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I think this is a good conversation. Sometimes in taking on new ways, we close the door on things that are really worth considering. I believe that people's perceptions of demons are because they picture these little grinning imps with pointy tails or they envision The Exorcist. Perhaps it is better to see demons as things that get a chokehold on us that cannot be explained by the physical. A good example is porn addiction. Yes, it is an addiction that has a physical component that goes with hormones and arousal. But it has a huge spiritual component that allows the addiction to take hold. I wonder if these types of addictions respond best to spiritual cures -- no, not the casting of the demon into pigs or unfortunate priests, but the spiritual healing of therapy and friendships. Replacing the self-and-other-harmful things with good things.

Therapy to me is a form of spiritual healing. We can get stuck in our therapy when we keep our focus on the bad in our lives without allowing good in to replace it. That is like eliminating a bad food from our diet while not bringing in a good food to replace the lost calories. Pretty soon we'll crave the bad food again because a void has been left in our diet.

I enjoy reading one of our members who is into yoga and other things because I see her chasing out bad things with good. I know we can all do this in our own lives, but I have to admit I am not a good person to wrestle with other people's demons. They are always a lot stronger than I am.
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Very interesting. I do believe Satan is alive and well on the planet Earth. I, as a Christian believe prayer helps keep Satan at a distance. "In the New Testament the Greek transliteration Satanas is used, and this usually appears as Satan in English translations. He is spoken of as the prince of evil spirits, the inveterate enemy of God and of Christ, who takes the guise of an angel of light. He can enter a man and act through him; hence, a man can be called Satan because of his acts or attitude. Through his subordinate demons Satan can take possession of men’s bodies, afflicting them or making them diseased. To him sinners are delivered for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved.". Written by: The Editors of Encyclopedia Britannica. Hope this does not cause more confusion.
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Jessie, you are right, we can't cast out a demon of a personality disorder.

One of the worst things to happen in the field of mental illness was the belief of some that demons caused mental illness. Some churches have held on to that view and it is no surprise that some people with a mental illness have found churches to be of little help and sometimes a lot of harm by telling people they either have a demon, an unconfessed sin, or just lack strong faith. It is a good thing to be able to report that not all churches are like that and that groups like NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) are working with churches and other faith groups to find ways that faith, spirituality, mental health meds, and therapy can all work together on treating the whole person in helping them recover as much as it is possible a life with a mental illness. Change is moving slowly, but it is coming.

Thankfully, most of Western society has grown past that old view of mental illnes and demons, but sad to say Western society has gone to the other extreme of believing that there is no role for faith and spirituality in helping a mentally ill person recover. In a few, rare spots that is starting to change not only in churches but in hospitals as well.

The other thing that Western society is for some strange reason it appears that many Christians in the West no longer believe in the reality of demons which can be cast out in Jesus' name and the reality of the devil who can be resisted with God's help. Sometimes, we are too quick to give the devil or demons credit for something that is some dark thing someone chose to do. There is a balance in their between either extreme.

Before the title of borderline personality disorder, therapists use to just call those people mean. Now, we understand that a combination of nurture and nature makes them the way they are.

From my understanding there is a differentiation between a mental illness and the demonic possession of a person. Otherwise people would be casting the demon of depression, the demon of bipolar, the demon of narcissism, the demon of borderline, the demon of OCD and so on out of people.

When I lived in Kentucky, I sometimes hear about the old days in which revivalists would preach against the tobacco demon or the alcohol demon. Those are addictions not demons.

The chapter that differentiates between mental illness and demon possession can be found @ www.schizophrenia dot com/media/strength dot htm

I hope this does not develop into an argument about this. I'm just sharing my perspective and I believe we are all entitled to our own perspective without getting angry at the other person.

We must somehow discern the spiritual/mental dynamic of the situation. Are they acting like they are because something is physically wrong with them? Are they mentally ill? Are their personalities disordered by something that we can explain? After all of those questions are answered then we might consider something demonic going on.

One pastor who has a brother with schizophrenia has written a chapter in his book that differentiates between demon possession and schizophrenia. That chapter is online.
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Correction -- I don't think you can order a demon out in the name of the Lord...
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Book, thank you for the conversation. I think there is much to be said for your local culture. Modern civilization sanitizes and whitewashes problems people have in an attempt to categorize and medicate back to normalcy. I've often wondered if there are people who have demons who are making them ill. I am a person very inclined to believe in spirits and demons. Sometimes when I am dealing with my mother, it feels that I am dealing with demons that took up residency long time ago. Even though her vitals are good, her mind keeps her sick. I've sometimes thought that if some spirit of goodness was able to get into her that it could help kick some of those nasty demons out of her mind. But she has never been open to spirits of goodness for some reason. It is almost like she isolates herself from caring and sharing to protect the stronghold that the bad forces have on her mind.

I think there is room for both the old ways and the new ways of healing. In the US, spiritual healers tend to be quacks, which discredits the importance of spirits in healing. I do think that we inherently realize that much of our mental problems can be helped by opening ourselves up to goodness. But there seems to be people who are closed to receiving a spirit of goodness, so the evil keeps a strong hold.

Many pastors in the US try to attend to spiritual healing, but I don't think their hearts are really into it. I don't know if many even believe that problems can be caused by demons. Maybe it would be more palatable to people to think of these things as self-and-other-destructive characteristics that are firmly entrenched in the mind. They don't have to look like Linda Blair in The Exorcist. Perhaps they look like a mental illness, a personality disorder, or an abusive parent. If so, then spiritual healing would be very useful. I don't think you can order a personality out in the name of the Lord. I think you have to wash it away and replace it with a good spirit. Our old saying of "Only love can conquer hate" is a good example.
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Keeping a list of all meds is a good idea both the common name and the long name since as Veronica says all the staff do not have the education about the drugs and nth other side have my health history and when getting form to fill out have them make a copy-if at a doc at my medical group or as Veronica said just take your meds with you.
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Glad you are getting help for eldest sis Book. I do agree against all my Western medical education that seeing the local healer is the best thing to do. Sis is so imersed in local culture that she will believe what she is told. Hopefully she will be afraid not to. All of this local culture is so interesting, at least for me. I can see why you are so conflicted between the two cultures.
The Pharmacist is quite right to tell you to stop the citropam. I am glad you did not start the headache stuff because one of them interacts badly with all SSRI which is the family of drugs citropam belongs to. Talk to the Dr but I am wondering if you try the migrain drugs and you get rid of the headaches that alone may be enough to help the depression. Pain is very depressing. It is always a good idea for everyone to get all their medications from the same pharmacy that way they have a record of everything you are taking.
there is supposed to be a nationwide system introduced this year where all the computer systems are linked so each Dr can see (if they make the effort) what ever other things are wrong with you and what treatment you are recieving. Everyone should always give their Dr a current list of all medications which was why I told you to take all your meds to the new Dr. If you get something new you
can always look it up and see if it interacts with anything you are already taking plus possible side effects. i keep a list of medications in my purse which makes it much easier for the nurses. Many time the assistants in the dr's offices these days are LPNs or medical assistants and they don't know their drugs so I also add the reason I am taking it. Look forward to hearing what happens to eldest sis.
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Update. Oldest bro did approach me a few weeks ago about oldest sis scaring him. He was passing by our outside kitchen window when he heard sis laugh aloud and talking to 'someone.' But he knew that there was no visitors because there was no car parked outside. Anyway, I told him what the odd respite caregiver (cg) told me about sis being cursed and how she must go to the 'medicine man' to rid the curse. My SIL (bro's wife) knows where this Med.Man lives.

So, this morning, they went to 'check him' out. See if this medicine man is the real deal or a fake. They got educated from him. Our people's medicine healers are dying off. But the newcomers from other islands - they're 'healers' are more like cursers. They 'heal' you but not enough to make you stop coming to them. They're 'healing' is not a true healing. He said that he's met several different healers from the different islands. He said that some of them are much stronger than him. He avoids any negative 'healing' (or also known as curse.) He has even said that some of these 'healers' practices are closer to 'voodoo' than healer.

When these 'healers' curse people, the victims come to him to be cured. The 'healers' don't like this. They've tried attacking him by curses. That didn't work. So, now they're attacking his family. Before these attacks, he would heal people at all hours. Now, he has cut back - because now his family is in danger. He no longer leaves his home/land at nights from 6pm-6am. That's when the spirits are very strong. And because these 'healers' are from less civilized influences of the 'white man', they're powers are much more stronger than our people's spirits. So, although my family each have our 'spirit', it's not strong enough against these newcomer's spirits. Our local medicine man's Majority of clients are from these other islands. Their own people curse each other a lot. Then they come to him to undo it. Our local healer said that these newcomers are now cursing our local authorities and people in high positions.

I know from when I was in my 20's, I was told by people who were missionaries of these islands - that when we meet these people at their homes, Do Not Drink or Eat anything they offer you. Because they can curse you from that. According to our local healer, he advised my oldest bro to Do Not Shake Hands with them. That is one of their most common forms of transforming the curse to you. He said that the curse can also be in the form of you now suddenly liking that person. And would do anything for him. Wow....

I have noticed in my posts here that I tend to be so ... modernized. Then my culture/beliefs comes along and I'm back to thinking like my ancestors - spirits, voodoo, curses, etc.... I also know what the Bible says about this. So, now I'm so torn on what to believe - and so I see-saw.

The reason why I'm bringing this all up is this. Once my brother had determined that this man is a real healer, he told him about oldest sis. The local healer told bro to bring sis tomorrow morning at 9am. Now, my brother wants me to figure out on how to get sis to go. I told bro straight out that I'm a terrible liar. Plus sis will get mad at me for Tricking her. The local healer warned bro that we must Not tell sis where she's going tomorrow. Because if we do tell her, the spirit will fight it. And sis will not go. Bro decided to invite oldest sis out for breakfast tomorrow morning.

Later, I was talking to sis. Since she saw me with them, she will know that I knew about this - tomorrow. So, to delay suspicions (note Delay not relay. Sis is very smart, astute), I told her what we talked about (except her and healer). I hope it all comes out fine. I'll update you all tomorrow. After it happens.

FYI, SIL doesn't think she's cursed. She thinks sis has some kind of psychological problem. You see, her brother also has mental problems. My new doctor told me that I really need to get help for sis. We're just covering all our bases. First the local healer. Then the white man's way - as in the clinic.and therapy.
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Someone needs to come up with a nation-wide pharmaceutical system. Hire a programmer to do formulas for Insurance A, B, C, D. Under each of these insurance, set up a program to further break down the info to each patient's household. Further break it down to Each Individual of that household. Think of Insurance A as the Tree Trunk. Each Branch is the person's household (the subscriber of the insurance). Each Leaf on that branch is the person's family (subscriber's family under him -wife, oldest son, oldest daughter, etc..) Each member have their own insurance number.

When Member HH (head of household) goes to Pharmacy Coconut for his high blood pressure pill, the integrated pharmaceutical system will log this down. Let's say Member HH is on the way home and decided he might as well fill up that new RX for his headache. Pharmacy Hibiscus is on his route to home. Pharmacy Hibiscus pulls up his name, logs in the headache meds but notices that the RX has a major reaction to his high blood pressure pill. Pharmacy Hibiscus informs him of this. Integrated Pharmaceutical System. FYI, I made that up - IPS.

But, there are a lot of very very intelligent people out there. I'm sure someone can come up with this kind of a system.
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Book, you would think that in this computer age that docs would communicate with each other, pharmacies would pay closer attention to what they are dispensing, etc. That just is not the case. L sees a urologist and I have to request that the docs communicate with each other even.

A couple of years ago, the doc had called in a refill for Mom's seroquel. When I picked it up the staff told me the script was more than 1K. I thought something was wrong, but was assured that everything was correct. And it was very hard to tell anything since ts2 had just started monthly billing on mom's meds. Home I go. When filling up the pill minder the new pills looked different than before, so compared the labels. The pharmacy had dispensed nearly three times Mom's current dosage! And had I just given it to her without checking the result could have been tragic. After checking further, the doc actually called in the incorrect dosage since I had requested 50 mg instead of 25mg pills be called in because of having to give Mom three of the 25mg tablets. The actual dosage did not change, the 50mg woukd be cut in half. So, somebody was not paying attention, and the pharmacy ended up disposing of over 1K worth of medication.

The docs office messed up by not changing the quantity to be dispensed. And you would think that the pharmacy would question the drastic increase in dosage. Neither occurred. We have become ao reliant on our computer systems, people just assume that computers cannot make mistakes. What we all tend to forget is that the information does not get in tge systems by itself, that people have to enter it, and we do make mistakes. Garbage in, garbage out.
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P.S.S.. I found out that even though the pharmacy is in the clinic, they do not share the same info as my doc. So, when I gave my doc those pills (cholest and headaches) and the dosages which she entered in the computer system, the pharmacy did not have it. The pharmacist asked me in frustration why I didn't mention these pills to them. I said, "But, I gave it all to my doctor. She typed it into the computer. Don't you see it on your end?" She calmed down when she realized that I was not aware that their systems do not share info. I guess if I really thought about it - I would have known? But no matter how I think about it, I still would not have thought it did not. I just assumed with technology the way it is today, that all pharmacies Under The Same Insurance would have that capability. Don't you think????
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P.S... I'm Not taking the cholesterol or the headache pills. I wanted to slowly introduce each pill slowly into my system. I wanted to have my body get adjusted first with the depression pill. Then add the headache pills.
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I hate taking medicine. Now I remember why. Just taking that one pill, Citalopram 10mg, I had the mild ringing of the ears this morning. Nothing unusual. I get that when I take any kinds of meds. At work, this morning, my mouth was so dry. So I was drinking water. Which was not quenching the dryness. Sore throat came on. I was so tired by 2pm. I decided to cut short my errands and go home. By 4pm, I couldn't stay awake and decided to take a 15min nap. Woke up drowsily and this really loud ringing of the ears. Very loud. I got up from the sofabed to sit on my office chair. Sat down, and had a sudden surge of heavy dizziness. Whoa! That kinda felt good but was scary. As I sat there thinking about the dizziness, I noticed that my upper lips were tingling. Oh-oh. Not so good now. I get that tingling before I break out in rashes. I got up to check in the mirror. My lips are super red. And I'm not even wearing lipstick. I just stood there staring at my nice red lips. Okaaay... Time to call the pharmacy. I spoke to the pharmacist. She told me to stop taking it immediately. I asked maybe I should take it one more time to make sure of the reaction? She very very firmly told me not to take it. I'm to go back to my doc and try another pill. So.... that's the end of my first venture into a depression med. On to the next one....
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Pam, if the meds are not working against your dad's aggressiveness, I would be very cautious around him. Please make sure all sharp objects (especially the knives) are all safely hidden from him. At least your father hasn't reached the stage where he has attacked (or physically hurt) you or your mom. So, you still have time to put him on that waiting list. With my mom, when became aggressive, she used her hands to hurt us. (She had RX meds for her aggressiveness but my dad refused to give it to her.)

KMD, I was thinking the same thing as Babalou. Was your mom medically diagnosed as age related decline? It makes a difference how to treat that vs. dementia vs. psychological imbalance of the brain. With the bathroom issue, I think it's because of lack of privacy. Hence Veronica's advise that you talk to your mom while she's in the bathroom doing private stuff. Your talking will kind of distract her from what you're doing. Hopefully. I know that it sure helps when I have the TV on when changing dad's pamper!
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Km, your profile says mom is suffering from age related decline? Has she been evaluated for dementia, and perhaps by a geriatric psychiatrist for meds for the combativeness? Might be worth a shot.
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I am going to call tomorrow,,, I know they will have a waiting list, but better to be on it . sometimes you get moved up quickly when those ahead of you decline/aren;t ready yet, etc. Even a respite break might make mom more easy about this. I have explained that Medi won't pay, but they wont take all her money as she is spouse still needing some! At least I hope so!
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Pam maybe you should just go ahead and start making arrangement for memory care for dad.I am afraid mom will not do anything till things get critical then she will just get so upset when it is forced on her. No one wants to take that step but it will be better for all concerned if this can be done calmly. Your husband is right to be concerned for your's and Mom's safety. He would not mean to hurt either of you but the anger and frustration just builds up and he may lash out. i don't know what goes on in the mind of someone who is demented but i can imagine how one might feel when faced with an apparently unsolvable problem. imagine trying to assemble something when the only instructions are in Chinese.
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KMD.. dad is always yelling we are killing him... changeing clothes, shower, meds or eye drops... You name it. I try to sweet talk him sometimes.. others I just say the heck with it and try later!
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KMD welcome to A/C . you will find a great deal of similar situations to yours with caregivers here. Most people find they just have to be the bad guy when a loved one gets out of hand and try and redirect rather than trying to reason. Once the disease takes over all reasoning power is gone. In many ways you have to become the parent and put things that may cause trouble onto the high shelf like you would do with visiting grandchildren. Try not to take accusations personally it is just part of her frustration when she does not understand what is happening to her and just lashes out mindlessly. Just try and smile and say something like "sorry you feel that way now do you want the pink towel or rhe blue one today then i"ll rub your back with that good lotion you like after the shower" at the same time talk as you begin to take her clothes off and wrap her in a nice big towel while you get the water running at the right temperature. One thing you have going for you is that she is not very big.
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I have been reading the comments on this site, and at least I don't feel alone anymore. I was feeling very lost today, as my mother has been a handful today and accused me of trying to kill her when I wouldn't let her stay in the bathroom by her self. She is not very big, but is very feisty at times, and some days its a constant struggle to get done what needs to be done. I love her so much, but can't get thru to her that it is her that is changing, in so much as she is now the unruly child, and I cannot let her do things that would hurt her or others. She just keep asking me what happened to me, and why am I being so mean, when I have to curtail an activity that is getting out of hand. Not sure what the next step will be, but it has been very difficult.
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Well here we go again. Dad has been getting up and trying to roam around for the past 3 nights. Last night it was up 3 times in an hour and at midnight Mom said the heck with it and brought him downstairs. Luckily she can sleep in her recliner, and he stays put better because its colder downstairs. And he is not napping during the day, no change in routine. He has had a significant decline iin the past few months, and we have been on seraquel, then remoron. Today the removed one drug and we are going to try depakote as his moods have been horrible. Nasty and mean, threatening. Hubs lost his job a few weeks ago and is now home all day to see this, and he is losing his mind because he is afraid dad is going to hurt one of us.Meaning Mom or I. I am going to look into MC, somedays Mom is about ready for this and others not so much. Dr is slowly weaning dad off alot of his meds, we are in late stage, he is fighting his pills.. really what is the point of having that fight at this point? I bought a pill crusher today, he chews up the ones we get in anyway! Dr said that is fine. I keep haveing this horrible thought of how do the police, etc deal if a man with ALZ harms someone? Lets hope this new drug works for ahile, I would love to keep him here, but this stress is no good. When he is fine, he is sweet as pie, just talks nonstop nonsence.
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Also, normally it takes about 2 weeks for an anti-depressant to kick in.
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Did the directions on the bottle say take at night. Most anti-depressants are meant for the whole day and thus are usually taken in the morning. I suggest monitoring your reaction to this anti-depressant.

Which one is it and how big is the dose?

One possible side effect that you don't want with a anti-depressant is for it to kick you up to high.

Take care.
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Book some antidepressantzs shoulkd be taken in the morning because they cause sleeplessness.
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Took the first depression pill lastnight. I woke up with a slight ringing in my ear. If I take meds frequently, I tend to get the ringing. Woke up at 5am. I usually wake up but go back to sleep easily. Nope. I'm wide awake. Been tossing and turning trying to convince by body that it's sleepy. Didn't work. Yep, I'm wide awake. All well, it's finally 630am. Time to get up and start the day.
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Book, the best therapists have a lot of tools in their pockets. A well trained therapist, seeing you panic about role playing, would take time to uncover the source of that fear. Yes, you want someone eclectic. But someone who understands that it's not just insight, it's the ability to take action, that makes therapy a successful venture.

You know, there's a book you might enjoy. It's called August. I believe it's by Judith Rossner. I think you'd like it.
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Found my dad's checkbook it was in my purse all along. WHEW!! This is a purse I received for Christmas and I must have put in a different compartment and did not think of looking there. Dad's been doing pretty good at his AL I am glad I chose that room kitty corner from the activities room as he has really connected with the male activity director. Just wish the weather was nicer so I could take him out more. Soon enough as I told him we need help with a big project this spring.
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The person with Dementia and the Cluttered Closet. I've read here on AC how a parent will dress inappropriately and/or they keep wearing their dirty clothes. In the lesson, they showed a cluttered closet which had both winter and summer clothes, shoes, purses, all over the closet and on the floor. The person with Dementia mixes the clean and the dirty clothes. When it's time to dress up, they look at the cluttered closet and become overwhelmed or disoriented by all those stuff. They become agitated because they don't know what to choose. Sometimes just giving up and refusing to change their clothes.

Solution? Think of the person with D's background. Before she had dementia, what was her habit of choosing clothes? If she used to choose her clothes the night before, then we will continue this. First of all, get rid of as much distraction or unnecessary items in the closet. Keep it simple - like only for clothes - more simple, like only summer clothes. Put away the winter clothes. Next, have her choose the clothes she will wear tomorrow, and Hang it behind the door. If the door is white, and her clothes have color, she will easily see her red dress hanging against the white door. No confusion, no distraction. Red dress against white door. This will continue to give her independence to choose her own clothes. That was the first scenario.
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Sounds like you are making progress on your list.

CBT does tend to be difficult because of its focus on dealing with the present by living in the now.

A CBT therapist tends to want to know more how can we put the fire out today than who started the fire yesterday and how did they start it which tends to be more short term. Who started the fire yesterday and how did they start it is what psychoanalytic therapy does which takes much longer.I'm over simplifying, but you get the basic idea. Some therapists, like mine, tend to be a bit eclectic in selecting parts from each school of therapy to use with their clients, but the ultimate goal of a CBT is helping you deal with and live in the present.

Since you already have so much self-awareness, it will be helpful to communicate this to the therapist that you select so that they will know where you are and can make whatever adjustments they need to make in their approach as a therapist in meeting you where you are and then guiding you in taking small steps in a new direction at the pace you are open to moving at.

You are making progress. Google on, think it all over and when you are ready, I'm sure you will make some good choices.
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It's okay Cmag...I've been busy googling. Please feel free to post about something else. Gives me a chance to avoid making decisions on something that I much rather not do. I like your Second - about even making the smallest choices like baby steps in a NEW direction....

2 of the male listed specializes with childhood and teens. 1 female - I know her and she's related to my boss' wife! So she's out. Thanks for the tip about CBT. Ahem.. that was what my last therapist was working on. More like for me to confront people when I'm not happy instead of holding it in. All she had to do was mention role-playing, and I panicked. She saw it, too, on my face. She was amazed that only just her mentioning it - made me panic. I think CBT will be very difficult for me - like dragging the horse to the drinking trough but not being able to force it to drink the water. Have to go now.
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