely do on the smartphone, Grubhub or Uber eats .. or whatever . .a meal from Outback or Olive Garden . and make two meals out of it. There are ways to continue eating nutritiously. Told him . "you're gonna get real good with that Smartphone that K's daughter made you get".
It's been interesting through the years .. as they've watched me run myself ragged in the MIL care scene. And they both took exception . .as did I .. and asked more than once, .. "why is this your problem?, this is her daughter's problem not yours".
So I guess the inference there .. I guess .. that now this is my problem ... I am the daughter .. so now it's mine to take on . as I AM THE DAUGHTER.
What they don't either one of them have a full clear, bright .. in focus picture of . is the fact that I know this drill, all to well, and it's mission creep ... and won't allow myself to fall down that rabbit hole again.
Yes, the past month or so has been crises mode, . both of them down for the count, which has never happened before. But it's a big red caution sign flashing . as I expressed to my dad, . that status quo no longer is viable . and there needs to be provision .. going forward to address it.
He seems to always circle back to the fact that K's daughter is grabbing a whole bunch of "gone" . and out of the scene her mom's care. Guess what .. her mom is a handful . with her Dementia . you can't even deal with her .. as you allow her the latitude to stay stuck on center and not move left or right .. and you expect her daughter to give up her existence to deal with it. Doesn't work that way.
That curtain has apparently come down . that big heavy . curtain . that disallows they see . what it takes to prop it up . and they are just now beginning to see . what it's going to look like.
Deal with it .. get a geriatric case manager, if you don't want me in it all directing it .. or what my instructions are ...
Whatever pie in the sky vision you have of a rural country setting .. and the g'ma sitting on the front porch being brought her lemonade by the daughter .. as she just finished changing the chitted up sheets . and corralling all the pills together for g'ma to take . and coordinating doc appts . and running to the pharmacy ..
That's not reality.
Another just interesting tidbit . of conversation had with my dad:
Him pondering poor MIL's plight that he can so feel for her.
Dad: "I so feel for your mother in law, . you work hard all your life .. and you are proud and content in all the spoils of your labor . and in the end .. it's all gone . you don't own anything anymore, . it's just you .. and whatever setting . and it's all gone .. I so feel for her plight".
Me: "I don't know dad .. I guess from where I sit . it to me . it's kinda . when you can no longer care for yourself . or the spoils of your labor .. it would be a relief . I would think .. to not have to do it ... that's kinda how I see it".
Dad pauses, contemplating what I just said: "No, not really .. it's hard ... it's hard to end up in this spot .. that at the end of your life .. all you've worked for and taken pleasure in .. and it's gone .. all of it gone".
Yesterday was all about swimming and grilling out here, . and having the kids over.
Before that however, .. we headed out, DH and myself (I didn't go see my dad yesterday at all, limiting my involvement some in the geriatric scene .. didn't go the day before either, was watching kids .. I rarely go see MIl these days . haven't had time). Yesterday DH was heading out to go see his mom . get some fresh flowers to bring her, so I went along since I rarely have time to see his mom.
We were sitting in the parking lot while he ran in to get some flowers . and SIL texted, ... "I'm sorry you guys are so hot there, it's in the 60's and rainy here".
I texted back, "Send it this way ..we need cooler weather or rain either one .. it's so hot here. We're on our way to see MIL . bring her some fresh flowers .. a short visit, then back home to have the kids over to grill out".
<I knew it .. as soon as I texted that, . here comes the todo list from SIL>
And in fact, no surprise .. yep here it came.
Her response: "Oh good, that's sweet of you guys .. I'm sure she'll love seeing you guys. Can you check her clothes while you're there, . she thinks that some of her clothes don't get returned from the laundry .. just make sure that her pj sets are complete . .like there are pants to go with tops and vice versa . I don't know if they're returning from the laundry .. all her things . she seems to think they aren't .. and .. she said the other day they had her in some man's pants .. I don't know what's going on there with all that. Ask her if she got her shower yesterday .. I know they do showers there on Wednesdays and Saturdays . and she doesn't always avail herself of a shower on her designated days . but she's had some real chitapalooza episodes .. she probably should've . she gets really aggravated and annoyed with me when I ask .. check with her and see if she got her shower yesterday".
<this whole clothing issue .. she asked me the last time I was going . which was like two weeks ago . to look at that. Wanted me to check . .thinks some of her clothes aren't coming back .. wants them moved from the closet to the dresser, too hard for her to get her stuff out of the closet ... as she has to stand to do that . vs .. sitting in her wheelchair, to go thru her dresser>
I declined at that time to address it and said to SIL: "Nope . not moving her clothes, she's been told that she needs to ask for assistance to change clothes .. she doesn't do it . and tries to do for herself instead .. and puts herself at enormous risk for fall .. and no ... I'm not gonna be a party to moving her clothes>
That was my answer to her, that was two weeks ago, the last time I layed eyes on MIL.
Since that time it's been kinda humorous (aggravating) as I've seen group texts . at DD going that way and request for same . and no response from DD. I haven't asked DD if she addressed it . when visiting. Don't care. I've seen group texts to DH . going to visit, requesting same .. and no response. I don't prompt .. or pry .. don't care.
So then yesterday I piped up we were on the way there . and picking up fresh flowers and knew .. the chore list is coming, wait for it. And sure enough here it came.
So when DH came and got back into the car, .. I said to him.
ME: "Well I told your sister we were heading out to see your mom and the chore list has arrived".
DH: "Ignore her, that's what I do .. I don't even read it .. but if I do .. I don't respond .. I pick and choose what I do and don't do .. Just ignore it:.
ME: "Did you want to know what she wants done".
DH: "What?".
Me: "She is still on that clothing piece, . wants MIL's clothing gone thru . thinks that some of the stuff doesn't come back from the laundry . the matching pj's .. ".
DH: "Ignore her, . hell she's the one that set it up there with her clothing . I didn't .. I don't know what she even has in the way of pj's or clothing to