The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

Christine welcome.
Everyone here tries to be helpful supportive and loving but at times it is necessary to hand out a little tough love. I hope you will not judge us if you don't agree with some comments they are only meant to help and they come from people who are living in the world of hard knocks,and many times are at the bottom of their own dark deep holes.
My question to you is why did you take these in laws into your home knowing what they are like? Can you form a plan to take the next step with them and move them on. You are going to ruin your own health if you continue to endure this torture. Blessings

Sharryn you may or may not be an alcoholic but it is important to remember it is a disease not a personal weakness and the hopeful thing to remember is that there is a cure. look for that cure before you do yourself a serious injury. Hugs you have been very brave to share this. No one is going to judge you.

Emjo have you tried vacuuming with some panty hose over the hose on your machine. That is recommended for finding a lost contact lens so it should find a ring

Christine-
How old are the parents? Do you have any children in the home? It is time to find a different living situation for them. This will only impact your own health and relationships.

Thx again pam - good idea! I will mention it to the owner. I don't want to take a big boisterous dog in my car to a busy environment. I can barely handle him on a leash and need to close him in a room before I take my laundry downstairs as he rushes to greet me on the basement stairs = recipe for a fall.

(((((((((Christine))))))) - sounds pretty hard to take. Setting boundaries and detaching are helpful. Can you leave the room when the fight starts - or work with your sig other to get the fights contained to a certain part of the house or find a safe place for you?

Keeping them there for long may be too hard on you and your family. It sounds very toxic. Has a facility been considered? Would your sig other be OK with that? It is best of the two of you are on the same page. Living with two narcissists and one with Alz is more than anyone should have to do.
Home needs to be safe and secure and it sounds like yours is not any more. My heart goes out to you.

There is good stuff on the internet on narcissism and on detachment -the website daughtersofnarcissisticmothers is one place to google for insights into narcissism and how to deal with it. Also google "The Narcissist In Your Life
Linda Martinez-Lewi, Ph.D. Clinical Expert on the Narcissistic Personality" - lots of good links there. You really have to earn how to protect yourself.
Let us know how it goes and comes back and vent all you like. Others here deal with narcissists.
Have a great day and do something good for you!!! Don't lose yourself to the dysfunction!

Hi Veronica 91,
There wasn't much choice. Their doctor and social worker said they could not live alone any more, and Charles is their only family. I am conflict avoidant, they are conflict ridden! Not a great match. I think it will come down to figuring out a way to get them into a nursing home/assisted living situation. And I know, I will be crazy if I don't figure out how to manage this. It has only been a week! They have always lived farther away, so I didn't have to deal with their personalities. Now it is up close and personal. They are both in major denial about their conditions and abilities. My plan is to tend to them and feed them, they are both extremely underweight, and assess the situation for a few months and see what needs to happen. Right now getting them doctors and such here is the first step. And luckily my home has the mother in law plan, so they can have an area to themselves. And so can we. For now it has to be like this.

I know, tough love is good. And I welcome any suggestions or experience.
Thank you for caring,
Christine

Hi GladIAmHere
The parents are in their mid eighties. He is incontinent, she is a little crazy. Well, guess they are both a little crazy. Our kids are all grown and gone. I agree, this can't be a long term thing. But I have no idea of how they will be able to afford an assisted living facility, we certainly can't afford to put them in one. I am trying to research options. They do have a falling down old house, but they are not willing to even think of selling it. More things to figure out. I don't think the dad will be judged competent in any way so might have to do something to get guardianship. He is paranoid about people trying to take his money, though, so it is complicated.
Thanks for caring,
Christine

Hi Emjo,
Wow, thanks for the hugs and the link! I will check that out. This was so sudden I am trying to learn everything and I work full time too. :) Stress central.

I have decided that the next time they get screamy I will leave the room or the house. My sig other is very supportive and is doing all he can to be part of the solution. I am just with them more than he is, he works second shift and I work early. Which is actually good because they are not home alone for long. Right now they are okay alone for a part of the day. But they are there when I get home and I have to tend to them then. Luckily they go to bed early.

A friend told me that she has a rule in her house, she takes care of her parents too. The rule is that she and her husband can talk about the parents and their frustrations for five minutes each day. They set a timer, five minutes each, and then back to normal life things. I think that is great. So we are trying that.

Yes, I have to be careful not to fall into the pit of disfunction. And yesterday I went outside and looked at my roses for a while, that helped. And being able to talk about things here helps too...I am sure I will learn more and I already feel hugged.
Thank you for caring,
Christine

veronica - good suggestion, but I have hardwood floors and have swept and moved furniture and no sign of the rings. They are heavy enough you would hear them if the were swept across the floor. That the three of them are missing and the dog was lying on the chewed box makes me suspicious that he swallowed them. We have checked in and around the love seat he was on and no sign of any of them. Aaaargh!

Christine - no doubt you have a lot of stress and that eventually will affect your health - note I say "will" and not "may". The latest figure is that 40% of caregivers die before the ones they care give. It is a serious matter. I am delighted that your sig other is "with" you in working on the problems. Yes limit your talk about frustrations. but not about solutions, When your in-laws (one or the other) end up in hospital you can refuse to take them back saying that you cannot look after them and then the hospital has to find them a placement. They may well be eligible for Medicaid. Check it out with your local agency for aging and social services. I know it seems a lot when you are working too, but it will pay off. Your sig o could do some of the checking, as well. If your in law's income is below a certain amount they are eligible for Medicaid as long as they do not have more than a certain value of assets, which, if they do, can be "spent down" on appropriate things. It is worth while finding out if they are eligible. You are responsible for paying for their care. There is help out there and FIL will only get worse -the disease progresses -so starting an application for Medicaid soon is a good thing as it takes time to process.
Glad you are taking care of you. Keep it up and come back any time. There is lots of support and experience here. ((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))

Oh wow -describes my situation with my sis to a "T". She played "poor me" and my mother bought it all our lives.

from the website "The Narcissist In Your Life" by Linda Martinez-Lewi, Ph.D. Clinical Expert on the Narcissistic Personality

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Covert Narcissistic Sisters Play and Deceive with “Poor Little Me”

Covert narcissistic sisters play the “poor little me” role in their families to psychologically unhinge and wreak havoc on their non-narcissistic brothers and sisters. They start very early telling lies to the parents about their siblings while playing the innocent role to the hilt.

As they grow older their sabotage escalates, causing great pain emotional and psychological pain. They plot and take boyfriends away from their sisters by telling lies or revealing secrets or conjuring up dirty secrets. They are believable; their lying skills are impeccable. (In my case sis went to mother with stories and a couple of boyfriends were banned from the house and my life).

Parents often make excuses for them especially if this the Golden Child: ”Oh, she is shy and dependent; she is not capable of lying; give her a chance; she’s unsure of herself; you have to be kind to her.” ( I have been told that I had to look after my sister as she was not well - BS)

As she grows older and her psychopathology deepens the CNS becomes even bolder. As the parents age, the CNS becomes “indispensable” to them. In secret she plots and gains power and access to all of their financial assets—properties, investments, etc.

When the parents are gone, everything is left to her—a pittance or less to the other siblings. Who’s saying “Poor Little Her” now!

Covert narcissists are difficult to detect. Learn to recognize them. They are too “good” to be true. Always trust your Intuition, your Gut, that Sense of Knowing you have that is a great gift.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is so great to see this laid out so clearly. My sis has gotten more overtly nasty as she got older, and bolder in attacking me. I don't think she has succeeded with getting all the inheritance, but I know she has had that goal for most of her adult life. I guess we will find out after mother dies. The social worker is amazed that sis has not called or written me to find out how mother is. I know she is not really interested in mother, just what mother can do for her.

If this rings true for anyone - protect yourself.

Glad, I think you have one too! Maybe others as well.

Hi Emjo,
Thanks for the info, and hugs back!
Christine

So, does anyone have any advice on what I can say when my fil gets upset and starts accusing us of kidnapping them and holding them against their will, and saying to take him home immediately. I read that I should try to validate him, and not argue. So I said that I knew it was hard, and this is his home now. That only seemed to escalate things. He said that he had worked all his life to have his home and that he could take care of himself. Well, he can't. I went through different emotions, sadness and tears, because I feel sorry for him that he can't function any more and is hating that. And then frustration and some anger that he was saying hateful things to me. I know he can't help it. and I can control myself but he can't. He sat and sulked and gave me mean looks for an hour or so, and then the next morning it was as if nothing had happened. So he can forget but I can't. Although I see that I have to.

Anyway, any ideas on what I can say to soothe him?
Hugs
Christine

camaryllis, he sounds right now like he doesn't need soothing. But you do. I'm not a professional (duh), and this isn't a miracle cure, but what works for me is to give this a few days to fade a little bit. If you're not going to see your fil for a little while, that's a good thing. If you can take a quiet walk someplace in nature, I promise you this really helps. And sometimes silly little rituals help too -- like, when I come home after a visit with my mother, the first thing I do is jump in the shower, change my clothes, take the dog for a walk, and my head and heart will clear up a bit.

Hi Looloo,
Haha, yes, truly, you are right. I went and looked at my roses the other night. I wasn't sure if just exiting stage right when he gets agitated was the right thing to do. I know he can't help this and can't learn to control himself or anything. He lives with us now, so I can go to another room but didn't want to make things worse.

Hugs
Christine

Camaryllis-depending on how advanced the dementia is, you might try what I do with my mother. I tell her she can go home when the Dr fills out the paperwork. She accepts it then forgets about it but asks again when I visit. You could try saying he can go home when work on the house is done.

Thank you Book and Veronica. I will get through this...the gash on my forehead is a good reminder as well as the the look of horror on my husbands face when he returned from the store...he had only been gone a few minutes. Hugs!

EMJO.
I used to know I had one, but that past year and a half tell me I have two. Looking forward to karma.

Camaryllis, recently someone posted that they lit a Lavender candle, and that evening was calmer. Worth a try. I did have a boss one time who was a screamer. He came to my desk yelling and pounding the desktop. I tried yelling and pounding back, but that just made it worse. So one afternoon here he comes, bellowing, cursing, BOOM on the desk. I got up, walked around the desk, got up close to him, and he was twice my size, and I spoke softly, almost in a whisper about the issue at hand. He was dumbstruck. He had no idea how to act or speak with a calm person. He never pounded my desk again.

I don't know about getting up close and personal to someone with dementia who is yelling at you. Never know how they will react. For me with an abusive background, that's like making yourself easy target for the yelling to become physical. {Shudder}… but if you can, respond back with calmness.

I have a very short temper which I was able to control at age 23. Now.... father yells at me, I yell back. I agree the situation worsens. Oldest sis responds calmly, father treats her like dirt. When father yells at me, I still revert back to my childhood, and become terrified inside. Fight or flight respond. I'm embarrassed to say that I automatically fight. I'm still trying to figure out a way, too. {hugs}

Pam is right as usual but few of us have her guts. My last boss had a way of dealing with infractions that reduced grown women to tears. She was is actually the most caring of people. If I was in the firing line before I presented myself for a scolding I would say to myself "What's the worse thing she can do to me Fire me?" I was already a couple of years beyond retiring age so it dis not matter but I was able to remain calm and we would have a sensible conversation and problem solved.
Now I know it is not that simple with FIL but you are not going to make anything worse by taking yourself out of the line of fire. He will soon get tired of yelling at himself and hopefully will have forgotten all about it when you come back - and don't hurry. i like Sharayns idea of telling him he can go home when the Dr complets the paperwork or the house is rewired or whatever.
i read an article on Borderline personality disorder nd both Book and Emjo deal with that. What i took away from it was that the peron fixes on a person close to them in this case the two daughters and are hateful to them, refusing to co operate in any way down to not wearing clothes selected and worse smearing poop on the bathroom walls, refusing food prepared even if it is their favorite and ordering something from take out. An experience professional caregiver may be able to gain their confidence. Ladee m is an expert at winning the demented elder over but it does take time and skill and as others have said they never settle down and accept things. I think a few months Christine may be more than you can tolerate. You may have seperate quarters in the house but before long they are likely to invade your privacy too. SO is free during the early part of the day so send him out to start finding alternatives. If you have an Office on Aging that is a good place to start. He should also consult an elder care attorney to try and get POA lined up. They should also be contributing to household expences too. Neither of you is required to support them financially.

bookluvr, I hear you. My father was very military and very intimidating. My boss worked in construction and was very intimidating. Both of them were good at ordering adult men around. The secret rule for both of them was: never hit a woman, after all women are small and weak. I didn't change the rules, I just played their own game against them.

I am so grateful for the 12 step programs of AA and Al-Anon. My Al-Anon sponsor became my "adopted" mom, the mother I never had. She died 3 years ago. I have one of the cards she wrote me and her picture over my kitchen sink. I miss her every day. I went to Al-Anon for 14 years. It changed my life. I recommend it highly to anyone who is struggling with the disease of alcoholism or has it in friends or family.

Common Situation #2: Aggressive Speech or Actions

Examples: Statements such as “I don’t want to take a shower!”, “I want to go home!”, “I don’t want to eat that!” may escalate into aggressive behavior.

Explanation: The most important thing to remember about verbal or physical aggression, says the Alzheimer’s Association, is that your loved one is not doing it on purpose. Aggression is usually triggered by something—often physical discomfort, environmental factors such as being in an unfamiliar situation, or even poor communication. “A lot of times aggression is coming from pure fear,” says Tresa Mariotto, Family Ambassador at Silverado Senior Living in Bellingham, WA. “People with dementia are more apt to hit, kick, or bite” in response to feeling helpless or afraid.

Ann Napoletan, who writes for Caregivers.com, is all too familiar with this situation. “As my mom’s disease progressed, so did the mood swings. She could be perfectly fine one moment, and the next she was yelling and getting physical. Often, it remained a mystery as to what prompted the outburst. For her caregivers, it was often getting dressed or bathing that provoked aggression.”

DO: The key to responding to aggression caused by dementia is to try to identify the cause—what is the person feeling to make them behave aggressively? Once you’ve made sure they aren’t putting themselves (or anyone else) in danger, you can try to shift the focus to something else, speaking in a calm, reassuring manner.

“This is where truly knowing your loved one is so important,” says Ann Napoletan. “In my mom’s case, she didn’t like to be fussed over. If she was upset, oftentimes trying to talk to her and calm her down only served to agitate her more. Likewise, touching her–even to try and hold her hand or gently rub her arm or leg–might result in her taking a swing. The best course of action in that case was to walk away and let her have the space she needed.”

DON’T: “The worst thing you can do is engage in an argument or force the issue that’s creating the aggression,” Ann says. “Don’t try to forcibly restrain the person unless there is absolutely no choice.” Tresa Mariotto agrees: “The biggest way to stop aggressive behavior is to remove the word ‘no’ from your vocabulary.”

Common Situation #2: Confusion About Time or Place

Examples: “I want to go home!” , “This isn’t my house.” , “When are we leaving? Why are we here?”

Explanation: Wanting to go home is one of the most common reactions for an Alzheimer’s or dementia patient living in a memory care facility. Remember that Alzheimer’s causes progressive damage to cognitive functioning, and this is what creates the confusion and memory loss. There’s also a psychological component, says Tresa: “Often people are trying to go back to a place where they had more control in their lives.”

DO: There are a few possible ways to respond to questions that indicate your loved one is confused about where he or she is. Simple explanations along with photos and other tangible reminders can help, suggests the Alzheimer’s Association. Sometimes, however, it can be better to redirect the person, particularly in cases where you’re in the process of moving your loved one to a facility or other location.

“The better solution is to say as little as possible about the fact that they have all of their belongings packed and instead try to redirect them–find another activity, go for a walk, get a snack, etc.,” says Ann Napoletan. “If they ask specific questions such as ‘When are we leaving?’ you might respond with, ‘We can’t leave until later because…’ the traffic is terrible / the forecast is calling for bad weather / it’s too late to leave tonight.”

“You have to figure out what’s going to make the person feel the safest,” says Tresa Mariotto, even if that ends up being “a therapeutic lie.”

DON’T: Lengthy explanations or reasons are not the way to go. “You can’t reason with someone who has Alzheimer’s or dementia,” says Ann. “It just can’t be done.” In fact, says Tresa, “A lot of times we’re triggering the response that we’re getting because of the questions we’re asking.”

This was another familiar situation for Ann and her mother. “I learned this one the hard way. We went through a particularly long spell where every time I came to see my mom, she would have everything packed up ready to go–EVERYTHING! …Too many times, I tried to reason with her and explain that she was home; this was her new home. Inevitably things would get progressively worse.”

Common Situation #3: Poor Judgment or Cognitive Problems

Examples: Unfounded accusations: “You stole my vacuum cleaner!”

Trouble with math or finances: “I’m having trouble with the tip on this restaurant bill.”

Other examples: unexplained hoarding/stockpiling, repetition of statements or tasks

Explanation: The deterioration of brain cells caused by Alzheimer’s is a particular culprit in behaviors showing poor judgment or errors in thinking. These can contribute to delusions, or untrue beliefs. Some of these problems are obvious, such as when someone is hoarding household items, or accuses a family member of stealing something. Some are more subtle, however, and the person may not realize that they are having trouble with things that they never used to think twice about.

According to Ann Napoletan, “There came a time when I began to suspect my mom was having problems keeping financial records in order. At the time, she was living independently and was very adamant about remaining in her house. Any discussion to the contrary, or really any comment that eluded to the fact that she may be slipping, was met with either rage or tears. It was when she asked me to help with her taxes that I noticed the checking account was a mess.”

DO: First you’ll want to assess the extent of the problem. “If you’re curious and don’t want to ask, take a look at a heating bill,” suggests Tresa Mariotto. “Sometimes payments are delinquent or bills aren’t being paid at all.” You can also flip through their checkbook and look at the math, or have them figure out the tip at a restaurant.

The Alzheimer’s Association says to be encouraging and reassuring if you’re seeing these changes happen. Also, you can often minimize frustration and embarrassment by offering help in small ways with staying organized. This is what Ann did for her mother: “As I sifted through records to complete her tax return, I gently mentioned noticing a couple of overdraft fees and asked if the bank had perhaps made a mistake. As we talked through it, she volunteered that she was having more and more difficulty keeping things straight, knew she had made some errors, and asked if I would mind helping with the checkbook going forward. I remember her being so relieved after we talked about it.” From there, over time, Ann was gradually able to gain more control over her mother’s finances.

DON’T: What you shouldn’t do in these circumstances is blatantly question the person’s ability to handle the situation at hand, or try to argue with them. “Any response that can be interpreted as accusatory or doubting the person’s ability to handle their own affairs only serves to anger and put them on the defensive,” says Ann.

Are you a caregiver or family member of someone with dementia? Do any of these situations sound familiar? We want to hear your stories, too—please feel free to share them in the comments.

Dementia Care Dos & Don'ts: Dealing with Dementia Behavior Problems by Sarah Stevenson

Emjo - read your post on the Narcissist in your life. That sounded so much like my baby sister before the parents shipped her out to older sis to 'straighten her up.' She was and is the Golden child. The parents finally threw in the towel when sis threatened to call the cops that the parents abused her - if they didn't let her go out with her friends - at age 11. So she was able to come and go. The tattleteller. etc...

Sharyn, thanks for the info, too. I also copied/pasted it. Very hard to not argue or show doubts of their words.

Camarillys,

Try not to engage w/you in laws when they get this way. I know that is easier said than done, also. But.....really in your FIL's demential condition, if you're saying he makes a fuss then forgets about it, that says quite a lot, about his cognitive thinking. I think it only makes it worse when one engages, thereby only making it a mass confused dialogue between you and him. It's like one has to disarm the aggressor, and the only way for that to happen is to, yes I think leaving the room is a good idea.

Maybe this taste of having them in your home is good in that it's a window what it could be like. Since you've told us that there's a social worker involved, maybe there could be a way to see if they could qualify for a NH, ALF, etc.
But don't get trapped in something like this if you feel that you aren't going to be able to handle this either. Other's here have given you great ideas as to how to handle those times when they get out of hand.

I've a sister who takes care of mom, w/ALZ. A few years ago, it was also our aunt, mom's sister. My sister moved into mother's home to administer care.
She hired paid caregivers, since she works full time. Our aunt was a very difficult person. My sister always got too caught up meeting resistance w/resistance.
She's not an easy personality either. But when she'd call to endlessly complain,
and she'd tell me stories of the arguments, or struggles......many times I felt,
"If my sister could only take herself out of the equation if only in her mind, when my aunt would act up." No, instead my sister unfortunately inflamed many situations, and much of it was the reaction my sister had to the aggression.

Anyway, I do hope that you and your husband are able to find some assistance with regards to the care of his parents.

Hugs,
Much Love & Light! Margeaux

of my car.Emjo,

This article about "The Narcissist in Your Life," brilliant!
I can definitely see my sister in there. In her case.....she didn't play the "poor little me." but definitely her lies, jealousy.....then my parent's dysfunction played into her ploys. She never got along w/mom back in the day. Yet......she thought nothing of asking mother many years ago, to co-sign for her and the ex on a loan through mother's credit union. She's derived many financial benefits through the years, as well as golden boy from our parents. She loves to feel so powerful, and above people. What she doesn't stop to think is that in many instances she's in good financial shape, because of other people's help. She even rented a 3 bedroom house from the battle ax for over 15 years, way below market value. Thank you for posting this. I'm definitely going to look this up,
because I can see my sister in this. On top of all that......she loves to look down upon people, when it comes to their money. Recently, when her daughter had the Baptismal event in mom's home, she complained about an aunt on the daughter's dad's side of the family, who didn't attend. I told my sister I'd heard she couldn't attend, because she was asked to work, overtime. My sister's response was something like, "Oh yeah, she has to work, because she's hard up for money, these days." This attitude for me is so repugnant. She's always made comments of the sort about many people, I'm sure even about me behind my back.

Have you had any success finding those rings?

Hugs,
Much Love & Light! Margeaux

Emjo,

Please disregard those first words, "of my car."
I edited my post, so doesn't have anything to do w/the rest of it.]

Margeaux

no rings - but a sewer back up this morning. Aaaargh!!!!

thanks for this thread. I'll read more later. Just told this morning my fil has dementia. I think my husband and sil were in denial. I had stepped back and let my sil take over, and she went back home to take care of her husband in the hospital. Guess who was left hold the "caregivers" bag. Me. Now she is back up here again and I have stepped back again. Fil was recently in ICU and bil and sil who stopped speaking to us was in there. We walked in. ( I walked in just after my fil and aspirated on some food and there were suctioning him out, so you know how he was looking when I saw him last) I went in to ICU to find him sitting up talking and smiling, I couldn't believe it. I was talking to him and nurse came in and said ONLY 2 please. Our sil informed us "We drive all this way, and we won't be staying long, so we aren't leaving." My husband shook his head and smiled and walked out, I just followed. Later that evening, I went over to see fil and was talking to him, when...in walks the same ils. Nurse reminds them Two Please. Sil walks out. I'm thinking about it, and get up and say "Go on in, since your heading back" response is "Thanks, although I am surprised" talk about dysfunctional families!! They didn't talk to my fil for over a year after my mil died, nobody knows why, prior to that, that came up sporadic and would stay an hour or two. Sorry, for ranting, But I really don't have anyone else to talk to about this. Just grateful I have you all here. As for fil, wait till sil leaves again, then step back in, till she decides to return....

Call Forrest Gump. " Shit Happens"