I'm tired of cooking/preparing 3 meals a day. It's just the two of us but boy oh boy can that woman eat!! She stays slimish, I get fattish. It's bad enough I do everything here much less start making her one thing and me the other. At times I feel guilty when I buy her fast food cuz of the nutritional value....not to mention I eat it too.
No, she has no psychosis; no dementia. She has been like this (abusive) my whole life.
She’s charming to - all - other people. Her meanness is intentionally directed only at me. She isn’t mean to me 24/7; it’s mixed with some niceness.
I believe she’s extremely jealous of me. (Many mothers are very jealous of their daughters).
Do you think a person who will deliberately risk and cause serious injury to themselves to spite another person is not suffering from some kind of mental illness or dementia?
If your mother is doing all the things you say as you say, she has some kind of mental illness or dementia.
I believe you when you say she is very jealous of you. Mothers jealous of their daughters is pretty common. My own mother has always had extreme jealousy towards me my entire life. I got my father's good looks and she could never stand it.
Your mother very likely puts on 'performances' and fabricates health crises (like mine does) for these reasons:
-To get attention because she feels neglected if she is not the center of your life 24/7. Help her find something to do with her time or somewhere to go.
-She enjoys seeing you distressed. Causing crises and chaos with things like staged falls and everything under the sun being an "emergency" is entertainment for her. It's one of her 'games'. Believe me when I say, seniors LOVE to play games with their families and caregivers. When they know you're not going to be a player, they stop. ***Don't get me wrong, I don't mean every senior, but I have 25 years of homecare service to my name so I am an expert at the 'games'.
-She is deeply jealous of you for whatever reasons and enjoys spiting you. If a "fall" will mean a trip to the ER and you miss out on something you were looking forward to, she will take pleasure in your disappointment and will relish it sharing in it.
Since you're not willing to cut her out of your life (and most aren't willing to cut their parents out of their lives), you have to start changing the dynamic between the two of you.
Take up using profanity. When the verbal abuse starts up tell her to shut up with a few well-placed 'F' bombs. This will usually put the brakes on a senior-brat acting up.
Call her out on her crap in front of people. This is what I started doing and it works. The nice as pie in front of everyone else, oh no. I've been doing this for years. She'll knock it off immediately. A little embarrassment goes a long way.
Learn to ignore with love. When you're together and the verbal abuse has started or a she's starting up a game, end that visit immediately and go home. Follow it with a period of total ignoring. Don't even take her calls. If she has no dementia as you say, then she is responsible for herself. Let her make mistakes and do what she wants. You're not responsible for her.
She doesn’t have a mental illness; no dementia. She’s been like this, towards me, all my life. She can switch it on/off whenever she likes.
She has always been nice to everyone else, all her life. She continues to be nice to everyone else.
“Do you think a person who will deliberately risk and cause serious injury to themselves to spite another person is not suffering from some kind of mental illness or dementia?”
Correct. She’s not ill.
She’s cruel to me.
Being cruel towards one person doesn’t have to mean you’re mentally ill. It means you’re cruel towards - that - person. Generally, very commonly, it’s a woman against another woman.
“Let her make mistakes and do what she wants. You're not responsible for her.”
This is true. But it’s not that simple, or else I would have done so.
I’m not going to abandon her. This means if I don’t solve certain problems now, they’ll land on me later.
Consequences don’t just affect her life.
I’m looking for more people to hire, so my contact with her is minimized.
“Take up using profanity. When the verbal abuse starts up tell her to shut up with a few well-placed 'F' bombs.”
Really, my Mom is very abusive. It might be hard to imagine, but there are many ways in which an abuser can retaliate. Flying-monkeys, whatever. Some abusers even try to find ways so the cruelty continues after their death.
The best technique I’ve come up with, is just try to minimize contact. In addition to that, I’ll try to hire other people who can handle some problems.
“Call her out on her crap in front of people. This is what I started doing and it works.”
I had done this. It works for one minute. Later, retaliation.
“Help her find something to do with her time”
She has many interests. That’s no problem.
But among her interests, is being cruel to me.
If this isn't common on other countries TV networks, I wonder if visitors to the U.S., when watching our networks, are thinking that Americans must be a sickly group of people.
it’s totally not normal in other countries. it only happens on TV in USA.
hope you’re well :).
bundle of joy :)
You won't actually take any action to change the dynamic with your mother. You will make no changes protect yourself from her abuse or possible 'retaliation'. Every tried and true suggestion made to you here is met with a counterpoint for why they can't possibly work. None of them can work for you because you don't really want any of them to work for you.
I hope you return with a positive update but I really don't think it's possible.
Some people actually enjoy being disrespected and mistreated because then they can play the victim and martyr roles. You likely create the conditions and environment where your mother can be verbally abusive to you and then 'retaliate' if you don't obey and thank her for the abusive behavior.
That's no way to live your life.
Good luck to you. I hope it all works out.
my heart goes out to you. some of us are really in very difficult situations.
i don’t know how…
but i wish us freedom from abuse.
some of us really are trapped - and if one would know all the details of someone else’s situation, one would see it’s very hard (impossible?) to get out of the trap — unless you totally abandon your LOs. absolutely no contact = no abuse.
we all need some good luck. i wish luck to come our way.
bundle of joy
I’m also not against every suggestion. I’m actively looking for someone to replace me. This way I minimize contact.
On the internet, solutions to someone else’s problems can seem easy, because you yourself aren’t living that OP’s situation, nor do you live with whatever consequences when following well-meant advice.
Regarding advice:
For example, ignoring might shut down your Mom’s abuse. Of course I’ve tried it with my Mom. Many times. It doesn’t work. My Mom will never stop abusing. Flying-monkeys, etc. For example, you thought no Mom will intentionally hurt themselves (they’re just faking it, only threatening). Wrong. My Mom’s extremely abusive. She fell on purpose. Ambulance.
For example, you thought this necessarily means dementia or mental illness. No actually. Some Moms are not sick. They’re just very mean to one child (usually the daughter), while charming to everyone else. They can switch it on/off anytime. They’re not sick, just mean, cruel towards one person (usually because of jealousy).
I appreciate all the help from everyone. I’m very much hoping I find someone who can replace me.
One thing I know from dealing with my parents, not everything can be SAFELY delegated. So I will never be free from certain duties and that leaves me open for abuse. I learned how to not take it personally. Not an easy thing to do but, I always look at the situation and if I didn't say or do anything to provoke my mom, I tell myself that it is her own self hatred that causes this, it is not my problem to own, entertain or fix, that has been really helpful. Also, I hang up and tell her what I really think, then ask for forgiveness and strength.
We could have the same mom from everything you have described, I swear my mom's hobby is trying to find ways to shred my heart and mess with my head. My non-reaction always creates escalation and that could be anything from self harm to telling everyone and anyone that will listen lies about me. I learned to tell her flying monkeys in a very resigned tone, I know and then I sigh. I don't argue or defend myself, it's pointless and uses to much energy.
You do you and don't worry what anyone thinks about the situation with mommy dearest.
I lived at a distance from my mother though she wanted me to move to her apartment building and look after her. There was no way I was going to make myself that available to her and her abuse. I kept on working (college instructor) and living at a distance. I needed to build up my pension for my old age and also have a life separate from her and my sister, who is similar to mother. I used to stay with her on my visits but eventually stopped that due to the abuse and stayed in hotels.
My daughter and I hired a senior nanny from the Philippines who lived in with mother. That lasted 9 months after which the nanny broke down over the abuse and mother was diagnosed with BPD. I have wondered if it took someone outside the family to tell the drs about the abuse before it was believed. Mother could be very charming if she wanted to. It is typical of personality disorders/narcissists to choose one person as their scapegoat who then becomes the object of abuse.
I distanced and detached as much as possible. I was not involved with her day to day stuff, and, in fact only visited her about 4 times a year unless there was a genuine need. That was enough. She was capable of dealing with her own business or finding people who could help her. It was pretty wild for a while as the dementia surfaced and she needed more help even if she didn't want it.
Once she was diagnosed with vascular dementia, they confirmed the BPD and at least all her medical people were aware. By this time she had been placed in assisted living. I learned not to tell mother when I was going on holiday as she inevitably created a crisis to center attention on herself. That's typical of narcissist behaviour. Mother risked herself to get the attention back on her. By this point, I had had to take over managing her finances, overseeing her medical care, buying her clothing etc. I did this mostly from a distance. It is quite possible.
I was essentially an only child as far as mother's care was concerned. My sister was more interested in inheriting mother's money than in mother's care.
Pauline Boss, a psychologist is one, amongst others, who stated that a person who has been and is being abused should never be a caregiver for their abuser. I agree with her and in retrospect, wish I had not agreed to be POA. The stress took huge toll on my mental and physical health, even when she was in a facility. And, for me, the historical stuff couldn't heal when the abuse was ongoing.
I would never have lived with her nor been available to her more than I was. I found when I gave her an inch she wanted 10 miles and I had to set and reset boundaries all the time.
I commend you for looking for someone (or perhaps "someones") to replace you and wish you all success. You said your goal is to keep your mother in her home as long as possible. That's a "want" for your mother, not a "need". The need is for adequate medical care, food, accommodation, and such. I found that looking after mother's "needs" had to come before looking after her "wants". The live-in nanny idea having crashed it had to be a facility.
Please in all of this look after yourself. You have said that your mental/emotional health is suffering as well as your career. Build up a life for yourself apart from your mother. That's healthy for you. Get therapy to help you make these changes. I have gone to therapists off and on all my life. It helped. (((hugs)))
“not everything can be SAFELY delegated. So I will never be free from certain duties and that leaves me open for abuse.”
Exactly.
That’s the thing :(.
Unless you totally cut contact…
“I learned how to not take it personally.”
All your concrete suggestions are really, really helpful. THANK YOU.
I have been TERRIBLE at not taking it personally. I take all of it personally, defend myself, correct false accusations, etc. I also tried ignoring. I tried many ways.
I will try right away doing what you suggest. Literally right before reading your message, my Mom insulted me (huge insult), and I got very upset (I decided not to ignore).
Now I read your message, and I’ll try all the techniques you mention, also about how to deal with flying-monkeys.
“I swear my mom's hobby is trying to find ways to shred my heart and mess with my head.”
Exactly. Literally just happened to me just now, before I read your message.
THANK YOU. (I thank all of you for helping.) But Isthisrealyreal, I really feel your techniques can help me: you said I shouldn’t take it personally, etc.
THANK YOU.
“I learned not to tell mother when I was going on holiday as she inevitably created a crisis to center attention on herself. That's typical of narcissist behaviour.”
Same here.
“Please in all of this look after yourself. You have said that your mental/emotional health is suffering as well as your career. Build up a life for yourself apart from your mother.”
Really, thank you for your kind wishes for me. I’ll do so.
And thanks for all the advice. I feel like now I’m armed with many more techniques/ideas. I think I’ll be able to handle things better.
THANK YOU.
You can do it! Because it is her and not you.
When you blow it with her, I know I still do, don't get down on yourself. It happens but, next contact you can do better. I have a nerf bat that I have used with a pillow for decades, it's a good way to relieve frustration after particularly trying encounters. That and a meat tenderizing mallet. ;-)
another point: i had never thought of it before, until reading the posts below yesterday: the word that comes to me now:
psychological warfare. that’s what it is.
intentional.
psychological warfare against us.
no wonder we get totally stressed out from the abuse.
if someone’s waging war against you, it’s no wonder you can’t relax; no wonder you can’t have a nice life.
(war isn’t just bombs and guns, etc.) (psychological warfare is real)
no wonder we’re stressed.
someone’s literally waging war against you.
Hi Bundle of Joy, Makes a lot of sense. It’s psychological warfare, right!
It just happened now.
I saw for the first time, that she really is very cruel (I’ve seen it before, of course).
But I clearly saw today (I hadn’t really noticed before), that she’s intentionally trying to provoke me; she actually wants me to get angry and raise my voice (I’m normally never an angry person) (but I do raise my voice when my Mom says outrageous things; I’m not always ignoring every insult).
Today, I on purpose spoke very calmly, because I suddenly realized she’s on purpose trying to make me raise my voice. Then her plan is to cry, etc., etc., as soon as the caregiver arrives.
she’s on purpose trying to mess with you.
she probably loves getting you in a bad state. the angrier you are, the more you raise your voice, the happier she is.
and:
the more your career gets destroyed…
the more your personal life, friendships, relationships, get destroyed…
the less you achieve in life…
all those things,
the happier she’ll be.
it’s psychological warfare.
she wants you to lose.
she wants you to fail in life.
we who are abused don’t realize, i think, just how much abuse affects us.
think of all your time she wasted (besides your energy/emotions), while she insulted you today…
and how much time you need to recover…
all that time wasted.
——
i don’t know the solution. maybe part of the solution is to be aware that she’s really acting like an enemy.
if you know that, then you know that things coming from her (comments…insults), are coming from an enemy.
I can actually see and hear my mom becoming happy if she can upset me. But, I can see and hear her getting mad if she can't. I find it very sad for her that she gets joy from hurting anyone.
crazy. but it really is like that.
(crazy that your mother is like that).
my mother is the same. (not always) (there are many moments when she’s genuinely on my side).
hugs to us all, caught in such awful situations, and not being able to get away completely, because we’re helping the abuser (hence in unavoidable contact).
bundle of joy
I really wish we could all be free from these people who torture us.
Different story: I met a man recently at work, who’s always very jolly. He has a great attitude. I decided to ask him how he handles people who insult him, whom he can’t get away from.
(He doesn’t know my situation at all).
He said he walks away from all such people, but if there’s no way to get away from that person…He says, then it’s really hard, because they’ll keep attacking you. He said, he wouldn’t be able, willing, to put up with it.
Only dealing with her when I feel strong and hanging up when she starts has been super effective. I will tell her that I have a call coming in that I have been waiting for or my honey is calling, pulling in, whatever. I NEVER give her the opportunity to defend her behavior by never bringing it up, she knows what's she's doing and I am not arguing about her crap, I just have to go now.
As difficult as it is to not defend yourself against lies, it has really be helpful for me. I don't get sucked into her nonsense and I don't care what she says about me. People that know me, know the truth and people that believe her, they can believe whatever they want. It takes two to tangle and I have found that side stepping her attacks leave her floundering and me less affected by her attacks. Where I use to get upset and angry, now I just feel sad for her. She must be terribly miserable with herself to attack the only family member that helps her or even speaks with her.
Your coworker is correct. Total disconnect from toxic people is the only real fix.
Mom: where's the bathroom?
Me: at the end of the hall.
Mom: you sound like a broken record
Me: 😶🙃
I want to add one thing my co-worker said: it’s like beating against a wall.
Of course I’ve heard the expression before, but somehow his words really sunk in. I hope I really get it now, really understand it. It also helped me what Bundle of Joy said: my Mom’s acting like an enemy. (In other words, no wonder she’s saying all that to me). And it helped, my realization for the 1st time that: she’s intentionally trying to get me to raise my voice. I had never realized it before.
I want to reply to what you said. So very useful.
“As difficult as it is to not defend yourself against lies, it has really been helpful for me. I don't get sucked into her nonsense and I don't care what she says about me.”
I haven’t reached that stage yet. I still care what she says, thinks, about me, so I still correct things. Maybe soon I’ll stop.
My colleague said: he tries talking once, then no more.
I still feel I need to correct some things. Maybe soon I won’t need to anymore. Maybe soon I’ll have corrected anyway every possible insult. Yesterday and today, she really threw out every possible insult one can say to a human being. So maybe soon there’s nothing more for me to correct. Maybe ironically it’s good she threw out every possible insult that exists. There’s nothing more for me to counter. Gosh, I hope that ironically I’m - in a way - liberated a bit in this way.
“People that know me, know the truth and people that believe her, they can believe whatever they want.”
I haven’t quite reached that stage yet. I hope I do. She often tries to insult me in front of people I like. So I do sometimes correct the insults.
“It takes two to tangle and I have found that side stepping her attacks leave her floundering and me less affected by her attacks.”
I understand. Hopefully soon I’ll be like you.
“Where I used to get upset and angry, now I just feel sad for her.”
I see, yes.
“She must be terribly miserable with herself to attack the only family member that helps her”
Same here, I’m the only one who helps.
“Your coworker is correct. Total disconnect from toxic people is the only real fix.”
Yes, but that’s impossible unless you decide to go totally no contact: totally abandon my Mom. As long as I help her, there’ll always be contact. Anyway, I will continue to look for people to replace me: minimize my contact.
atlas…
he didn’t like holding up the earth on his shoulders, and he tried to get out of it many times.
he never did succeed, and continues to hold it for eternity…
:( :( :( :(
liberate yourself.
BOJ, that Greek myth seems very relevant to me. (By the way, I don’t want to explain my life here). I feel like Atlas. I want to get out of my situation. I don’t want to end up like Atlas.
I want to vent about two things. First, I’m miserable. Second, I’ve spent many days recently speaking to a friend about how miserable I am (while at the same time making changes to make my life better). But I also realize that I’ve spent all that time venting (instead of for example, walking in the sun). Very sunny days here right now. But I needed to vent. I’m glad I vented.
But…but, but…
I feel sorry for myself. (You who read this, don’t know what’s going on. It’s all right. I don’t want to explain). I just feel sorry for myself (I know what’s going on).
BOJ, I feel like Atlas. I don’t want to be Atlas.
i don’t know the solution. my heart goes out to all of us, in our difficult situations.
some of us have been forced into hard, impossible situations. sometimes there seems to be no way out. (like atlas, the greek myth).
there must be a way out.
the universe is a beautiful place. it’s not possible that we kind people are doomed, because of our kindness.
if you feel you’re carrying too much weight on your shoulders, there must be a solution.
perhaps take a look at another greek myth, where things work out :).
ok, not so easy, since 99% of greek myths end very badly.
anywayyyy, there must be a way.
find a way to liberate yourself. would be cool to discover the solution is very simple.
by the way:
i think venting is important. better now, than later. get the venting out of your system. it’s just as important as any other need. VOS, you’ll walk in the sun better later anyway, having vented/talked about what you needed to talk about. now you’ve done that, and now you can go out in the sun. :)
i wish us all well. :)
bundle of joy :)