I'm tired of cooking/preparing 3 meals a day. It's just the two of us but boy oh boy can that woman eat!! She stays slimish, I get fattish. It's bad enough I do everything here much less start making her one thing and me the other. At times I feel guilty when I buy her fast food cuz of the nutritional value....not to mention I eat it too.
crazy. but it really is like that.
(crazy that your mother is like that).
my mother is the same. (not always) (there are many moments when she’s genuinely on my side).
hugs to us all, caught in such awful situations, and not being able to get away completely, because we’re helping the abuser (hence in unavoidable contact).
bundle of joy
I can actually see and hear my mom becoming happy if she can upset me. But, I can see and hear her getting mad if she can't. I find it very sad for her that she gets joy from hurting anyone.
she’s on purpose trying to mess with you.
she probably loves getting you in a bad state. the angrier you are, the more you raise your voice, the happier she is.
and:
the more your career gets destroyed…
the more your personal life, friendships, relationships, get destroyed…
the less you achieve in life…
all those things,
the happier she’ll be.
it’s psychological warfare.
she wants you to lose.
she wants you to fail in life.
we who are abused don’t realize, i think, just how much abuse affects us.
think of all your time she wasted (besides your energy/emotions), while she insulted you today…
and how much time you need to recover…
all that time wasted.
——
i don’t know the solution. maybe part of the solution is to be aware that she’s really acting like an enemy.
if you know that, then you know that things coming from her (comments…insults), are coming from an enemy.
It just happened now.
I saw for the first time, that she really is very cruel (I’ve seen it before, of course).
But I clearly saw today (I hadn’t really noticed before), that she’s intentionally trying to provoke me; she actually wants me to get angry and raise my voice (I’m normally never an angry person) (but I do raise my voice when my Mom says outrageous things; I’m not always ignoring every insult).
Today, I on purpose spoke very calmly, because I suddenly realized she’s on purpose trying to make me raise my voice. Then her plan is to cry, etc., etc., as soon as the caregiver arrives.
Hi Bundle of Joy, Makes a lot of sense. It’s psychological warfare, right!
another point: i had never thought of it before, until reading the posts below yesterday: the word that comes to me now:
psychological warfare. that’s what it is.
intentional.
psychological warfare against us.
no wonder we get totally stressed out from the abuse.
if someone’s waging war against you, it’s no wonder you can’t relax; no wonder you can’t have a nice life.
(war isn’t just bombs and guns, etc.) (psychological warfare is real)
no wonder we’re stressed.
someone’s literally waging war against you.
You can do it! Because it is her and not you.
When you blow it with her, I know I still do, don't get down on yourself. It happens but, next contact you can do better. I have a nerf bat that I have used with a pillow for decades, it's a good way to relieve frustration after particularly trying encounters. That and a meat tenderizing mallet. ;-)
“I learned not to tell mother when I was going on holiday as she inevitably created a crisis to center attention on herself. That's typical of narcissist behaviour.”
Same here.
“Please in all of this look after yourself. You have said that your mental/emotional health is suffering as well as your career. Build up a life for yourself apart from your mother.”
Really, thank you for your kind wishes for me. I’ll do so.
And thanks for all the advice. I feel like now I’m armed with many more techniques/ideas. I think I’ll be able to handle things better.
THANK YOU.
“not everything can be SAFELY delegated. So I will never be free from certain duties and that leaves me open for abuse.”
Exactly.
That’s the thing :(.
Unless you totally cut contact…
“I learned how to not take it personally.”
All your concrete suggestions are really, really helpful. THANK YOU.
I have been TERRIBLE at not taking it personally. I take all of it personally, defend myself, correct false accusations, etc. I also tried ignoring. I tried many ways.
I will try right away doing what you suggest. Literally right before reading your message, my Mom insulted me (huge insult), and I got very upset (I decided not to ignore).
Now I read your message, and I’ll try all the techniques you mention, also about how to deal with flying-monkeys.
“I swear my mom's hobby is trying to find ways to shred my heart and mess with my head.”
Exactly. Literally just happened to me just now, before I read your message.
THANK YOU. (I thank all of you for helping.) But Isthisrealyreal, I really feel your techniques can help me: you said I shouldn’t take it personally, etc.
THANK YOU.
I lived at a distance from my mother though she wanted me to move to her apartment building and look after her. There was no way I was going to make myself that available to her and her abuse. I kept on working (college instructor) and living at a distance. I needed to build up my pension for my old age and also have a life separate from her and my sister, who is similar to mother. I used to stay with her on my visits but eventually stopped that due to the abuse and stayed in hotels.
My daughter and I hired a senior nanny from the Philippines who lived in with mother. That lasted 9 months after which the nanny broke down over the abuse and mother was diagnosed with BPD. I have wondered if it took someone outside the family to tell the drs about the abuse before it was believed. Mother could be very charming if she wanted to. It is typical of personality disorders/narcissists to choose one person as their scapegoat who then becomes the object of abuse.
I distanced and detached as much as possible. I was not involved with her day to day stuff, and, in fact only visited her about 4 times a year unless there was a genuine need. That was enough. She was capable of dealing with her own business or finding people who could help her. It was pretty wild for a while as the dementia surfaced and she needed more help even if she didn't want it.
Once she was diagnosed with vascular dementia, they confirmed the BPD and at least all her medical people were aware. By this time she had been placed in assisted living. I learned not to tell mother when I was going on holiday as she inevitably created a crisis to center attention on herself. That's typical of narcissist behaviour. Mother risked herself to get the attention back on her. By this point, I had had to take over managing her finances, overseeing her medical care, buying her clothing etc. I did this mostly from a distance. It is quite possible.
I was essentially an only child as far as mother's care was concerned. My sister was more interested in inheriting mother's money than in mother's care.
Pauline Boss, a psychologist is one, amongst others, who stated that a person who has been and is being abused should never be a caregiver for their abuser. I agree with her and in retrospect, wish I had not agreed to be POA. The stress took huge toll on my mental and physical health, even when she was in a facility. And, for me, the historical stuff couldn't heal when the abuse was ongoing.
I would never have lived with her nor been available to her more than I was. I found when I gave her an inch she wanted 10 miles and I had to set and reset boundaries all the time.
I commend you for looking for someone (or perhaps "someones") to replace you and wish you all success. You said your goal is to keep your mother in her home as long as possible. That's a "want" for your mother, not a "need". The need is for adequate medical care, food, accommodation, and such. I found that looking after mother's "needs" had to come before looking after her "wants". The live-in nanny idea having crashed it had to be a facility.
Please in all of this look after yourself. You have said that your mental/emotional health is suffering as well as your career. Build up a life for yourself apart from your mother. That's healthy for you. Get therapy to help you make these changes. I have gone to therapists off and on all my life. It helped. (((hugs)))
One thing I know from dealing with my parents, not everything can be SAFELY delegated. So I will never be free from certain duties and that leaves me open for abuse. I learned how to not take it personally. Not an easy thing to do but, I always look at the situation and if I didn't say or do anything to provoke my mom, I tell myself that it is her own self hatred that causes this, it is not my problem to own, entertain or fix, that has been really helpful. Also, I hang up and tell her what I really think, then ask for forgiveness and strength.
We could have the same mom from everything you have described, I swear my mom's hobby is trying to find ways to shred my heart and mess with my head. My non-reaction always creates escalation and that could be anything from self harm to telling everyone and anyone that will listen lies about me. I learned to tell her flying monkeys in a very resigned tone, I know and then I sigh. I don't argue or defend myself, it's pointless and uses to much energy.
You do you and don't worry what anyone thinks about the situation with mommy dearest.
I’m also not against every suggestion. I’m actively looking for someone to replace me. This way I minimize contact.
On the internet, solutions to someone else’s problems can seem easy, because you yourself aren’t living that OP’s situation, nor do you live with whatever consequences when following well-meant advice.
Regarding advice:
For example, ignoring might shut down your Mom’s abuse. Of course I’ve tried it with my Mom. Many times. It doesn’t work. My Mom will never stop abusing. Flying-monkeys, etc. For example, you thought no Mom will intentionally hurt themselves (they’re just faking it, only threatening). Wrong. My Mom’s extremely abusive. She fell on purpose. Ambulance.
For example, you thought this necessarily means dementia or mental illness. No actually. Some Moms are not sick. They’re just very mean to one child (usually the daughter), while charming to everyone else. They can switch it on/off anytime. They’re not sick, just mean, cruel towards one person (usually because of jealousy).
I appreciate all the help from everyone. I’m very much hoping I find someone who can replace me.
my heart goes out to you. some of us are really in very difficult situations.
i don’t know how…
but i wish us freedom from abuse.
some of us really are trapped - and if one would know all the details of someone else’s situation, one would see it’s very hard (impossible?) to get out of the trap — unless you totally abandon your LOs. absolutely no contact = no abuse.
we all need some good luck. i wish luck to come our way.
bundle of joy
You won't actually take any action to change the dynamic with your mother. You will make no changes protect yourself from her abuse or possible 'retaliation'. Every tried and true suggestion made to you here is met with a counterpoint for why they can't possibly work. None of them can work for you because you don't really want any of them to work for you.
I hope you return with a positive update but I really don't think it's possible.
Some people actually enjoy being disrespected and mistreated because then they can play the victim and martyr roles. You likely create the conditions and environment where your mother can be verbally abusive to you and then 'retaliate' if you don't obey and thank her for the abusive behavior.
That's no way to live your life.
Good luck to you. I hope it all works out.
it’s totally not normal in other countries. it only happens on TV in USA.
hope you’re well :).
bundle of joy :)
If this isn't common on other countries TV networks, I wonder if visitors to the U.S., when watching our networks, are thinking that Americans must be a sickly group of people.
She doesn’t have a mental illness; no dementia. She’s been like this, towards me, all my life. She can switch it on/off whenever she likes.
She has always been nice to everyone else, all her life. She continues to be nice to everyone else.
“Do you think a person who will deliberately risk and cause serious injury to themselves to spite another person is not suffering from some kind of mental illness or dementia?”
Correct. She’s not ill.
She’s cruel to me.
Being cruel towards one person doesn’t have to mean you’re mentally ill. It means you’re cruel towards - that - person. Generally, very commonly, it’s a woman against another woman.
“Let her make mistakes and do what she wants. You're not responsible for her.”
This is true. But it’s not that simple, or else I would have done so.
I’m not going to abandon her. This means if I don’t solve certain problems now, they’ll land on me later.
Consequences don’t just affect her life.
I’m looking for more people to hire, so my contact with her is minimized.
“Take up using profanity. When the verbal abuse starts up tell her to shut up with a few well-placed 'F' bombs.”
Really, my Mom is very abusive. It might be hard to imagine, but there are many ways in which an abuser can retaliate. Flying-monkeys, whatever. Some abusers even try to find ways so the cruelty continues after their death.
The best technique I’ve come up with, is just try to minimize contact. In addition to that, I’ll try to hire other people who can handle some problems.
“Call her out on her crap in front of people. This is what I started doing and it works.”
I had done this. It works for one minute. Later, retaliation.
“Help her find something to do with her time”
She has many interests. That’s no problem.
But among her interests, is being cruel to me.
Do you think a person who will deliberately risk and cause serious injury to themselves to spite another person is not suffering from some kind of mental illness or dementia?
If your mother is doing all the things you say as you say, she has some kind of mental illness or dementia.
I believe you when you say she is very jealous of you. Mothers jealous of their daughters is pretty common. My own mother has always had extreme jealousy towards me my entire life. I got my father's good looks and she could never stand it.
Your mother very likely puts on 'performances' and fabricates health crises (like mine does) for these reasons:
-To get attention because she feels neglected if she is not the center of your life 24/7. Help her find something to do with her time or somewhere to go.
-She enjoys seeing you distressed. Causing crises and chaos with things like staged falls and everything under the sun being an "emergency" is entertainment for her. It's one of her 'games'. Believe me when I say, seniors LOVE to play games with their families and caregivers. When they know you're not going to be a player, they stop. ***Don't get me wrong, I don't mean every senior, but I have 25 years of homecare service to my name so I am an expert at the 'games'.
-She is deeply jealous of you for whatever reasons and enjoys spiting you. If a "fall" will mean a trip to the ER and you miss out on something you were looking forward to, she will take pleasure in your disappointment and will relish it sharing in it.
Since you're not willing to cut her out of your life (and most aren't willing to cut their parents out of their lives), you have to start changing the dynamic between the two of you.
Take up using profanity. When the verbal abuse starts up tell her to shut up with a few well-placed 'F' bombs. This will usually put the brakes on a senior-brat acting up.
Call her out on her crap in front of people. This is what I started doing and it works. The nice as pie in front of everyone else, oh no. I've been doing this for years. She'll knock it off immediately. A little embarrassment goes a long way.
Learn to ignore with love. When you're together and the verbal abuse has started or a she's starting up a game, end that visit immediately and go home. Follow it with a period of total ignoring. Don't even take her calls. If she has no dementia as you say, then she is responsible for herself. Let her make mistakes and do what she wants. You're not responsible for her.
No, she has no psychosis; no dementia. She has been like this (abusive) my whole life.
She’s charming to - all - other people. Her meanness is intentionally directed only at me. She isn’t mean to me 24/7; it’s mixed with some niceness.
I believe she’s extremely jealous of me. (Many mothers are very jealous of their daughters).
If your mother will actually risk serious injury to herself out of spite to make yu miserable and does not have dementia or psychosis, then she truly hates you.
You would do well to stop all contact and communication with her.
She also has very serious mental illness or advancing dementia if she will hurt herself and risk being seriously injured to spite you. She belongs in a mental hospital because either she is a psychotic or is suffering from some kind of dementia. Either way she is not safe living on her own in an uncontrolled environment.
Let her fall. The next time she's hospitalized explain to the doctor what you are saying here. Your mother needs psychiatric intervention because she is a very sick woman.
Understand please, my Mom is VERY abusive.
“Let her fall. Believe me, she will not cause herself injury and suffering to spite you.”
Wrong. She’s already done it twice. Broke her back, ambulance; I was supposed to leave that day back to my house. Etc.
My Mom is capable of a lot of things, to make me miserable.
Let her fall. Believe me, she will not cause herself injury and suffering to spite you.
I had care clients like this. Senior citizens who behaved like children with a fake "boo-boo" to get attention. They never got any from me. I do care about the fake boo-boos of attention-seeking seniors or anyone else for that matter. My mother is like this and has been putting on phony health crises and "performances" since I was a little kid.
She cried wolf so many times that everyone pretty much just ignores her. We know when it's fake.
I had a few care clients who liked to stage falls. This is a real thing. There was one who's call me after hours crying that she was on the floor and needed help and could I just come over. I came a couple of times and she was fine, it was for attention. None of them ever want their adult kids called or an ambulance. After this I learned to let all client calls go to voicemail. I dis not take calls after hours and would never call back unless it was to confirm a cancellation of service.
Believe me, your mother will not hurt herself. Let her fall. She's staging it.
She is always going to behave abusively to you, but you decide how you'll respond to it.
When she starts a performance, that is when you end the visit and leave. Don't play her games anymore. Her games don't work if no one is willing to become players in them.
One time I was going to an out-of-town wedding for four days. When I was literally packing my luggage into the car my mother started up with the needing to go to the ER. She knew that if I took her that for sure I'd miss my flight and the wedding. I knew it was a performance and called someone else to take her.
She didn't go and was fine.
I don't play these nonsense games and neither should you.
I wish us all, abused and not-abused helpers of elderly LOs, to find solutions!
diagnosis (what’s the problem?)
prognosis (what’s the future like?)
therapy (what possible solutions?)
hug! like many of us being abused, there are 2 problems:
diagnosis:
1. helping (the huge work needed to help our elderly LOs) is destroying our own life
2. getting abused while helping
how to solve it?
prognosis:
1. it’ll get worse, more difficult, elderly LOs will need more help. if your life is suffering financially while you help, that’ll get worse with time. if you’re suffering psychologically from all the stress, it’ll get worse.
2. the abuse will get worse. you think it’s bad now? it’ll get worse. and it’s accumulating: more and more pain/abuse you need to heal from, year after year! you’re accumulating pain!
ok, so the future looks very gloomy.
therapy?
1. do your absolute best to save your life. i also have no idea how to do it. be kind to others, but be kind to you, too. you have one shot at life. be a hero to you: mindset. be your best friend! come back one day and post on the forum how you solved it; your success story. expect succeess in saving yourself.
2. i have no idea how, but avoid abuse 100%. non-negotiable. the abuse will never stop. no technique will ever stop an abuser. i agree, they’ll find some way to retaliate. avoid abuse. why should another human being on the planet be allowed to live abuse-free, but not you?
bundle of joy
“Also, unless you're willing to hand everything over to someone else or leave mom to her own devices, you will have to deal with some of it.”
Exactly. That’s exactly the problem. There will always be some problem that can’t totally be delegated to someone else. This means, so long as there’s contact, abuse will continue.
Ignoring, etc., as a solutuion against abuse…
Let me give you another example of how it’s not easy to get away from the abuse. I’m in her house now removing valuables. She walked in a dangerous way. I quickly rescued her from falling. Why? Because I don’t want her to fall, AND, because she was intentionally taking a risk: she knew that if she falls, someone (me) will have to call 911. It’ll create a mess for me. I could just let her fall and not call 911. But of course I won’t do that. Will I be stressed when the ambulance comes? Of course. Anyway, I stopped her from falling and of course she screamed. Why? Because me being near her was another chance for her to abuse me. But I don’t have a choice - if I had let her fall, problems land on me.
“This is taught by ignoring her and refusing to help her.”
I’ll try to find a way out. I really appreciate all of you, with all your ideas. I’ll try to find someone to replace me.
You say your mother's mind is fine and her abusive behavior is not a result of dementia.
Then there is really zero reason for you to tolerate it.
Give it right back to her.
Can you practice saying the following:
'Shut the h*ll up. I really don't care what you think.'
'If you want my help you better keep the snideness and yelling in check, or I will do nothing to help you, and I mean nothing'.
'I am not afraid of you and if you make threats I will cut off all contact with you and you will be totally alone'.
Also, unless you're willing to hand everything over to someone else or leave mom to her own devices, you will have to deal with some of it.
It's not that hard to purchase a metal strong box or a safe and lock up valuables like jewelry, checkbooks, credit cards, sensitive documents, etc... if homecare is going to start coming.
Your mother from what you're saying is in need of some serious tough love. Sometimes the best thing for someone like her is to completely ignore them for a while.
You do not have to clean up her messes and put out her fires if she is still of sound mind. You won't get in trouble if she makes bad choices.
She is not going change the person she is, but she can learn to keep her abusive behavior in check.
This is taught by ignoring her and refusing to help her.