The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

Dorianne, I think either Alanon or Alzheimer's Society would be a great assist for you. Alzheimer's Society usually have clinical social workers on staff and registered nurses. Perhaps speaking with one of them they would be able to steer you to the best group.

I know what you mean about outsiders and the telling you to be compassionate. It sounds great, but not always possible when you're spending 24/7 in the caregiver role.

I hate my mother. I just had to say that today. Right now, I just hate her.

I just looked up the number for the local Alzheimer's Society. I was planning to call today but s*** happened. (Literally - mom left s*** on the sofa). So I'll try tomorrow morning when she's in her deepest sleep and won't overhear me.

Dorianne, Do call. Has she had this problem previously? My Mom had an obsession with bowel movements. For no real reason she would take laxatives to the point of diarrhea and "accidents". A mess to say the least. Her doctor finally broke thru to her that it wasn't necessary to take all of those laxatives. But Mom did not have dementia.

Upsetsister, I think the problem is my mom refuses to eat properly. Cottage cheese, crackers, and junk. I think it was the cottage cheese. She ate an entire large container yesterday. (750 g...I think that's about 26 or so ounces.)

She complained of diarrhea last night so I gave her some Immodium. But if it's just cottage cheese going straight through her, I don't think Immodium is going to fix that.

I've scrubbed and scrubbed and I can't get it all off these frickin' couch cushions either. :-(

You might want to invest in Little Green Machine, or if you have a wet/dry shop vac handy you can use some carpet and upholstery cleaner in a spay bottle and suck it up with the vac, that worked amazingly well for us.

Edit - I just remembered Freqflyer has mentioned that her father became lactose intolerant when he was older, that might be something to keep in mind.

That's a good idea, cwillie. Thanks! I do have a wet/dry shop vac at my place but I haven't used it for wet yet. (Just got it last Christmas.)

On the plus side, this makes scooping the litter box seem less of a chore!

*leaves thread whistling "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life"*

There are washable pads that are cloth on one side, plastic on the other, they're waterproof, can be bought at medical supply stores or online. You can put those down where your mom is going to sit, Dorianne. If this is a one time only event - and seems like it is or why wouldn't you already have these in place, or why doesn't mom wear Depends - then I suppose you just clean it up. I'm sorry. I had protection pads on top of protection pads where my grandma would sit. And dad only did the explosive stuff once, due to too much laxative.

Upset, your mom's tendency to take laxatives sounds like my dad, but he has problems due to diverticulitis, I think. He was often constipated. I tried to get him switched over from laxatives and stool softeners to fiber supplements, but they bothered him a lot.  Who knows if he even took the right amount.  I just gave up at some point with trying to even him out, let him take what he wanted as long as there wasn't a mess all the time... and there wasn't.  

Oh, such fun stuff we talk about around here. ;-)

We do have cheery conversations don't we? Boys came home from school laughing. I asked what was so funny - they said Mark had won a farting contest at lunch. I guess that's an achievement at 9 years old.

I could soooo win a farting contest, depending how many potatoes I had eaten.

I haven't been putting anything down for mom to sit on. There was a small afghan on the sofa, but of course afghans are full of holes. She has had a few accidents before, but none on the furniture - one (a month ago?) where she got poo on her bedroom carpet from having diarrhea and not making it to the bathroom in time. She's STUBBORNLY resisted wearing Depends. That's one of those discussions where she brings out the "nasty." Always insists Poise pads are just fine. I have been buying them bigger and bigger but there's only so much they can do. Plus I think they're made for pee?

I bought a package of Depends on my way to pick her up from dialysis tonight, and we just had "the talk." I was WAYYYY more gentle than I thought I could be, given how mad I've been lately. SO, she is going to get into her jammies and a Depends when home support comes (any minute now).

Two of the cushions are drying and I wrapped the 3rd in 2 big bedsheets for now. That's where she's sitting. I guess I will be buying some of those pads for sitting on, because I am NOT cleaning that sofa again. (Famous last words.) There WILL be spots. The couch cushions will have to be covered in a sheet or something, until I can get them properly cleaned.

Yes, I'm into the wine.

You guys are awesome. Thanks for being there. :-)

They're here! They're here! Wheeee! Home support just buzzed. My favourite part of the day!

((((((book))))) we were all so concerned for you, but some went overboard. I would not be surprised if, in your group on the island, there were others who were abused too. One can learn from looking back. It is a terrible cycle - the family secrets!!!

upset - each day is a new one and we can take different directions and make different choices. Hah - the statements from outsiders who don't have a clue. Compassion??? Sometimes I could only manage tolerance for short periods of time. 9 year old farting contest - takes me back to the good old days. I have a story or two, but I won't share them today.

sharyn - you tried hard with your sister then, finally had to accept how she is, Yes, narcs find fault.

dorianne - we all need validation for what we are and have been going through. It sure helps to share with others who understand and BTDT. In society there is so much emphasis on and concern for the senior and little for the caregiver. It is like we are invisible. I was just about a blithering idiot suffering from PTSD when mother was at her psychological worst. I mentioned it to her caseworker, who knew mother was difficult. She told me that part of their assessment process was to consider how hard it was on the caregiver. From then on a community psychiatrist set up geripsych hospitalization for mother and things began to get dealt with. Even then the geri psychs had to see a few of mother's episodes before they believed me. Nothing is wrong with you - you are dealing with too much. Whether it was physical, psychological, neglect, verbal - you were abused. I can barely tolerate being in mother's presence for an hour and then I need someone with me. We grow up with a very strange experience of "normal". (sharyn's list a few pages back about adult children of alcoholics). ACoA could help you as well as an Alz group. You did not start caregiving from a norm, you started with some big disadvantages from your childhood. When dementia starts in a person who has other mental health problems, those problems may get worse. Not all people with dementia become narcs. My ex mil was always a cool person. She had Alz for 20 years and never had difficult behaviours - never was narcissistic. My father got vascular dementia, but he was never a narc. Aaaargh to the sofa incident. Well done that you got her into depends tonight!

gershun - good for you! Yes, it is narc behaviour. I don't think you are lying about not being able to see her. It is for your self preservation and that's important. If you had a hair appointment, you would not feel guilty about saying you couldn't meet her then. Well, you have a permanent appointment with your self esteem and self preservation, which are far more important than your hair. So don't do anything that is going to drag you down. I wished I could have a good relationship with my sis too, but have had to accept that it isn't possible.

send -she wanted to be in control and jerk Gershun around.

Gave up on snow angels as the neighbour and boys turned up this evening with a small snow blower. I would rather pay them a few bucks and get it done on time. Snow angels don't have many volunteers, and I am sure there are many more needy than me. It snowed and snowed yesterday, and today, and some more forecast for the next few days then a break. But my driveway is clear for now. Yay!!!

Golden, We watched part of the Grey Cup last evening. I think they were playing in Ottawa and the snow was terrible. We still haven't had much and not much cold. Glad you got your drive cleared.

And here we have barely had snow yet. In fact record breaking high of 78 degrees today. But, they are talking about snow for a bit tomorrow. Weather here is the strangest fall I can remember. It is usually summer to winter here, no fall to speak of.

The D, I can sure identify. Mom was chronic D as long as I can remember. Some accidents as long as I can remember. It was good training for her as she learned young to stomach being able to clean it up. It didn't become my job until caregiving. Just not safe for her to do, usually in the bathroom on tile floors.

Ts2 is working on estate. Mom had fabric and more fabric and more fabric from a home business she had. Jane Fonda was given one of mom's coats a number of years ago. Then mom's business took off like wildfire because of national media coverage. Mom did not know when to stop buying fabric so the basement at her house was just loaded with it.

Well, anyway, ts2 has been paying 500 a month to store the fabrics. I had asked for some two years ago. Well, dysfunction was functioning quite well at that Tim, she never responded. So, asked again a month ago, no response. Emailed her again, copied auntie dearest then ts2 responds "sorry I did not answer question about fabric when I responded". Ha saving face with AD. Good to be nearly done.

Fart contests? UGH. What is it with boys that think it is so funny? Never got it, never will.

Golden you can save those stories for a much later time.😕

Hope all are doing well. Have a presentation at a conference on Wednesday. First time such a large group. 😲 Ming will be spending the night alone for the first time tomorrow. She better be good!

Night all.

Hey guys, sometimes solution oriented people try to help, but are just clumsy (from someone who probably does that); not meaning to be critical or cruel.... lol.

Glad, I don't appreciate the boys "talent" either. PJ was not happy with them when he got home.

I have to admit, I prefer the farting contest than the boys trying to see how many times they make the girls scream by throwing the live frog at them. I remembered that in 6th grade. Or was it 5th grade? My female classmates all huddled together (except me because I was always the nerdy girl that was uncool to hang around with.) The boys would take turns throwing the frog at them, they scream and run off to another corner to huddle together. I was no fun. They took the frog and held it up close to my face. I just looked at the frog, without screaming or any emotion. So, they turned around and went after the screamers.

My brothers came up with much scarier stuff to scare us girls. Try walking and then suddenly a live lizard is dangling right in front of your face suddenly. Or baby sis peeing into a cup and trying to tell her competitor cousin (for mom's affections) that it's Mountain Dew. We have always grown suspicious when one of our siblings offer us something - with no strings attached. The first thing you say is: "You drink it first." or "You eat it first." Or having brothers trained their dogs and roosters to chase after us younger kids. They thought it was hilarious. I'm still terrified of dogs. Period... Farting sounds soooo tame! =)

Lol! We do discuss everything here! I think Buster wins! Glad, my hubby is 63 and he is still obsessed with bodily things. I don’t think boys out grow it. Some become more refined than others. Ha ha!

Book, I love frogs, I would have tried to save poor froggy from being thrown by the boys!

Sharyn you are right boys never do grow up especially when it comes to bodily image. That is fine many could do witha good grooming. The problem comes when they act out their younger desires!!!!!!!!!

I don't mind frogs either but a pair of my cousins once chased wee with a dead rat. My daughter says the pet rats are very friendly She inherited a pair from a friend who wsallergic and keeps them in he office. My grandson said if she brought them home he was leaving.
One nurses home I lived in had a shared wall with the lab in the medical school where they kept the rats. You could hear them through the wall.

Boys will be boys!!! I will spare you all my stories.

glad - did you ever get any fabric? What a shame to have it sit there. Good luck with your presentation and hope Ming behaves~

mally - solution oriented - good phrase

upset -PJ is a good parent. How did the dysfun fam group go?

book - I would have done the same - stood my ground.

sharyn - another frog lover I love them too and would have wanted to save it!

veronica - not so keen on rats, alive or dead. One prof I had kept a large white lab rat as a pet. It was friendly, but didn't appeal to me at all.

Saw the eye gal today who did a very thorough job of checking my vision, and found that my prescription re the astigmatism has changed for the better - it is weaker. The other optometrist did a very cursory check of the astigmatism and didn't find any change. I know who am going to next time! So another new lens (for free) has been ordered and I will have to manage after the next surgery the best I can for a week or so. Distance will be OK, but reading will be a challenge for a while.

Mother is now eligible for a disability tax credit. I guess she is disabled!!!This is new this year apparently. More paperwork... sigh. Slowly getting the pile down and then along comes another thing. I guess that is life and why we take holidays away from home. What you don't see doesn't bother you!

Trying - haven't heard from you for a while. Hope all is as well as possible.

Everyone - have a good evening and take care of you!!!

My hubs went to the MC today with his dad and BIL for the semi annual meeting. They began by saying MIL has diabetes.. uhhh NOPE! Then she said she was level 4,, uh,,, NOPE.. then family asked if they had the right chart... It was apparently interesting from then on,,, Wish I had been off work to go along..LOL

Golden, PJ said the group was okay for a first session. One of his goals is to show participants that always being confrontational and trying to control the situation is not in going to work. He said very few people believed him and those who did, did so with some skepticism. He said he had no one who understood that sometimes the only option is to step away from a dysfunctional situation or a narcissist. But he thinks most people will come back. I've found in some of my groups that a few of the caregivers are just as dysfunctional as some of their family members. They love their families, but they are just as entrenched in their thinking they are right, as their family members are in the positions they take.

I have a sad true story about my 2 dysfunctional brother's that are in their 60's.....They still burp and Toot and think it's funny and when Mom was still here,one of my brother's was here for a short visit and there was a dead mouse I asked him to pick up and as he did,he shoved the dead mouse at me and I slipped and fell and hit my shoulder and back on the chopblock and was bruised up for days after and he just thought that was so funny.I doubt if they'll ever grow up.

Pam Z - Oh, to be a fly in the wall! Mother had several people ( friends, ex now) convinced she had heart disease and a host of other things. When mother was in geri psych hospital, one phoned me to update, and as she listed the conditions one by one, I was having trouble finding different ways to say No". Just plain "No", "Uh-uh", "Not really"... When it came to the heart disease and she said, "But she DOES have a heart condition," my answer was,"She has never been diagnosed nor treated for one." There was a stunned silence on the other end of the phone, the conversation essentially ended, and neither mother nor I ever heard from that lady again. Amazing the tales they spin to get attention.

upset - trying to control a narc???? That almost made me laugh but I know people try it. Sounds like he got off to a good start. It will take a while for some to open their eyes, and some may never. I am sure some are as dysfunctional as those they care for. It stands to reason. I think his group may be very valuable to some.

Oh lucky - that was not nice - real bullying in my eyes, and juvenile. I doubt they will change. Ouch, it must have hurt!!!

Yes,it did hurt Golden , and I was caring for Mother,so I sure didn't need the extra pain.
One of my brother's is huge at 6-4" and he never knew his own strength and I remember just walking by him,and he'd hit me and I'd cry and he would say it was just a tap to my parents but taps don't leave bruises I used to call "strawberries" that lasted days.

Luckylu, ouch! How painful. I hope for you, your time around your brothers is very limited.

Upset, good for PJ doing this group. I’m sure he will be an awesome instructor.

Golden beware of the disability tax credit if you claim the NH as a medical expense, you can't claim both.

Golden, It's been my experience in working with groups that there are a couple of people who are there to honestly seek help and improvements to their problem(s). There are those few that attend out of curiosity and they may or may not benefit. There are people there who think they're in charge of the group because they've attended other groups. Finally, there are those who come but they don't think they have any issues. Everything is someone else's fault. The goal as a facilitator is to keep they last two groups of people from taking over or disrupting everything. The other people will move at their own pace if the latter two don't throw things off the track.

This morning at the center three of us had the unpleasant task of telling one of the caregivers she was no longer allowed to participate. She had been told previously that her behavior would not be tolerated. She was disruptive, noncooperative, followed almost none of the centers rules and violated confidentiality rules. Unpleasant but necessary.

Today I'm off to conduct a training session and peer review for the state. Not my favorite thing, but a requirement. I would rather be reviewed than be the reviewer.

Everyone have a great day.

Thanks Sharyn. PJ is a good therapist and group leader. He's very patient and a good listener. I got to know him when he was a University football coach. He was strict, but good with his players, good at gaining the confidence and respect of his players.

lucky - I am so sorry you had this ongoing bullying. Our sibs can manipulate our parents to save their own skins. My sis did, though "bruises" from her were emotional not physical. I am troubled that your parents didn't see the bruises and what was happening. My dd says I have a "mother bear" instinct to go after anything or anyone who threats my kids - and that would include another kid, though mine did not do that to one another. Our home life was far from "the Waltons", but that was more due to my choice of husbands, not due to the interactions between the kids.

cwillie Thank you for that information. Is claiming the NH a better deal?

What I got from Revenue Canada website was - "To claim these expenses, you need to include a detailed statement of the nursing home costs. Only the portion of your monthly bill used to pay attendant care salaries can be deducted. Rent and administration salaries are not eligible." and then from an advisory site "You are able to claim 100% of the costs paid to a nursing home or a long-term care facility if you have a CRA-approved DTC Certificate, or a letter from a qualified medical practitioner. Without them, you are unable to claim expenses paid to a nursing home or long-term care facility.

Can you comment on that? We have a case meeting at the NH soon and I will ask them about it and also check with mother's tax people.

upset - with regard to your time with your grands, you mentioned your mother criticizing you. That struck a note with me. Growing up and being made very aware that I was continually falling short of mother's expectations, and that while also seeing that my sister pretty well met her expectations was difficult. Thank goodness for my father who, despite his alcoholism, loved us unconditionally, though I believe my sister has had some issues related to him. My dad and I were "pals." My mother and my sister were allies in the family wars. But, without doubt, his nature was to love us both, and he was a gentle-man in every sense of the word. However, the family was very polarized. Overcoming the feelings of inadequacy due to the continual criticism from childhood on is the work of a lifetime. PJ sounds like a great group leader. It shows through in his family life too.

re the groups, it sounds a bit like classroom dynamics. It is hard to oust someone but necessary at times. Hope the training and reviewing sessions go well.

Golden, My mother inserted herself into anything with my son and my grandchildren. None of us met her expectations, while my badbro and his family were perfect despite all indications to the contrary.

Peer review done for another three months. No problems.

Group dynamics are always consistent with a few variations. PJ is better than I am handling those who disrupt, so I let him if the situation is right.