The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

Glad, got it. No, I totally agree with you with your decision. Sorry for mixing up you and Margeaux' s situation. Except your sister sounds like she has some kind of mental issues aside from the narcissistic personality. I've read enough here to see how different she is from most narcissist. I think she really really hates you. Hence all that actions against you - legal action and trying to subvert Your children. I wouldn't dismiss her. She will continually try to get at you. She has succeeded with one of your kids. She's going to keep trying with your remaining ones. Glad, you can start your own holiday traditions with your own children. It does not need to conflict with hers. It doesn't have to be a big to-do. It can be done informally.

My siblings always did this from the beginning. Mornings is their own private celebration. Lunch is with us. Dinner is with the in-laws. If there's a conflict, they do one of it the night before. This Easter, oldest bro family has decided to have it at his daughter's house so that his wife's family can attend. They don't feel comfortable with us (their sister's husband's family). When I heard that fave sis is going there, I was so hurt. I won't get to enjoy them and my little niece and nephew. We will be having no Easter feast just plain regular food.

I hope that you can find a way to do these mini tradition with your kids. It makes holidays worth looking forward to. Stress free.

I find it not so hard to find that people disbelieve the child abuse when they are informed about it by the survivors.
Many years ago I read in the Readers Digest abridged book section a title by "The Murder of Roger (Robbie??) Wayne, Age 6. The horrors this poor child suffered at the hands of mommies hubby was horrific and all mommy did was wring her lousy hands.
Some woman, some other 'mommy' had the audacity to write to the authoress that 'nobody, least of all a mommy, could harm a child like that... or allow a child to come to harm.. didn't believe the authoress." This prompted the authoress to write a letter back, through the Readers Digest that she had actually left worse incidents out.
So, the disbelief? Very easy because these evil perpetrators present such a good front to everyone.

Among the best at presenting such a good front to everyone, but their immediate family are mothers with borderline personality disorders. While they can appear like an angel to others, they are a h**l-cat at home.

Book, my son has been e-mailing her to try to get her to understand. tHe and his wife are going to sisters house. They also suggested brunch at their house for just my kids, their kiddos and me. But they are 60 miles from here and I still need to prepare dinner here. So I suggested they stop in for a short bit either before or after sisters. Son of course will, have not heard anything from either daughter. But, that is my plan.

Glad~Good for you!! I am not clear on this, does your mother live with you, you take care of her or does she live with nasty sis?

Veronica91 - Seriously - "I seem angry." Find me a survivor of a Borderline or Narcissistic parent who ISN'T angry! I'd like to shake their hand and congratulate them on being a living saint and a far better person than me.

When you see the same abusive behaviors you've seen your entire life, it's not dementia. When you see the same mean spirited manipulations and games, it's not dementia. I *wish* the worst thing to deal with over here was dementia.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Most of us here have moms & dads where there is no sweet little old person in there for us to find. There are no Normal Rockwell moments to dig out by putting on an old record. I don't have memories of the family gathered around the piano to sing Christmas carols by firelight. My memories are quite different.

Being forced to become the caretaker of the person responsible for abuse your entire life is more than a little traumatic. If anybody expects me to let 43 years of pent up resentment and anger just evaporate because a dementia diagnosis was made is kidding themselves. This relatively recent diagnosis did not make any of the past 40-something years un-happen.

Let's go back to 1986. It was her nonstop raging, hatred, and meanness that gave my dad the chest pain the night he died from a heart attack. She had been particularly merciless that day because he begged her to stop yelling - a mistake. She still is merciless if she detects weakness. This is not dementia. At the age of 15 I had to watch my 55 year old Daddy reduced to tears and begging this woman to please lay off him - which made her rage twice as hard - before he died overnight. You have never seen such a grieving widow the next day. It was a real show. She was so busy hamming it up with visitors that I got stuck with the work to cook, clean, do all the house chores, and learn to pay bills immediately. This turned into doing taxes, get my own driver's license, get jobs, apply for college and financial aid by myself. I had to forge her signature on all my college entrance forms because she refused to let me go. She wouldn't acknowledge any of my pain or grief. She had lost her husband but it didn't count that I lost my dad. I had to get over it immediately - put the big girl panties on I guess - because she was prostrate from sorrow and simply just could not possibly function from 1986 onward.

When I still lived at home on college breaks, I came home from work to find this woman on some kind of rage bender, following me around the house screaming about me being a whore, drug user, and so on. I had been at either school, work, or church. I didn't go anywhere else. She came at me with a seam ripper and chased me out of the house. She grabbed my arm and dragged it across the bricks of the house. Then she called the police and told them that *I* was the one out of control. So not only did I have this crazy ambush to deal with late at night, I got a nice lecture from a police officer on how to behave like a lady. The next day she put all my belongings in the yard and changed the locks on the house while I was at work. I had to live with a friend until school started back up and I could go into the dorm.

This is my reality, and it's actually pretty offensive to recommend "putting on big girl panties" to someone who has been prematurely parentified, bullied, diminished, manipulated, lied to, and the opposite of loved every day of their life with this kind of parent. I had to take care of HER from the day Daddy died and I STILL AM. I lost my childhood because of her. I missed out on a lot because of her manipulative stunts to control me, isolate me, and run off anybody who would try to be my friend. She would always pull some kind of ridiculous stunt every time something good was to happen to me, like faking suicide on my prom night or throwing up all day long on my wedding day. She emptied my bank account because she could, when I needed that money in college. I had worked since the age of 15 and saved my paychecks, and she took every penny without telling me. There was nothing I could do. She would come into my places of work and act crazy, to try to get me fired. She threatened the man who wanted to marry me but we got married anyway, and when she came to live with us, she tried to interfere in our marriage. She "fell" down the stairs with my three day old son in her arms, and then "accidentally" stepped on him. I refused to let her anywhere near my daughter when she was born.

Yet I still went down there in 2013, using up ALL my time off and spending over $1,000 of my own money to move her sorry difficult self and belongings to be near me, in my own home until the AL facility opened up. I still ask myself why I did it. I did it because she had run off every single family member or former friend who could have helped her out. I am literally the ONLY person on this planet who gives a flying d*mn about what happens to her. Her condition was deteriorating, she was missing doctor appointments, having hallucinations, and not taking her meds. I am the ONLY person who stepped in to do anything about it before she might be found dead.

She is in a very nice continuum care facility with dining services, doctors, nurses, PT, dentist, a gift shop, and social activities out the wazoo. I should be so lucky as to end up somewhere like that in my old age. You say she's being neglected, but you don't know beans about where she is and what it's like. Nor do you understand what mom's capabilities are vs. what she is willing to do. She is perfectly capable of performing the tasks of daily living but chooses not to because otherwise, how would she make people feel sorry for her? Her entire life has been one big theater production to make other people cater to her, carry her, idolize, and bow to her wishes.

I am entitled to my feelings. I refuse to accept any outsider's criticism or blame for how I feel about certain things in my life. I will process through it my own way, in my own time.

Her mental illness has done more damage to more people in the family than the dementia will do.

So please forgive me if you can, if I seem angry because I am actually quite furious, and I think I've earned the right.

Sandwich~Yes you are entitled to your feelings of anger, disappointment that you did not get the loving, protective mother you deserved to have as a child. I have been there and done that too. It is so heartbreaking and even though a mental illness is involved, it is not your fault and those who have not experienced what you and I and many others have experienced, the truth is....they don't get it.

I witnessed my mother first hand destroy my father (many can blow it off saying he let it happen), she emasculated him at every turn. She, herself, would not discipline us kids, instead she put my dad in the place of being the bad guy. If his punishment was not severe enough in mom's terms,....she badgered him for days on end about what a useless father, husband he was until he took his anger out on the offending child which resulted in physical abuse. My mother watched the abuse take place...following my father around the house as he beat the sh$t out of us and all she would say is..."You deserve it". Of course later in her 60's and 70's, she claimed this did not happen or she did not remember. No wonder my father became an alcoholic (she was one too but denied it). You don't have to be a 24/7 caregiver to be in the trenches with a parent who has a personality disorder and this is why my mother does not live with me or my siblings. Talk about being in the trenches...

You stated that your mother is in an ALF...With this recent diagnosis of dementia, does the ALF also have a memory care unit? If so, depending on how advanced your mother is, you can have her moved to memory care and being already a resident, your mother should get first place on their list.

Hang in there Sandwich, come back and vent, share as much as you need too. There are many of us on this thread in the same boat. Hugs to you!!

Remember, we are all at different levels of recovery when it comes to abusive childhoods...

As far as people not believing the child abuse...I too have experienced that. The truth is that even others who have been abused...deny it because it is not socially acceptable. I have heard so many horror story's of judges who would not accept sexual abuse or their attitude was that girls are going to have sex at some point in time anyway....REALLY? I have family members who think that way too.

sharynmarie, my FIL was a destroyed man and I got blamed for motivating him to stand up for himself. My wife told me that he often told her and her twin sister that he knew what they were going through, but there was nothing he could do. Wrong! MIL was a supreme narcissist with borderline traits according to my wife's therapist's diagnosis, but according to my reading about borderline mother's I have my own diagnosis. She is a borderline queen like a 'mommy dearest!' As if that was not bad enough, my wife told me after years of marriage that her mother told her private things about her marriage that parents should not tell their children about.

I'm sorry that your mother enabled your dad to physically abuse you. Mothers sometimes enable other kinds of abuse as well.

Sometimes people are in disbelief when a man shares about the abuse he suffered as a boy.

Sometimes a parent will make an opposite or a same sex child their emotional substitute spouse because of a bad marriage. Sometimes this leads to actual sexual abuse.

One of the worse things to do is to invalidate the emotions of someone who has suffered abuse.

This subject of abuse and disbelief of people about victims is not a good subject to get me started on. So, I'll hush now and go back to bed.

Cmag-you are right men are the least believed. I know my post was harsh, ut like you...it is a subject that gets me going. I hope I did not offend anyone...abuse is so life long damaging.

Glad,

The controllers, narcissist's such as our sisters, are doing some triangulation here.
You may want to read it on the Daughter's of Narcisssit's website. IIt means the narcissist is thwarting their abusive behavior towards someone like yourself, via your kids.

Our aunt did this constantly, mom did too back in the day.
But her sister who we ended up having charge of into her old age, (she had no kids),
WOW! She had a lot of power in the family because our parents allowed it.
So when it was caregiving time for her, guess what? Mom, now had ALZ, and dad passed away in 2001. The stage had been set by our parents. There had already been plenty of divide and conquer of the siblings. There's golden boy, then there's my spoiled youngest brother, and a controlling sister. I am the lowest on the totem pole, and am the eldest. The responsibilities placed upon me as a kid, have rung me dry, because I was caregiving them as a kid, like some mini-mother of sorts.
I didn't have a sense of childhood because of this..

Your sister is playing a heavy triangulation on you, involving your kids.
First of all, she really has a problem as I know about your Thanksgiving fiasco.
At that time, I know your family had been appointed the guardian. But I didn't know that the guardian also had the responsibility of mediating the behaviors within the family. It shows you how little understanding I had about it.

Well, if I'm understanding your post......you sound still undecided as to whether you will go. The other day.....when I was in your shoes about the Baptism I had much of the same feeling. That dread, of seeing my sister, in your case your's.
My sister had pulled all those stunts just days prior w/the Hospice social worker.
She got really ticked the social worker had interviewed me, instead of her, the day I was watching mom, while my sister was at work. That in no way was my fault.
I never know who is just going to drop in at mom's home, when I'm there......and now w/Hospice, it appears to be several.

When I weighed in as to whether I was going.......as I said, my hairs just stood on end at the thought of being in a small space w/my sister. The motivation for me to attend......was my niece, and the featured child of the Baptism. They have nothing to do w/my sister's shennnigans! Besides, I thought, "Why should I be the one missing the event, and I'm not referring to it because of the festivity, but because of the spiritual side of it. Yes, and I know I elected to pass on the church.....but I did that because it sickened me to have to watch my sister do live theater. Anyway, I just buckled in, and decided if I went, I wasn't going to engage w/her. I focused on anything else, even had my camera in tow, and took pics for my niece. My husband is going to forward those to her.

In your case, honestly.......this violation IMHO, is pretty out there in your face, and I know I don't have to tell you that either. Your sister is employing the divide and conquer and of no less w/your own family. I realize the importance that people place on the fact that they celebrate holidays w/their kids, too. But given that you do have your own responsibilities w/the caregiving, do you think it would make it j easier on you if you made a separate time to gather your own family together. However, if you feel compelled to go, are you going to be able to sidestep what your sister's doing, and just be there as if you were an invited disassociated guest? I realize it's not an easy decision by no means.

I agree with you.....that I try to be civil. O.K., and I will admit that according the the definition, is the fact that we elect to avoid the conflict and all of that.
However, it very rough terrain, when it comes to the narcissist's, the PD disorders, and the like. Again, I really feel that when the siblings and the rest of the family still have the parent(s), in the middle we do need to find some kind of balance.

I completely agree with you about trying to be civil in these situations.
It's almost like the tip of the iceberg. On the one hand we can stand up to them, end up in a big fight with our sisters. But then, w/these people the fall out that ensues with regards of taking care of the parents. Sure if there are no parents involved, I'm sure it makes it easier to disconnect from people in our lives who behave like this. Also what I think about w/regards to my own behavior even the midst of my own reactions to them, is, "for every action, there's a reaction too."

You're in my thoughts, Glad!
Believe me, I kind of know what you're going through!

Much Love & Light! Margeaux

Countrymouse,

Where are you? You haven't posted in awhile.
Hope things are good w/you!

Much Love & Light! Margeaux

Sharynmarie,

Thanks for the post about "enabling."
I revisited DONM's web. Still lot's to learn.

That must have been so very hard on you what you have described about your childhood. How is your niece doing?

Much Love & Light! Margeaux

Margeaux, I am just not to the point of being able to go to this fiasco of a celebration or watch my sister in the best of her showmanship. Such destructive behavior I'm just tired of it. Thanksgiving, followed by Christmas, now Easter, next month Mother's Day, just enough already. Then Father's Day, July birthdays, of which sis is one as well as two of my children, and one grandchild. It is just all to much. My son has put himself in position of peacemaker and will appease her by going for Easter, will get to see him at some point that day for a bit. Youngest daughter will stop by at some point. But oldest daughter is uncharacteristically silent. Heard from her last week, with "hope to see you there". Oh well, she won't respond to anything else. She is so angry at me, other daughter with the situation, son just frustrated.

I, too am the oldest. Narcissistic sister is the golden middle child, was very sickly when a young kid, got mom's attention constantly, sis would blame me for all that happened in the house, of course always believed.

Hopefully, my children will all wise up to this. But, I am not counting on it. I just wish I understood the hold sis has on my oldest. Then maybe I would know what I am dealing with. Will see SW this afternoon will probably talk about this a bit. It is Senior Prom at mom's day program and she is prom queen. So, much to do, need to be there in an hour. Speaking of prom, narc sister's only questions about it were is mom's hubby going? Is he wearing a tux? Nothing, can I help, what is mom going to wear? Just very strange, but those parties is when she is at her height of narcissism.

more later.

My sister called me yesterday. Just as I imagined. She's in need of someone to come be w/mom, this Sat. between 12:00 -4:00 p.m. I didn't give her an immediate, "yes," about it, either. I'm feeling very conflicted about going to do this. On the one hand, of course I'm not referring that I mind doing it for mom. But for my sister, NO.
I'm charging the phone right now, and have to give her a yes or no, in case she has to line up a CG. Ay yay yikes! I feel like weighing a lot of this also has to do with our egos. On the one hand, I don't want my sister feeling so powerful, which she already feels this way to begin with. Anyway, there's some bothering of my conscience about the right thing to do, since mom is also Hospice category these days. Any ideas, pals?

Much Love & Light! Margeaux

Sandwich I read you post on being in the trenches for what it was. It was a description of visiting your mother with a recent diagnosis of dementia who was not trying to take care of herself although she was physically able. That was what I read. You HAD NOT visited in a month and you were mad because Mom had sunk back into squalor.
Now you have told us why you are mad. This woman has destroyed all 43 years of your life and I do not doubt a single word. The new diagnosis does not cover up or excuse her previous mentally ill behaviour it just makes it more apparent as it will continue to be.
Your anger is eating you alive. I don't know what you can do to rid yourself of the poison. Big girl panties won't help. You got your first pair of those the night your Dad died. your mother is damaged as I know are those of, I dare to say ,most people on this site. That is why people are so empathetic. You have done all you can and far more than she deserves. So maybe the time has come to set her adrift and allow your family to enjoy the real "Sandwich" not the pent up ball of fury they are used to. Dare to let the softer side of yourself out in safe surrounding where she can not get to you. It may seem cruel to be the last person to disown her but others have done just that. Follow Emjo and SA and see what they have been through and what they had to do to maintain a semblance of sanity. mental health is not my area of expertise but my childhood certainly was disfunctional although not violent. I have spent the last 50 years married to a very good man whose mental illnesses can cause him to behave in less than loving ways. We all have out crosses to bear but it is up to each of us to find a safe place to lay them down.I do not apologize for what I wrote, it was an honest answer to what i perceived from you. Blessings

I have written before of the physical and sexual abuse and incest in our local society and when i have described it to others i get a blank stare and a look that says "you gotta be joking but i am not. One young nurses comes home to her family after work and changes from her uniform to her PJs but won't take off he bra till she goes to bed. Her husband teases her and tells her to let the "girls" have their freedom. She wont't though that bra is her protection from the awful things her father did to her when she was young. And yes her mother knew what was happening and choose to do nothing but then she was being beaten too. Oh I get it even if it is unbelievable. Can you believe that a well respected professional man would stub his cigaretes out on the chest of his wife with MS or that Hitler hanged some of his associates with piano wire.

Since you mom is on hospice could you ask your sister if they can arrange someone to stay with her for those hours since Hospice is to be there to help the families-maybe your sister can change the time of whatever she is planning to do to coincide with the times they will be there-if you really do not want to do it or re not able can you just say no without starting WW3 -I assume you hae said no to her before-just saying.

Austin,

Yes, I've said no to her before when I just couldn't.....as I live quite far, so this to begin with take some planning on my part. I called her today, after writing the post....and I figured she just has to figure it out, since she's so good at micro-managing. Besides, we do have 2 brothers who truth be told on a Sat., at those hours could even be asked to come help. I'm creating some distance between my sister and me, as a result of her need to constantly second guess, not acknowledge, and just plain be thankful that I have been available very much each and every time she's made the request. I'm also separating now, some times that I just want to show up there as a short visit w/mother, to check in on her. In other words, my visits are now going to be more defined by me. Yes, and you're right,
she does have Hospice, so I'm sure necessary arrangements can be made.
I don't want to engage in needless discussions about she re-arranging her plans, that's her ball game. I know it's probably to go spend time w/the boyfriend, who incidentally she has CG's cover during her work week, so she can go spend the night w/him. Whether my sister likes it or not, she does live there w/mom, and pays no rent......so these are her decisions.

Thank you for your suggestion, too1
Hugs,
Much Love & Light! Margeaux

Margeaux-thank you for your kind words. However, the reason I posted my past was to let Sandwich know she was not alone in her feelings.

Sandwich- counseling can help with the anger, so can forgiveness. Forgiveness does not pardon what your mother did or does now, it allows you to heal. You cant change or fix your mother, but you can change and fix yourself. My sister still carries so much anger toward our mother. The thing is that your mother has a mental illness which she has no control over. If your mother was not mentally ill she would not have abused you.

You can contact a social worker through the area agency on aging and let them know your moms situation. If you cant take care of her, tell the sw. I dont do hands on 24/7 caregiving because my mother is too problematic. I visit, take her to appts., lunch,etc. No one else knows how your mother or my mother truly is, so dont feel guilty if you cant take of her.

Margeaux~You are welcome! I know what you and Glad are going through with your sister's is very distressing. My sis is problematic too, and I do believe she has a personality disorder, just not as full blown as my mother or your's and Glad's sister.

My niece had surgery on the 14th, it was an 11 hour ordeal. They did a complete hysterectomy, removed the vaginal wall, and she will have to use a colostomy bag for some time possibly permanently if there is not enough tissue to reattach to. Her prognosis is not good as the dr.'s have already told her the cancer will come back. I do not know how long she will be in hospital but I do know that she will recover at my brother and sil's home as her husband is not very supportive.

Thank you for asking, Hugs to you and hoping you can work things out with your sister.

Veroncia~Thank you for your post about understanding abuse, etc. The problem with having been raised in a very abusive family is that the children grow up to adulthood, they don't have coping skills, they don't know how to overcome the damage, PTSD and many other things. Directing them to recovery is my goal. Of course, I and all of us can offer suggestions, but if the person is not ready to take that leap...we can't force them, we can only offer what we have to offer. We have had others on this thread that just were not emotionally ready for recovery, some need months to vent here before they take that leap, some just never come back.

This is what this thread is about, leading people to help, recovery, and growth. I forgave my parents when I realized that they did not get married for the purpose of procreating 4 children so they could abuse the H$!! out of them, LOL! My sis has primary on mom's DPOA, I am secondary...I am the one who see's mom the most ( I have to cut it down to 1-2 times week). I treat my mother with respect, yes...I tell her "loving lies" like the dr. is filling out the paperwork for your release to go home. I believe that is more proactive than my sister telling mom you can't live alone because you started a fire or you did this or that. Why upset mom...she doesn't understand anymore.

For everyone!!

I am fortunate that I have Sunday off. The community my mom lives in has a brunch for all special days throughout the year. I will be joining my sis and mom for the brunch. They have a gourmet chef and he puts on quite a spread on these days. My brother won't be joining us partly because he and sil do a traditional family dinner at their home plus my niece my be released by Easter so their hands will be pretty full.

My mom is still holding fairly steady regarding the Alz. Sometimes I am her cousin, my sister, myself...but she knows I am a relative who is important to her. I have posted about a long haired white toy cat, a small teddy bear and the black poodle stuffed toy we bought her for Christmas. Mom keeps these toys in her closet during the day but at night they sleep with her. She says they are real, but they don't eat and sleep all the time. Bless her for that...she has earned it!!

I hope on one on this thread has received a message from admin. I have accidentially reported several posts in the last 24 hours while using my kindle. The report option is where my thumb scrolls the thread. Please admin...disregard. my reports, Lol!

Maybe Admin can do what Ebay does. When I am deleting an item in my "watch list", before it deletes, a window pops up and asks me "Are you sure you want to delete this item?" I think it would be great if the IT guys can figure out how to do this. And it would cut back on the Admin's work to check each of the "Report this Post."

Sharyn, I too have hit report this post inadvertently. I think most of us probably have. When this happens admin must think we are ALL looney and do not understand why we would object to an innocuous post. Though with my frustration and hurt my language has become objectionable to someone whether it is other posters or admin. As far as I can tell, my posts are all still there, just asteroids in appropriate places.

I apologize to anyone that may have been offended by my comments similar to d**Ned if you do, d**Ned if you don't. Maybe someone new working in admin?
There are a long list of words I will not use.

asteroids? Asterics. Sheesh!

We are not just a looney, wears spacey too!

Gla I doubt anyone here on AC as a caregiver has learnt any new words so throw all the asteroids you want-llivens the place up and gives a laugh for me at least

asteroids? Asterics. Sheesh!