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Christine it is bad enough. It is not an execution it is an EVALUATION. This should not have to be your responsibility you are not his wife or daughter. But you seem to have taken on the responsibility out of the kindness of your heart but enough is enough. They may be able to stabilize him enough to bring him home but a facility is the utimate long term decision. As he progresses which you admit he is doing rapidly you will not be able to manage him at home. he may be thin and weak but somewhere in there he may find the strength to become violent and hurt you or MIL. Isn't it better to take him in now for an evaluation than have to go through all the trauma of having the cops come and manhandle him. Do not wait another week to consult a Dr you don't yet know who may just pat you on the shoulder and tell you to take grandpa home and give him one of these nice pills at night.Tell not ask MIL what needs to be done. if you ask her she may waver even though she knows taking him to the ER is the right thing to do. do you have a freind who can go with you for moral support?
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Christine, I will bet that if you can summon the strength to say to your husband, "The insanity is officially stopping NOW," and be the one to call 911, everyone in your household will be so relieved. Your FIL will get the professional attention he desperately needs, and you'll get the peace and quiet YOU desperately need. The time is NOW, don't suffer one more day. Be your family's hero :). Hugs.
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Christine - you are afraid that an NH may shorten his life
a few points
- as you say he doesn't have much of a life anyway, he lives in fear/distress often and the disease is progressing. He is in emotional pain. If he was in this kind of physical pain would you not get him the right treatment?
- quality vs quantity - at his age and with his disease quality is usually better
- an NH will get him the care he needs and should improve his quality of life and may therefor lengthen it or may not
- what about your and your family's quality and length of life. This is very stressful for all of you.
- what about mil? This must be very hard on her too.
- when is it bad enough? If you are asking that question it is bad enough.

Hugs and blessings
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Camaryllis,

You have come here often enough with detailed stories about your in laws, and the difficulties that just keep getting worse. I realize that venting really helps you.
However, I'm getting the feeling that for what ever reason it may be.....both you and your husband are dragging your feet about getting this man evaluated. You've said, "I am fairly sure that it w/shorten his life to put him in a nursing home." Also,
you're saying that "what's the point, since there's not much of him left." These as far as I know are judgment calls on your part. No one knows whether in fact this would be the case. This is really based more on your opinion. We don't have a crystal ball here. Try to move beyond some of this thinking, or you will never address the REAL issues.

Anyway, my question to you is......are you going to be a someone who comes here and just tells us about what's been happening to these elders? Or are you and your husband going to do something that in essence will really benefit all of you?

I watched my sister go round and round when she was taking care of our battle ax aunt, (mother's sister). I was completely frustrated w/my sister after I heard about all the endless escalation of events w/our aunt's behavior's. My suggestions to her fell on deaf ears, because she got too caught up in fighting w/the woman.
There is light at the end at the tunnel, but one has to be willing to be open to find it.

I encourage you to have the strength to put your situation in it's proper perspective.

Hugs,
Much Love & Light! Margeaux
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Book,

Book, you didn't overstep any kind of boundaries. It must be very difficult for you given the fact that just from what I realize from your many posts, there's so much gender bias in your culture. In mine also, believe me. Women are so relied upon to do the work, yet they are subject to tons of criticism. When there's physical abuse to go with it, what a pair that makes. Anyway, this makes for lots of archaic psychological control all the way around. Your sister, as Veronica stated is numb.
When anyone has been a victim of this kind of abuse.......in some way it no longer affects them, as in a reaction.

Your brother's gf, oh my!!! You can be sure she's been abused by your nephew.
If she's as you've described "silently struggling," this is certainly not a reaction of a woman who thinks this is wrong behavior. When an ex, even suggested to me there was going to be physical abuse, I fled the household. This is a statement of fact, too! To this end.....have there been any feminist movements, or awareness about physical abuse against women in your culture?
Even though, it's something you endured as a kid, it's wrong and you as an adult woman realizes it. The only thing for you to do is to call the police.

About the spirits and the dark......we also in our culture have some spirit stories.
It's up to anyone about how much credence you want to give to any of that. Try your best to break free of this kind of thinking, Book, because it is a form of control in the way you would act without hesitation, for the good of someone, especially yourself from being enslaved by this kind of thinking.

"Feel the fear, and do it anyway."

Much Love & Light! Margeaux
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Christine-
I agree with Veronica! He is going downhill fast there, may be even faster in a facility. But stop and ask yourself, would he want to be causing the distress in the family that he is? I doubt it. Not many would want to cause this amount of disruption. If it were me, I would rather be dead. My Mom has told me she would rather die than live the way she is. She does not have a clue about most of her history. She does not get violent, but we are going that way. I am beginning to wonder if she has some vascular dementia as well.
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Book, did you call the cops? What would happen to YOU, if you did not report what was going on and some serious injury were to happen to anyone there?
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Just to let you know, that there was a TV reality show that goes around the world Debunking superstitious believes that the locals have. I'm not talking about the reality show who goes around checking out haunted places. I'm talking about Superstitious Beliefs. If you live in Ireland, you have that local belief about ??? Or if you live in Japan, your local are believes in the ????

This reality came to our island. I'll have you know, that they have it on footage of the shadows moving, of heat thermal pushing a crew who pissed off the spirit. We passed their test.

When I say that the night spirits don't like me, I mean the night spirits don't like me. And when you 'trespass' on a spirit that doesn't like you, they CAN hurt you. We have soooo many foreigner or non-locals who used to scoff at us. Until they did something to upset the spirit. Then they became sick, and the white doctors couldn't heal them. After resistance from the locals, they go back to where they offended the spirit and apologize. And then miraculously got better.

My anger against my nephew's manhandling his gf over-ruled my damn fear of these spirits. I YELLED out loud at night. A big No-no since that will upset 'them.' I ran into their territory - because I felt 'unease' being there. I reached the limit where I wanted to cross before they hurt me or follow me home. One could say that my family has the '6th sense'. Others would just say we're superstitious. sigh... I'm sorry. I keep forgetting the culture differences here.
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Book~What you did was very brave and you acted on instinct of what is right. No need for concern from us. My father grew up in Northern Ireland and my granny was a strong believer in Banshee's. My dad they would get up in the morning and his mother (granny) would tell everyone, "I heard the Banshee last night." Dad said sure enough...someone in their village past away during the night. Many people here in the US have different beliefs regarding spirits and the paranormal. I know some people who are strong believers in it.

Well, sis is in the hospital again...dehydration, I guess. Her lab work from yesterday came back with everything low including anemia. She is currently getting an "infusion" of fluid IV's to bring up potassium, sodium etc. I have not gone to see her, but did let her daughter's know. She drove herself to the hospital so I or my brother won't need to pick her up. Nothing overly serious...it has been hot and humid here, I even had to start drinking Gatorade because I felt a little weak and light headed the other day and that was still after I drank 2 2liter bottles of water...I guess it flooded my system flushing out potassium and sodium. I am not taking any chances with this humdityy (which I can't handle well)..a dry heat is much easier to tolerate.

Happy 4th of July and Happy Canada Day...I have to work tomorrow but I am off Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday...Yay!!! more decluttering.
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Thanks for the tough love and my apologies for whining. I am doing my best, given what I have to work with.
Thanks for listening
Christine
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Christine~When you are ready to decisions you will make them...come back here anytime!!
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Book now I understand why the woman who is living in our old house is so afraid of the dark. She is a native girl from your island married to a much older American man who worked there for many years. i thought it was because it is dark at the back of the house and sits back off a busy road but now I think she is afraid there are spirits out there. Mostly just the deer and ocassionally the odd bear. oh and Fred next door but he's harmless.
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Cam - not whining. You were sharing what's happening in the home front. By doing so, you also got feed back from us. Different feedbacks. You take what works for you right now. It also gives you an idea of what you may have to do if FIL continues to deteriorate. Not whining at all.
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But Book, have you considered that the spirits might well agree with you that what your brother was doing was plain wrong? They can see that too, can't they?

Christine, your in-laws' situation, still so new to you and your husband, is changing so rapidly that you surely must call on professional help - otherwise what chance have you got? We've all admired how hard and intelligently you've worked to welcome them into your home, but at this point what he needs that additional, professional expertise. And no one should feel bad about that, any more than if you suspected he had pneumonia or a bad tooth - why would you try to deal with it all in-house?
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It's been very quite here..I guess a good thing. Hope everyone is ok during this holiday weekend. I wish I could add sound to this post so you can all hear my neighbors setting of the fireworks.


Turns out my sis was not dehydrated but dangerously low on potassium that when she arrived at ER,. they were waiting for her with orders of STAT on her condition. A nurse was suppose to call me as her emergency contact to let me know they were admitting her overnight...never happened. So this morning I was texting her daughter to see if she knew whether her mother was sent home yesterday, but she knew nothing. I finally called the hospital at 2:30 during my break at work...they said she was being discharged right then. Sis has to get bloodwork done on Sunday and a follow up appt. on Monday. Her eldest daughter and I are both on her about moving to Kentucky...sis will have both daughters plus her grandchildren who drive to help her...not just me.

Sis said, how can you just leave California after a life time here, I said...I have a lot of good memories..but they are in the past, not longer a part of my present or my future...Yes, I will miss the Sierra Nevada's...nothing compares to the diversity of the beauty of the Sierra Nevadas...but..I want to be near my daughter and grandchildren...not to take over her life as I know she has a life in Idaho and friends, but there is little holding me here in California plus my retirement will go much further there than it will here. She said, it is too soon and I am not ready. I said, you tend to wait too long...don't make that mistake with your health.
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Sharyn, wow sis may be moving to Kentucky? you to Idaho? Nothing about the babies and your daughter. I guess we can assume that all is fine and babies are staying put for a bit longer?
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Glad-i would like to move to Idaho but not until after my mom is gone. It may or may not happen as hubby does not accept change. Sis should move to Kentucky but most likely wont. She has several reasons all of which come down to not wanting change.
My daughter is home on modified bed rest. She has dr appt 2x's a :week to monitor her bp and bloodwork w/ ultra sound once a week. So far she is staying stable.
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Sharyn, keep those babies cooking!
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Sharynmarie,

I'm happy to hear that they've released your daughter, and that she is being monitored. I once had a friend who had the same condition. She was 37 having a baby, w/very high blood pressure. They had her take a leave from her job at the end of her pregnancy, and was ordered to lie on her side.
How fun the baby shopping, but as long as she doesn't over do this kind of activity.

Sorry to hear that your sister had to return to the hospital. She sounds as if she really doesn't know much about her health conditions. This can be dangerous and then, if she was diagnosed with anemia.

It has been very hot. I drove that long distance to mom's. I had the AC on,
but I've an old car, so it's not the greatest. I got stuck in traffic for over 2 hrs., the day before the 4th. When I arrived at mother's I felt somewhat dehydrated.
I'd been drinking water, but probably with the heat, I needed more.
We do really have to watch it in this heat.

Much Love & Light! Margeaux
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I too am dealing with 3 narcissists- mom, my sis and her daughter (my niece).
I didn t know what I was dealing with until I read it in the DSMIV online..they are very very nasty to me and I am starting abuse counseling to learn how to deal with it... (them) The funny thing is it doesn t even seem to bother them at all the way they treat me...like I am nobody and nothing!!! I do speak my mind when necessary, however, it does no good as its too late for them to change-mom sis and niece also are borderline personalities always wanting to stir things up with me in the middle...my famous words are I dont argue then walk away...sis lives in another state...I dont really bother with her but she tells mom things about me when they talk on the phone which has made mom not trust me and is against me at every turn..birds of a feather flock together...Hope this helps someone else..hope they aren t going through as much as I am...it is starting to affect my health, hence the reason for counseling...Best- sandiw50
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Well I went to mother's on the 3rd to stay w/her on the 4th, the entire day.
The reason I went the day before was because my sister asked if I could be there from 8-5:00. I didn't want to risk getting up late, then we just can't predict traffic.

So the night I arrived, my sister went to her boyfriend's to spend the night.
She told me that a rug shampooer was coming early the next morning, and that she'd swing by early in the a.m., since she had to pay him. He was to shampoo a portion of the rug, they had a plumbing leak in an upstairs bedroom.
Well, she didn't show me the area to be shampooed, and the guy doing the job arrived very early, 8:30 a.m. Now I had to call my sister on her cell phone, to ask the "where questions" and tell the shampooer. So there we started the cavalcade of my sister's webbing me into her house stuff. She arrived a little later to pay this guy. Mom slept through the whole thing, I couldn't believe it!

The rug situation was all taken care of by 10:00 a.m.
So now my sister started to do laundry. Now the original plan according to her was that I show there at 8:00 a.m., so I started to wonder what kind of plans she had for the day? I knew she was going to her daughter's house to be there w/her grandkids for the 4th.

She became involved doing several house chores. Watching her, just wears me out to no end. I asked her what I should feed mother that day. She has a new refridgerator, so things were changed up in the kitchen. I couldn't find things.
She told me that before she left.....she was going to fix some things for mom to eat. This irked me. Now she was making cream of wheat. Then she opened up a can of tuna, and left that prepared. What!!!! I can't fix mom something to eat???
She's such the micro manager. By now it was almost 12:00 noon. I thought,
why in China am I here? I'm not referring to taking care of mom part. But, I am talking about doing it, w/o my sister's interference, nor presence.
She's a neurotic, and I just don't like her energy. It's as if she's always trying to prove something, and look like a martyr. "Please don't do cheap theater for me."

I thought she was leaving after the food thing......but now she tells me she's going to shower. Oh boy!! Mom was still sleeping. So, I told her that I was making a quick run to the store to buy some things. Do you know that I no sooner made this comment, and my sister grabbed her purse, and said she'd just shower at her daughter's house? She was out of there in all of 4 mins., if that.
Why didn't I say that sooner, I thought! Interesting how at the mere thought of I becoming unavailable, she finally left.

Mom finally woke up, and I fed her the cream of wheat.
She was having a very sleepy day. Needless to say, I was glad to see mother.
This trip there left me exhausted. All I can say is that my sister can be such an energy sucker!

"There's no place like home."

Much Love & Light! Margeaux
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One of the things that my sister talked about was the fact that one of the previous caregivers who was there while the battle ax was alive is now working again 3-4 days a week for mom. So, I wondered about another younger girl they've had there caring for mom the last year. I asked my sister if she was still there. She said, "No, she's taking a couple of mos. off, because she wants to spend time with her little girl, who is 7 yrs. old."

This CG is very nice. She lives in another county and takes 3 buses to get to mom's. I had a conversation with her about the travel by bus. She told me that she does have a car, but w/gas prices she can't afford to spend so much on gas, I know what she means.

So when my sister was talking about her absence, I could tell that my sister had this tone in her voice as if this girl's wish to spend time w/the daughter isn't important. She also brought up the fact that she takes 3 buses, and added that she drives, (as in how crazy is she for taking the buses). I reminded her, that it's expensive for many people to gas up their vehicles at current prices.
Of course, my sister had to chime in with, I'm sure fares for the bus isn't cheap either. This CG is a single parent. I replied that not everyone is in the same financial circumstance, and for some people it may be the difference between being able to eat, and pay rent. My sister doesn't pay rent at mom's, so all the money she earns is either going into her bank account, or being spent. She really has such a demeaning way of looking at people who have less, and isn't shy about showing it. I don't think she enjoyed the fact that I stuck up for the caregiver, either.
She has a very superior attitude! I think this attitude comes from our mom,
because dad didn't think this way.

Much Love & Light! Margeaux
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Margeaux, strange indeed! Maybe she would have stayed all day if you hadn't said something! Had to make the cream of wheat?! I suppose she is one of those that just is not satisfied unless things are done HER way!
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Glad,
Yes, you are right! Going over there to do relief for her, always involves she in the beginning and end being at the helm of everything. Then she wonders why I am not forthcoming when it comes to being more available. She's tooooo much to deal with. She's higher maintenance than mother is.

Yes, definitely, I was wondering why she had this need to hang around all day, especially when I can't always do this for her. She doesn't value other people's time, nor input.

Much Love & Light! Margeaux
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Argh!! Too many people in our lives that are just "no pleasing" but somehow it's become our role to keep trying to please. I'm so fed up. It's like there's no sincere, wholehearted, honest interaction -- it's all just being told one way or another what the latest demand is, by a person (or people) who are impossible to please.
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Sandwi50 They really ave no idea what they are doing. My mom is a narcissist and feels like she is entitled to 100 percent attention. You can only care about 1 other person in her mind so if I am for my grandson we are raising then I must not love her anymore, even if she is snoozing in her chair at the time. They mistake themselves for the sun, I liken them to the blackhole at the center of the universe...everything goes in but nothing comes out. They take all the love and care and it is never enough. Hang in there, therapy sounds like a good idea. I had no idea about mom for my 60 years, just realized it after getting on these boards. Make a life for yourself. Being a moon is no fun.
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Being the moon is no fun - Amen to that! the only thing you can do with a narcissist/borderline/cluster B person is get the heck away. Since they are usually close family (they don't have friends), it's so hard to do, but man...once you start to feel normal, you don't want to let that go for anything. It takes a lot of work to find normal, since it's a new experience, but it is so worth it.

My mom would "show her tail" any time there was another event or person who took the spotlight off her. No hissyfit is to big to pitch. No scene too dramatic, and the more public the better. If there can be police and ambulances involved, bonus points! These people invented "drama llama".

I just got off the phone with the care center. It's been at least two weeks I think, since the last momma-emergency. Momergencies. She's raising h_ll. Kicking the elevator, hollering, swearing, combative. Saying we are holding her hostage up here, and all she came up here for was pneumonia (um....hardly!!) I suggested they call the doctor and ask for a sedative since she's being physically aggressive. Give her some horse tranquilizers if necessary.
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I remember my mom being the same way Sandwich. Before the Alz took over, she, one way or another made herself the center of her grandchildren's weddings, graduations, and then complained about how much money the parents were spending on the wedding or the reception for the graduation...on and on...it was too hot so we would have to leave early...but oh NO, could she have just thought to stay home because of the heat so everyone else could go and have a good time...H#!! NO!! I hate Alz and don't wish it on anyone or their family, but the Alz has been a peace keeper within our family...sad to say.

Keep hanging on, take a dip in a cool pool.
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Margeaux~Wow, your sister keeps on keeping on doesn't she. She asks you to come over to relieve her, but won't let go of the control...I would have left to the store anyway saying I needed something important. Your sister's attitude about the caregiver taking some time for her 7 year old daughter, sounds like my mother in law.

I hope my daughter does take it easy, she is on disability from here on out. I think the baby shopping trip was a way for her and her hubby to release some anxiety over the hospital stay and sil losing his grandfather.

I think my sister self diagnosis many times which is why I get conflicting information from her. The potassium issue could have been a result of her dr misdiagnosing her with CHF some months back. They put her on a diuretic with potassium supplement and other meds, but after a heart ultra sound and breathing test, they ruled it out. Possibly the diuretics, even with the potassium supplement, caused this...IDK for sure. I honestly don't know all her health situation any more because she recants diagnoses all the time.

Take care and many hugs and good thoughts for you!
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I yslkec with my sis earlier today. She hes resorted to.turning to a friend of one daughter in her city. I am feeling torn because this woman she is turning to has has many issues...she lost a daughter to neiman picks ..a rare genetic disease. The man Dur was married to was not the father. He had gone through to be sn attorney. Lbut after several. Attempts failed the bar examines. Sorry for typos but using kindle and in a hurry. Her husband lost iit. They separated but he abducted her with intentions of bodily harm. She toy away and he was jarrested
She is now remarriex rather quickly after all this...my point is sis has no right to impose on this woman...(she is a high school principal) a Christian.. ut has her own life and issues. Just another tactic to not accept her own relality and impose on others.
She is scrambling.
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