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CM many people just want absolutely nothing to do with ex's. It sounds as if you and he had a cordial splitting, maybe even friendly. That was the same with me and my ex. When I was a child I went through the extremely nasty divorce of my fooks!, and when it finally finished after a four or five year battle I was all of 12 years old. I and ex swore to never put our kids through that.

Best wishes to you and ex.
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cm - I am so sorry about ex partner. You can't ignore him, nor are you. Is this going to throw a spanner in the works re selling up and moving? It is good that his ex is taking an interest. He can use all the support he can get. Don't forget about you in the meanwhile, and, as you say, your mother still needs care. Oh dear! Deep breaths, one thing at a time...will get you through it all. Thankfully you are still young (compared to me) which helps. ((((((hugs)))))))
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CM sorry for ex thats a big worry. if he does do the radical see if he can get the De Vinci proceedure. it is minimally invasive and very rapid recovery. One night in the hospital and little pain. He will have a catheter for ten days which he can manage perfectly well on his own. Just make sure he keeps it firmly connected.
Maybe ex wife nursie would like to undertake the care? lay in a good supply of Depends. You can get them now that look like regular underwear. Hubby says the incontinence does not bother him at all. It's more like leakage than all the time but some days are worse than others.
You don't need to worry about providing care unless he does not get a complete surgical cure than it's a whole new ball of wax. If his PSA re sts to zero you are in the clear, otherwise ?????????????????? ship him out real fast it will be a long unpleasant haul for you both. Mum is still #1 he has made that clear or do I hear a change of heart and renewed appreciation creeping in? Mega hugs
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Emjo the way I feel at the moment I'm 108..!

Glad, you're absolutely right: once you've both established you'd rather not be together, why make it worse? But I'm sorry you had to go through that experience yourself. Divorce is always hard for children no matter how much care you take; an acrimonious, long-drawn out divorce must have been horrendous. Sending you a back rub to help those memories...

I'm cutting ex some extra slack on top of allowances for his stress and his feeling generally unwell, because I do have an edge on him: which is that if there's one useful skill boarding school teaches you, it's how to live in day to day harmony with people you don't much like. Also he is a good man having a difficult time. It's hard to know what to recommend, though - he starts talking, which is good, but then he gets self-conscious and clams up again. We've got medics of all descriptions for him to talk things through if he likes, and I've suggested he look at a men's health forum and get some peers' opinions. But this is the kind of issue that makes his brain hurt - he really hates hypothetical dilemmas, much prefers to decide-and-go. "This is doing my head in" as he puts it.

I could point out that thirty years ago his symptoms would have been put down to 'what do you expect at your age' and he wouldn't have been around for long enough to worry - but I won't do that :) Not helpful.

I'm keeping mother in the loop, after some internal debate about it. Decided it would make life easier, since she picks up on unspoken issues very quickly and it's so much simpler just to tell her what's really going on. Recently she's been fretting about having caused us to break up - you have to laugh, don't you; the arch non-believer in Freud displaying perfect oral fixation - but physical health matters she finds much easier to process and be sanguine about. She's not being callous: she's just as matter of fact (or possibly in denial?) about her own disease. Rogue cells she can cope with. Emotions, now…

After my recent optimism about her mood, she's been confabulating with a vengeance for two days straight on subjects from her bedside clock to the rules of the Lawn Tennis Association to the steady stream of passers-by outside her window (lots of old friends on parade!): I may have hoorayed too soon. Oh bollocks to it - since I'm stuck with thorny issues today I might as well go and dig out some brambles. At least that way I get a nice tidy hedge out of it.
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Sorry Veronica, our posts crossed - thank you for the signposts. I offered to go with him to see the consultant, and I would have liked to, but he said no and it's up to him. The consultant sounds like a goody, though, which is something; and at least for now we're blessed with district nurses (no I didn't know there still were any either). I won't mind doing the necessary - good practice for mother's future! - but I think he might mind, and anyway he does follow medical instructions fairly well so he should manage ok. We'll work it out.

I can just see his ex volunteering to care for him. Out of common humanity and respect I won't let it happen if I can help it. Yes I am aware of how fantastically hypocritical this will sound (actually his leaving her was NOT my idea, but never mind all that, it's too late) but given their history she would be out of her mind to sacrifice any of the new life she's built without him. She's approaching retirement on a career high, she's worked her a*se off for it, and in those terms being left was the best thing that ever happened to her after decades of having her profession sneered at because of its low pay compared to his. I imagine he is having wistful thoughts about having let her go - but what can you say? Yes, well, you should have thought of that before.

And in fact he might have thought of it by remembering the time when she was caring for his dying mother and he was too much in pieces to help. Well. "Don't it always seem to go…"
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Good morning,
Well, last night was peaceful. MIL decided she needed to help more with FIL, which seemed to help him settle down. Whew. She has been a stress cookie, has been doing the caretaking for him for the past few years while hiding it from everyone how bad he was getting. I can relate.

So, has anyone had any experience with using melatonin to help with sleep? I have been researching this, and thought it might be useful to calm FIL down a bit at night, when he is most agitated. There seem to be few side effects, and no major drug interactions. He takes a handful of pills twice a day already, wouldn't notice if I added one. I also read that vitamin B6/B12/Folic Acid might be helpful. Although he now eats a nutritious diet (apart from the occasional sandwich supper, haha) so maybe not needed. But, wondering if anyone has had any experience with this, or if all I would have as a result is very expensive pee? :)
Thanks for listening,
Christine
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Camaryllis, I'd try a nice warm mug of cocoa on him first before splashing out on the, er, what you said..!
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cm - I know the feeling. I used to say 96, but that is only 20 years away now, so it will have to be 106 for me.

Christine - I know someone who swears by melatonin, but they do not have dementia. She says once she takes it she has a "window" to get to bed and fall asleep. Is he sundowning? There are drugs that help with that. His dr could recommend something.

Austin - thinking of you and you missing your kitty. (((((((hugs)))))

well, we have a free van for today and a reliable guy to help for tomorrow. G is always last minute with arrangements. He usually figures things out, but has several major issues at work to deal with as well. I told him if he can still get the reliable guy to go ahead and rent a van for tomorrow, but that being the end of the month, it might not be so easy. As a back up, I have arranged that we can still do it Sunday, but we will have to pay an extra day at mother's place. After them collecting rent while it was sitting empty, and not providing any services in that time, you would think they could stretch it, but no. Boy, they get their lb. of flesh and blood too. I haven't told G about the back up yet. So I am sitting and waiting and trying to relax. This will be over in the next few days.
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Camaryllis, there is a thread on AC about melatonin if you haven't read the posts I have tried to copy the link below. My mother uses it with success after trying other drugs that had not helped and side effects were involved with the drugs. Good Luck.
https://www.agingcare.com/questions/melatonin-for-mom-with-alzheimers-168704.htm?cpage=0&post=1&cm=352837&z=1#352837
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CM Thank you, every back rub helps!

Out of curiosity what is his PSA level? Mom's hubby's is all over the place, he has been told he has prostate cancer. But at the age of 87 now, he doesn't want to do anything about it. In the past three years I have seen it as high as 34 and as low as 17. Bizarre! He sees the urologist twice a year and keeps track of it. Cancer in him is progressing very, very slowly, possibly due to his age. Just a guess. He does have trouble with incontinence and urgency, but at this point manages this himself. He is taking a drug call Mybetriq, I think, that helps a lot with the urgency. There are currently ads for it on TV here.
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Glad, I think it's true that one of the problems of relying on PSA levels is that they can zoom about all over the place - if it's up it's up, but if it's down it might still be up, kind of thing. I can't remember the recent numbers; he had an isolated 24 six or seven years ago and saw a urologist then, too, but it all seemed to settle down with some short-term medication and at the time nobody was inclined to do anything further about it. He's always been really good about regular check-ups, though (just as well!). I'd love to snatch the file out of his hand and have a good read - but if he wants to keep his business private then of course I won't do that. He knows where we all are if he wants moral support. Hmm. Ex is 65, you see; and his younger brother has been having a rough time over the last couple of years with the same thing.

[Veronica, you'd know: did I read something about molecular similarities between breast and prostate cancers, or am I imagining it? It's just these men's mother died of breast cancer fairly young, you can't help wondering about the genetics of the thing.]

Glad, I'm sorry your s/f is having a frightening time of it. Yes, you'd have thought that if you've got to 87 you'd feel reassured that it couldn't be too aggressive or it would have got you by now; but on the other hand it's not something you'd choose to deal with at any age, I suppose. I hear lots of (usually male) doctors jovially telling men "you'll die with it, not of it." Well. That might be a consoling thought for the younger age groups; less so for those who are - how do we put it - nearer the front of the queue.

Thanks for the Mybetriq tip, I'll make a note - being "up and down like a whore's drawers" (his expression, not mine!) all night needing the bathroom does drive him mad and make him very tired. He's not a keen pill-popper (who is) but maybe he'll give it a try.


Ugh, Emjo, spontaneous seat-of-the-pants type people make me very twitchy - even if they do always seem to pull rabbits out of the hat in time. I like exhaustive lists and minute by minute schedules, then I know where I am. But, there it is. Very wise to keep the Plan B up your sleeve - it would only encourage him!
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Thanks, Shilo, I will give it a try. He doesn't like cocoa, or tea. Difficult patient! :) but he will take his handful of pills every night. So adding another one.
Thank you
Christine
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Hello all,
I want to say thank you to all of you, reading your posts and hearing your caring and advice has saved my sanity, what there was of it. I don't feel alone, which really helps me. And it is great to know that other people have survived this process.
Thanks for listening,
Christine
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lol cm - I prefer plans made well ahead, though he usually manages to pull things off. He is getting better with travel/holiday plans. I have insisted that I don't want surprises. Plan B only comes out if absolutely necessary, but it makes me more comfortable knowing we have that option. Pa

Re ex I gather there is a question now how useful the PSA tests are. However I also gather he has had more tests than that and they show a cancer that needs to be dealt with. I hear you about his ex.

I find that just when you think you have one issue pretty well in hand, another comes along to upset the apple cart.
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Warning, slight rant ahead.
In other news, speaking of dysfunctional families, we now have some new players in this mess, Charles' son, who hasn't been speaking to him for the past year, upon hearing that the parents are now with us, is emailing with his list of things we 'must' do. Son's wife went to college for social work, but didn't ever practice and is not licensed. Just demanding and bossy. Oh brother. I fully expect to be visited by the Elder Abuse people if we don't comply with his demands. And then a grandson of theirs has decided that he wants their property, and is saying the MIL said he could have it. She is not the one with dementia. Ah. Not bad enough, now this. The son is coming next week to 'visit his grandparents' and I am planning on being elsewhere. Because I would like to punch him in the nose. My first thought is that if he is so interested in their welfare maybe they can come live at his house and his stupid wife can take care of them. I am angry and have to chill. What is wrong with people? On my side of the family I have another relative that is living with her daughter's family, and one of the aunts has a lot of criticism for how the daughter is managing. When she complains to me I suggest that the relative come live with her, as she has room and time to deal. She always has an excuse. My patience is at an all time low...I am sure this is not uncommon. But dang, what can you do? Besides ignore any idiots that cross your path. Grrr.
Thanks for listening,
Christine
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ah tqh
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my computer is acting up today again.

Christine -the distant relatives are thorns in many sides. - armchair experts who wouldn't lift a finger to help but who criticise freely, and even threaten to get you in trouble. Greed seems to be a motive for many. What do you do? Vent as you are, work at detaching and chilling, as you are. Recognize them for who they are, ignore a lot of what they say - which you are working on. It makes a difficult job that much more difficult and stressful. Welcome to the club. I wish there didn't have to be one, but it helps knowing you are not alone.
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Cam, search sibling stories on AC and you will, again, realise that You Are Not Alone. Backseat caregivers aren't always siblings, of course, but the same thing applies. It's amazing how much 'wonderful' advice people have to offer when they haven't the first idea what they're talking about. When I figure out how to NOT want (there now, I've split an infinitive - that's what a wind-up this is) to punch my SIL in the face I shall be sure to pass it on.

Nuts to what grandson thinks grandma said he could have. She said, he said, la-di-da… Where's the signed affidavit? Get your ground rules set in stone now and there'll be less trouble down the line.

One tip that really does save trouble, and has become a bit of a hobby-horse with me, is: if Grandma has got nice things she'd like to bequeath in the fullness of time, do your best to persuade her it's better to present them to people now. That way she gets to choose who gets what, and they get to thank her in person. My aunt did this with her jewellery and I shall be forever grateful to her for the example. Of course if any items have significant monetary value she'll also need to keep records; and in a second people will come online and tell you to watch out for 'lookbacks.' But that's a whole 'nother story.
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Christine, Isn't it ironic how all the caregivers need to be told how to take care of the individual? No let me help. What can I do to help? Do you need anything? I can do...if you think it will help. NO,NO,NO Unless someone is paying me to 'take care' of my mother it is not their place to tell me how to take care of her. You (me) stubborn old german/ polish/ kraut/... and nobody is going to tell me what I should or should not be doing as a caregiver. I blocked some e-mail addresses and changed my phone number. There take that, solves that problem. It wasn't that simple but it felt good and less stress since there is less communication.
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Christine, I forgot to thank you for your warning. I went and got a snack first. lol
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Been wanting to comment and share, but so busy and tired past two days! Today was all day at VA, starting at 8am and ending after 5. Then the hour drive home in Chicago rush hour traffic. I'm beat. And I'm not happy with the waffling VA docs who keep changing their direction on what dad's catheter prognosis is. More steps (read: several additional appointments) were added today instead of today's appt being a final test of bladder function (he's had several already, I agreed to do as many as possible, to give him every chance to be without catheter, even when dad and doc said go ahead and do permanent catheter through abdominal wall...) So... What just happened? Not cool! This is not what different doc said previously!!! I'm so tired I can't see straight. I'm angry, frustrated, tired and must rest before I murder someone... likely would be my father and its not even his fault - today. ;-) (((hugs))) and hugs to me, too, today, I need one. :-/
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Hmm this caught my eye.dysfunctional families.omg.
Its a scarey thing to be around
And i have the family to prove it.
I wished id stayed away like i was
Told.but no me i try to make peace
But peace doesnt come for you
It only comes for some bullies
and physical and mental abusers
In your life if they are still controling you like they did as children.i hate my family and fo good cause. You cant change situations if people think they are always right.and you are dirt..and as long as you are the whippin boy they are happy..by the way i read a post with that name that fits.. why do some families fight cause they were raised to. And as long as the link is there it will be til.death.
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((((((hugs))))) Alison - you did have a difficult day. Please rest and plan something nice for you. I am not clear - did they implant the catheter? What a long day, and exhausting! Big hugs to you for all you do for him

(((((bananas))))) - welcome. I like your name. You fit in here well. Sadly, many of us have the family to prove it. Whipping boys, scape goats, the Cinderella child, the golden child (not many of those around here), narcissism, personality disorders, paranoia, manipulation, FOG - (Fear, Guilt and Obligation) then add in dementias/alz. Not a pretty sight and tough to deal with. Number one - take care of you!

It has been an adventure this afternoon and evening. G came alone to tackle the moving, took a lot of smaller stuff to the storage unit and then went out and "found" someone to help with the bigger stuff. "Someone" smelled richly of booze, but he could walk straight and ended up being helpful. Most of it is in the storage unit. We have to pack up much of the kitchen still, but that is not a huge amount of work. I pooped out after several hours of packing and wrapping and my back is sore. The loading door was locked at one point. "No one told me it was being used" said the lady on duty. Then she didn't know how to unlock it. G in the meanwhile was not going to be stopped by a door, so he yanked and smacked things and eventually it opened.

Tonight I walked back to the hotel while G and "el vino" went off to unload the last of the big things. Too late for the hot tub, but maybe tomorrow morning to ease the aches. This is the third furniture move in 4 1/2 years. By the time we get her into her new facility it will be 4 times in 5 years. I don't want to do this again, but we will have to deal with it in 6 months or whenever they move her, and then deal with disposing of what won't fit into her new place. That should be it for a while.
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Emjo how about disposing of it - lock, stock and barrel, house clearance service, whatever - and getting new stuff for her new place? Which, by the way, you have delivered and do not heft around yourself. My goodness (grumble mutter rhubarb grump) you do get an awful lot of work, as in actual hard physical work, still handed to you. More delegation!

I thought everyone here would like this comment, and I mean to bear it constantly in mind: "People who make you miserable have just as big a hold on your heart as the ones who bring you joy."

If anyone's wondering, this comment was made by Graham Norton in his fortnightly column. Graham is a tv presenter, commentator and - not so many people know this - Agony Uncle for the Daily Telegraph, one of the UK's stuffier, respectable newspapers: if you like (very camp) impish charm and a mischievous sense of humour, look him up; but the main thing is that he is a clever man with the kindest heart imaginable.
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Sandwtch thanks for the recipe always looking for meal plans-have some ground sausage in the freezer that I might use. I serve thick soup one night with texas toast and another night sandwiches -makes meal planning easier.
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Good morning,
Well, another surprisingly peaceful evening yesterday. Although at dinner FIL started talking about Hiroshima, guess he was there in the war, and started crying and kind of wailing. I didn't know what to do, my first thought is great, let's add PTSD to the insane cocktail of all this. I patted his hand and let him talk. Charles finally told him to stop talking about it though, he said it wasn't helping for his dad to ruminate about it. So FIL stopped talking. I took him outside and sat him on the side deck, and told him to look at the trees and think about peace. Then I made some strawberry shortcake, that helped too. He went to bed peacefully.

Last night I also went to my room and read for a while, and let Charles handle the old ones. I felt a little better after that. Even if Charles wasn't here, I think I could do that for a little while, anyway, and that would help me disconnect.
Have a peaceful day, all
Christine
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Christine you are adapting so well and finding ways to cope. Some people never do it but you are way ahead of the curve.
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Wow, Christine, that was a fun subject to have dropped on the dinner table. I wouldn't have thought he'd have been actually in Hiroshima itself, but I'm sure it would have made a very strong impression on him as part of his war experiences. Perhaps we forget, at this distance, what an apocalyptic event the deployment of nuclear weapons was. What was your FIL saying about it?

If this seems set to be a recurring theme and you want to brush up on it to get on his wavelength, The World At War documentary series (made in the 1970s, narrated by Laurence Olivier) gives a plain if harrowing account. Don't let him watch it with you, obviously! And I wouldn't recommend it if you're off to bed any time soon. I'm not disagreeing that distraction is the right strategy, not at all; but you might find it easier to catch his attention if you can meet him halfway.

And, of course, you may already know quite as much as you've ever wanted to know about Hiroshima, thank you very much! - it's just a suggestion.

You are doing fabulously well, all the right things. Well done to you.
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Just totally lost a post - We will finish up today and be thankful this phase us over.

cm - thought about it but you cant have a sale from the ALF, so it had to be moved anyway. Like G Norton's quote, very true, then thought you were describing my G! Definitely impish charm, mischievous sense of humor, clever and kind. G is off already hauling horses, I slept in and feel quite decent. Yes, I get a lot of physical work and expense thrown at me. I tell myself that exercise is good for me, and I am thankful I can afford the expenses.

Austin - love soup - make all kinds of it. Glad to see you back posting.

Christine -I agree with veronica and cm, you are doing so well!!! So important to be able to disconnect for a while.

Working on compartmentalizing. It is something G does too well, and from which I would benefit. Tomorrow will be a ME day. The move should be over.

Monday I return and have to find somewhere to store basement stuff as the lads need their trailer back. We may need to rent storage up there or hurriedly put up a shed in the garden, the worst part of which would be getting a base prepared for putting it on. I have given it to G to think about. I know need to do some sorting before it goes anywhere. Don't want to store stuff I will only toss anyway.
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Oh and in the middle of all this someone hacked into my PayPal account. I have them looking into it. Thankfully it was only a little more than $40 and I caught it quickly and changed my pw. It was after the big eBay hack. I changed my eBay pw -should have thought to change my PP one. I think I will close it and get a 2nd credit card only for online purchases. It seems that ccs are safer than PP.

Have a good day everyone and do something good for you. I think a nice salad for lunch is in order.
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