The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

Kristi, you are welcome to share my personal comments for what they are worth. But, it is doubtful they will want to hear it. I did not learn this in Sunday School either. but I studied this when it the promise of God was brought to my attention of honoring our parents and this included step parents, grandparents and anyone who shared in being there for you as a child.

I actually did a serious study on this one commandment and was shocked at the responsibility. But Honor is the key word, not being a Myrta or causing harm to your own welfare is not part of honoring. We must respect our parents for what they tried to do for us no matter how neglected we have been or how difficult our lives may be now.

I have a one son who has very little to do with us or any of his family but he is from a broken home as his Dad left when he was young and he had a good home but as I stated, I made some of the same mistakes and my own trying not to be like my parents but as someone wisely stated, we never get "over" coming from a real dysfunctional family. But, for me it was being able to understand they did the best they knew how under their circumstances and realizing they were so caught up in a life of misery and turmoil we were left to raise ourselves. My mother never took me shopping, to a movie or to do girl things together and I left home after high school, got married and there is where I learned to be really bitter and blame my parents. I was being dysfunctional as well. It seemed the harder I tried, the worse I got. It was not until I found my husband of 33 wonderful years did I learn I was a good person with nothing to be ashamed of. My dear husband is older and a very wise and good natured man and he was not abusive like my first husband. I had to get out of that relationship and have someone believe in me before I could begin to understand and get help.

The last step was being able to love "unconditionally" without expecting anything in return and to forgive my parents as they had no idea what damage it caused our family. Most of us know that having a narcissistic mother hurt us very much and we never felt loved. Now my 91 year old mothers tells me she loves me and hugs me back but it took 88 yrs for us to come to an understanding. And yes, I have to detach and sometimes not speak for a week while she brews and stews and then when she is over it, I will go back. I am just happy that I was given the chance with someone who supported me through the tough years when I blamed, and cried for help. I never thought I could love Mother, but it is amazing what we can do, when we heal our own hearts and soul. Loving unconditionally does not mean agreeing with everything or will it prevent all disagreements but I can walk off rather than yell, blame and cry in front of my mother. It will always hurt, but I am not suffering from the abuse since I think I have been able to see her side and know what she could not help. She is not a mother I can be proud of and be with like many mothers and daughters. I never had that and never will. She just needs me now and I will be there for her but not by ruining my own feelings. I have to protect myself and not allow the abuse and at times, it means stepping back and let them be upset alone.

I appreciate all the wise comments and suggestions. My heart aches for those of you who may never get where I am but mine was through the Grace and forgiveness of God. I could not have understood without it. I still get knots in my stomach when being around mother but it just does not hurt like it did.

And Kristi, if you want to know more about the commandment of honoring our parents, please email me. I can tell you there is lots of things on this subject from the Kings James Version of the Bible if you are interested in learning more. It really facinated me and showed me what I had to do to get my own life in order and no we don't have to bring our loved ones into our homes with a toxic relationship. That is not what honoring is about. It is giving respect that we feel they don't deserve but since God can and does forgive me for everything, who am I to judge? And I don't think everyone will be able to get the same results as I have because you probably don't have a supportive loved one who really understand or is willing to help you when we are at our worst. I took so much frustration out on my husband, I cannot understand how he loves me so and is so good to me but I am so thankful. I could not have done this without him.

I hope no one thinks I am saying if I can do it you can, because of the levels of degree of abuse you are in now will depend on how much you have to give to yourself to heal. I felt totally selfish for a while but had to take care of myself in order to heal. But, I no longer carry any hate, anger or malice against my mother. I am accepting her as she is the best I can. And my love and prayers are with each of your unique situations. Just hang in and do your best. We cannot make them change but we do not have to subject ourselves to their abuse either. But, we must forgive those that harmed us. It is the only way out.

My love and prayers are with each of you and I will still whine about my problems to you because this did not take away all the problems but it was a great beginning for me and I can vent without hurting my mother. My life's not perfect by any means but I am content within for the first time in my life and I think I am a good person in spite of all my faults and misgivings. I do have a big heart and love for others. This is why I am glad I found each of you here. I can so relate to your broken hearts and disillusionment. So, just take it one day at a time and give it your best shot. That is all anyone can do. But, you are not to blame so please let go of your guilt or shame. We are a product of our environment have we have all come a long way with much more before us to deal with. Just one thing at a time and take care of yourself or you cannot help anyone else.

With my love,

Sunny:)

I so appreciate this thread, as well as our other but for those of us from dysfunctional families, it is so necessary. I have been a responsible adult since my childhood when I had to help raise two younger brother 8 and 9 yrs younger than me. I have been caregiving all my life and now that I am not well, I am unable to give as most of you are right now. I can only help my mother from a distance by taking her where she needs to go and even helping a small bit financially but I would not risk my chronic illnesses to do what I used to think I "Should Do." It is not about doing what we think we should but about doing the best we can. No more, no less. There are no rules in this situation each of us find ourselves with our dysfunctional parents. So please know you can only do so much and we cannot change them and we will die trying. Give it your best and let go of what you cannot do and love yourself first. I hope this will help just one person so see how wonderful you are and how the scarifies you are making may be more than your body, mind and soul can withstand. We can detach without not being there at all and that was so eloquently pointed out in another post here. We are all in a learning process and just do your best but don't sacrifice all of yourself to your parents and ignore your own needs. That is not about honor. That is doing more than your body is capable and it will wear you down and help no one.

I do care about each of you with your struggles, and despair. Many of you have shown your love and given me the love and support I need too and truly blessed my heart. And you have been so helpful and uplift me each day I come here. Thanks and God Bless each of you that you will find a renewed life of peace, love and joy.

My love and prayers to all,

Sunny:)

Allison, thanks for your comments and encouragement. And I don't want anyone to think it is easy to work things out or that I don't still have struggles as I do. But, I try to take it one day at a time and that is easy for me to say since I am not in your situation. My love and heart goes out to you for all you must take and do. You are a strong women and I feel proud to know you and hope I can be here for you during the times you need a friend. I sincerely appreciate your understanding and caring. I could not do all that you do but I so admire you. Don't give up and stand your ground with tough love when you must take control of a difficult situation. You have to try and understand each situation is unique and what worked for me will not for you. I just knew I could not bring my mother in my home and it was from reading all the post of how difficult and impossible it is. And many of the post I have read did not include Dysfunctional families. And you are so right, we can never leave it. It is with us no matter how hard we try. May God Bless and give you the strength and stamina you need and please learn to take time for yourself or you will burn out like I have and will not be able to help yourself, let alone anyone else. I do care and my heart aches for you. I have cried for you and am here anytime you need someone, as are all the rest of the fabulous group.

Get out and have a little fun regardless of who likes it. Let them all get upset but take care of yourself.

Love, Prayers and Hugs my sweet friend.

Sunny:)

OMG Allison, I am so sorry for all your have experienced and I do understand why you feel the way you do. I am glad you are able to pray and it will work for you. I am sorry if I offended you in anyway. I know my beliefs are special to be but everyone will not see what I meant for them to. \

Thank you for seeing through what you cannot agree with to what I was trying to say in my humble way. I know you are a loving and kind person and with all you have suffered I understand just what you mean. I never meant to hurt anyone of push my belief off on anyone. This is just the way, it opened my eyes to see what I needed to learn of love and forgiveness and I am glad you could understand this. I do care so much for you and am so sorry for your suffering. I have not experienced anything that bad. But, I was not brought up in church. Neighbors took me at times, this was a personal relationship I obtained as a young adult. My mother is Catholic and my father was Methodist and they did not attend church. They chose to spend the weekend drinking and fighting. I had some exposure to sexual abuse but was not touched if that makes sense. You are so delightful and I love you even more for sharing and caring in spite of my putting my religious views on line. It may not have been socially correct but was the only way I could explain my personal situation dealing with my dysfunction. You are so wise and opened minded to have read between the lines and understand what I was trying to say.

My deepest apologies to you and I will try and be more careful how and what I say as not of offend anyone. I love all of you too much to offend anyone. So, my apologies to anyone else I may have offended.

Love and Hugs,

Sunny:)

CMag, I pray your mother is doing better and too. Thanks for your kind comments and this wonderful home. You are very wise and I enjoy all your post and hope you were not offended by my religious views on what has helped me.

Love and Hugs,

Sunny:)

SharynM, I have enjoyed reading your post and my love and prayers are with you as well. I know many of you have experienced so much more than I have and I am not trying to make it sound easy to overcome our dysfunctional families. And we cannot overcome them but I have been blessed to learn to live with it the best I can and not let it further ruin my life. Each of us has to deal with the situations as it works for our own personal needs. And I can feel your heartaches and struggles and my love and prayers are with you and know you will find help and comfort here with these wonderful individuals who have suffered much more than I.

Take care and look forward to chatting more with you and getting to know you. I love each of you and I don't want to offend anyone.

Love and Hugs,

Sunny:)

Sunny, thanks. I'm not offended by your religious views and am saddened to read your painful experiences with extreme organized religion.

There are several books that have been written about recovering from abusive churches, recovering from spiritual abuse, toxic faith, reaching the de-churched, etc.

Love and hugs. CMag

What is all this about the Kindle? I only have the old e-reader with keypad and I could never get on-line and type. haha In fact, I cannot type on my netbook or Ipad either without lots of typo's so please over look them. I don't want to have to edit and cannot type and think at the same time. I have forgotten how to multi-task. lol

But I love to read on my Kindle. I have 1600 books. Have read a few hundred and keep my Kindle so slow because I like having all my books categorized and together. I met many great Indie writers when I was on a chat line at the Amazon Discussion threads. I had one called Welcome to The Kindle Comfort Inn but we kept getting attacked so I quit it. It was not worth the trouble. I am glad things are smooth here. There are many spoil sports who do nothing but attack. I miss my dear writer friends but they email me now and then.

And Booklovr, are you a writer? I would love to write a book but no one wants to read about my dysfunctional life. But, I do love to read and play bingo. haha. I enjoy your post are like a good writer. You too are a very wise woman and I enjoy your post. They are so helpful and I feel for your and your responsibilities too. I guess we all have a cross to bear. Take care and I will keep reading your enlightening post.

Warm wishes and Hugs,

Sunny:)

From time to time, I've shared some of my poems about pain and dysfunctional families. I think that I'll share all three tonight.

Barnacles and the Tragedies of Life

Barnacles are like the tragedies of life.
On a wooden ship they destroy its life.
Those who run into them are diced.
Barnacles can shipwreck your or another’s life.

Ever hear that hurt people, hurt people too?
How can this not be true of me and you.

Difficult to do in the middle and after a painful crisis.
Refuse to feel the pain and anger of being diced.
End up numb and dumb just like ice.

To forever nurse the pain,
Leads to never being free to love again.

We cannot chose to be or not to be hurt by the barnacle like tragedies and people in life.
However, we can chose not to let those experiences make us like a barnacle in another’s life.

To be or not to be a barnacle is the question for tonight.
To feel hurt and anger, but sin not is a difficult fight.

However, it is the biblical way to a better day.
Yet holding on to it and nursing it digs a dark and dreary day.

People, we do this as if it will somehow accomplish something.
But honestly, that choice accomplishes nothing.

I think I'll just share one more poem about the journey through pain and not share the one on dysfunctional families tonight.

I wrote the poem below after reading the book Tragic Redemption by Hiram Johnson.


Path Through Tragic Pain

God's solution for crushing tragedy
is not an offer of a miraculous remedy.

God offers not a formula to eliminate or insulate.
Instead God calls us on the path to participate.

God's grace transforming our places of humiliation,
such is the journey of tragic redemption.

Words wise and true are meant as a tool,
but wrongly used are just plain cruel.

'What ifs' only chain us to the past.
Blame games brings healing which does not last

Naive expectations seek for faith to work like magic,
yet, by faith we walk through the tragic,

Various addictions help excuse our real condition.
They block the way for helpful consolation.

Tragic pain easily becomes fused into a sick self-identification.
A calloused soul greatly needing tragic redemption.

Tragic feelings deep and real are not the center of the universe.
'No one knows the trouble I've seen' needs another verse.

Other's tragedies might not be as bad,
While some are far worse than what we had.

Sucking others into our misery,
creates a path to further insanity.

Locked in by self centered rage,
like a wild animal in a cage.

Bitterness creates an illusion of security and control.
Yet, it will not make one whole.

Expecting and demanding perfection creates dark isolation.
The courage to be imperfect brings salvation.

Controlling, rationalizing and intellectualizing spreads darkness in our
souls,
while accepting ourselves as flawed returns the dawn of life into our
aching souls.

Isolated souls existing around like souls, hurt, kill and destroy each other.
Connected souls living around similar souls, treat each other like sister
and brother.

Oh what a fabulous poem I can so relate to. Do you mind if I copy it? I would love to share it if you don't mind? It truly blessed my heart. Wow, what talent you have. You are truly awesome. Thanks for sharing and caring.

With Love and Hugs,

Sunny:)

Sunny, you can copy it and share it with others. I don't think of myself as all that wise or even awesome. It has taken about 9 years of therapy to get where I am today to be able to write these poems. A friend of mine from high school read these two poems and said they authentically portrayed my journey through life and she was sorry that I went through so much pain.

Love and Hugs, CMag

I just got off the phone with my mother a few minutes ago... I'm in a bad emotional place...

I'm sorry but I didn't have the emotional wherewithal to really read the last several posts.

But let me say, Scmoon, how I feel about "God" and what that word means to me has nothing to do with good people like you. I recognize that, and since you ARE such a wonderful person, you can never offend me. I just kind of took the opportunity that was in front of me to "vomit up" some icky religiousy feelings from my past and share them... not to bring anybody else down, but because I think it might help me, if I put it into words, to keep shaping my own ideas and see my own Truth and Falsehoods.

My mother just informed me, during a phone call, that she is coming for a visit tomorrow "to take my dad to his doctor's appointments." I spent about 5 minutes trying to say everything in the right way to steer her back towards focusing on her own life.... There's no need for her to drive several hours each way... I'll be down in Indianapolis next week to see her for a "visit" (if thats what she wants)... I tried SO HARD to get her to change perspective, to respect my wishes, to understand that its just a fact that we "get into it" every time shes up here... and that getting all riled up with each other is counterproductive...

She calmly and matter-of-fact told me, again, after several minutes of my sweet-natured, uber-logical pleading with her, that she was coming. In her own words, she told me she was coming because she "had told my dad she would take him to doctor's appointment."

So I rebutted her argument here, but she held firm in the calm, matter-of-fact "sorry if you don't like it but I am coming."

I tried again to keep the conversation in a neutral zone. I made some new points/arguments about why its just so much all around better for her to stay home, why I have everything handled (but thank you VERY much), why its just not healthy or positive for us to be interacting like we are...how much I really do want to have a relationship with her but this isn't the way...

She again calmly and matter-of-fact told me that "sorry if you're not happy about it, but I am coming."

And I LOST IT.

The thing is, she's ALWAYS SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!!! She's been APOLOGIZING to me my whole damn life! But she's not sorry enough to do ANYTHING differently or be open to any of my logical, or emotional, outcries.

So.... yeah.... sigh.... pretty much, after her stoic refusal to budge or give an inch, or show any sign that my feelings about it mattered at all, no matter what argument or evidence I presented her with, I then went into "crazy Alison mode," which is a mode I hate acting from, hate being in, and don't typically have a problem staying out of... EXCEPT around HER... and I just screamed my head off at her then hung up.

I'm trembling. I have to figure this out so that I'm not in danger... of what, I don't really know... but its there...

------------------------

So I got creative. I made up a lie that my dad's appointment time is changed tomorrow to 4 hours earlier. I went into his room and told him that I'd just learned of the new time change and so we need to leave the house by 9am tomorrow. I'm so hoping this is enough time to avoid any confrontation with my mother...

I will explain to my poor dad, who's just simply caught in the middle here, why I lied about the time change once we get on the road, and we have an hour drive up to VA center to talk about things... I believe my dad, even in his limited cognitive abilities, respects me because of how much I've done, and do for him. I really think that if I can say the right words to him tomorrow, he will understand my choices and be, at the least, not mad at me for deceiving him.

-------------------------------------------------

Interesting, unforeseen update: my bro and I just had conversation about this, and while I still feel largely unsupported by him in "helping me handle our mother," which he also readily agrees is disruptive and meddling, he put some new ideas in my head on how to handle the visit... that to let it happen... handle it with calm emotions, period.

So...

I just don't know. I'm going to try to sleep now so that I can hopefully wake up early enough tomorrow, and with enough of a rested state of mind, to act on whatever decision I come to in the morning, as best as I can. Its so hard, I understand now, to treat each recurrence of her "acting out" as a separate, isolated incident. Its just NOT. It IS a pattern, and one that has hurt me and continues today to hurt. But maybe "the answer" for me right now is just to realize that I have put all this back into my face by returning geographically. And that for now, I will have to endure and can try to learn something from all this for future reference, when I'm again in a more "physically removed" place.... even if I lived in the same city as her, in a different house, my own house... I would have more reason to command her basic respect. But this IS my dad's house... before that my GMs... and my mom is used to coming here to "help out" for many, many years now... I can't overlook this...

I just don't know.

I just wish like hell she'd been (even the littlest bit) open to (the greatest amount I could give of) persuasion/bribing/bartering/cajoling/arguing/reasoning. She isn't open to being empathetic to me. That sucks.

Emjo, you mentioned PTSD before...

Its very odd... I feel that that MUST be what I'm feeling, in some degree. Theres no other explanation why my mother's decision, as I predicted, to come for a visit and be helpful regardless of my feelings, would make me react the way I did/do.

This is all building in me... I really don't want it to... I try to reason it, love it away from the inside... and yet... its there. Her actions turn me into... I don't even know... someone else... someone different from who I identify with myself as.

I *think* I'm open minded. I *think* I'm caring, considerate, thoughtful... although, of course, I have moments, many moments, where I'm not. But its my genuine desire to be a "good person." And I've found such peace, happiness, even FUN in my life... all the time... even without money, material things, a unknown future... all these things that create worry and stress in the human mind... and I've found a way to be at peace with all of it. But my mother tells me she's coming for a visit and suddenly I'm thinking to myself...

But this is the problem. I'm Not thinking.

I'm feeling. And it Isn't Good. Wow.

Alison, I'm sorry to hear about your experiences with extreme organized religion. There are many people who have become de-churched because of those kind of experiences.

Your mother's lack of empathy towards you sounds very borderline or narcissistic to me for such people don't mind busting other people's boundaries.

Ok, all you "praying people" ... please say a prayer that I will have a better, clearer idea of how to proceed with my day tomorrow when I wake up. I couldn't mean this last sentence more. I don't want to keep destroying my current emotional stability based on things that happened to me as a child, that I now see represented in my mom's words/actions of today. I am older, wiser, bigger, and I could, potentially, just "suck it up" ... for now... given the circumstances... live to fight another day... stop taking it to the "level" her behaviors always seem to get me to operate on... I can't change her. I can change myself.

"Dance, monkey, dance!" This is exactly how I feel about what she does to me.

I'm sick of dancing to that same stupid tune.

I can just stop dancing, can't I?


Thanks. This is Hard. I predicted this, that she would perform her desired behavior regardless and still find myself in a tizzy. I have to stop hoping for Change with her. I have gotten to that emotional place with my dad... and things are pretty cool with the two of us... now its her turn. Game on, Life.

Thank you, cmag. It makes sense to me that my experiences aren't unique... and I know from experience that its helpful to learn something from those who've actually been through it/accomplished it. So its a good idea for me to look into learning more about what you call "de-church." I think this is my very first time ever hearing the terminology. It makes sense.

I "got by" for many years by just being absent from all this... being in a geographically removed place... my relationship with my mom never got better... even if I talked to her once every 6 months on the phone, it would somehow end up in one of us getting upset with the other. Very upset. Yelling, screaming, hostile upset. And I just can't understand, for the love of God (no pun... har... gallows sense of humor, can't help it... ;D), why she won't at least agree to a cease-fire (by her not coming to visit) for now. She clearly isn't tired of the fighting... and I'm just plumb worn out.

Breathing Exercises are really helpful. I let myself go completely down a road of emotional free fall tonight and didn't stop to do one BE. Ok, I am reminded now. I'll do them tomorrow, too.

Take care all. Thanks.

I do understand about honoring your parents, What I didn't see was there are many ways of honoring them. Sharynmarie, I don't know you but your post touch my heart so much. We all can learn the different ways to honor our parents. Sometimes life is so hard being a caretaker of a parent. I had a daughter when I was 16, no one would hire me except a convalescent home. The day I started working , I told myself I would never put my parents in one. Well here I am taking care of the hardest person in my life ever. My beautiful mother. I, like you want to honor her, I know this is what God says to do. I have a very depressed mother, I cant seem to even get a smile.Sometimes I get thoughts like, I would just love to leave here, then I feel so bad I just sit and cry. My mom has a big thing like, shes the mom and I'm the daughter. So no matter what I do, she sees me as her child. I do understand, but its hard when you try to take care of someone, and they think you don't know what your doing. When I read your post, it was like the spirt came over me and put me in my place. Just in time, I was just about to go crazy. Thank you so much for writing it and filling my heart with love again. Warmly Jody

Scmoon~Thank you for such a loving, kind post. I truly appreciate it. I have forgiven my parents (my father passed away in 2003). My mother, I continue to forgive. As you said, it is not an easy journey, forgiveness does not happen overnight, in the beginning we have to forgive daily. I had a bad experience with the church as an adult. I had been attending church for ten years, was the Altar Guild Directress for 9 years when we got a new minister. He took an immediate dislike to me. I told my mother about my feelings, she said I was imagining things...normal response from her regarding my feelings. I should have resigned but I didn't. I hung in there for 6 more years only to be very badly hurt by this man. I ended up leaving the church altogether and have not gone back to any church since. It took me 3 years to work through the pain of what I experienced...he would target me from the pulpit regarding a new outfit I bought, he targeted me because I got a new, but used car I needed to get to work...he didn't believe in getting loans to buy cars, if you didn't have the cash to pay for it, you shouldn't get it.Then the worse came...they started shunning my children. That was the final straw for me. You want to attach me as an adult, that is fine...but don't shun my children...they are children for goodness sake!! I have found forgiveness for this situation too. I do believe in God and Jesus Christ, but what I believe is not what the church apparently believes. I have many friends who like you are Christian, but they don't treat me how I was treated at church. I went to the church asking for help when my youngest was 3 years old. My husband started a new job where he was working 12 hour days, I was working 40 hours a week. I was so overwhelmed with responsibility taking care of 2 small children by myself, working 40 hours a week...all I asked for was for one of their teenage children watch my 2 children for 2 hours on a Saturday so I could run errands, getting a well deserved break so I could quickly grocery shop and run other errands. I was demoralized for asking such a question, told I was a horrible mother for even thinking I should be away from my children. Because I was still very dysfunctional, I felt I deserved their treatment. I still struggle with this question...if the church felt I was not raising my children properly, why did they not take the opportunity to take me under their wings when I asked for help instead of waging war on me 15 years later? Enough of this. I feel your love and kindness Scmoon!! Love and hugs back to you, you are very loving and I appreciate it.

Alison~I must admit while reading your post, I was thinking you should take your father to the appointment early to avoid your mother. I don't know if that is the right answer or not but it certainly sends a message. Your mother sounds similar to my mil who passed 2009. She consistently forced her beliefs and how she wanted life on me to no avail. I loved her from the core of my being but we did not see eye to eye. What is sad...I found out from my fil's sister at my mil's funeral reception, that mil praised my crafting talents and said good things about me. Why didn't she ever tell me that? Oh well!! I did learn many positive things from her that my own mother did not teach me, I think that was the purpose of her being in my life. I only wish our relationship had been different. I am very emotional and respond better to people who are emotional too. Whatever decision you make tomorrow morning, we are with you, support you and as always hugs and love to you and Scmoon!!

Alison,

I really feel for your situation regarding your mother.
It is difficult, given that she is used to coming over your dad's, and as you stated was coming there for years. This makes it almost even tougher. You say she's divorced from your father, but look at even that dynamics, she still is enmeshed in his life. Your brother's attitude towards your mom also reminds me of my own brother's concerning issues in the family and denial about realities.

I realize you think that your mom isn't narcissistic, but maybe you should read the site that Emjo suggested to you. Even if she is not, she sounds very toxic.
It's wonderful in theory that you would like to have a relationship with her, however she really doesn't seem like she knows the meaning of respect towards a very wonderful person, you!

When I got to this moment in my relationship w/my own narcissistic mother, I took matters into my own hands. I realized there was no reasoning, explaining-none of that with my clueless mother. This is when I put some serious boundaries into place, and kept them. I have to tell you, she kind of backed down after that, because she now realized I wasn't going to tolerate any disrespect from her anymore. She doled out the very passive aggressive type of abuse, too.

Stand up for yourself, because no one else will,
Much Love & LIght! Margeaux

Cmag~I enjoyed your poems and am so sorry for what you have been through. You have come such a long way in recovery from all the abuse you went through.I look forward to reading more of your poems. I understand the disappointment with the hospital postponing your mothers surgery for a later date. Hugs to you and i hope you share more of your journey with us!!

Alison, the term de-churched is a rather new term and one I learned from a book titled, Reaching the De-Churched, which it defined as Christians who have not left their faith, but have left the institutional church after some painful experience like telling someone their depression is because they lack faith, have a demon or there is some unconfessed sin in their life. Some churches are still in the dark ages about mental illness. My family and I have had a mixed response from churches to her mental breakdown and to my depression, but much of it was negative. We hardly attend church and or Sunday school anymore.

Cmag~Your response to Alison is very right on. Unfortunately, the church is the last change regarding social changes in culture. I also came out saying I was depressed and because I was seeing a therapist....a big sin within the church.It is a shame!! Hugs to you!

To be fair, I must add that many mainline denominations have made some progress in this area, but from what I've heard many of the more ultra conservative, namely fundamentalist type churches have not and that I believe mainly out of ignorance. Too few people know that the protestant reformer, Martin Luther, suffered from depression, mentioned it a lot without any shame, and was keenly and compassionately observant of Christians with mental/emotional issues and advised clergy to be compassionate as well. NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness, is reaching out to churches in hopes of educating them to show radical hospitality to those with a mental illness and their families. This is something that I've tried to do within my limited sphere of influence through speaking and writing. I think any church that can be hospitable and even involve people with a mental illness and their families is a healthier church because it is more loving. Like the song says, "they will know we are Christians by our love".

Hugs, love and prayers for all.

My religion frowns upon therapy. Very much frowned upon. Even when I was seriously suicidal last year, they were still so firm on No Therapy. Instead, I was suppose to see the religious leaders and God for help. I didn't want sympathy or empathy. I Needed Help with My Parents - Physical Help! I had decided that death was my only way out of this prison. I had it all planned out - where, when , how, etc....

A few months later, I was visited again by the religious leader. Actually several times he visited me. I was no longer the shy smiling person. I would sit there and rarely "open up" to him. Finally, on his last visit, he started a sentence - with Obvious Hesitation. He finally said that if needed to seek therapy, then go ahead. But I can tell from his sentence, tone of voice and facial expression, that my religion still frowns upon it but are compromising on my behalf.

I have no desire to go back to my religion. One day, if I ever move away from here, I will change my religion. As it is, I live in a small island. If I quit my religion, I will be shunned. Some of my religious members already think I'm excommunicated. They've ignored me in stores, and look right through me - as if I don't exist. And I'm not even formally excommunicated.

This subject is soooo tiring and depressing for me. Later...

So great to read everyones' posts, yet very disturbing also...so many of us were abused at the hands of the ones we are now caring lovingly for...how weird is that? Before I took on this role, Dad lived far away and we made had weekly conversations regarding what he was doing and what we were doing...10 min phone calls were good. Now that he is in my home and in my face everyday, memories are fresh and raw from childhood..it is a constant battle everyday to put those feelings aside and give him constant care and love...They can be so loving and appreciative at times and other times so demanding and rude, yet we have to wear the same face because deep down we know they are sick and not around that much longer. But it can be emotionally draining.

Today has been fun, (a little humor) not funny at the time, but his motorized recliner got caught on chair he puts his feet on and we was way up in the air tilting forward but no where near the ground. When i pulled the foot chair out he slammed to floor only resting on the bed side table now caught underneath with a screw from the chair dug into the metal legs on bedside table.. Many lifts and many tugs, my 17 yr old son and I rescued him. The picture of him up in the air looking like he was floating to heaven..(I knew that wasn't the case!LOL)
game me humor (inside) even with 90 deg weather and dripping sweat and telling him it was ok and not to worry about! 2 min later of getting him back to normal he needs to get up and go to the bathroom...that is when I breath in deep breaths and keep on going all with door bell ringing, dog barking, phone ringing, etc..

so glad to have this site to vent on! hope everyone's day is as good as can be expected and pray or not, we keep doing the best we can with what we have been exposed to..how amazing is that!

It is very true you can not change others-their behavior is working well for them. I has a light bulb moment while in LA-my mother had screeched at me yet again-about using the ac-I had said to her if she is too cool or warm let me know and I would fix things 2 days later was the screeching and I turn the ac off and thought she has no power over me any more-that felt freeing-mnow I am in a great relationship with a nice loving man and I appreciate him even more for what I went through growing up and my l o n g marriage to an abusive man who died 4 yrs. ago, We have to change ourself to be who we want to be and set boundaires to those upsetting us.

((((((Alison))))) Sorry I didn't answer sooner. We travelled all day yesterday.

So, so sorry for your childhood experiences and the pain you still suffer because of them. I don't see how you could NOT have PTSD from your childhood experiences, and even from adult experiences with your mother. I suspect this is at least a part of the reason that Pauline Boss, recommends that adults who, as children, were abused by their parents, are not hands on caregivers to those parents. In my view, your mother sexually abused you by exposing you to what she did. I had the same experience, but to a much lesser degree. Sweetie, in my view. you need to practice what I call "extreme self care" to heal from all those dreadful experiences, and not have the traumas reinforced by your mother's behaviour.

She is sick, Alison, and maybe she cannot help her behaviour, and I think it unlikely that she can or will change it, but that does not mean you have to continue to be hurt by it. I know well what it is like to be treated as an extension of someone else, to have my emotional needs unrecognized and unmet. It is very demoralising. I have been in the emotional state you were in recently. Your physical and emotional health are being negatively affected. You are the only one who can make the changes that will improve your life.

One of my stages in getting better was accepting that my mum was as she was and not expecting her to be different, or even wanting her to be different. Did/do I like they way she is? No, of course not. But by expecting/wanting changes I was only adding insult to injury - more and more disappointment. I had to grieve the loss of a childhood, and the lack of a "normal" mum, who. though she looked after me physically by feeding and clothing me (though even that has negative connotations which have affected me deeply) did not give me a safe environment as a child, did not care about my feelings, raged and had tantrums, argued and fought, gave me a dreadful role model of a wife and mother and so on. She does have some talents and I can appreciate those now, but they in no way make up for the negatives.

"Substitute" mothers, mostly the mother's of friends, played a nurturing role in my life. I have a few friends who have "mothered" me at times. I am so grateful for all these people, without whom I would not be who I am today. A strong support system is, IMO, essential for us to survive a dysfunctional family and become whole.

I went for counselling as I needed it and found, over all, those with training in social work were the best for me. I still go for counselling when I need it, There is a saying that people live lives of quiet desperation. I have always said I live a life of noisy desperation and people know it when I need help. If you hurt physically, you go to a doctor. If you hurt emotionally, you go to a counsellor or therapist. My understanding of psychiatrists is that they mainly prescribe drugs and many don't do therapy as such. I may be wrong here. I honestly think anyone needs counselling help to recover from the trauma of a mentally ill mother/parent.

I believe that your mum enjoys the chaos she creates. I know mine does. I exhausts me and other family members, but she is energised by it. As one counsellor said to me "Why would she change - it works for her".

Dear Alison, I feel you pain. I have been praying for you and will continue. Re the de-churched - I am one too. I will continue that in another post. My faith is strong, but I do not attend a formal church. Regarding honouring one's parents, there are many interpretations of that and many other guidelines for behaviour -like it is honourable to walk away from strife. A fundamental basis for Christianity is love. Love God and your neighbour as yourself. Many of us were brought up without expectation of loving ourselves, rather an expectation of serving others. Thus, for healing and growing we need to learn how to love ourselves. It is not honouring to a parent, ourselves, or anyone else, to enable their sick behaviour, or to have a codependent relationship with them. Melody Beattie writes well about codependency. Addictions do not have to be involved for there to be codependency. Basically it means putting others before yourself. "Co-dependent No More" is one I found helpful.

More (((((((hugs)))))), Alison. I think you are a walking miracle. You are a warm, intelligent, loving person, and to have survived your childhood with those qualities, is, to me, miraculous. I know you are going to get a handle on this and move to a better place. I am privileged to walk part of that journey with you. Joan

Oh wow. I am so touched right now, by all of you. Thank you, Joan. People like the ones on this thread make all the difference to me. Last night, after my mother would not relent on "coming to visit," I bawled for several hours and just got into a very bad emotional place. I think it was a cumulative effect of EVERYTHING: participating in this thread so actively in the past few weeks, where these ideas of abusive/PD/narcissistic parents/family are discussed... and I've been trying to come to terms with my mother's behavior and yesterday I put into words some of the things that went on CONSTANTLY when I was growing up. In doing so, I of course had to "relive" some of it. And then my mother's refusal to acknowledge my request that she not come to visit... it all took a toll on me yesterday and I crumpled and cried and had nightmares and didn't sleep very well.

Today I took my dad to his doctor's appointment. I did leave the house early, to avoid my mother, and even before I left, I had taken the phone off the hook so my mother couldn't call my father and find out I was taking him early, I felt somewhat panicky that I just wanted to get out of the house and get going before she showed up.

This IS undoubtedly part of the PTSD, part of my emotional response, to my mother's behavior. Its also just part of my personality, though, too. My emotions can run a little strong... especially if my mom keeps poking me in the same damn spot she's been poking me in for 38 years, lol!

Thank you... so much... to those of you who said prayers for me. They had a wondrous affect.

My younger brother called me today as a warning to me... that my mother was telling him that she thought I was insane... literally... my mother was claiming I was mentally sick because, of course, I lost my temper/emotional bearings and "went off" on her yesterday and hung up on her. Then, with my hurt emotions flaring, and trying to figure out WHAT to do next... since she clearly wouldn't respect my wishes for some "space" from her, I came up with the (lousy) idea of threatening her with trespass/restraining order - something of that nature - if she stilled forced the visit upon me... and this idea further gives my mother the ammo she uses against me. Now, I'm just a "crazy" person, period. The problem IS, from my perspective, that my mother does not see me or hear me or respect any boundaries. But when I go and throw a threat of legal trespass onto the problem, now I've given her everything she needs to not see her own behavior as the real problem. I can't change her. But I can stop giving her ammo.

My younger brother does understand the true nature of the problem, and was empathetic. He told me some of his own "coping strategies" for our mother, whom he lives with. I don't know how in the world he does it, but since he does, he is thee expert on how to get along with her, lol!

I was very "ready" to learn to do things differently with my mom. I just didn't quite know how. To me, "boundaries" meant telling my mom I needed some "space" right now, in my home, but I would come for visit next week. And while it would have been NICE (lol!) if she was respectful of that, she simply isn't. But after talking to my bro and getting his input of how to do the boundaries/detachment with our particular mother, I heard what he was saying, knew he was right, and just decided to handle things this way... instead of insisting on actual physical avoidance with my mom today.

And things went just fine with my mom's visit. Not even that, they went well. I felt good about how I acted, maintained my own integrity and compassion for her, was able to communicate with her, and she left EARLY! Lol!

Phew. I don't like the emotions that come up around this issue... but I do feel good and promising about my ability to learn to do things differently. I don't want to feel hurt and threatened anymore by her, and I think I made a really good solid first step today.

And its because of you guys. I KNOW it is. Others who encourage me, support me... in this difficult emotional gray area... where something means one thing to one individual, completely different thing to another... all I've really needed is encouragement and the notion that its possible... to change around these lifelong hurtful relationships... one baby step at a time.

I've got to stop my own emotional response that I get when things happen now, today. This response is a product of a hurt past, of a hurt child. I am not a child anymore. This is what I reminded myself of today, as I was driving back home from Drs visit... I am a grown up now. My mother cannot truly hurt me. Sure, she will drive me nuts with her crazy habits and inflexible ways... and I still think its just plain old mean to force a "visit" on someone who asks you nicely to not... BUT, I claim my ability to deal with her without becoming the vulnerable child I was before. I'm just simply not that person anymore.

No more dancing monkey.

I took a good step today. I know it will have to be followed up by many more. But... I can do this. ;D

I love you guys. Thank you.