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Is the moon the reason I'm still awake at 3:45 though?  Or was it that midnight snack of honey garlic pepperoni?  (Edit:  "Midnight snack."  Let's say 1 AM snack.) 
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What I was gonna post about earlier was that I called the RCMP on my cousin this evening, because I finally listened to mom's messages after 3 days and I was scared for mom's sister. But I'll save that for another day. It's complicated.

I am very glad none of us from my mother's side of the family had kids. This line really needs to die off with us.
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I think there area lot of us from "normal" families who have rubbed elbows with friends and extended family who have experienced dysfunction, this thread has really helped me understand that dynamic and made me more sympathetic to them. For sure I know I will never again tell anyone blood is thicker than water.
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No blood is thicker than water here, for sure! Though mom would often say it. She liked to pretend that we had such a loving family. But she raised us to be so very competitive with each other. I was the brain, ts1 the thespian, ts3, the baby, and just loved and admired in a very different way. I was out of the house for her high school years so really do not know much about it. At mom's service though she read probably a five page letter to mom. Seemed to take forever talking about things she and mom would do together after the older two were out of the house. Actually that was odd, now thinking about it.😍
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Gershun - I'm sorry my post made you feel like you could not post here. I was not even thinking of you at the time. I am also very sorry you lost your Mom.

We all have our stuff to deal with and although I am happy for those who have a close relationship with their parents it would be nice if I did not feel judged because I need strong boundaries around my role in the caretaking of my parents. You have never made me feel judged but my co-worker did. Again, I apologize if my post hurt you.
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Gershun, I envy the people who had a sweet mother. I wish I had had one. Sometimes I simply don't process the stories about nice mothers/families very well and I shut down.

Even within one's nuclear family there are different perceptions of what a parent was or is like. I adored my father. But I've found in the last few months that my youngest brother loved him, but had a very difficult time with him. I got married and moved when Jay was six. I didn't see his teenage years and the struggles he had with my dad.

All of us have different stories of our growing up.
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Dorianne, you're right that this thread is about dysfunctional families. I'm happy--and envious--for those families who are truly tight-knit, there are too many families that are the opposite and have suffering members. This thread has helped me a lot.
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If it weren't' t for CMagnum starting this thread, I would be stuck in the "I hate my mother" mindset.
If it weren't' t for people who love their Mom's like Luckylu and Gershun talking about loving your Mom's, even in the presence of dysfunction, again, I would be stuck in the
"I hate my Mom mindset." While I hate what she did to me, I don't think I really hate her, but what she did to me and my siblings, whether from narcissism, some mental illness, or the 3 brain tumors she had in her final days. It is hard to recall the good things she did, like sewing real draperies, working to support 3 children with an absent husband, sitting up with a sick child all night, buying that special dress required for the school Miss Posture contest, taking my sister and I to ballet lessons, cooking great meals at the many family gatherings she hosted at our home. Screaming at us in the car as we went shopping so that I wanted to just run away. There you have it. Our relationship was just not "All or nothing", and I wanted her to love me.
The subject of this thread is painful and uncomfortable if one wants recovery.
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There are healthy tight knit families and there are unhealthy ones who are in each others' emotional back pocket so to speak.

My close knitness with my mom was not healthy and neither was my wife's with her mom. It's been quite a journey.
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There is good and bad everywhere. Because we may have had a bad experience does not mean we should avoid those who have fared better. So Gershun's Mom was sweet and loving I bet she has also had bad experiences in her life. Can those who have experienced strife in their lives find in there hearts something that did give them joy. There is much pleasure to be able to share someone else good fortune.
My French teacher in high school had a daughter of the same age, not actually a friend of mine but I knew her. The teacher had a husband who was working somewhere in the middle east I think in the oil industry and was gone for many months so wife and daughter were taking a trip to spend some time with him. daughter and probably Mom needed a new wardrobe to make the visit and keep up with everyone else.
I was invited to their house to view daughter's new acquisitions which of course was not a kindness as she knew my social situation. My mother was a live in housekeeper with one child welcome. Actually the employers were very kind to me and made sure I had experiences that would serve me well in later life, like paying for driving lessons.
By this time i had aquired a pretty strong ptotective shell from Mum being a single parent which was still shameful in the early 50s as my Dad had left when i was 10.
I was actually quite fascinated by the new wardrobe and not in the least bit jealous. Didn't like dressing up and frills anyway and still don't. Anyway after a while the French teacher realized what she was doing after all the outfits were displayed.
She apologized for showing me all this stuff when I had no chance of ever
experiencing a trip like that. I truthfully replied that I had enjoyed seeing everything and was not in the least bit envious
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Like I wrote above I envy those who have or had the great mom. Many times I can enjoy the stories of all the wonderful times they had. But, there are other times that I avoid listening or reading about it. AC has given me a lot of insight and has helped me. But I had a bad experience early on with a poster who was reveling in how wonderful her life had been. It was as if this person wanted praise and compliments for everything that been given to her by her family.

I was in the throes of the all of the garbage my mother and brother had done to me and the financial mess they had created. I tuned out totally. Things turned out better later on, but right at that point I was not in a position to hear the sunshine and light of that wonderful family. For those who have the good parents enjoy them if they are living, if deceased think of them with good thoughts and the memories of all the good times.

 For me I don't have those memories and I'm stuck with thinking that there is something wrong with myself because I can't grieve for my losses. Living with my mother and her family and my brother and his dysfunctional circus have left me without that ability to grieve.

 I don't revel in the fact that they are dead, but I don't miss the dysfunctional messes they created and the enormous amount of financial mess they left for me to clean up. My brother stole $585,000.00 from my Mom. His children stole my identity and ran up thousands of dollars of credit card charges. I still don't like to open the mail for fear of what will be inside. I just finished clearing up the last bill that they ran up. I've worked when I didn't want to and it wasn't fun getting a paycheck and immediately paying it toward the fun vacations they had. But paying it was better than that creditors calling. My brother even though deceased and his family are the nightmare that keeps on giving. I certainly don't have good thoughts about what they did and the role that my mother played in what my brother did.
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Oh lordie....the cousin I wrote of yesterday is always nattering about how "blood is thicker than water"....usually when he's insisting that the rest of us somehow owe him "something" for his sh***y childhood.....and that something always seems to be financial assistance. Dude, you bought a brand new Corvette on CREDIT. (Also, we ALL had sh***y childhoods, in this family, including the mother who gave you one.  Give your head a shake.)

When I wrote about my best guy friend's family, and the pain it gives me to watch them....yes, it's definitely envy and longing I feel. Not bitterness or disdain.  His loving and giving personality is how we became best friends.  Sometimes I wish we had romantic feelings for each other just so I could marry into his family, lol.

What I most appreciate about reading stories and knowing people from loving families, is that I learn HOW to be different from the person I would otherwise be. It's like....all of that terrible stuff is just normal life, until you have something different to compare it to. It gives you something to strive for, it gives you options you never knew you had.

This is a good discussion!
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When I checked mom's messages last night, there were 2 messages from her sister. She lives with her son (my cousin) and his girlfriend. I guess the two "lovebirds" were physically fighting, and the last message said he'd tried to kill the girlfriend! I went no contact with these folks years ago, but my aunt sounded so panicked that I wound up calling the RCMP in their town. I didn't even know their address! But the RCMP already had them on file, surprise, surprise. I guess they'd been out there before, more than once.

Anyway, I think my cousin and his girlfriend are a pair who probably deserve each other, and my aunt has done some terrible things to my mom. But she is also elderly and entirely dependent on them for her daily care. (She has dementia, too, and COPD, and is legally blind.) The RCMP went out there and then phoned me back....I guess no one is talking. Keep it in the family. I am pretty scared there will be some retribution on my aunt for tattling to mom.

So....I've really tried to stay out of their affairs, but I found myself telling the constable that I would contact adult social services for my aunt's sake. I don't know what it will accomplish. Lord knows she can't come here. Mom wouldn't stand for it, even if I COULD look after them both (which I can't, and won't). But the constable said to give them the police file number and she would try to work together with them to do something to help my aunt.

She really belongs in a care facility. Mom used to keep tabs on how cousin was treating her, but she can't anymore. And I think cousin keeps her around for the mortgage co-sign. He's already used all her money up. (I'm actually pretty sure he got the girlfriend for the mortgage co-sign, too. It's wouldn't be the first time he's done that! And he found her right after I intervened and told him to stop pestering my mom for financial/credit help.)

I really can't stand any of them. I'm not ashamed to say it. I know my mom and I have our issues, but part of the reason I moved her up here was to get her away from them.

Just realizing today that at least I got to inform their local RCMP what my cousin's character REALLY is like. He is the king of manipulative bulls****ers, all ooze and charm when he wants to be.  Now they know for sure all is not as it seems. 
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Yes Cmag, it has been a journey. Send, I love my parents, I hate what they did to us kids. The violence, mind games and perfectionism expected. I realized as an adult, they did not plan it. My mom was the dysfunctional one with borderline personality disorder (undiagnosed). I grieved the loss of not having a loving, supportive mother.

I have realized there is some dysfunction in every family. When it is extreme it’s scaring. No family is perfect, but with normal expectations of your children, not living your life through them and love, support, the children have a better chance of a happy adult life.

I am happy for those who had good childhoods, good parental relationships and sibling relationships. While I envy it, I am not sad about it. I do have some really good memories growing up, primarily Christmas Day and our family camping trips. In reality, my love of nature is probably an outlet for my emotions because we were a real family when we were camping. For my sister, it is her attachment to the Beatles. Coping mechanisms for us. Funny when I think of it now.

I am so much happier as a result of detachment from all those painful memories, they do creep in from time to time. Especially the loss of relationships with siblings,brothers who don’t really know me.
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My brother in law just got his third DUI on a bicycle.... does that make him disfunctional? (lol)
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Mally, is the BIL in California? When I lived in LA area, the police would give DUI for being on a bike. That is the only place I know of that does such a thing. How goofy, honestly. Let people ride their bikes, they're not going to hurt anyone... are they? Seems like a bit of over-policing to me, but I don't know everything, maybe there is a good reason for it.
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Last summer somewhere in the state a woman was arrested for DUI on a horse. I kid you not! Thinking about it no matter the transportation method, they could cause a danger to others whether walking or driving or riding.
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I am sorry glad just reminded me, when I was growing up in CA, there was an older man. Quite an alcoholic, he had his license taken away and he would ride his horse everywhere. He was always nice to us kids, letting us pet his horse. He would sometimes be passed out and his horse I guess new the way home. His wife was a social worker, and when she was on home visits, he would go by on his horse and he would take her keys so she would be stranded. Well, she finally learned to take her keys out of the car.
Anyway, sorry nothing really important just thought of that after seeing Glads post.
May God bless you all, with all your struggles and everything that is going on in your lives.
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Thank-you all for your intelligent, thoughtful comments after my post. I think we can all live together on here, dysfunctional families or not. As Veronica said in her post, even though I had a wonderful Mom there was still tons of dysfunction in my family. My Dad died when I was very young and Mom was out of the home a lot because she had to put food on the table for a brood of seven children. I think my attachment to her stemmed from that cause I was a latchkey kid. Even with six siblings, I came home from school and was alone a lot. Then throw in a violent schizophrenic brother, there were some tough times. I was bullied at school a lot and skipped class quite a bit to get away from that but then didn't feel safe at home cause of my brother. My Mom had to rely on my older siblings to look after the young ones and they weren't really interested in doing that. So it was bleak for me a lot. Throw in a narcissistic sister who resented me for some reason I have never been able to figure out and voila, there it is in a nutshell.

I'm not telling this story to get sympathy. Just to make the point that you can have a perfect parent and still suffer from a dysfunctional family.

But, thx for the positive feedback and the interesting discussion.
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Gershun, I hope you post here often. I am happy for you that you had a loving supportive mother.
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I have found that envy can be a motivating thing if you let it. I think it's a universal thing to want closeness and connection to others and family is our first experience with that, healthy or not. When I feel sad that I will never have that with my parents or siblings, it motivates me to look elsewhere for my need to connect. It reminds me how important my own children and grandchildren are. I write little letters to my grandkids who live far away. This week my grandson sent me a handmade "book" of his drawings. It was awesome.

I have two good friends that I make an effort to see on a regular basis. One of my co-workers and I have found we have a lot in common. We are going to try and meet for coffee once in a while. I look forward to growing this new friendship. Then of course there is my husband whom I adore. I also find a great deal of connection in my spiritual community.

I will always carry some sadness over the broken relationships in my family and I will likely continue to have twinges of envy when I listen to people talk about close parental or sibling relationships. Thats OK, it's human to have feelings. My life will stay in balance s long as I don't dwell and I remind myself of the many loving people I do have in my life. I will turn that envy into motivation.

Another important thing I need to remember .... my needs, happiness and fulfillment are up to me to satisfy....only me.
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Trying, that's one of the best, wisest posts -- for me and my journey -- I've ever read on here. I never considered the concept that I can take my sorrow over dys parents and turn it into motivation to have better relationships with others. I already do that, I have some friends I treasure and they seem to treasure me, too, but I never thought about it in those exact words. That's brilliant, and a way to "turn poison into medicine," which is something I hope I can sometimes do in my own life. I strive to be a truly decent person, in spite of myself. lol

There are endless ways humans experience dysfunction in our relationships, or cause it without even being conscious of it. That's my thing lately -- I'm trying to see and understand how *I* cause dysfunctional interaction. I have so much changing still -- this new thyroid medication has me feeling much better but also my brain is racing a bit all the time, I'm a little too "up" feeling... or at least more than I'm used to. The internal chatter never seems to stop these days. But I'm also so BUSY right now -- new responsibilities with job I've had 7 weeks, a few social outings (which are great), my fitness trainer in the morning is scheduled 3x a week for now, I'm getting involved more with a friend's record label and this is wonderful for me and part of longtime hobby...

So life is very full and good, but I'm almost too busy, and my internal chatter is nonstop and I'd like things to slow down just a little.   It's a nice problem to have, actually.  

How I cause dysfunction is I will say things w/o thinking them through. I said something that was true but also didn't need saying about a music acquaintance and she found out and she was hurt. It was a wake up call for me to be more thoughtful about what comes out of my mouth.

Anyway. Nice to check in on here and read back the past few days. This thread and this topic has been more than a lifeline through caregiving days, but helped me to understand how concepts about dysfunction - like detachment and boundaries - actually come into play in the real world, how they help us live the lives we want to and not stay mired down in the confusing feelings that surround dys families, or dys interactions of any kind.  
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Ali - I love what you said about looking at your part in dysfunction! That is something I will try to do more often.
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Ali, BIL lives in Colorado; caused a wreck (not serious, I guess; no one really finds out from him), but this time it was a felony. Wonder if he'll go to jail?
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Bicyclists cause numerous accidents and if they are adults they are charged like motorists.
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We have several men in our small town who drive everywhere on their riding mowers...LOL
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I've seen men here ride around, even at night, in the electric wheel chairs. One night I saw one of them had a blinking yellow light up high in the back and had lights pointed forward. Someone either had that special made or modified it.
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I'm kind of against the bicycles everywhere. In college my son was rollerblading on rollerblading path when a bicyclist who wasn't supposed to be there hit him. He was thrown into a tree head first. He was unconscious for over 9 hours.  He lost his sense of smell permanently and can only taste extremely spicy foods. He missed a lot of school and had to take summer classes. They never caught the cyclist.
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Mally, my guess is yes he will go to jail. Thirty days I think. DUI's become a felony after three prior convictions. Colorado is very hard on DUI's too many innocent have been killed.
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Oh Gershun, you are one of the most endearing posters. I love to read your posts about your relationship with your mother. I dont even think the previous post were about you but even so there are so many of us I am sure who love sharing those moments from you. Truthfully it gives me a chance to have a brief moment know what it feels like. I wish I had that with my mother and through you I get to see what it feels like and get to be happy that someone has and appreciates having that special gift. I love to see the happy and please please please dont leave and take that away from us. Its good to read posts that are about happiness and love. I experience that when I read your posts. It takes away the darknesss if only breifly in my own life. Yes, I longed for the loving relationships I saw as I grew up. You give an inside view of that to me. I love your wisdom and I love reading your posts it give sunshine. A break from the darkness. Plus you have given good and helpful wise feed back. I and so many more I am sure will cyber chase you down if you dare to leave here.!!!
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