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Cricket -– thanks about the info about my sis maybe having deep depression. When we have time to talk privately, I will check with her. She’s very introverted. She changed a lot since her nervous breakdown years and years ago. Please enjoy your trip to CA!! Deef – -we have a lot of spirits all over the island. Unfortunately, most of the islanders believe in them and hence, makes it stronger here. Quite prevalent. I will admit that I once stepped off the sidewalk to someone’s property, and I just wanted to turn and RUN. That place had something that was very bad (or maybe it didn’t like me.) SWClancy- – your mother is a smart woman. She must know that it’s time to go to the NH. At least she’s not going there kicking and screaming. Have you had some quiet time with her and asked Why she thinks it’s time to go NH?
Lildeb – -trust me, I did that throat thing kicking and screaming (okay, more like, I paid my nephew to clean her trache every night for 2 years before they finally quit doing it.) Stormy - -I have my quarterly blood test to do (was suppose to be on September but never got around to doing it.) So I will do that this Saturday. When the clinic calls me to schedule a follow-up visit due to the blood test, I will let the doctor know. He will just tell me: Exercise, exercise, exercise. That is his solution to my whole medical problems for years now. ..I’m still working on it… The Dead room is the one that I always feel unwanted in there (sis is moving in here). The scary room (the boys) is just plain scary – this is the room that sis would “talk” to them. My niece (age 21) refuses to go thru that room. She says it just plain scares her. Ever since father had his stroke, both rooms have now felt “normal.” When I mentioned this to my nephew-who-sees, he said that the house spirits now accept me as “the head of the house.” So, now the whole house welcomes me. Ugh!! As long as they don’t TALK, or MOVE OBJECTS or anything that is NOT normal, I’m fine. (shivering here)…. Cat – I’m glad that you’ve had a great day today. ;) ….And I’m also glad that Stormy’s posting here.
Oh Cat you've got me crying here. Thank you so much for the wonderful words!!!! I think i am going to like it here. Thanks cat and book! Love you girls. Gotta run now. Will talk later. Hugs stormy
Morning everyone! Mom is still snoring so thought I would pipe in. No daycare today:( Closed for the holiday. Faythe was supposed to come for a few houes to relieve me, but she had to cancel her son's b'day party on Saturday, due to rain. So she was going to rush everything along today so she could be here later, but I told her to just enjoy her day with the boys. So now I'm looking forward to a very long day alone with Mom. Guess I'll do the apple pies tomorrow. Mom would be reaching into everything and making a mess. It's cold here right now. Was in the 30's when I got up. But at least we are not using the furnaces yet. Suctioning!!! GAG!!! That would send me right over the top! I can clean shit all day long, but anything out of Mom's mouth gags me to no end. She threw up a couple times in the last 2 years and I was alone with her. Nearly did me in for good. Never could deal with mouth stuff! If I see some man spit on the street, I gag! Some mornings I have trouble with Mom's dentures and have to leave them out until her stomach settles. You ladies are amazing for doing what you do! Mom's skin is perfect and she has had no problems with bed sores. She had a few stitches from falls a couple times on her chin and the back of her hand for a skin tear. Of course they didn't last long because she picked at them until they were gone. They used glue, but I told them to stitch to because of her constant picking. Stormy, you have your hands full but seem to manage everything and still be a great mom. Here is my fritter recipe! 2-3 apples cut in quarters, peel and slice into 1/4" slices Batter 1 1/3 cups flour 2 tablsp sugar 2 teasp baking powder 1/4 teasp salt 1 egg 2/3 cup milk whisk together dry ingredients then add egg and milk and whisk until smooth. If too thick, add a bit of milk. Coat apple slices and deep fry in heated Crisco. Test 1 slice, if it floats to top, crisco is ready. Let one side brown then turn to cook other side. Drain on paper towels. Roll in sugar or cinnamon and sugar before you eat. Good plain too! Enjoy Oops! Mom is stirring and I still have to fill her pill box for the week. Hope you all have a quiet day!
Ok, I'm finally posting here. I've been reading all your stories for a while, and it's time for me to talk. Everyone's story is so personal, some inspiring and others heartwrenching. Thanks all you guys for being so welcoming. I see so much intelligence and creativity in you gals. Deefer, I remember you, Beck , Judy, Cricket, Cattails, and every one of you have you burdens and joys(?) My heart is crying right now, my 19 year old cat is dying in the livingroom. Have to put her to sleep today. Mom is 103, a healthy 103. She climbs the stairs to her room, and walks with a walker. I was a Parent Education teacher, teaching young mother about parenting. Now I am home with Mom. I can leave her for a few hours in the daytime, she is scared to be home alone at nite. I am going crazy. She is very depressive, and it's hard for me to deal with that. My husband is great, but he has work, and I have Mom. I feel very isolated and lonely. Thanks for listening. I need to go check on my kitty. Rena
So sorry to hear about your kitty! I have 4, all rescues, and still very active and healthy, but one is about 15, so our time with him is very special as we only took him in 2 years ago. Pets are so special and so important to care givers. Sometimes they are the only good part of our day. My father in law just turned 102 in July and is still living alone and doing most things for himself. It so great when they can be that old and still have their minds.He has amazing stories to tell about all he has seen and done in his life. I wish my husband had work! He was let go from his job in Feb. of 2011 when a new company took over the business he worked for for many years. He will be 64 this month, so getting a job is not really an option. He just started collecting Social Security when his unemployment ran out. I am never alone and going crazy listening to his voice 24/7. He calls himself retired and pretty much doesn't do a whole heck of a lot to help out here. I keep threatening to run away from home!!! At this point I'm not sure what's worse, having him home and underfoot all the time, or taking care of Mom for the last 5 years! There are lots of good people here and it's a great place to vent and talk and trade gross stories! I've been a part of this thread for about 3 years and am just get back into the swing of things. I was absent for a while and recharging myself. Glad you have decided to join the crew!
Rena, Talk to us... I am so sorry about your cat. I have as cat and just about everyone here has an animal or 2 or more. Like DEEF!!
Just write what you are feeling. Vent and live. Rant and live.
When I had to put my cat to sleep in the 80's, I freaked out and tried to have her stuffed. I am not kidding, my grief was so bad I didn't want to let her go. I called all over and found a taxidermist that worked with pets, since not all of them do, and he was doing what was then a new thing called 'freeze dry'. He told me to get her in the freezer fast and so I picked her up from the vet in an Abbott Pharmaceutical box and popped her into the freezer on top of the fridge. Under a trout. Figured she'd like that.
I worked through my grief and a few months later was able to bury her. Even with all of that I still can't imagine your pain and how isolated you must feel. This is a great website and this is a wonderful group of people here.
Glad you have your husband and I hope he is good comfort for you tonight when your pain over your kitty's loss will be so hard felt. Rainbow Bridge time sweet reenie. I believe we'll see them again.
DEEF!! I dunno, just like saying: DEEF!! Have you tried an oven timer with your husband? Set for 15 minutes and announce Quiet Time. Hey quit laughin! It might work! Back it up with the Texas Flyswatter.
Welcome to new folks and all folks and I spoke to Ted this am and he is doing better and still handles his issues with courage. He is an inspiration.
It is so good to read everyone's story and see the journey that everyone is on. We know that we are not alone, from an amazing woman in the South Pacific to incredible women in the Pacific Northwest and all through the States and up into New England and all the way down to Florida. From Ireland and from Italy, beautiful warrior women have hung out on this thread and on this site. We are not alone.
Ted and Cuz, you are now honorary warrior women. It's like being 'one of the guys' but better.
Love you guys way more than you'll ever know. Wonder who will get Boat Time?
Cat, Your post about getting a new bed stuck in my head, so I went back to read it again. Wow, a sleigh bed at a garage sale! Would definitely like to see the neighborhood you live in. Around here we see "Free" signs on used furniture in front yards. My bedroom set is 40 years old. Bought it when we got married. The mattress and box spring are hand-me-downs from my younger sister. My original one was stuffed with old towels so the springs didn't stab me in the butt. The used one has now been on my bed for 15 years and needs to be replaced. Husband would like a Tempurpedic, like that's gonna happen any time soon! Sounds like a good deal on the new bed. Guess one can only dream! My living room set has it's fifth cover set as we bought that in 1979. I'm not complaining though. I'm pretty happy with what I do have and grateful that in these hard times I still have my possessions and a place to live. I know so many that have so much less and have had to sell their treasures just to survive. When the grocery store has a buy 1 get 2 free sale, I stock up on what I need and give the 2 free to my friends who are less fortunate. It's quite obvious to me that the government is not concerned about the millions of citizens who are doing without these days. I guess it's up to us to help each other get through these bad economic times. Sorry! Got off on a tangent after just talking with another friend who is losing their home to one of the big ass banks! Mom has behaved very well today and is eating when I feed her. It's almost time for supper, so I have to cook something for her and get her ready for bed. Then I can deal with our meal. On a gross note, hehe! Took her to the bathroom to pee and ended up helping her get a huge BM out! She does not have the know how to do it herself anymore and most times it just falls out without her even knowing. This time she needed a bit of help. That's my gross story for the day, I hope!!! The night is young!!!!!
Deef! Bob! Whoa! I sneak a peek & look whose posting! Super weather here in the NW. Wish I could host you all! Should have sent the Havana bed home with you Deef ~ Hope y'all are doing the best possible ...
Rena, you're not alone. Prayers for you! Writing about my little Blackie helped me to process my grief. I wrote out my feelings here and everyone was so loving and empathetic towards me. It really helped. Most of the time when I wrote I would be crying. Tears help to heal the pain. I still really miss my little guy and sometimes I hear some noise and think of him. We understand and are here for you too. Bobbie, until I read about your grieving over your cat and how you had her frozen for the taxidermist I thought I was the most pathetic griever over pets, hah! I didn't know whether to cry or laugh so I did both when I read those comments of yours. Once we lost a lop eared bunny (danny buck) and I was out with a flashlight sobbing for hours looking under parked cars crying his name. I like you, was really pathetic and I mean that in a good way.xoxo Thanks everyone for the good wishes for me on my trip to CA, like Deef said it is so much work getting ready to go. Every time I get that panicky feeling starting to come over me I just take a few breaths and tell myself I am doing good and will get it all done in time. I'm talking to myself now! lol Deef, My husbands working 16 hrs a day for the last couple of weeks and if he didn't work out of the home/garage I would be going really nuts. This way I at least get to see him. There have been days though that he drives me nuts too. Everyone have a nice night... cross them fingers, :) Love Cricket
Just thought I'd tell you my daughter has two boxes with the ashes of 2 well loved cats. One I actually paid $300 to have done for her. Call me crazy, but she wanted her babies to stay with her.
Deef: Seriously, if the sleigh bed did not weight two f..ing tons, I'd ship it to you. My husband and I bought a 4 poster bed when we first got married. We kept it until we moved to Wa. So essentially, we had it for over 30 years. By that time it was falling apart. We got the sleigh bed when we moved here and at a bargain deal. But sometimes you just have to admit you made a mistake and fortunately we can get something different. I hope that sucker sells and I hope they have 4 men to move it.
I have the ashes of two dogs. My sweet Kate who was my soul mate and my Sky who was the total opposite of Kate, but had a lot of me in her too. When hubby and I get out of the crematorium we want our ashes mixed with our dogs ashes and put to rest someplace, hopefully not the nearest dumpster. Come to think of it, I should have a talk with my son about that and make sure he understands that I will haunt him forever if he doesn't follow through. He'll believe it, because he knows me. We currently have 2 dogs and they'll be going with us too. Of course, I'm assuming we will outlive them.
Here's a curious thought. When we get to a certain age, we have to consider if we take on another pet, because we might not be able to live long enough to take care of them to the end of their lives. This makes me sad because I can't imagine not having a dog or a cat. There is something so vulnerable and validating about the way we love them and they love us. My husband says when our current dogs are gone, we are not going to have any more pets. We will be 64 and 65 next year and Mattie will be 5 this Nov. and Marcus was 6 this past June. So maybe that makes sense, but it feels sad. Of course, there are always older pets that need homes. I've had my share of rescues and they know and are so grateful for the kindness, security and love you give them. Our Marcus is a rescue, so was Sky. So little does hubby know, but I have a plan B.
Bobbie, never thought of having a pet stuffed. Glad your freezer got you through that decision. (However, I do have some locks of Kate's fur.) My brother-in-law always told his dad that he was going to have him stuffed so he could take him with him hunting. Wanted to record lots of his expressions and, kind of like a Chatty Kathy, just pull the string and he talks. My husband is not a hunter, so the idea didn't really catch hold with him.
I will confess, that as much as I love my husband, having him under foot sometimes gets to me. I'm grateful he has a part time job. When I am home alone it is just a nice experience. Having said that, I would never want to be without him.
Love to all you loving and crazy women. You are just my perfect cup of tea. Cat
Just doing a drive by - want all of you to know you are in my prayers every night for peace, for strength, for patience, for blessings that you can remember. I know how hard it is, been there, done that. Still working on the aftermath but feel like I'm getting a little better. Dad will be gone 1 year on October 26th and I can already feel the dread of that fateful day I had to say goodbye. But so glad to see some of the oldies - Rip, Bob, Deef, anyone I forgot. Love all of you, Kuli
Cat, you know how I feel about pets n I see you do as well as well as many others. Have you thought about if u did get another pet n for some reason something happen to you two before the pet time to go that your son would take care of it? They sure are a lot of company n mine even come to me n meow real loud when they hear me get upset with the mnl. It is as if they r saying, "chill mommy its not worth making yourself sick." ; )
Thanks Kuli n sorry you r dealing with the aftermath of the loss of your dad. Certain times do make it harder. I do hope u r able to find peace within in your heart n remember he is at a better place. Tomorrow, will be the date when I lost my mom at n early age of 56. She was an alcoholic n had depression issues but she was still my mom. I cannot say it was all bad but a lot was yet she was my mom n she did the best she could by partly the way she was raised as a child. I know she is much happier where she is at right now. I hope u see n feel the same for you dad too.
WOW! It took me ALL day to read the weekend posts! Busy thread!!! It is late now tho and I am off to bed. Just wanted to say hello to everyone! Several new names! Welcome! This really is a great website and great thread! Thanks for saving me when I was incredibly lonly and felt I had no where to turn! You are a light in my life, I pray for all of you each night and look forward to your posts each day! It was a busy weekend- but good! I will fill you in later! Hope you sleep well! Mame
Hey everybody, it is late and i will be having to go to bed shortly but i did want to say, "Hello" to everyone. I hope ya'll have a good day tomorrow. Much love and hugs stormy.
Bobbi, thanks for the story about your cat and the freezer, and the taxidermist. I'm sorry, but I laughed too. Wish I could get my old horse stuffed when he dies. He is such a beautiful horse. I've had him since he was 4 months old, and he is 30 years old now. He has been with me longer than anyone else in my life. Deef, your apple fritters sound so good. Wonder if it would work to bake them instead of frying? Judy, your brother must be very special. Kuli, glad your doing better, so good to hear from you. My husband will be gone a year next month, and it has been weighing on my mind a lot lately. It was about this time last year that he got really bad. Didn't think it would be so hard. sigh. Maybe I can get Indio to do a smudging ceremony. I am a terrible skeptic, but when my husband was in terrible pain, Indio would smudge him, and the pain went away. OK, I'm sure I've forgotten people, so sorry. But, getting late, and I need to get to bed. I did have a lovely time with the horses yesterday. Beautiful fall weather, lots of birds migrating through the area. Even ducks. Saw a whitetail deer with twin fawns.
Lildeb: Leaving a pet with my son or granddaughter would have to based on their circumstances at the time. For example, would they be working all the time or not really want a pet, etc. I have a friend who does dog rescue work. She has taken pets from seniors who are too ill to care of them or have to go into a NH and can't take their pet with them. She is very good at placing animals with the perfect families. That might be a solution.
Today we noticed Marcus had a little cut on the tip of his ear. We just noticed it because there was a bump there where the blood had dried so we noticed it when we were petting him. You can't see anything because the tips of his ears have dark fur. Anyway, I got a warm wet cloth and got the blood off, still there is a ridge there and I don't know if it is where the cut is starting to heal or what. I'm worried about possibly a thorn. Can't imagine where he would get one, but not ruling that out just yet. I'm probably over thinking this, but I'll watch it for a couple of days and call the vet if I can't be sure.
Anyway, the point of this long winded epistle is that Marcus just followed me around all day today. He comes and lays by my chair in the office and stares at me with love in his eyes. Mattie always does this, but Marcus is the self-appointed guard dog, so he likes to be outside or stationed at the windows when not napping on the couch. It's just so touching to see them grateful that you noticed a little boo boo and fussed over it. They just know that you love them and they repay it ten fold.
I guess I would never want to have to give up a pet I owned, due to old age or illness, and not be certain that it would get at least as much love as it got in my home. My heart breaks for elderly people who find themselves in that position.
Hey, Rena - Hard day for you and the kitty. Losing a pet hurts so much. I'm thinking about you. Coyotes got my cat, Hocus Pocus, when we first moved into this house. That was 10 years ago. I still get teary when I think of her. She followed me like a dog and always brought me a gift, putting half dead mice, lizards and birds at my feet. I always thanked her and praised her for it and she pranced around like she was proud. Cat, I just saw an 8 year old cat in the rescue kennels at Petsmart tonight when I was on a cricket run for the lizard (Sorry, Cricket, but Spike was getting bored with mealworms.). I thought, now who is going to adopt this overweight (He's obviously been a very overfed guy) 8 year old cat? If he's still there when I get back from this heinous family reunion trip with mother-dearest, I think it will have to be me. His info paper said his elderly owner died. Poor, sad, fatcat. My dad has been nuttier than usual. A few days ago, he accused my nephew of stealing a ham! OMG! A ham? Really? He swore that my nephew hid the ham on the patio or in the yard. Oh, brother. We showed him the ham in the freezer, but Dad still gave everyone the hairy eyeball, thinking we were the nuts. Today, he was only out of bed for less than 2 hours. I don't know what to think.
I threw a whole bunch of my father’s catalogs. He keeps accusing oldest sis and I keep telling him it’s me. He just has it in his head that she has “stolen” it for herself. I feel so bad for her. Of course, when he accuses her, she keeps her mouth shut. When he accuses me (and he’s wrong), we end up with our yelling match. Trust me, with father, you dispute it or he accuses you over and over, every day, for weeks and months…
Judy: I'm trying to picture the hairy eye-ball. I know it makes me LMAO, so I guess it doesn't really matter what it looks like. I understand how your dad feels. I get pissed off too when people steal my hams. Fortunately, I am not a ham lover, so I get over it pretty quick. Seriously, I'm sorry your dad is having such a difficult time. I can't imagine how it must be to really be losing your reasoning powers. The loss of self, the paranoia, it's such a horrible disease. Has he been evaluated by someone who specializes in AL?
Hey, I hope the sad fat kitty gets a good home while you are gone, but if not I know he would have one with you. You are a good soul. You just keep getting so many happy moments. The sister is visiting now and you have the "heinous family reunion trip with mother-dearest" coming shortly. When do you leave for that adventure. I know it's this month, but can't remember the date.
Book: I think your sister is not up to fighting with your dad. She sounds like she had some broken parts to her that have not healed. Being around your dad and his anger will be hard for her. I know she won't be a big help to you, but I understand why you feel she should be with you. I would feel the same way. I think she is lucky to be with you. It won't be easy for you, but she will be safe and with a roof over her head. You are a very good person, Book. Way more so than you can realize.
Meanwhile: My heart goes out to you with the coming anniversary of your husband's death and remembering that this current time, a year ago, was so very difficult. I love the sage idea. While you can be a skeptic, you also feel that it helped your husband. I think it would be a good thing to try. No doubt it would come from a loving place and that's a part of healing too. How is Omaha doing? Wow, it's really amazing to think that you have had your 30 year old horse from the time it was 4 months old. What a bond you two must have and what a commitment you made to the care of this sweet animal. And how fortunate this horse is to have had you as its devoted and loving friend. So many are not so fortunate. I don't even want to think of you being separated, so I will just say how grateful I am to know you are together and have been for 30 years.
Mame: We all love you and are glad you are with us. Wish I was closer.
Well, my dad has been gone for 2 weeks today. His passing brings up a lot of stuff from my mom's death too. She was so angry with me in the last months of her life. I remember my dad telling my brother, "It doesn't matter how much Maureen does for her, it's never good enough." I was surprised to learn my dad had said that as I was so use to going it alone. I never asked my dad about his comment, it was enough for me to know he had said this to my brother. I miss my dad and I miss my mom too.
Sending you all lots of love and wishing everyone some degree of comfort. Cat
I have asked this same question in the YOU thread. I'm trying to decide what to do.
I have a question. Father's hospital last year cost $31,000.00. Medicare did not cover 100%. His secondary insurance will not cover the balance (his attending physician at the hospital was NOT one of the private's doctors.) Unfortunately, the time he spent at the hospital, none of siblings or sil or bil thought to ask the doctor if she was under his 2ndary insurance. So...He now owes $2000.00. He absolutely refuses to pay for it.
My father absolutely refuses to pay for mom's monthly oxygen machine, her jevity (nutrient milk), sodium chloride (for suctioning and cleaning her trache), the trache cleaning kit (must be done daily, one kit per day $6-some a kit). Let’s just say, that my father absolutely refuses to pay HIS portion of mom’s supplies. I have been paying for these with HIS funds (my name is in my parents savings and checking account.) Now, the hospital wants their balance due of $2000.00. Father refuses. I’ve tried different ways to persuade him to pay it but..nada!
So, should I approach the hospital, speak to someone about setting up a monthly payment plan WITHOUT my father’s knowledge? I worry that they will add a late payment fee and then whatever fees they come up with. Or sic the collections agency to us. Of course, we can wait until the next tax refund and they will keep his tax refund. But, then dad will think the tax man cheated him and harass him, cuss him out, etc…. ….Any advice?
A day started without coffee, is a day shot to hell! I'm trying to finish up with dad and then it's off to get connor bug from school. I will check in later! hugs to all stormy
Stormy, I'm like you. Day just isn't right without a cup of coffee as soon as I get out of bed! When I get up early to check Mom, I sometimes sit up with a coffe then go back to bed. Hi Mame! Good to hear from you. Kuli, It's been a while! Are you still out there hiking? Meanwhile, My youngest sister has 2 horses, but doesn't get the chance to ride too much. She's had them both for over 10 years now and loves them dearly. Book, A couple years ago, Mom started accusing me of moving her furniture to the first floor apartment in our house, without her permission. She would get really angry. Couldn't remember that she and my dad had moved over 40 years ago! She would try to go upstairs every time I brought her home form daycare. She no longer remembers that her parents, sister and brother are long dead, or that my dad passed away over 30 years ago. He was only 54. When she asks about any of them, we just go along with her conversation or questions. as for your hospital bill, definitely talk to the finance people at the hospital and make arrangements for payments. As long as you send them something every month, they won't bother you. Cat, sleigh bed sounds interesting, but I don't think it would fit in my little 11'x11' bedroom. Old house, small rooms, and narrow hallways on the way in. Judy, I have 4 rescue cats here and an old cat coming by every day to eat. He belongs to neighbors that don't take care of him. I comb him and feed him and if they don't take him in for the cold weather, I may steal him! He needs a flea bath, his teeth cleaned and he has ear mites. He's so friendly and so old. He deserves to be treated with love and kindness for the few years he has left. My daughter and her husband also have 4 cats, 3 are rescues that they saved from being put down because no one wanted them and the vets could no longer hold them. All of our cats are house pets. They are not allowed out to roam. Oh yeah, there is also Mama kitty who is the mother to the 2 kittens I took in from the neighborhood. They were feral to a point, and I started feeding and playing with them. The female came willingly when she was 4 months old. 2 years later I lured in the little male and eventually caught him on the back porch in the dead of winter. Mama was eventually captured by a small business owner on the next street, and they had her fixed by the local animal shelter and released her back into the neighborhood. She sleep on our open front porch and has become very accepting of us, but is in no way ready to become a house cat. So she sleeps in a shelter on our front porch and my husband maintains hot water bottles and a heated disc for under her blankets. Somehow we have become a magnet for unwanted cats! Guess we have the word "Sucker" tattooed on our foreheads. And yes, we have lost many pets over the years. It never gets easy, but we are always grateful that they chose us to be with! Been a long day here. Mom was good today. We had a visit from her Eldercare case worker this afternoon, then she napped before supper. Tomorrow she is off to daycare, and I'm going to cover the pool, finally! Got dishes to do, then a bit of knitting and TV. Then hopefully, bed, earlier than usual! Hey Jen! Great talking to you the other day. Bobbie!!!!!!
Hey D yes it was good talking...went to store wore my new shirt. GOES GOOD WITH MY NOW RED HAIR...
Micro wave died and a drain pipe is leaking and the moron manager next door finally had some guys come and cut down the LIMB left on his shed and over the fence an gate. mom expects a bill she said she will just pay it as they are our trees....I said that the day it comes fallin down and she and ass brother shot me down like I was stupid....u hu
Here's one, and be glad this aint smellovision two very unwashed shoppers at store one had his pants around his middle ass and we was all treated to eight inches of saggy butt rack from one end of the store to the other...No not mentally ill think he enjoyed it, like I don't know passive aggressive I don't care issms...jezze like I don't get enough stench at home...wheres a lit cigarette when you need one!
Jen ~ ... don't have a fancy sleigh bed here but it's still a short hop over the hills to the Havana Room. You are ALWAYS welcome! Dog & cats endorse this invitation. Kuli!!! The trails await! Wineries nearby ... we could be lost for days. Would be located by the sound of laughter. Yes ~ Laughing still exists! Plus the pups know the rangers. We can hike ... but can't hide!
Deef, I'm a stray cat magnet as well. We live 8 miles from town, and I think a lot of people dump their unwanted animals out this way. Dogs don't last too long, but cats go feral. I've trapped most of mine in live traps, to get them to the vet to be fixed, and some shots. We have 6 regulars right now. Only 1 is tame enough to come inside, he showed up declawed. But, that's not why he gets to come in the house. He beats up all the other cats. He is such a trouble maker. He terrorizes the dogs as well. He is actually pretty sweet with people. Sleeps on my sisters bed most of the time. Getting old and fat. A friend of ours adopted a 10 year old Newfoundland from the animal shelter. He belonged to a 90 year old man that died. She realizes he won't be around for much longer, but he is a very sweet well behaved dog, and she has a kind heart. All of my horses are dear to me, but my 30 year old will always be my baby. I try to take him on a couple short rides every week. He is still sound, and likes to go. I know I'm biased, but I think he is super smart. He can untie any knot, open gates, he loves to steal things, especially if they are sticking out of a pocket. He will grab a handkerchief, and run off about 20 feet, than stop to see if your going to chase him. Hammers, pliers, hats, are all fair game. I can put small children on him, hand them the reins so that they think they are in control, but he just follows me around and ignores them. He will do that with adults, if they don't know how to ride. I've seen him refuse to budge with some people. He doesn't like a rider to bounce on his back either, can still buck like a bronc if he doesn't like someone. Sorry, I have so many Kid, stories (his nickname is Kid). Omaha is still doing great. In fact rode Omaha today for couple of hours. Bookworm, I agree with Deef, try to make even small payments to the hospital. Wouldn't hurt to call and talk to someone at the hospital. Also, I was wondering if you put a list of chores for your sister in writing? Like, have dinner ready, wash dishes, pick up trash. That's what people do for children, to help them learn how to do chores. Hang it on the frig or someplace hard to ignore? Just a suggestion. Step Dad has to have a CT scan, something showed up on his chest x-ray. Scary. His health is poor, he already has COPD, and diabetes. If you could say a prayer for him, he is sweet man. I don't want to watch him die with cancer.
Hey guys! Passed out in my chair and just woke up! Missed my show on TV and cats are waiting to be fed. Then I'm going to bed! Jen, you were in a store? should have handed the guy some deodorant or air freshner as he passed by! The plumber's crack, hmmmm, well...... Maybe you could have dropped a coin in his slot!!!!! EEWWWWWWW!!! Picture that! Sweet dreams everyone!!! Where's Bobbie when you need her?
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Deef – -we have a lot of spirits all over the island. Unfortunately, most of the islanders believe in them and hence, makes it stronger here. Quite prevalent. I will admit that I once stepped off the sidewalk to someone’s property, and I just wanted to turn and RUN. That place had something that was very bad (or maybe it didn’t like me.)
SWClancy- – your mother is a smart woman. She must know that it’s time to go to the NH. At least she’s not going there kicking and screaming. Have you had some quiet time with her and asked Why she thinks it’s time to go NH?
Lildeb – -trust me, I did that throat thing kicking and screaming (okay, more like, I paid my nephew to clean her trache every night for 2 years before they finally quit doing it.)
Stormy - -I have my quarterly blood test to do (was suppose to be on September but never got around to doing it.) So I will do that this Saturday. When the clinic calls me to schedule a follow-up visit due to the blood test, I will let the doctor know. He will just tell me: Exercise, exercise, exercise. That is his solution to my whole medical problems for years now. ..I’m still working on it… The Dead room is the one that I always feel unwanted in there (sis is moving in here). The scary room (the boys) is just plain scary – this is the room that sis would “talk” to them. My niece (age 21) refuses to go thru that room. She says it just plain scares her. Ever since father had his stroke, both rooms have now felt “normal.” When I mentioned this to my nephew-who-sees, he said that the house spirits now accept me as “the head of the house.” So, now the whole house welcomes me. Ugh!! As long as they don’t TALK, or MOVE OBJECTS or anything that is NOT normal, I’m fine. (shivering here)….
Cat – I’m glad that you’ve had a great day today. ;) ….And I’m also glad that Stormy’s posting here.
Thanks cat and book! Love you girls. Gotta run now. Will talk later. Hugs stormy
Guess I'll do the apple pies tomorrow. Mom would be reaching into everything and making a mess. It's cold here right now. Was in the 30's when I got up. But at least we are not using the furnaces yet.
Suctioning!!! GAG!!! That would send me right over the top! I can clean shit all day long, but anything out of Mom's mouth gags me to no end. She threw up a couple times in the last 2 years and I was alone with her. Nearly did me in for good. Never could deal with mouth stuff! If I see some man spit on the street, I gag! Some mornings I have trouble with Mom's dentures and have to leave them out until her stomach settles. You ladies are amazing for doing what you do! Mom's skin is perfect and she has had no problems with bed sores. She had a few stitches from falls a couple times on her chin and the back of her hand for a skin tear. Of course they didn't last long because she picked at them until they were gone. They used glue, but I told them to stitch to because of her constant picking.
Stormy, you have your hands full but seem to manage everything and still be a great mom. Here is my fritter recipe!
2-3 apples cut in quarters, peel and slice into 1/4" slices
Batter
1 1/3 cups flour
2 tablsp sugar
2 teasp baking powder
1/4 teasp salt
1 egg
2/3 cup milk
whisk together dry ingredients then add egg and milk and whisk until smooth. If too thick, add a bit of milk. Coat apple slices and deep fry in heated Crisco. Test 1 slice, if it floats to top, crisco is ready. Let one side brown then turn to cook other side. Drain on paper towels. Roll in sugar or cinnamon and sugar before you eat. Good plain too! Enjoy
Oops! Mom is stirring and I still have to fill her pill box for the week. Hope you all have a quiet day!
Mom is 103, a healthy 103. She climbs the stairs to her room, and walks with a walker. I was a Parent Education teacher, teaching young mother about parenting. Now I am home with Mom. I can leave her for a few hours in the daytime, she is scared to be home alone at nite. I am going crazy. She is very depressive, and it's hard for me to deal with that. My husband is great, but he has work, and I have Mom. I feel very isolated and lonely. Thanks for listening. I need to go check on my kitty. Rena
My father in law just turned 102 in July and is still living alone and doing most things for himself. It so great when they can be that old and still have their minds.He has amazing stories to tell about all he has seen and done in his life.
I wish my husband had work! He was let go from his job in Feb. of 2011 when a new company took over the business he worked for for many years. He will be 64 this month, so getting a job is not really an option. He just started collecting Social Security when his unemployment ran out. I am never alone and going crazy listening to his voice 24/7. He calls himself retired and pretty much doesn't do a whole heck of a lot to help out here. I keep threatening to run away from home!!! At this point I'm not sure what's worse, having him home and underfoot all the time, or taking care of Mom for the last 5 years!
There are lots of good people here and it's a great place to vent and talk and trade gross stories! I've been a part of this thread for about 3 years and am just get back into the swing of things. I was absent for a while and recharging myself. Glad you have decided to join the crew!
Talk to us... I am so sorry about your cat. I have as cat and just about everyone here has an animal or 2 or more. Like DEEF!!
Just write what you are feeling. Vent and live. Rant and live.
When I had to put my cat to sleep in the 80's, I freaked out and tried to have her stuffed. I am not kidding, my grief was so bad I didn't want to let her go. I called all over and found a taxidermist that worked with pets, since not all of them do, and he was doing what was then a new thing called 'freeze dry'. He told me to get her in the freezer fast and so I picked her up from the vet in an Abbott Pharmaceutical box and popped her into the freezer on top of the fridge. Under a trout.
Figured she'd like that.
I worked through my grief and a few months later was able to bury her. Even with all of that I still can't imagine your pain and how isolated you must feel.
This is a great website and this is a wonderful group of people here.
Glad you have your husband and I hope he is good comfort for you tonight when your pain over your kitty's loss will be so hard felt.
Rainbow Bridge time sweet reenie. I believe we'll see them again.
DEEF!! I dunno, just like saying: DEEF!!
Have you tried an oven timer with your husband?
Set for 15 minutes and announce Quiet Time.
Hey quit laughin! It might work!
Back it up with the Texas Flyswatter.
Welcome to new folks and all folks and I spoke to Ted this am and he is doing better and still handles his issues with courage. He is an inspiration.
It is so good to read everyone's story and see the journey that everyone is on. We know that we are not alone, from an amazing woman in the South Pacific to incredible women in the Pacific Northwest and all through the States and up into New England and all the way down to Florida. From Ireland and from Italy, beautiful warrior women have hung out on this thread and on this site. We are not alone.
Ted and Cuz, you are now honorary warrior women. It's like being 'one of the guys' but better.
Love you guys way more than you'll ever know.
Wonder who will get Boat Time?
lovbob
Wow, a sleigh bed at a garage sale! Would definitely like to see the neighborhood you live in. Around here we see "Free" signs on used furniture in front yards. My bedroom set is 40 years old. Bought it when we got married. The mattress and box spring are hand-me-downs from my younger sister. My original one was stuffed with old towels so the springs didn't stab me in the butt. The used one has now been on my bed for 15 years and needs to be replaced. Husband would like a Tempurpedic, like that's gonna happen any time soon! Sounds like a good deal on the new bed. Guess one can only dream! My living room set has it's fifth cover set as we bought that in 1979. I'm not complaining though. I'm pretty happy with what I do have and grateful that in these hard times I still have my possessions and a place to live. I know so many that have so much less and have had to sell their treasures just to survive. When the grocery store has a buy 1 get 2 free sale, I stock up on what I need and give the 2 free to my friends who are less fortunate.
It's quite obvious to me that the government is not concerned about the millions of citizens who are doing without these days. I guess it's up to us to help each other get through these bad economic times.
Sorry! Got off on a tangent after just talking with another friend who is losing their home to one of the big ass banks!
Mom has behaved very well today and is eating when I feed her. It's almost time for supper, so I have to cook something for her and get her ready for bed. Then I can deal with our meal.
On a gross note, hehe! Took her to the bathroom to pee and ended up helping her get a huge BM out! She does not have the know how to do it herself anymore and most times it just falls out without her even knowing. This time she needed a bit of help. That's my gross story for the day, I hope!!! The night is young!!!!!
Super weather here in the NW. Wish I could host you all! Should have sent the Havana bed home with you Deef ~
Hope y'all are doing the best possible ...
Bobbie, until I read about your grieving over your cat and how you had her frozen for the taxidermist I thought I was the most pathetic griever over pets, hah! I didn't know whether to cry or laugh so I did both when I read those comments of yours. Once we lost a lop eared bunny (danny buck) and I was out with a flashlight sobbing for hours looking under parked cars crying his name. I like you, was really pathetic and I mean that in a good way.xoxo
Thanks everyone for the good wishes for me on my trip to CA, like Deef said it is so much work getting ready to go. Every time I get that panicky feeling starting to come over me I just take a few breaths and tell myself I am doing good and will get it all done in time. I'm talking to myself now! lol Deef, My husbands working 16 hrs a day for the last couple of weeks and if he didn't work out of the home/garage I would be going really nuts. This way I at least get to see him. There have been days though that he drives me nuts too. Everyone have a nice night... cross them fingers, :) Love Cricket
I have the ashes of two dogs. My sweet Kate who was my soul mate and my Sky who was the total opposite of Kate, but had a lot of me in her too. When hubby and I get out of the crematorium we want our ashes mixed with our dogs ashes and put to rest someplace, hopefully not the nearest dumpster. Come to think of it, I should have a talk with my son about that and make sure he understands that I will haunt him forever if he doesn't follow through. He'll believe it, because he knows me. We currently have 2 dogs and they'll be going with us too. Of course, I'm assuming we will outlive them.
Here's a curious thought. When we get to a certain age, we have to consider if we take on another pet, because we might not be able to live long enough to take care of them to the end of their lives. This makes me sad because I can't imagine not having a dog or a cat. There is something so vulnerable and validating about the way we love them and they love us. My husband says when our current dogs are gone, we are not going to have any more pets. We will be 64 and 65 next year and Mattie will be 5 this Nov. and Marcus was 6 this past June. So maybe that makes sense, but it feels sad. Of course, there are always older pets that need homes. I've had my share of rescues and they know and are so grateful for the kindness, security and love you give them. Our Marcus is a rescue, so was Sky. So little does hubby know, but I have a plan B.
Bobbie, never thought of having a pet stuffed. Glad your freezer got you through that decision. (However, I do have some locks of Kate's fur.) My brother-in-law always told his dad that he was going to have him stuffed so he could take him with him hunting. Wanted to record lots of his expressions and, kind of like a Chatty Kathy, just pull the string and he talks. My husband is not a hunter, so the idea didn't really catch hold with him.
I will confess, that as much as I love my husband, having him under foot sometimes gets to me. I'm grateful he has a part time job. When I am home alone it is just a nice experience. Having said that, I would never want to be without him.
Love to all you loving and crazy women. You are just my perfect cup of tea. Cat
Thanks Kuli n sorry you r dealing with the aftermath of the loss of your dad. Certain times do make it harder. I do hope u r able to find peace within in your heart n remember he is at a better place.
Tomorrow, will be the date when I lost my mom at n early age of 56. She was an alcoholic n had depression issues but she was still my mom. I cannot say it was all bad but a lot was yet she was my mom n she did the best she could by partly the way she was raised as a child. I know she is much happier where she is at right now. I hope u see n feel the same for you dad too.
Deef, your apple fritters sound so good. Wonder if it would work to bake them instead of frying?
Judy, your brother must be very special. Kuli, glad your doing better, so good to hear from you. My husband will be gone a year next month, and it has been weighing on my mind a lot lately. It was about this time last year that he got really bad. Didn't think it would be so hard. sigh. Maybe I can get Indio to do a smudging ceremony. I am a terrible skeptic, but when my husband was in terrible pain, Indio would smudge him, and the pain went away.
OK, I'm sure I've forgotten people, so sorry. But, getting late, and I need to get to bed. I did have a lovely time with the horses yesterday. Beautiful fall weather, lots of birds migrating through the area. Even ducks. Saw a whitetail deer with twin fawns.
Today we noticed Marcus had a little cut on the tip of his ear. We just noticed it because there was a bump there where the blood had dried so we noticed it when we were petting him. You can't see anything because the tips of his ears have dark fur. Anyway, I got a warm wet cloth and got the blood off, still there is a ridge there and I don't know if it is where the cut is starting to heal or what. I'm worried about possibly a thorn. Can't imagine where he would get one, but not ruling that out just yet. I'm probably over thinking this, but I'll watch it for a couple of days and call the vet if I can't be sure.
Anyway, the point of this long winded epistle is that Marcus just followed me around all day today. He comes and lays by my chair in the office and stares at me with love in his eyes. Mattie always does this, but Marcus is the self-appointed guard dog, so he likes to be outside or stationed at the windows when not napping on the couch. It's just so touching to see them grateful that you noticed a little boo boo and fussed over it. They just know that you love them and they repay it ten fold.
I guess I would never want to have to give up a pet I owned, due to old age or illness, and not be certain that it would get at least as much love as it got in my home. My heart breaks for elderly people who find themselves in that position.
Cat
Cat, I just saw an 8 year old cat in the rescue kennels at Petsmart tonight when I was on a cricket run for the lizard (Sorry, Cricket, but Spike was getting bored with mealworms.). I thought, now who is going to adopt this overweight (He's obviously been a very overfed guy) 8 year old cat? If he's still there when I get back from this heinous family reunion trip with mother-dearest, I think it will have to be me. His info paper said his elderly owner died. Poor, sad, fatcat.
My dad has been nuttier than usual. A few days ago, he accused my nephew of stealing a ham! OMG! A ham? Really? He swore that my nephew hid the ham on the patio or in the yard. Oh, brother. We showed him the ham in the freezer, but Dad still gave everyone the hairy eyeball, thinking we were the nuts. Today, he was only out of bed for less than 2 hours. I don't know what to think.
Hey, I hope the sad fat kitty gets a good home while you are gone, but if not I know he would have one with you. You are a good soul. You just keep getting so many happy moments. The sister is visiting now and you have the "heinous family reunion trip with mother-dearest" coming shortly. When do you leave for that adventure. I know it's this month, but can't remember the date.
Book: I think your sister is not up to fighting with your dad. She sounds like she had some broken parts to her that have not healed. Being around your dad and his anger will be hard for her. I know she won't be a big help to you, but I understand why you feel she should be with you. I would feel the same way. I think she is lucky to be with you. It won't be easy for you, but she will be safe and with a roof over her head. You are a very good person, Book. Way more so than you can realize.
Meanwhile: My heart goes out to you with the coming anniversary of your husband's death and remembering that this current time, a year ago, was so very difficult. I love the sage idea. While you can be a skeptic, you also feel that it helped your husband. I think it would be a good thing to try. No doubt it would come from a loving place and that's a part of healing too. How is Omaha doing? Wow, it's really amazing to think that you have had your 30 year old horse from the time it was 4 months old. What a bond you two must have and what a commitment you made to the care of this sweet animal. And how fortunate this horse is to have had you as its devoted and loving friend. So many are not so fortunate. I don't even want to think of you being separated, so I will just say how grateful I am to know you are together and have been for 30 years.
Mame: We all love you and are glad you are with us. Wish I was closer.
Well, my dad has been gone for 2 weeks today. His passing brings up a lot of stuff from my mom's death too. She was so angry with me in the last months of her life. I remember my dad telling my brother, "It doesn't matter how much Maureen does for her, it's never good enough." I was surprised to learn my dad had said that as I was so use to going it alone. I never asked my dad about his comment, it was enough for me to know he had said this to my brother. I miss my dad and I miss my mom too.
Sending you all lots of love and wishing everyone some degree of comfort. Cat
I have a question. Father's hospital last year cost $31,000.00. Medicare did not cover 100%. His secondary insurance will not cover the balance (his attending physician at the hospital was NOT one of the private's doctors.) Unfortunately, the time he spent at the hospital, none of siblings or sil or bil thought to ask the doctor if she was under his 2ndary insurance. So...He now owes $2000.00. He absolutely refuses to pay for it.
My father absolutely refuses to pay for mom's monthly oxygen machine, her jevity (nutrient milk), sodium chloride (for suctioning and cleaning her trache), the trache cleaning kit (must be done daily, one kit per day $6-some a kit). Let’s just say, that my father absolutely refuses to pay HIS portion of mom’s supplies. I have been paying for these with HIS funds (my name is in my parents savings and checking account.) Now, the hospital wants their balance due of $2000.00. Father refuses. I’ve tried different ways to persuade him to pay it but..nada!
So, should I approach the hospital, speak to someone about setting up a monthly payment plan WITHOUT my father’s knowledge? I worry that they will add a late payment fee and then whatever fees they come up with. Or sic the collections agency to us. Of course, we can wait until the next tax refund and they will keep his tax refund. But, then dad will think the tax man cheated him and harass him, cuss him out, etc….
….Any advice?
Hi Mame! Good to hear from you. Kuli, It's been a while! Are you still out there hiking?
Meanwhile, My youngest sister has 2 horses, but doesn't get the chance to ride too much. She's had them both for over 10 years now and loves them dearly.
Book, A couple years ago, Mom started accusing me of moving her furniture to the first floor apartment in our house, without her permission. She would get really angry. Couldn't remember that she and my dad had moved over 40 years ago! She would try to go upstairs every time I brought her home form daycare. She no longer remembers that her parents, sister and brother are long dead, or that my dad passed away over 30 years ago. He was only 54. When she asks about any of them, we just go along with her conversation or questions. as for your hospital bill, definitely talk to the finance people at the hospital and make arrangements for payments. As long as you send them something every month, they won't bother you.
Cat, sleigh bed sounds interesting, but I don't think it would fit in my little 11'x11' bedroom. Old house, small rooms, and narrow hallways on the way in.
Judy, I have 4 rescue cats here and an old cat coming by every day to eat. He belongs to neighbors that don't take care of him. I comb him and feed him and if they don't take him in for the cold weather, I may steal him! He needs a flea bath, his teeth cleaned and he has ear mites. He's so friendly and so old. He deserves to be treated with love and kindness for the few years he has left. My daughter and her husband also have 4 cats, 3 are rescues that they saved from being put down because no one wanted them and the vets could no longer hold them. All of our cats are house pets. They are not allowed out to roam. Oh yeah, there is also Mama kitty who is the mother to the 2 kittens I took in from the neighborhood. They were feral to a point, and I started feeding and playing with them. The female came willingly when she was 4 months old. 2 years later I lured in the little male and eventually caught him on the back porch in the dead of winter. Mama was eventually captured by a small business owner on the next street, and they had her fixed by the local animal shelter and released her back into the neighborhood. She sleep on our open front porch and has become very accepting of us, but is in no way ready to become a house cat. So she sleeps in a shelter on our front porch and my husband maintains hot water bottles and a heated disc for under her blankets. Somehow we have become a magnet for unwanted cats! Guess we have the word "Sucker" tattooed on our foreheads.
And yes, we have lost many pets over the years. It never gets easy, but we are always grateful that they chose us to be with!
Been a long day here. Mom was good today. We had a visit from her Eldercare case worker this afternoon, then she napped before supper. Tomorrow she is off to daycare, and I'm going to cover the pool, finally!
Got dishes to do, then a bit of knitting and TV. Then hopefully, bed, earlier than usual!
Hey Jen! Great talking to you the other day.
Bobbie!!!!!!
Micro wave died and a drain pipe is leaking and the moron manager next door finally had some guys come and cut down the LIMB left on his shed and over the fence an gate. mom expects a bill she said she will just pay it as they are our trees....I said that the day it comes fallin down and she and ass brother shot me down like I was stupid....u hu
Here's one, and be glad this aint smellovision two very unwashed shoppers at store one had his pants around his middle ass and we was all treated to eight inches of saggy butt rack from one end of the store to the other...No not mentally ill think he enjoyed it, like I don't know passive aggressive I don't care issms...jezze like I don't get enough stench at home...wheres a lit cigarette when you need one!
... don't have a fancy sleigh bed here but it's still a short hop over the hills to the Havana Room. You are ALWAYS welcome! Dog & cats endorse this invitation.
Kuli!!! The trails await! Wineries nearby ... we could be lost for days. Would be located by the sound of laughter. Yes ~ Laughing still exists!
Plus the pups know the rangers. We can hike ... but can't hide!
Cheers everyone ~
Rip&Pets sans Sir
A friend of ours adopted a 10 year old Newfoundland from the animal shelter. He belonged to a 90 year old man that died. She realizes he won't be around for much longer, but he is a very sweet well behaved dog, and she has a kind heart.
All of my horses are dear to me, but my 30 year old will always be my baby. I try to take him on a couple short rides every week. He is still sound, and likes to go. I know I'm biased, but I think he is super smart. He can untie any knot, open gates, he loves to steal things, especially if they are sticking out of a pocket. He will grab a handkerchief, and run off about 20 feet, than stop to see if your going to chase him. Hammers, pliers, hats, are all fair game. I can put small children on him, hand them the reins so that they think they are in control, but he just follows me around and ignores them. He will do that with adults, if they don't know how to ride. I've seen him refuse to budge with some people. He doesn't like a rider to bounce on his back either, can still buck like a bronc if he doesn't like someone. Sorry, I have so many Kid, stories (his nickname is Kid). Omaha is still doing great. In fact rode Omaha today for couple of hours.
Bookworm, I agree with Deef, try to make even small payments to the hospital. Wouldn't hurt to call and talk to someone at the hospital. Also, I was wondering if you put a list of chores for your sister in writing? Like, have dinner ready, wash dishes, pick up trash. That's what people do for children, to help them learn how to do chores. Hang it on the frig or someplace hard to ignore? Just a suggestion.
Step Dad has to have a CT scan, something showed up on his chest x-ray. Scary. His health is poor, he already has COPD, and diabetes. If you could say a prayer for him, he is sweet man. I don't want to watch him die with cancer.
Jen, you were in a store? should have handed the guy some deodorant or air freshner as he passed by! The plumber's crack, hmmmm, well...... Maybe you could have dropped a coin in his slot!!!!! EEWWWWWWW!!! Picture that! Sweet dreams everyone!!!
Where's Bobbie when you need her?