The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

Someone asked about Thanksgiving. I wanted to jump in, but then reverted to my usual hiding on the sidelines. I am forcing myself to “come out” with you lovely people. I am going to visit my 93-year-old Dad for Thanksgiving, which itself is easy as he was the passive, enabling, hard-working type in support of Mom’s queenly extreme maliciousness. There are issues with Dad, but he is declining so much, he’s kind of sweet. Instead of being depressed and bitter, he laughs a lot, and it makes me feel good. I can only figure he feels so free since Mom died, that he’s having the euphoric time of his life. So it isn’t difficult for me to visit him. I wanted to visit on Thanksgiving because my sister, who works three jobs, will be there and I miss her so much. We were trench sisters growing up, protecting each other from Mom.

However, my sister just informed me that her two adult sons will be there as well. These two baby-men are both depressed, suicidal, hostile and fight constantly with each other and their mother. Sis-the-Mother caves into their abuse because she so desperately wants the perfect holiday and their love (she hasn’t seen them together in five years). She refuses to see that it’s not likely to happen, nor to set boundaries. I love her, but see so clearly she sets herself up for being smashed viciously by these bullies. You see, sis and I grew up with a brother who regularly shot up the house with his guns, carried out a lot of threats, and caused many uproars resulting in police visits. We know well the joy of visiting a murderous, alcoholic family member who was committed to an institution, underwent extreme electroconvulsive therapy, and ultimately committed dramatic suicide I had to clean up. A few examples of my mother’s lack of love and nurturance was her sniping at my brother (in the psychiatric unit) – “see you in your grave.” Regularly, when upset with me, she’d say, “See who comes to your funeral.” When my sister was hog-tied and brutally raped (babysitting a few doors away) – at 16, I had to take my hysterical sis (who managed to loosen the rope and run home screaming) to the hospital -- Mom was “busy” and blank-faced. So my sister is dear soul that is trapped in real nightmares and abuse cycles. Good hearted, but helpless, and has been in therapy for 25 years (we both make that profession happy). She’s a competent full-time teacher, and how she pulls herself together is remarkable, but I know she is so frail emotionally.

I have questioned my sister about enabling her sons coming together; did she really think it could be different this time? She admits it probably won’t be different, but that she can’t let go of her hope and trying. She is insane about wanting a son-filled holiday. I know I don’t have to be there, but I am sucked into wanting to see my sister. I am dreading the scene when the young men start up at Thanksgiving. If my father weren’t chair-bound, I could take him and sis out of the house and have a separate time with them, but he’s so incontinent and frail, it’s not going to happen. I don’t want to leave him. Yet I know uproar is going to happen and Dad will hang his head and say, “Just like [your dead brother].

I imagine telling nephews (age 30 and 28) to take it outside and never come back, to try to set a boundary that way (I already kicked one of them out once). Experience has taught me that yelling at them or threatening to call the police doesn’t work (I personally WILL call the police but my sister would have a breakdown). Neither baby-man has ever threatened with a gun or knife or bomb, unlike my brother. They wind up crying when yelled at by their Grandpa. One is a highly-sensitive gigantic semi-pro tattooed body builder, the other a tall and muscular Asperger’s type who gets rages. Both refuse therapeutic help. Both blame their Mom for their broken family (20 years ago). One option is that I would leave if it gets ugly, and leave it to my sister to handle it all and comfort my Dad after the feathers settle. It’s all manipulative of course. But if you were sucker enough to be sucked into this because of “survival bonding” and maternal love and for a younger sister, what would you advise … when the turkey flies?

P.S. My husband stays at our home. With heart surgery pending, I figure I may not see sis or Dad for a long time. My own heart is bleeding. My husband understands the pathologies completely, and knows I’m strong enough to protect myself if it gets really nasty.

50'sChild,

This circumstance within your family, I have to say.......if I tell you it was hard, or anything like that would be some kind of understatement. When there is someone such as your mom, who as you've described who lacked love and nurturance, but on top of it, it sounds as if she had a very cruel streak, also given some of the remarks she made to you and your siblings.

Oh! and your dad, bless his soul. My dad was an enabler also in the family to mother. They many times are the kinder ones in the picture, unless there's some other thing happening. I'm glad to hear he is that for you.

I can't tell you how I feel for both you and your sister for the rape. Surely, this then witnessing violence within a family I think always plays itself out, and will influence people in different ways, as to how they are going to deal with this

I had an aunt, dad's sister. My dad's family was for the most part rather on the traditional side, from the old country but had made a life for themselves in the US. All my uncles were very hard workers, and their two sisters married and were housewives. Well this aunt, the eldest had 3 kids. One who was a son.....was the delinquent in the family. I remember being a kid, and he was at least 15 yrs., my senior, and I hardly ever remember anyone talking about him. He was never at family gatherings. As I got older, anytime heard about him, it always involved some trouble. Then, I started to hear jail, and hard drugs. This guy of course became violent against his parents, brother and other sister. They had to call the police on him. So anyway, I really feel for you.

As you've said....that you feel your sister is frail emotionally. After what she survived, poor woman one can understand where her lack of setting boundaries with her sons comes from.

This is the kind of situation I've found myself in, terms of going to be with mother on a holiday.There's a whole situation where my sister has made mom's home, her daughter's home too.
One of them has 3 kids now and a husband. Anyway, my point is if one elects to go to mom's, also because mom has limited mobility, and taking her out is a huge project. More recently, as you know, I've had enough of having to put up w/other family, just to accomplish the holiday event w/mom. Sometimes, I'm just not willing to do it anymore. In your case......if you say you want to and your dad is nice, etc.,
just limit your time there. If things start to get unbearable with the nephews, just go and give your dad and sister a big hug and tell them you need to get back to your husband. I know it's a hard time for you also at home, given the developments with your husband's health. I say this, knowing full well that it does sound as if you want to be there for your dad and sister. But I guess this will ultimately come down to how much of the dysfunction coming from your nephews you are willing to tolerate. Try to keep that kind of energy at bay, because I'm sure your energy is on reserve at the moment.

Hugs,
I admire you!
Much Love & Light! Margeaux

50s Child, I was trying to think of some way to defuse the tension between the two sons if it starts to grow. Often an offhand remark, like "You guys are going to put me in an early grave with your fussing" can work. It is not blaming one or the other, just pointing out that they are ruining it for the people around. It would be nice if they could set aside their conflict for a day if only for the sake of everyone else.

About your mother -- It is hard growing up with a mother who doesn't have your back. You quickly learn you can't depend on her for anything except maybe food. Her response to your sister's rape doesn't surprise me. Some women of the time would have just shushed her and told her not to tell anyone -- like it was your sister's fault and your sister's shame. I am glad you were there for your sister. It sounds like no one else was.

Sometimes I think we should all get together and write a book with tales of the world's worst mothers. I bet it would sell a million copies, because there are a lot of people out there dealing with the pain of a mommy d*mnedest. They do a lot of damage that we often don't recognize until most of our years are behind us. Big hugs coming your way from someone who understands.

50s child I don't have anything to add to the advice that you have already recieved. The best I can do is say by all means visit your Dad and stay as long as it remains bearable. Each holiday as we all know may be the last. the nephews of course are going to play up. that is the way they get attention. have no hesitation in calling the police if it gets ugly. Don't threaten just quietly go outside and use your cell. Remain in the car till help arrives then say good bye to your Dad and leave. Have you talked to your therapist about ways to handle this? there probably won't be much trouble till after the bullies are fed.
I do wonder what kind of a childhood your mother had. Did she ever talk about her experiences?
I also had a patchy child hood mostly growing up in the 40s and early 50s.
I do know how my mother grew up totally neglected through no fault of grandma's.
Grandma bore 8 children the last 2 boys died in infancy. She was widowed when Mum was 9 and had to do domestic work to keep food on the table.. She later married a crippled widow who also had a whole slew of children. So after the age of 9 Mum ran wild. I know she skipped her chores and never helped her older sister make dinner etc. At the age of 13 Mum was placed with a family as a maid and was suposed to continue to go to school but that only lasted a few weeks. I don't know how much work she did for the family but had a big crush on the son. She met and married my dad at 22 and I was not born till 6 years later and am an only child. Dad left when I was 10 and it would have probably been sooner had he not been away fighting in WW11. I know absolutely nothing about my Grandma's early life and how she was treated.
I am not looking for sympathy or advice here just really thinking out loud but my point is we just don't know what precipitated the damaging behaviours some of our parents exhibited and are exhibiting towards us today. My mother was born in 1908 one year before Queen Victoria died private lives were just that private. There is never an excuse for bad behaviour but it does help to understand what drives it.

It's over, Dad passed away Friday. Had a couple falls and a week in the hospital about a month ago. He was sent to rehab and never really came back. I was able to get back and see him in the rehab facility two weeks ago. He was not my dad but I knew I was glad to have made that trip. Didn't think it would happen so fast. He was exercising the only thing he could up until the end by not taking food. Dad was really not able to verbally communicate clearly and could barely move, but he could keep his lips pursed tight. That was his last stand! I'm glad that he could muster the strength and will to do that. I know he didn't want to live that way. What a brave man he was.

Now, as the 5 kids and families prepare to gather this week to say goodbye there is one brother that is already stirring up emotions. He has made it clear that he wants to come down to dad's place with the intent to box up the house and start prepping to get the property sold. It's almost like the funeral and services are just part of the trip for him. His main concern seems to be getting the house cleaned up for sale.

This is not the house we all grew up in. After mom passed away back in '95, dad moved into this townhome. It's been his home for 18 years, but there are no emotional ties as far as the children are concerned. We also sort of distributed some items a few years ago to the 5 of us. There isn't much left that any one of us really has our heart set on, or at least nothing to fight over.

I'm just concerned that we are all getting together to grieve not pack up the house. I understand that it has to be done, but I don't feel like doing this before dad is laid to rest. I'm planning on taking my kids around where dad and the rest of us grew up and share family stories and history. The house can wait as far as I'm concerned.

Please tell me I am right and my brother is the one who needs a kick in the pants!

Sharyn you can order Savory from "My Spice Sage" They carry pretty much anything you can think of. Today is their last day for free shipping so jump to it.

JessieBelle, I could write a fat chapter in that hypothetical book about such mothers. My issues came to the surface in my early 30's. I started drinking heavily, doing coke and ruined my marriage because of it. I am now 57 and struggle with depression, low esteem and wish I could just die.

TimetoAct, I am sorry for the passing of your father. You've been through a lot and the shifting of sands has already started, thanks to your brother. Other siblings might agree with you, that brother's super pragmatic attitude toward the home seems disrespectful at this time. If it's a townhouse, it could be a condo and there could be steep monthly fees? Regardless, unless your brother was solely appointed executor, he's leaping in a little fast and insensitive to those who have raw, loving grief. You described quite a good soul in your father. I am so sorry you lost him, and slowly at that, but finality is never with us til it happens. You were a good daughter and he knew it. Your brother may be displacing his grief feelings on the single thing he may feel he can control. Perhaps he needs a mature "let's deal with that after the funeral." Love to you.

Timetoact~ I am so sorry for the loss of you father. There is never an easier time, however, I think (after losing my dad 2 days after Christmas), the holidays can be more painful as you will always think about it near and on the anniversary. What I can offer, my happy memories of the holidays during my childhood always surface, what I do have pain about is that if my mother had not sabotaged my relationship with my father, I would have many more good memories about him throughout the year. Much love and big ((((hugs)))) for you!!

Veronica~Thank you for the tip on the My Spice Sage. You are right, they have every herb not just for cooking, but all types of ailments and maladies. I ordered a few of my favorites including Lavender extract!!! I am still going to check out the restaurant I mentioned. I did dry out the Savory I bought yesterday, $2.29 a package for fresh, I did not get much...enough for Thanksgiving, but I like to use it when I cook different chicken dishes as well as veggies and legumes.

It is 43 degrees now...not too cold for most of you...but I am freezing my toes off. This only means one thing, LOL!! My hormones must be stabilized, Haha!!

Went to see my mother yesterday. There is a new CNA at the NH. He gives me the creeps. I saw him and took an instant dislike to him. He is loud and aggressive and uncultured. He is a larger man. His demeanor was sloppy and his clothes were sloppy and not neat. Because of my background I can spot a dysfunctional person right away. I sure hope he doesn't hit my mother but if he does I would not be surprised.
It makes me really scared for her. I am so far away and can't get there very often. Mom is so small and defenseless.. But what can I do. I can't call the NH and say that I have a bad feeling about him. POA sister will not take my phone calls. POA sister has instructed me not to come to her house. POA also said that when I see her in public that I am not to approach her. She doesn't want to be seen with me. When I email her she only wants to her the good news, nothing negative. I am supposed to say only things like "everything is fine." So I can't contact the NH over just a feeling. I can't go there very much. I don't know anyone in that town willing to go see Mom and check on her. POA only goes there once a month. So what does the forum think I should do. The man is just creepy and I have a bad feeling about him. Please and thank you for the advice.

Follow your gut. He won't be there very long the other CNAs will drive him out. Most CNAs are female and they probably share your bad feelings. Try and vist Mom more frequently for the time being.

Brandy, I am trying to put myself in your place and wondering what I would do. I know what you mean about bringing something up based only on gut feelings but we have instincts for a reason, right? I don't know...does anyone here think it would be ok if Brandy went to the higher-ups about this and in a calm, tactful manner state her concerns anyway? And/or how about "googling" his name to see if something can be learned about him? I am not good on advice but I just cannot think of anything else. Others here are much better with advice & suggestions than I am. I can only imagine how you feel. My first son was born 2 months early. 35 years ago & was in critical condition. There was a nurse who I mistrusted instinctively so I used to pop in at odd times to visit my sick baby. I caught her doing something she should not have. Let me tell you. There was h*ll to pay. I went OFF on her.

It would make sense to be sure you are right about the man - maybe he is less educated but has a heart of gold - so watching to see what he does when no one is watching might be the best bet, as butterfly suggests. First impressions always last, but they are not always right. And, it might save you an unneccessary confrontation with sister who has POA to be more sure about this.

Brandy~I have to agree with Veronica and vstefans. I know you and your sis are not on speaking terms and if I remember right, she has informed the NH not to give you info on your mother??? Is that right? If so, talking with them would most likely result in more bad blood between you and sis because they would probably tell her.

I do believe that if a care facility has any common sense, they would not have a male attend to a female patient where the elderly are concerned. You could put up hidden cameras in her room and review them after you come visit again.Of course this costs money unless you can hire someone to do it for you...then you may need your sister permission.

I think Veronica said it well, if this man is a bad seed, the other caregivers/aids with make noise about it.

Brandy I think I would say something to the Director of the NH-you feel uncomfortable for a reason -the fact is elders do get abused-locally here a lady fet uncomfortable about a CNA and put a camera up in her mother's room and an aide hit the women so hard she fell out of the w/c and it was caught on tape. I am sure others feel uncomfortable around him also-this way they can watch him before something bad happens-a phone call would be good.

sharynmarie, that is correct, the NH people are instructed not to tell me anything about Mom. A camera would be out of the question. POA would go ballistic.

Timetoact,

I am so sorry for the passing of your father. He sounds like he was a wonderful man.
May his spirit soar very high.

What you brother wants to do, is terrible. How is your relationship with your other siblings? Maybe between several of you, it could be pointed out to him that
this is inappropriate at this time.

I definitely know what this feels like. When my father passed away, just after a month......mother (who was always insensitive), had our golden boy brother, also the insensitive type, haul away several loads of things that belonged to my dad to the dump. I couldn't believe this I thought a months time, was just too soon.
Even though in my mother's eyes, she always thought dad's things were junk, I thought it would have been a nicer gesture to the kind of man my dad was, who was generous and never forgot where he came from.....would have been to donate these items to the less fortunate. But oh no! Mother who grew up in the Depression era, then made pretty well in terms of her money, thought of herself as some kind of rich person. I was in the throes of grief, and I did protest to mother at some point. Really do not think it made a difference, but at least I spoke up, and that felt good! Anyway, I completely feel for you. You have every right to point this out to him, even if you do it by yourself.

Hugs,
Much Love & Light! Margeaux

Brandy,

Listen.......I realize that it's very difficult for your to make the trips to see your mother.
But if you are sensing something out of sorts regarding this male nurse, and it worries you, what do you have to lose by calling that nursing home and talking to the director, or head nurse. This could be followed up by either an email or a letter.
At the very least......they would be on alert, there would also be some kind of documentation about him. Sometimes we do have to take our courage into our hands, and just do it. I do understand about the relationship about you and your sister, but please......if it's for your mother's well being try to stop being so intimidated by your sister. As we can see from current news, sometimes silence isn't golden.

Courage!!
Hugs,
Much Love & Light! Margeaux

Sharynmarie,

So, I'm happy you found the Savory. Thanks for the spices/herb post.
I also will make a butternut squash, (if I find a few at the store) they were kind of low a few days ago. I'm going to make some kind of casserole to take to a big potluck we attend. That should be fun.

O.K., it's been getting colder down here at night and in the morning.
It may be time to get those extra socks, leg warmers or whatever we resort to for colder weather.

Hugs,
Much Love & Light! Margeaux

How are all of you doing with your turkeys?
If you buy a frozen one, they take a long time to defrost, don''t they.
A few years ago, there was a news report about several postal employees who had turkeys defrosting in the trunks of their cars. I couldn't believe that. Of course the news report was about safely defrosting your turkey. I had a good laugh about it.

Happy Thanksgiving!
Much Love & Light! Margeaux

I am thankful for this thread and all the wonderful people I've made friends with
exchanging our stories and ideas. I am thankful for my family, even if I gripe about them, and my husband. I am thankful for the world, nature, and the cosmos.

Much Love & Light! Margeaux

That was part of my giving thanks, for Thanksgiving.

Much Love & Light! Margeaux

I took my turkey out of the freezer Monday night and left it on the counter overnight. I put it in the fridge Tuesday morning. It should be thawed for Friday.

It takes about 3-4 days to defrost in the fridge-you can run cold water over it the days you are cooking it to defrost the last bit-I heard you should turn it upside down for the first hour when cooking to make it come out juicer and also heard to put it in a cold oven then turn it on to make it moister -I always tent it with heavy duty foil and this year-another hint sprinkle salt pepper and garlic on before cooking.

In spite of all the family crap, I am thankful too!! Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!!!

Happy Thanksgiving to all in the US.

I find things to be thankful for everyday and especially on special days.

Today I am thankful for the staff at the hospital for dealing with mother and being a go between,. She had a fit when she got back the things she gave me to be altered - not because they weren't done right, though that will probably come too, but because now she thinks she has too much clothing and doesn't want me to send her any more. She didn't remember perhaps, anyway didn't acknowledge, that she had given me them to be altered. The SW called and said there was a temp nurse who I guess didn't know how to handle this very well. Oh dear. The SW was amazed as mother had asked for the alterations and pretty well anything else I have sent or brought her. I said that was par for the course for mother. I don't jump to fill her requests for that reason. Sometimes she changes her mind once you have done it, and gets mad that you have, or whatever - one way or another she gets mad and tells you off for not doing things right. I might as well save my energy. Many of you know that scene. I can laugh at it from here - not so nice when it is in your face, or ear. I am wondering if she really needs a phone where she is going. hmmmm

The SW knows no more the coming move than I do. G was at a meeting out of town till today, so he is free now if they call - another thing to be thankful for. Hopefully he won't have another out of town meeting till after Christmas.

Snow and more snow the next couple of days, Guts acting up a bit probably because I reduced meds - trying to manage with less. I think I will try the other one again and take it at bedtime so I have brain fog while I am sleeping rather than during the daytime. :p

Hope everyone has a good day/turkey when ever you have it. I did ours a couple of weeks after Canadian Thanksgiving due to G's schedule.

I too am thankful for this thread and everyone who posts here whether regularly or just when they can.

I am very thankful for all my friends here on AC-heard from Cmag the other day it reinforced how special all of you are to me-getting over our first real snowstorm of the winter-glad we are not celebrating until tomorrow-my daughter has a distance to drive down here and tomorrow will be better even though the roads will be packed with people going to the malls .

I am so thankful for this site, the friends on it, and all the nice things people have said to me on here. It is a good support group. Happy Thanksgiving.