Grossed out and need to vent—I just caught Mom using my toothbrush to comb her hair!

Jen: I have waited to respond to your situation and your gut retching post. When I read it , the night you posted, I just turned off my computer and went to bed. I prayed for you and I prayed that I would have some capacity to respond to your post in a way that would not offend you or feel I was judging what you may or may not do to make progress in your life.

When I read your post, I was so angry. You explained more than I had realized and I was just overwhelmed I didn't want my anger at those who have hurt you to dominate my response to you, so I just had to stop.

I'm going to do the best I can to say what I feel about your situation. It may leave something to be desired, but it's a start. Please bear with me and I hope you will listen in a way that reaches you.

First of all, you can't expect your brother or anyone in your household to respond to you in a way that makes total sense to you or takes into account your feeling as a victim. They are all so very damaged and lacking in their ability to reach you.

I think your brother is a victim too, your mother is a victim too,(and an enabler). I can't imagine what fart pants is, other than an abuser, and God only knows what your dad was. An abuser for sure.

So how can you look at your mom or brother and expect them to come to you and discuss the issues that have taken up your and there lives and expect it to make complete sense or to be delivered in a way that appeals to you. They are so damaged and trying to make their way. They are not capable of doing more than grab at some sanity and trying to fumble at making amends.

I want to correct one thing, I don't put your mom in the category of trying to make amends. I will leave your brother there, but not her.

Jen, if your mom married such an abusive man who tormented his children, don't you think that she was also tormented? Don't you think FP sexually abused your mom. That seems like a no brainier to me. Your mom relates more to the abusers than she does to the victims. You are a victim. Are you hearing what I am saying. Your mom caters to those who abuse. It's more important to her to get their approval than it is to protect other victims. She wants you to follow her lead, just keep catering to the abusers.

So far, the one person in your family who has taken steps to keep from going over the edge and tries to make amends is your brother. I realize he does not do it correctly to give you peace, but at least he is trying to say I did wrong and I was abused too. He has told his wife about all of this. That's a huge confession and may wives would walk away from such a twisted tail. Would they want their child to be in a household with a man who had his past. There's a big risk at sharing all he has shared.

Jen, you have to make some decisions. You can spend the rest of your life, living with your fucking grandfather and listing to your mom and trying to decide if you are a burden to her or not. That makes me sick, because she is a burden to you and not the other way around.

How can you get better when you live among those who abused you and those (your mom) who let it happen and don't want to acknowledge their role in the life you have endured.

There have to be places you can go. I'm not going to go into the possibilities, because you will probably say, "No, can't do that." So I will just say, if you want to make a meaningful change, let us know and we will find a way.

The choice is yours. I truly hope you will say yes to a better future, rather than, NO, I'll just continue to live this way. Ultimately, the choice is yours.

Sending you love and white light. I'm hoping you are ready to do something different. What have you got to lose????

Cat

Book: Jen does not have a problem remembering what happened to her. That's the difference between Jen and you. Jen remembers everything. I appreciate your comments about little steps, but Jen's Thanksgiving was not a little step. It was a brother telling her about abuse and asking her to tell him everything he did to her. It's a bit different from your experience although I appreciate your empathy to what Jen has been through.

And Cat, I don't give a damn that Jen's brother is trying to undo what he did or is sorry or whatever. If he was seriously repentant for what he did, he would NOT have confronted Jen in front of everyone! That is very hurtful. He raped her and now he did it again - this time in front of others. He is a jerk!! And I hope Jen does NOT help him in his quest to QUENCH or ERASE his SINS. I don't give a damn that he was abused! I was abused. Did I go and abuse another person? There are millions of people out there who have been abused. They do not go out there and kill people and then say, "Oh,I had a very bad childhood. My parents did such awful things to me. And that is why I raped and killed so many women." No, Cat, it does NOT WORK THAT WAY!! Her brother can go rot in hell. He has just repeated his sin of raping her again - but this time in front of Their Mother and Grandfather?! He's damn grandstanding! And that is all I'm going to say on this subject.

Jen, I apologize for doing this statement for all to see. But, I need to defend you and me - and our stand on why we are where we are in life. HUGS to you, Jen!!! book

Book, Maybe you need to quit talking. Like shut your mouth for a while. It isn't all about you. You aren't helping anyone.

I'm truly sorry Jen and all for thinking that Jen's situation is only about me. I apologize for getting so emotional. Jen, I'm so sorry. You all take care, okay? Good bye.

And Cat you stepped on toes here.... I find what you are saying very insensitive,and Book or anyone else on this sight can say anything they choose, you certainly do!!!!!

I think, perhaps, that Cat was trying to keep the focus on Jen and maybe felt under attack in Book's previous comment with the capital letters.

I think perhaps, that Book has the right to post whatever is going on with her also, and how she feels about things... and that trying to control a post is like damning up the ocean.

We can argue about this all night, but I'm going to bed. Its not worth my time.

I didn't know we were arguing... hmmmmm... so exchanging ideas seperate from you and Cat is arguing... interesting...

Book has the right to say anything she wants to say. So do I, Ladee, and so do you. Too bad it has to be and Jen's expense. Hope you both feel better now. You and Book need to get off your high horse and understand that the world does not revolve around the two of you. I am so sick of this shit.

Jen: What I said, I meant with my heart in my throat. That's all I can offer you. You have choices and decisions to make. They are your decisions, based on your life, your needs and your courage,

I wish you well and all the best. You deserve it and don't let this crap between Book, LADEE and I distract you. You are the one who counts. What you are willing to hear makes all the difference. I'm not going to say anymore. Hopefully, you understood my point. Take it or leave it. Cat

Meanwhile, back on the boat.......

I love all you guys.

We are all active caregivers or are recovering from caregiving. Knowing Jen's circumstances makes us upset because we love her so we say what's on our hearts.

Jen, we get passionate and just love you and want what will make you better.

Personally, I found it interesting to hear everyone's point of view and thought everyone had great points.

What I would like to see is a classic rescue:

Chinook helicopter with 5 guys dressed in night raid stuff dropping down on ropes.

2 black Escalades pull up and 4 more guys get out, 2 from each car.

Everybody hits the house and Jen is amazed and grabs the dog.

3 of the guys are caregivers and they take over and tuck mom and fp into bed.

The caregivers stay and do all the work and one of them is a genie with a lamp.

By the time mom and fp wake up, Jen and the dog are across the country in a resort hotel with Deef in the next suite and Bob and the boat docked at the hotel marina.

Everybody from here that wants to be there has a room. We have a convention.

Dr Phil is there; we have him for the week and he's going to fix everything.

Remember to breathe.

lovbob

Once more, our captain takes control of steering the boat! By the way, I want a room there too. Love to all, Kuli

Jen, you have an army behind you! We may not all agree about something, but we are all fiercly protective of anyone that is part of the crew. Book, if you need to take a break from the subject, I understand, but please don't give up the GO thread. Before you know it we will be back to our gross poop stories. Bobbie, can the boat make it to Tahiti where Jen and I plan to escape to?
It's ssdd here. Mom is her usual negative self. I'm my usual tired self after being awakened 5 times through the night. I woke up congested again. It's one step forward and two steps back. I managed to purchase a new range yesterday but it won't be delivered until December 4th. So in the mean time it is microwave, toaster oven or bbq to cook. Tonight is bean soup in the crock pot.
Have a good night all and I hope this week will be better for us all. Love ya!

Bobbie: I want a room there too and sign me up with Dr. Phil.

Hey, everyone- Well, Connor's party went well, he had a good time and he got alot of nice toys, but i am tired. I am sorry there is conflict on the thread, I hope everything will get resolved between everyone. Hugs and prayers for everyone! Love, Stormy

Geez Louise!!!! What the F@ck ladies??!!!
Jen, it was good talking to you as always and I'm very proud of you for holding your own on Thanksgiving. I have no experience in what you have been through, so I won't offer an opinion on the subject or how you live your life. From what I have learned about you in the past 3 or more years, I know you are a very strong, smart, and caring person and I am so glad to call you friend!
I know how much you love X-mas and hope you can start decorating right away! as for the leftovers, you snooze, you lose!!!!
As for all the opinions thrown your way, take what you will from them and move on as best you can. You have lots of supporters here and if, I mean IF, you are ready to make a change, we will be here for you. If you are not ready , we'll still be here for you. It's always easy to tell someone else how to live their life when we are not in their shoes, but remember it is your life and you need to do what is best for you. Love you Jen!
Bobbie!!!! I want to be the first one off that Chinook!!!
Diane, What can I say! I know, easy for me to say, but forget about the sibs!!! None of mine showed up or even called to ask about Mom all weekend. Oops! I lied! My sister showed up on her lunch hour on Friday, but she was looking for leftovers. Mentioned twice that she didn't get any from where she had dinner. Well, she didn't get any from me either!!!
Sorry you aren't getting any sleep. Do you have any seroquel left? Give mom 2 before bedtime, just make sure she is in bed before or right after. Guaranteed she will knock off for the night! I know she can't take them during the day, neither can my Mom. Make her too groggy, but sure help her sleep at night, and she gets up well rested the next morning. Please!!!! Try them at night so you can get some relief. At this point they can't hurt!
Stormy, Hope Connor had a great B'day party!
Meanwhile, Mame, Judy, Lildeb, hope you all had a good holiday!
Cat, Nothing like a casino buffet!
Book, I don't think your opinion was too strong. You were talking from the heart and from past experience. It's obvious that your feelings about Jen's situation are very real.
Hey Ladee!
Well, turkey day was quiet here for a change. Merry's family did dinner on Friday, so she sat with Mom while we had dinner upstairs with my daughter, sil, and 2 cousins. They have dinner with us every year, because they don't like the rest of my family either! we had way too much food for 6 people, especially since none of us eat like we used too!
I had my first craft show on Saturday and overdid it for the last 2 weeks and wore myself out. Keep forgetting I'm not 25 anymore! I didn't make a lot of $$, but had a nice time talking to people and actually talked to 4 different people that I hadn't seen in years. That was nice! I was in bed early last night and got up not feeling well this morning. After Merry got here I went back to bed for a couple hours and felt much better. I have one more show this Saturday, but will not wear myself out this week. Got too much to do after for the holiday.
Okay, need to get the trash together for the morning pick-up. Hope everyone has a quiet night, and come back tomorrow to get back to the business of supporting each other!

In my defense, I do not always talk about me for the sake of talking about me. I bring up my background all the time so that you may be able to understand. When I first started posting here, I thought you all were such professional handlers of stress. When I see new posters, I bring up my background so that THEY know that I have been there, and that I know how difficult caregiving is.

If you all look at my comments to you, I have rarely gave vague impersonal comments. I always do my best to put my place in yours so that my comment is a personal one.

When I had my very first therapist, he was cut and dry – this and this and this. I had to ask several times for examples of this and this and this. The monthly caregiving I attend last Saturday, was also a guest speaker therapist on handling stress management. Every single point she made, she gave examples of HER caregiving experiences. We didn’t even have to ask for examples. I found myself nodding through-out her talk. I wrote notes, and also her examples so that I can recall later on, “Oh yeah, I remember that..” I thought she was a very excellent therapist (unfortunately, she is not covered under my insurance.) Not once, as she applied her experiences to each point did I think, “She is always thinking of herself.” I was thinking that she UNDERSTOOD us and KNEW what we were going through.

As I write this, I’m getting heart palpitation. It's too stressful for me to post here.

I have that I will no longer be posting on this site anymore. I have been searching online for another caregiving group.

And I say this from my heart, that you all were growing in my heart. I literally stopped emailing to my siblings in June when I found this site. (I know because I checked the last time I emailed to them.) It's because you all became my adoptive family. Some of you, also were able to worm your way into my heart. So, I can honestly say, that I will really, really miss you all.

Jen - I will always worry about you and will be thinking of you. Remember, Jen, Baby Steps!!! Sincerely ,book

Hello, ladies (and a few gentlemen). Long time no comment. Spent Thanksgiving with DH, FIL, crazy useless SIL, and assorted in-laws of SIL's daughter (very nice, kind people). Yesterday, grand-nephew's 1st birthday party, at his grandparents' house, where baby's great grandfather (my FIL) proceeded to soil his pants, yet again. But DH says FIL "doesn't want" to wear Depends, so apparently that settles it. Happy holidays, all!

Book, don't leave! I'm so sorry you feel it necessary to leave us because of one person's inability to really see what we are trying to achieve here. You are not the offensive one and always try to help others.
Cat, I think it's time you realize that you can't always be the focus of this thread. I feel you should apologize to both Book and Jen for your inappropriate comments. Since day one I have felt that you like to be front and center and have caused dissension among long time posters to turn the focus on you. It's time to change your tone and try to help, not destroy what we are trying to accomplish here.

Amen

Hey bookworm. I am just a reader of GO and as you already know I am a cousin of bobbie our captain. Please stay with us because of you advise we all learn what goes on in the minds of caregivers. It is something a normal person or non caregiver has no clue of what goes on. We see people,hear them talk and through comments like yours try to help people that are struggling in their own ways with no one to help them. Don't give up on us please. We need your help. Hugs and luv to you.
luvCuz

Book, you've always been kind to me. You, I have felt, have talked from the heart and experience making me feel welcome and a genuine concern for my predicament. I don't want to see you go. I have only been on this site for a little over a month. Although I no longer care for my mom, nor do I have the possibility of ever seeing her again because of my bro, you have helped me to look at me as being someone of importance. For many years I have let my family make me believe I was never good enough or my life wasn't as important as theirs. I stood up to my bro and got abused again along with my mom by us not being able to see/talk to one another. I ask that you don't leave. Maybe consider a break, but do not leave. There is a little "click" on here but it's people tha have been posting for along time and know one another well. I just started posting and am no longer a current caregiver. I weigh my options. This site would have helped me had I known about it for the time I took care of my mom but I had no access to a computer. Still, there are a lot of excellent ideas, opinions, advice and warm and caring hearts. People do care about you Book, and you are NOT selfish.

Thanks for your comments Yogi and Cuz.

Jen here please don't lets all get in a fight and disappear I am sorry i brought the crap up. I don't want anyone here to be hurt by it all. This stuff really is poison.

Hey deef was good talking to you today. Gives me a chance to see there are people out there who see the insanity in my life, understand it or think I am a total morn to not move out on my own but it is enough that you all see and hear and care. please don't anyone disappear becasue of me. i understand if you need to pull back to feel safe. maybe my stuff was too off topic to be posted really bobbie thread was about gross stuff and care giving. this is like intensive abuse work here.

We drove past a sign that said literally "boat angle". about donating boats for charity. I thought of bobbie.

Thank you all for your advice and support it is important to me to have outside perspective whether it is stuff I will do or can do or not. it is good to read it. To know other people look at my situation and think This is unlivable.
It didn't bother me what anyone said, only that it seemed to make a rift between others. I hate to be the cause of that. please everyone take little time and think about it. it may feel different in a while...?

i think cat got that right, my mom really has sided with the abusers and is unable to turn it off. I would not be surprised if she was abused herself but that is her life and she shares NOTHING. She never has. I can see as there being a whole history to her there and she is determined to take care of Daddde no matter what.

Bookworm please don't go. you did not come on too strong. I have lie no outside view here and the passion other s express helps me see the insanity of my life, if I can take the advice I do if I can't I am still grateful to have it.

Jen Like I said to book as a non caregiver you have gave me so much inspiration thru reading what you have gone through that I can pass information to people like my wife's cousin whose parents are both starting to show signs of alzhimers and dementia and have no clue on what is going to happen later on down the road. I have learned so much from you gals who deal with it 24/7. I thank everyone for letting me be a part of this support group. Hugs to you also.
luvCuz

Thanks cuz. I think I truly am number 7? what not to do eh? I don't want anyone to disappear I am not sure what all happened...

Jen, No fighting here! Just want Book to not leave. We want you to vent here to your friends. Don't ever apologize for sharing. A lot of us have had very sheltered lives compared to many of you. I know reading these gut wrenching posts have opened my eyes up to a very different world from what I know and I don't think making mean comments to people is helping anyone here.
I'm not trying to make trouble for anyone, just want everyone to feel safe when discussing their problems.

Jen your a saint. I agree,. everyone wants to help. But, there is so little anyone can do, it makes people frustrated. I hope nobody leaves, everyone brings something special to the group. I feel a little guilty saying I had a miraculous Thanksgiving. My mother didn't complain once!