On My Mind

Shell, I haven't followed all the individual stories and directions on this thread but just happened to read yours, that very sad yet wise and insightful plea of your mother.    It brought tears to my eyes.   This woman is making an assessment far more insightful and realistic than that of her doctor and yet the doctor apparently either doesn't realize that or can't admit it.

I think medical people who acknowledge a situation realistically and make suggestions for moving on are fairly rare, but I think also that that maturity and wisdom comes with practice, and aging, and perhaps personal experience.

I don't have any suggestions, but if you feel it appropriate, tell her she has an admirer and someone who really feels she's special, even though I've never met her.

Oh, Shell, your Mom needs a Palliative care doctor.

Your Mom is right where I am. She's ready to go.
I am an old nurse with now Atrial Fib for 10 years come this next January. I always refused blood thinners? Do you know why? Because as a nurse I saw more death from blood thinners than from anything else. Everything from abdominal bleeds to brain hemorrhage. I take an Aspirin a day. At 78 here I still am.
I had breast cancer 34 years ago. I have chosen not to take mammograms ever again. First of all, I am willing to go, and I found all of my lumps on my own when mammograms were negative. Secondly I would treat now only with lumpectomy. I am 78 and ready to go. Would ask for the good drugs.

Do you know what MY doctor said ? "Well, you understand that Kaiser follows the recommended guideline for recommendations regarding testing. We will continue to send you notices that you "should" get these tests, as that is our protocol, but I UNDERSTAND you, and understand that you have these well thought out decisions made. Let's do your POLST to hand on refrig or closet door so EMTs don't try to bring you back if you go". And we sat and did it.
My doctor understands that I am ready to go, and only fear being tortured to death by the medical community.

Now, do I look both ways when I cross the street? Sure. Do I get my flu shot? You BETCHA. Will I be beating other old ladies out of the line so I am first for Coronavirus vaccine? I SURE WILL. But I will not take further testing (other than to measure the efficacy of my levothyroxine for Hashimoto's hypothyroid). I don't measure cholesterol, or anything else now. My advanced directive forbids the administration of any artificial feedings, or CPR, of ventilator. If I got Covid I would ask for the good drugs and no treatment with ventilator.

I have had a WONDERFUL life. I was born to the best parents ever. I had the best bro. While a few husbands I found wanting I am now for 35 years with such a good good guy. I have had no major illnesses aside the cancer and I survived it with great good luck. I have always felt able. I have never wanted. I loved my career as a nurse. And I am READY.

I hope your Mom seeks a doctor who does specialize in Palliative care and she will then be listened to. It does recognize she doesn't want to go on. While we cannot in our country (yet) allow for euthanasia on request, as we can in some countries, she needs to be treated as someone who has a rational voice.And rational wishes. It disturbs me when/if doctors don't listen.
Be sure to explain to Mom that palliative care is only for her comfort, and all that testing and medication will be out of the way, but SOME MEDS will stay in order to keep her comfort. There is a difference between prolonging our lives and making the lives we must continue to live comfortable.

Thank goodness for your support and understanding of your Mom. Thank goodness for Palliative care (I was appalled that in the Desert Regional Medical Center, a HUGE hospital, teaching hospital in Palm Springs, had NO palliative care program. The doc who was the resident for my bro was being TRAINED as a Pallative Care doctor, and yet they did not yet have this program. The United States needs to CATCH UP.). Be sure it is explained to Mom. No treatments. No extending her life. Just making her comfortable. Making the life she must continue to live as good as it can be made. And then progression to hospice when it is needed.

Shell,
The other thing is that all this has allowed you to see your Mother as a suffering human being, who suffered also from severe limitations in being able to care for you. And you are caring for HER despite what you went through, and learning a deep and solid compassion that is going to help you moving forward in your life more than you can even guess. I think when our parents live long enough for us to see them as human beings, and not just parents, it is a gift to us.
My Dad was such a good and wonderful dad, but I will never forget when he told me how "tired" he was, that he only wanted the peace of endless sleep, that he tried to get up for my Mom and get on the scale and to eat, but he was exhausted, had had a good life, and only wanted sleep.

(((((shell))))) This such a difficult time in a person's life and the lives of their loved ones.. You are wise to plan for both your mother passing and her surviving. From my experience I think what she needs and probably wants is palliative care. My mother was on that the past couple of years if her life. They treated any pain she had, continued her thyroid meds but that was about it. She was on an antidepressant at one point to help her feel better. Prayers and blessings for you and all as you enter this next phase in your mum's and your life. It's not easy.

Golden,
My mother doesn't want palliative care. I think she and I are not sure what palliative care is exactly or what they do. She is afraid they will extend her life and make her do things she doesn't want.

Thank you Golden for your hugs, support, and for your wisdom. ❤🐈


Alva,
Thank you so much for your input, knowledge and your own story. I will have to figure this out. But it sounds like from what Golden and you are explaining that this is the next step towards hospice. She doesn't want Tx, but I want her to be comfortable. I have a lot to think about. About the blood thinners: my mother is a bleeder and she nor I can not get it through any of her Drs (past ones and this new one) that she will bleeded out. Thank you for understanding!💗


Garden,
Her cardiologist is semi retired and so my mother saw his fill in Dr who is a physician assistant who is in her early 20's so she doesn't get it. My mother is afraid that the medical professionals will keep her alive. But I won't let that happen. If she wants to go I won't stop her and I refuse to let her suffer. Thank you so much for your kind words and your support. I'll past your message on to my mother, it will make her feel better.


NHWM,
Thank you for your insight and support. My mother is was really never a good mom, but your right she is a product of her environment. Her mother hated her and she hates me. The only way I broke the cycle is because I made the choice to not have kids. I too suffer from PTSD. Thank you!💗


Thank you ladies. I have a feeling it is going to be a rough road ahead of me and I will need all the support I can get.❤💗❣

No, Shell. Look up palliative care. They do NOT want to extend life. They want to make the life left the best it can be. They advocate things to be treated, Urinary tract infections, lungs filling with fluid due to CHF, and etc. Pain medications. But they do NOT adocate for countless visits, tests, referrals to specialist and etc. Palliative care is easy to look up online. Research it so that Mom gets COMFORT but no prolonging of misery.

shell -what alva says. Look it up.
Mother was on palliative care and they didn't make her do anything. It is basically comfort care, not to extend life but to make what is left of life as comfortable as possible. When she got a fever they gave her tylenol to keep her comfortable If she had gotten an infection they said they would have given her antibiotics to keep her more comfortable, She stayed in her facility and was visited periodically by the house doctor, She never had to go out to any appointments. Once you are on palliative care those stop and many treatments and meds stop. From what you wrote this is what your mother wants. It allows her to wind down naturally, and without suffering.

I am wondering if you are not ready for her to go to this next phase of her life. It sounds like she is. ((((((((hugs)))))))) This is so tough and scary,

Shell,

Some of us have children. Some don’t. I believe that you broke the cycle because that is inherently who you are!

I don’t believe for one minute if you had children that you would be like your mom. You’re nothing like her.

My sweet mother in law had a mother from hell! She was a fabulous mom to her sons.

I was nothing like my mom when I raised my daughters. I take that back. I passed on the good parts that I learned and tossed aside the rest.

My mom is such a freakin perfectionist! My kids still laugh how when they were young and they were paranoid about coloring outside the lines around her! LOL

No joke! She would stress out if my girls went outside of the lines just a smidge.

She was loving to my girls though and I would explain to my girls that grandma was extra picky! They took it in stride.

Shell,

There are some organizations that will offer palliative care and merge into hospice care later. I was looking into that for my mom.

Now she is with my brother and is on hospice. I have no idea what program he chose. I wish her well.

I call and speak to her about neutral topics only.

When I closed the door on caregiving I shut it tightly. I let go completely. I did it for 15 years. That’s enough. Let him deal with all the details now.

Who Dat! Geaux NOLA Saints! Go Taysom Hill!

I am a huge Drew fan but this new guy playing for Drew since his injury is incredible! Love him!

We are playing the Falcons today.

The team has been on a hot streak lately. Hoping they keep it up!

Oh my gosh, nail biting game! We won though. Who Dat!

So I did some research on palliative care and talked to my mother today and she said, "she'll think about it," which means no! I even use Golden's phase about PC would let her wine down naturally. I also used Alva terms that PC doesn't want to extend her life; they just want to make her comfortable, but I am afraid my mother is going to dig her heels in and not budge. On the plus side, the PC order is good for a year. I told her everything, how the Dr comes here, how there is no real Tx. How they will manage her meds and her pain. How they would give her antibiotics if she needs it just for her comfort, but she won't have it.

I have to wonder if my mother has so much self hatred that she punishes herself. Because I never can get her to do something even if, it is for her own good. It has always been that way, she will fight me on everything! I will try again at a later time!

Ugh!!!

Alva, I have been thinking about what you said that "compassion will serve me well." I don't see how having compassion will serve me well.. Where I am from compassion is viewed as a weakness. However, you were a nurse for many years and that tells me that you have been around all types of people and perhaps you know something that I don't. Perhaps, this is another life's lesson. I have a feeling that you are right, compassion may serve me well.

Shell,

Give her a minute to process it.

How’s her eyesight? Can she read fine print? My mom struggles to read small print.

If she can read you can leave literature lying around for her to read the information herself.

NHWM,
My mother is losing her eye sight and her hearing. But you're right, she probably does need some time to process the information. I feel as much as I am at a crossroad so is she!

NobodyGetsIt,
I have not seen you posting for awhile. Hope everything is ok. How is your mom?
I tried to send you a message but was unable. Hope you both had a nice Thanksgiving.

"December 7, 1941 – a date which will live in infamy," President Franklin D. Roosevelt famously proclaimed.

Shell, try this. Tell her "Mom, if you end up accidentally in the hospital, if you have a palliative care MD they will LET YOU ALONE and send you home. Otherwise it could end with more needles, more tests. The Palliative Care MD is the one who keeps the other MDs off your door mat".
Then let her process it a while. If she DOES end up in care again say "This could all have been prevented by a palliative care MD to hold them off with a shotgun". She may agree, and she may not. And to be honest, no MD or palliative care MD the outcome is the same. Ready to go and will be taken when the next thing comes along. I think for yourself, now come to peace with the fact that you will not call anyone. I would ask her to make out an advanced directive directing she does not wish to go to a hospital now under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES even if this should be a cause of her death. Because to be honest, if your Mom strokes at home and you simple do nothing there would be questions. I know you can answer them likely to the satisfaction of all, and your Mom has ALREADY GOT ON RECORD with her MD the fact she now wants to go.
This is hard, but you and Mom are speaking about it, and Shell, you have no idea how RARE that is, how good that is. You are coming to agreement and to peace and this is such a blessing right now. I think you are doing EVERYTHING right in this matter.

Send,

It’s also the day my husband proposed to me and I received my engagement ring!

Alva,
I will tell her what you have said to me, but I have a feeling that she has dug her heels in and won't budge. I will try in a day or two. I made my mother fill out a Advanced Directive Directing and it is on file at the hospital and I have the original copy. In the ADD, it does state that she doesn't want anything done even if it causes her death. She knows that I have to cover my butt because I have medical training and could lose my license. She also knows that she has the right to refuse Tx. I am really trying to come to peace with not making any calls and that I can not do CPR on her...that one is going to be hard! My mother has always been upfront about what she wants when it comes to her health and what she wanted when her time comes to an end. It is a blessing that her and I have come to agreement, but it sure isn't easy! Thank you Alva for letting me know that I am doing this correctly. I needed to read that!!

'Tis the seventy ninth anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Rest In Peace, John Lennon. It’s hard to believe he was murdered 40 years ago today.

He has always been my favorite Beatle.

John Winston Ono Lennon was a musical genius whose life was cut down at The Dakota Apartment Building, NYC while he and Yoko returned from a recording studio 40 years ago.

Reminder: Use your parents OTC Health Insurance Benefits by Dec. 31st.
Grab their health insurance card and phone to see if they have used this benefit to get them free over-the-counter medications, products, etc. FUN!

Masks, toothpaste, first aid kit, Depends, all sorts of OTC pharmacy items.
Spread the word....

shell - the only ones who could convince my mother of anything were the professionals. When she was in a geriatric psychiatric hospital being diagnosed they were the ones who got her to agree to the meds she needed for delusions and also to choose a facility for herself. She then realized she was depressed and saw her doctor and got meds for that. Your mum sounds depressed. By the time it came to consider palliative care my mother was bedridden in that facility. I was asked at one point if I wanted her included in the care meetings and I said no. Her condition was discussed and everyone agreed palliative care was the best route to take. A palliative care doctor visited her and chatted with her afterwards. I wasn't there for that.

Your mother is still mobile but she has stated her wishes. Mother too always said "no extraordinary measures". Her doctor has heard your mother. Maybe the doctor can chat with your mum some time. Are you able to talk with your mum's doctor apart from her being there?

I know it is hard accepting these stages in decline in our LO. .We all have to work through that in our own way and our own time. ((((((((hugs)))))))

I am a huge Grinch fan! The original one!!! Did NOT like the Jim Carey version of the show. Didn’t see the recent movie that was out.

Now there is a musical on NBC tonight. Debating on whether to watch it... I am a purist when it comes to Grinch!

Golden,
Her Dr tried to talk to her about palliative care and my mother got so upset she was crying. My mother kept telling the Dr that she has no quality of life and no future and the Dr was trying to tell my mother that is why she needs palliative care to make her comfortable and she wouldn't have to go out to see a Dr. However, the Dr had no luck and neither do I. The Dr and I can not get it through her head that she is depress and palliative care could help with that.

If fact, I try yesterday to tell my mother what Alva said in her last post and I even explained to my mother that if she doesn't see a Dr or choose palliative care then she may miss out on having hospice care because she will need a Dr to order it. My mother came back with, "Oh well."

She is now accusing me that I am trying to extend her life and I am not following her wishes! She does not understand that palliative care does not extend life, but that they just give her regular meds and keep other Drs and the hospital at bay. She went on to say, "if I keep bring up palliative care that she will call the cops on me and have me remove from her house." It is cold here and my sig-other and myself have no where to go and not enough money to get a place right now.

Golden, you said it best " you can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved, but you sure can wreck your own life trying" and I have already been down that road. My mother fights me on everything, even if it is her own good and she has always been this way. I do not have the energy to fight this battle. As some has said on this forum "our LOs has the right to make poor decisions." I am truly at a loss! She it a true self-destructive, know it all narcissistic person. She always has to have everything her way.


I just want to thank you Golden, Alva, NHWM, Send, Garden, and everyone that have been supported, given me much needed advice. But I just have to let this go for now because I know what I am up against when it comes to my mother. I have learned in life that sometimes you just have to let the chips fall where they may. If my mother ends up in the hospital for whatever reason then so be it! I truly tried! ❤💚

Haileybug, make that a FAUX fur, please! I am afraid you are watching too many commercials. Have you seen the one with the young couple standing in the snow. He whistles out for HER present which is a cute but huge burnese mountain dog puppy; then she whistles for HIS and up comes a big GMC pickup. I just look at that and think, with the monthly bill for that truck and that puppy peeing everywhere this is just the START of their new year!
Shell, I would give up on Mom and the Palliative now. It is become a fight or argument and she is retreating more and more into her corner. I think there is still some fear in all of that. I would just let nature take its course now. I can't remember, but did you tell us she has an advanced directive done already, refusing the extension of life care she doesn't want? That would be a good idea, even if just a paper she does and signs, saying she never wants IV fluid nutrition, tube feeding, ventilators, CPR and etc. This would be honored, esp. since she already had "the conversation" with her doctor, and he basically understands where she is in her own head. Just leave the subject for now unless she herself brings it up. Try a little humor with her. I told my Dad "I promise, I will stand between the doctors and YOU with a SHOTGUN". He loved that; it made him laugh so.

Alva,

I am with you on faux fur, all the way! I find furs disgusting!

My husband and I still are sickened by his grandmother’s love of furs. She owned five fur coats! They were in style then.

She was extremely wealthy! Obviously, his grandmother wasn’t an animal lover.

Once she told me to get rid of my cat because she thought the cat would jump in my baby’s crib and smother my daughter!

She believed in all sorts of old wives tales.

She left one of fur coats to me after her death. I refused it.

She treated her housekeeper horribly! The housekeeper loved furs! I gave it to her.

We giggled at the thought of his grandmother being upset that he housekeeper was wearing her luxurious fur!

It barely gets cold enough to wear a fur here.

The housekeeper cranked up the air conditioning to wear it. LOL

She told me that she was going to wear it everywhere and that the ladies at her church would be jealous of it. Crazy!

NeedHelp, I heard something interesting. I was kind of sad when UK got out of the EU, but they said one thing that I loved. They can now refuse to import fur. There are many fur farms, esp. in Eastern Europe. The European Union didn't really allow for refusing by law import of furs. Now they can go for it.
I still remember when my Sunday New York Times was full of furs at this season. None now. Sure is going out of vogue. I remember my mother way back in the 40s had furs. Remember a black lamb coat and the WEIRD fox neck thingie. She came soon enough to loathe that whole industry for certain.
Hailey, I recommend some of the commercials for your viewing enjoyment. Sometimes it's better than the series. OMG that "Chance" thing on Hulu was AWFUL and I hung in yelling at Hugh Laurie (who once I loved) for being a stupid idiot. Don't recommend. But the commercials were OK. Hee hee.

I love fur. I think it is glorious.

But I love it so much more when it is on its original owner that I hardly even regret not being able to wear it (though I still do, a twinge).

Ivory and tortoiseshell are very beautiful as well but I would rather look at my dressing table and be reasonably sure that no animals were harmed in the making of my personal clutter.

I'm bloody annoyed about coral, though. I thought they could farm it nowadays - why's it banned???