The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

Again, CM you are so right. I think when I stopped attending the grief counselling I mentioned, the pastor was probably relieved. I made him uncomfortable cause when he pointedly said, "I don't counsel women on a one to one basis cause people might get the wrong idea" I responded, I don't get that type of thinking. Didn't Jesus let a prostitute wash his feet and then dry them with her hair.? Big silence ..................I think I heard crickets in that room. I never went back after that night and no one called to inquire on my well being.

And another thing, I never asked him to counsel me on a one to one basis anyhow. So why he brought that up is beyond me.

Well I am back from a 5 day trip to the shore with hubs and FIL. As mom is visiting Aunt and family from TX, and you have all heard the stories about BIL leaving FIL home alone while he and wife go on vacay.. I thought this would be a good trip with just hubs, and daughter for few days.. NOPE! He invited his dad because this could be his "last trip" to see the places he loved 30 years ago. I get it, and I was gracefull about it.. BUT.. This is one grumpy old man! HE is 95, and he bitched about everything! Where we ate, what we ate, how different everything was from 30 years ago. We stay at a friends beautiful home, he was jealous it was nicer than his home here, kept saying how they have "too much stuff" and looking for their bar ( they don't drink), and I am so very careful when I am there ( although they consider us family ) and so try to keep it perfect! And I never heard him swear so much in my life.. I actually made a comment about it. My hubs tried so hard to plan things he could do.. I am so very glad to be home, and we have a new appreciation for my Mom, who can be grumpy but NOTHING like this!

Gershun - the problem with going to a pastor/priest for counselling is I'm pretty certain I already know what they are going to say - all that talk about trusting in god's wisdom and taking it to him in prayer and believing that heaven is a better place. If you find that isn't working you end up with a sense of guilt that your faith isn't strong enough to overcome your problems so you can end up feeling worse than when you started.

PZ, I am HOME too! I guess I shouldn't complain about too many people. But, wait. What would be worse a conference with 500 people or a grumpy old man at the shore for five days? HMMM, have to think about that for awhile.

Yes, I am home. Very relieved to be here. Drive was fine. Returned to chilly weather, it was warmer in the mountains.

Checked on my house, so much for major progress. The interior is painted, the driveway was poured.... Cabinets still in garage, maple flooring in boxes inside. Maybe next week? The paint looks great! Stopped by decorator and chose grout color for tile.

I really think the church is creating a place that makes women feel like they are unwelcome. The church needs to have women in leader who can counsel.

Since my husband died 5 months ago, I do not feel very welcome in church. We both had attended this church since early childhood. My husband had felt for several years that we weren’t very welcome because we were a couple without children. Now I feel it is because I am a woman alone. I have been looking at other churches in my community. So far I have not found a church that offers anything exclusively for unmarried women.

Why do you think that women are unwelcome in the church? I've been considering attending a local church in my new neighborhood but now am reconsidering after what I've been reading here. Maybe, I won't be welcome there.

All churches are different. They're a bit like people that way, in my opinion -- they're unique to themselves. Give it a try, Gershun, you have nothing to lose but a couple of hours... or even 10 minutes if you walk in and instantly don't like it. You could walk right back out. But give it a try.

O tempora o mores! - Gershun, what that pastor said about one to one counselling had nothing to do with you and everything to do with current news headlines. It's a sign of the times.

And it's been going on quite a while now - fifteen or sixteen years ago I hired a tutor for my daughter and her best friend, who'd taken it into their contrary teenage heads to learn Ancient Greek, and among the first things he said to me was "I will not have pupils set foot in my house." Well! The man was as gay a maypole, for a start, and well over fifty, and besides I wouldn't have given life insurance to anyone who tried to lay an unwelcome finger on either of those girls; but I took his point. If you are seen never to be in unsupervised communication with anyone you cannot be the subject of suspicion or accusation.

Which must make life a bit difficult in the confessional. But that is more than I know.

Thinking of the comments about feeling unwelcome in the church, are we talking about the church or the congregation, or not making a distinction? Only last week I was listening to two bright and lovely ladies bitching - sorry, but they were - about what a bully another lady in their Talmud class was. Attending places of worship and religious study evidently does not in itself make people any better behaved than they are at, say, the local swimming baths.

But ministers are like doctors for the soul. Especially in that it's not reasonable to expect them to understand you as a patient until they've got to know you a bit.

Also in that some are better than others at things like talking and listening. But they can't turn you away.

I thought the problem I was having was unique to my area, not churches in general. In my area there seems to be a trend to cater, almost exclusively to young families or young singles. Older members are on the margins, with older women even more on the margins. But I hope I can find a church if I keep looking.

Gershun, I would try the church you were looking into attending. You may have found a good fit for you and you won’t know if you ndon’t give it a try.

My church has changed in many ways over the years. I was christened in this church at five months. I’m 59 yrs old. It’s changed geographical location. Big change in doctrine. It went from being affiliated with a traditional conference within the denomination to joining an evangelical conference (this was by congregational vote).

That IS your church, UsedupDIL. It makes me really sad to think of established communities being ousted by incomers. You can see the church's point of view - young families mean more members for longer - but I think they make a mistake both about how they're perceived and even more importantly what they're for if they don't make an effort to include everyone who wants to belong there.

I'm very carefully staying out of the politics of it (anyway, I mean, not just for forum rules) but there was a t.v. story about a church in a small town which has become a one-stop rescue centre for refugees. The work it's doing is important and certainly Christian, and I don't argue with that for a moment. What did make me purse my lips was the attitude of the young (to me, i.e. under forty?) lady vicar when she was asked about her existing congregants. There were not many of them. And they were all very old and had been coming to this church all their lives. And having services read in Armenian or whatever it was, and unfamiliar liturgy, and music they couldn't recognise as such, was upsetting them quite a lot. I expect they wouldn't have minded so much if room had been found for both forms of prayer, and if not *all* of the traditional furniture had been removed to accommodate clothing and food banks; but as it was they were made to feel not only rejected but narrow-minded for not enjoying the change. And the vicar had, or at least showed, not a shred of sympathy or understanding for them. It was very sad.

I bet you are not the only person in your age bracket who feels as you do, you know. Have you asked around? This is your church. Room has to be made for everyone. Before you vote with your feet - argue!

Countrymouse, Thank you for the comments. I live in an area where the population has declined with people migrating south for better weather and jobs. The area I live in is notorious for the high snowfall and cold weather off the Great Lakes. The church needs the younger people. Maybe us oldies need to band together to make our voices heard. I know the church looks to more senior members for the financial support we provide. I know this because I’m an accountant by profession and I work on the church financial committee. I also know how often and how much I am asked for money. The church hired a youth minister a couple of years go. Perhaps we need a minister for seniors. In a nearby town I saw where they had a minister who specialized in seniors.

You guys, I'm home. This is my first night in my own home since those three weekends I got in January, and my first night permanently home since April 2017.

I know I haven't been around much. The time leading up to mom's death, and the time after....I dunno. It's been chaotic but it's also been....I guess I've needed a break from talking about caregiving, or reading about it.

But tonight I'm home, and it's like....I feel high being home. I'm not even drinking or drugging. I just feel high.

This has been a bit of a hell week for me. Brother dumped the Executor work in my lap, but he's not bowed out completely. He's elected to be in "reserve," meaning he can step back in and micromanage at any time. Yes, things have gone off the rails with him and I. And we were doing so well.

Things WERE going well. Then I had the temerity to ask the lawyer if there's any chance of getting an advance on the Estate, since I've been mom's full-time caregiver the last year and a half, so I don't have a job yet, and I'm pretty darned broke right now. I think I embarrassed bro. He turned around and gave me three separate lectures (one on the phone and two on e-mail) about my irresponsible lifestyle....basically how he's the ant and I'm the grasshopper, and it's time to become the ant before I become a destitute old lady. And also I need to let go of this torch I'm carrying for the past.

That was Monday. I never replied to the e-mails (which came after the phone thing), and we haven't been in touch since. My first mental reaction was, "Lol, wut?" But it's just made me madder and madder all week. Especially since everything's been dumped on me since mom died. What to do with the body, the funeral arrangements, dealing with her bank accounts and investments, the will and the lawyer, and now being Executor and also all of mom's belongings. Fancy getting a lecture on responsibility by the person dumping all the responsibility on you!!!!!

You know what p'd me off about the whole lecture on "the inheritance" and my financial life is....I'm getting by, I have zero debt, and I do have a plan. He KNOWS I have a plan. It's a pretty good plan. It's right about in the middle of what my brother would do and what 23-year old me would do. (Except that I'm not 23, I'm 49, and I'm not stupid, either.) A lot of his lecture included things that are actually in my plan. And, no, it's not exactly what he would do......because we have different values and goals. But it's still a good plan, and I actually feel pretty confident about my future.

Also I have no idea what torch he thinks I'm carrying for the past. I really have no idea where he gets this. He actually knows nothing about me or my life. We have barely spoken in 10 years. But when I mentioned this torch-carrying accusation to my friends, every one of them did the screwed up their faces and said the equivalent of, "Lol, wut?"

Things were going so well, too. Sigh.

Anyway, that's that for my family, I think. The connection to my brother was tenuous at best, but I'm not truly sad to be seeing the end of it ahead. He has no idea what my life is. He's not interested in learning. He's not the least bit accepting of the idea that us having different values and goals is okay. Also he has no friends and I think I FINALLY understand why. Holy crap, the guy visited mom twice in three years - for timespans of a few hours, not days, and never offered to spell me off once - and then lectures me on personal responsibility?

Best guy friend, who is my spiritual brother, is the only one among my friends still trying to make me not give up on my brother. "You're not going to just never talk to him again, though, right?" "You know, that lecture is the same lecture I get all the time, being a musician. ALL THE TIME." But BGF comes from the Cleaver family. He will never get it. He will never understand that blood family is NOT always the most important thing in one's life.

More.....

Anyway, this is so long I've had to start a second post, so I won't go on and on too long, lol. Feels a bit selfish to just post about me and run! But I do feel so connected to you all, I don't want to just disappear altogether from the forum. I feel now that I'm home, things will finally settle down for me. I can do all the Estate work at mom's, and work through her belongings there, and treat it like a job....and still come home at the end of the day, back to my real home. 

Home is where the cats are. Carmella, my 14-year old girl, settled in right away. I moved her "sleeping chairs" (my two armchairs), so she has been testing out which location she prefers. I think by the window. Bruce is a bit confused and less sure of himself, but I brought the big cat treehouse back home along with the cats, so that seems to make sense to him.  After living his first year basically in a hermetically-sealed skybox, tonight he encountered a HUGE spider for the first time, running across the living room carpet. HUGE like the universe put it there for him - easy first prey. Well, he killed it, and he put it in his mouth a few times, but he refused to eat it. Such an urban innocent.

Tomorrow I am doing a "phone meeting" with a friend in Kelowna, who happens to be a CPA. I'm hoping she can help me sort through the "lawyer-ese" on the representation agreement before I sign it, and also help me by doing the tax stuff. And also I'm making potato and bacon soup. Apparently the element on my oven is broken. I haven't used it since 2017! So I can only cook on the stove....might as well be the dish I'm most famous for. 

I am having a very small potluck tomorrow, actually. October 1 is my 22nd anniversary in my own little riverside "shack." So it's a "house re-warming." Just best guy friend, BFF and her hubby, and hopefully my old property maintenance boss, who is also my awesome friend (and a landlord, from whom I will need lots of advice if I am going to be an investment property owner). I'll have the soup and drinks ready. BFF found fresh corn and watermelon at a farm stand, and is trying to think of a meat dish. BGF is a starving musician but French loaves are like two bucks at Safeway, lol. 

I am so happy to be home. I don't even care how chaotic or shabby things still are (or seem) at home - I just want to enjoy my own space again, and share that feeling with my closest friends, the ones who were there for me throughout the caregiving. I want to put my space back together, and rebuild my life, and plan for my future as a destitute old lady/artist/landlord. 

I feel sad for my brother, that he thinks this life is somehow an invalid one.

About not fitting in with the group or being weird, that's how I felt whenever I attended a few times of the monthly caregiver's group. People told their stories and cried. I was .. not. It seemed that what I was going through, they were not. Plus I was too ashamed to tell out loud that my dad verbally/physically abused me and bedridden mom... There was that one time a newcomer attended the meeting. She was taking care of her elderly husband (she's younger than him). She had raised her hand and asked if it's normal to 'lose time'. She would forget hours and not even know it. I gasped and whispered to her, "You too!!!" She turned and whispered some examples. I nodded emphatically and said that I sometimes had 100% no memory of it happening - that very morning of the event! The guest speaker then asked if anyone else in the group were experiencing what the 2 of us were going through. No one. The speaker emphatically urged both of us to seek therapy. {scoff!} As if we had time between our full time job and caregiving. Yes, she too was a full-time worker - but at home... I always made a point to attend the meeting if it's educational - like lawyer, Medicare, how to sponge bathe a bedridden person, etc... I just wasn't into the verbal sharing of what I was going through.

Therapy doesn't work for me. I refuse to give up pieces of myself out of fear of remembering my deeply hidden past.

Book, this bit: "The guest speaker then asked if anyone else in the group were experiencing what the 2 of us were going through. No one."

No one? Tchah! Yes lots - but nobody was willing to stand up and be counted in front of the others once they knew the group's attention was on them (or they hadn't been listening to the question and certainly didn't want to admit to that).

I love that the speaker's solution to your difficulty in keeping track of time was you should both make appointments to see a therapist (spot the obvious flaw in that plan..?).

I've learned that if I go to a pastor/religious leader for counseling, they will always tell me to pray to God, read the Bible and He will answer me. But I mustn't expect Him to answer me the way I want. It will be His way. And so I must be open to whatever it is that happens. Because God does answer but we're not seeing it because we're expecting something else as the solution. Heck! All of my family knows that I don't get hints or subtlety. They've learned to just ask straight out or tell me straight out because any hints goes right over my head.

Today, niece (oldest sis' daughter) said that she's yearning for spiritual stuff but she's not getting it from her current religion. She asked me for recommendation. Wrong person to ask. I told her that I'm having the same problem with my religion. I want to attend a religion that would refresh my soul. So we both made a deal. If either one of us finds one, we would tell the other. She was thinking of joining my religion! I definitely persuaded her Not!!! {{{ shudder }}} I think .. it's almost time for them to do one of their 'unannounced' visits. My mind has been thinking of it lately. Whenever my mind locks on this, that means they will be coming soon. sigh.. headache coming on... They really stress me out. Religion shouldn't do that to their members... One day .. I will find a nice refreshing religion.

"Perhaps we need a minister for seniors."

HEAR, HEAR!!! YES! GET ONE!

Dorianne...

You are doing incredibly well.

You did not, for example, get incandescent with rage, go round to your brother's house and deck him the moment he opened the door. Must have been tempting, no?

Or...

"Thank you so much for your advice. I am having it transcribed and framed just in case any of it might slip my mind."

Meanwhile, to return to the actual question: unless there are substantial outstanding debts owing or owed, there should be no reason why an equal advance should not be paid to both of you; but what did the lawyer say? And apart from his budgeting tips, did dearest bro have any meaningful objection to this obvious cash flow solution?

Book, I'm not absolutely sure you want God getting blunt with you. On all the occasions when He has sent a particularly clear message I don't think people have liked it over much.

Lots of ministers of all types seem to recommend sitting still as a good first step, when it comes to refreshing the soul. I haven't heard one say how helpful it is when people come and bang on the door and roust you out, though. I know it's difficult, especially in a tight-knit community, to tell people to sod off and leave you in peace without giving offence, but can you perhaps tell them that at the moment you are not ready for their visits and you are sure they would not want to intrude?

You know that an executor can be paid for the work the do Dorianne so I would seriously consider keeping track and submitting a bill to the estate, and considering you haven't been earning during your care years the tax burden wouldn't even be a consideration. Bro shouldn't share equally when he has left it all to you right from the start.

But... But.. CM! You're across the pond! Well... Come to think of it, I'm also across the pond. Yes, we need a minister that crosses multi-national boundaries or lines.

I can relate to feeling out of place in groups. I think since everything with mom, I have become more reclusive myself. Mainly just due to being tired physically, mentally and emotionally. I'm introverted anyway, but I used to get out and socialize more often than I do at present.

I'm Christian and I pray, but I haven't been to my church a lot lately. I used to attend quite a bit, but for the reasons described above, I just can't motivate myself to go. Nothing against anyone there. I love many of the people, but I find it's just being around groups of people in general. I don't feel depressed, just tired. And when anyone asks how I'm doing, friends included, there are just a very few who would and do understand what it's like with my mom. And of course, you guys here, which I'm grateful for.

I also suffer a bit I think from social anxiety. I had a friend pass away this week. I hadn't seen her in person for about 5 years, as she lived in a different town, but she and I stayed in touch by phone and online and we last talked back in July. She and I had supported one another through some hard times, and her health lately had not been good.

So the funeral is later this afternoon and I have really been going back and forth with myself on whether or not to go. Is that bad? It's just, I don't know, I do know a few people that will be there, but I didn't know her family well. We were work friends initially and then stayed in touch through the years after I left the job. I'm honestly anxious about attending. Part of me feels I should go to pay my respects, but another part of me feels awkward.

Frazzled, go if you can possibly bear to.

If your friend's family only notices you in passing, or don't even see you individually, you will still be adding to the total tribute she is getting.

You will have performed a mitzvah, which is good karma (cramming in all the cultures, here!).

Not even if you are the most self-critical person will you later be able to beat yourself up for failing to carry out a duty. Being there is the only requirement. You do not have to give a sermon, or be ready with the perfect words of comfort.

Similarly if there's a book to sign - just put 'in gratitude' or something and sign it. There is no such thing as pithy or original, and/but there is no such thing as wrong either. Unless you have a brainstorm and try to compose a Limerick on the spot or something, obviously - but you are not going to do that, are you.

And if you need to give yourself a run-up to face a congregation, tell yourself you will set off and if it's really too much you can always turn around and come home again.

I personally reach for the nearest prayer book and look absorbed, if I haven't got anyone to talk to. You learn more about the lunar calendar like that than you'd ever have guessed there was to know.

Gosh you all are busy this morning! Will stop in later, I need to get up, check in with contractor maybe give notice to landlord. Saturday coffee and egg pie. No WiFi at coffee shop.😕

Dori great you are home!

Countrymouse, Got up this morning and decided to be proactive. I called 14 other senior women and invited them over this evening for a potluck to discuss our needs at church. See if anyone has any suggestions, any desire to hire a senior minister, etc. Maybe we’ll have some good ideas on what direction to take.

It does say somewhere in the Bible "Wherever two or more are gathered in my Name" so if I could just find one other person out there to gather with, we could sit and discuss Jesus and the Bible and that could be my Church.

I may still visit this Church in my neighborhood but what I would hope to have happen is just to blend in. I'd rather that than to have the church welcoming committee sign me up to bring the cookies for after service the next week.

There needs to be a happy medium there. Spare me the effusiveness but don't give me the sideways glance. You know what I mean? I've been told I have "resting bitch face" so that will probably suffice.

Yes, I know what you mean Gershun.
Can you bring the brownies?

So, that is not your gift, or role. But you do have a gift.

After a good nights sleep, I can now recommend going to a well established home bible study, with both male and female attending. Find a huge church (to blend in), go once to discover the Bible study, then go. Once there, you can find one or two other persons to study with.

I went to bible studies for years to learn with others.

Gershun, I’ve been told the “resting bitch face” comment too.

...that when two or three are gathered together in thy Name thou wilt grant their requests...

is as close as the Book of Common Prayer gets to defining a quorum; and to be frank two or three is pretty miserly compared with other religions' requirements (you need ten for a minyan in Judaism, e.g., and of course in the olden days it had to be ten males over the age of thirteen, what's more); but nowhere does it say, or not that I've ever heard of, that you can't study and pray on your own; and certainly not that you have to be on speaking terms with other people in the church before you're allowed to sit down.

I'm not sure you can go anywhere and expect people not to show that they have noticed you, a new face, suddenly among them. Assuming they're not so rude as to say "who the heck are you" they're bound to have the odd peep at you, aren't they? I should just smile back serenely, and say "I'm doing research" if you find them unduly intrusive.

I remember the first time I went to a church service where the ghastly modern fashion for exchanging peace greetings had been adopted. You probably have to be English to feel the full horror of making contact with another person in public, let alone actually touching, not to mention wishing an individual you don't know anything at all except possibly 'happy birthday'... Anyway, that first time I was so unprepared and appalled that I was struck dumb and unable to participate. Nobody minded, they just went round me.

The point is, so what if you go and they sing the wrong hymn to the wrong tune and you overhear whispers and the pastor either blanks you or takes your hand in both of his and won't let go until you're afraid you'll be stuck there 'til Thursday... if, in short, it's an ordeal?

At least you've tried.
What's the worst that can happen?
What are you there *for*?

I think we might in danger of just vaguely dreading something that probably isn't there. Doesn't matter, until it stops you doing what you would otherwise want to do.