The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

Sharynmarie,

Didn't your mother claim her Afghan was missing when she was in ALF?
HAAH! This is interesting. She sounds very active.
Well I'm glad she's where they can care for her, I'm sure they know how to deal with this.

Thanks also for asking about my mom. She's doing good, w/in what it means nowadays. It's been a little over 3 mos. now, since the gall bladder surgery.
The good thing is she's stopped having pain in her lower back, and the eating seems to be back on track.

I had to come to real terms with my sister's need to manipulate. This came out already several times when she had me go to mom's for supposed absent caregiver back up. You know I'm will to do this, but I don't like how my sister goes about it, coming home feeling lack of appreciation, and being cornered into doing extra time there, when It's done on the fly. I have done this by no being in so much phone communication with her. I have to put the brakes w/her, what can I say of Ms. Controller. Plus, she has a co-dependency dynamics between she & daughters, and it gets meshed into mom's caregiving. This has been escalating very recently because her eldest daughter now has the two babies. Of course my sister needs to be involved IMO, way too much with all of that, and even her other daughter. I refuse to be dragged into any of that, it's their choices, and they're a bunch of drama queens.

I used to have this idea, since I'm not the primary CG, living in mom's home.....
feel guilty about the amount of time obviously my sister puts in there, vs., mine.
But I'm getting over all of this, thinking "oh it's all warm and fuzzy, blah di blah....
but then I feel drained mentally after each time I have been there. Weird, how it's not the actual having to be there with mom, but having to absorb all of their bad moods, non=transparency, etc. In summary....emotional detachment.
Plus again, I know my sister doesn't in any way shape or form, ever put any of this kind of dynamics upon our two brothers, Why? Because she's bought into all the gender bias.

Speaking of my brothers, well the youngest, (he lost job of 29 yrs.)
he has been working for another company, a chain store. We were really relieved about this, and it's in his same field. I know this was very difficult for him, but he got right out there, and was really lucky too. I know this economy hasn't recovered.

Oh! my neighbor.....I've been keeping some distance with her also.
I don't like the changes in her personality when she drinks. I'd been really helping her out, when her daughter couldn't take her to some serous appts. this last year.
As I've said before her daughter only throws her a bone every now and then.
After about 3 big appts.,she started to hint that maybe I take her to more.
I would, but sometimes I basically can't later listen to her cattiness, and other clumsy things she says. The other thing I considered, well, if I keep being available to take her, the daughter is NEVER going to be concerned about her mother. Not like that is going to change, but oh well! My neighbor is a space case too. Sometimes when I've been with her, I find it hard to focus afterwards. I don't have time for this nonsense.

I'm so happy for you, and your sister that her medications are working for her.

Your trip will be great, you'll be able to take a much deserved breather, and have fun with your daughter. I remember you wrote about some cool girl things you both did. All right, take care.. some big hugs, & Much Love & Light! Margeaux

Joan your insights are as always right on. It was amazing how my church which is really a good reformed church or rather the membership did not get what I was going through taking care of the husband I only asked two things someone to drive the 5 miles to my house and take him to church once or twice a month and to give me a call once in a while so I could talk to a normal person-it was like I was invisible as a caregiver.

Hi Joyce (college) -you have been through a lot. I am glad you have the answer regarding your husband and that it is his meds. God works in mysterious ways... (((((hugs)))))
Alison - I am so glad you had a better day. Totally agree with your bro - keep comments and information very simple. I have found that sharing little gives them less ammunition -both my sis and my mum. You see the crisis my mother created when sis told her I was on holiday. it has happened before. She MUST be the center of attention. Now, some good will come of it as she has a geriatrician now, and is on a drug for paranoia. The benefit of moving somewhere else will only last a short while. I told her I will answer one email a week, and on the average do about that. However, it isn't enough for her. I will post about extreme self care. In this situation a main focus is emotional self care as well as the others you mention. I will expand later.
sharyn - I am so sorry for the experience you had from your church. I know you are not alone in that. I know others who have gone through the same kind of condemnation. My experience was more total lack of support when I was going through some difficult times. I felt like an outsider, not that I had felt much like an insider at any time. There seemed to be cliques in the church, and if you didn't fit, too bad.
packing up to leave today - will be home late tonight. I have finally caught up on the sleep I missed last week, though haven't done any sight seeing - may try to fit some in this morning. Would be a shame not to.
cmag - Sorry to hear that your mum is declining. Hope your wife goes through the surgery OK, and you hold up through it all.
Austin - glad to see your valuable contributions
Margeaux - hope all is peaceful with your family, and your neighbour.
book - you are in a hard place. I have always found it better to face stuff. go through the pain and then move on, but we are all different, and you have to do what is good for you. If you do bring it up, you won't go over the edge - but I know it feels like it and is scary.
Everyone - hope I haven't missed anyone - take care of you - do something good for you today (((((hugs)))) and prayers Joan

Thank you for all of the "attagirls" and support, it means a lot.

Margeaux, in my particular case, I'm not sure that obtaining MPOA/POA is what I want to do. I'm here at my dad's house in a "transitioning period." My father will never be able to be "on his own" again, but I'm trying to figure out exactly what next step is. I meet with elder attorney next week and should know much more after that. But I get the gist of what you're saying. ...and another cold reality for me is, even if I WERE documented POA, that wouldn't help keep my mom for "coming for a visit." I just don't see how I can keep my mom from butting in...
which leads me to another tip younger bro gave me...

He said "do not only communicate with mom when she is initiating it, placate her with regular phone calls and her need to be involved in your life will be satisfied and she will not be so intrusive."

I got what he was trying to say here. So today, even though I don't necessarily "want to," I called my mother and left her a voicemail telling her I was calling to tell her how my dad's urology appointment went today, if she wanted to know. I'll try this and see if this method, of regularly reaching out to communicate to her, along with keeping my words very terse, is what it takes for her to feel "involved" without needing to do these visits that feel very forced on me and are so disruptive.

And it was a looooong day at VA urology clinic with dad. The major VA med facility in Chicago is just so busy, and seems so discombobulated. But truly, the technicalities of caregiving, like taking my dad to his many Dr's appts, for ME, are nothing compared to the emotional toll and battles at times.

But I'm getting through it and I'm learning a LOT... and it was "due"... its time I learned to deal with these foundational emotions I was conditioned with.

And book, these areas are HARD to address. Don't be discouraged in the least that you feel so dragged down when you try to take a step towards dealing with them. But I do believe we are capable of "coming out the other side" feeling like someone who owns their own destiny... and settling into a life that is more peaceful than it was before... Maybe, book... maybe dredging up this stuff while you are still caregiving to your father isn't a good idea... maybe just use therapy, right now, to help you deal with sibling issues and resentment/hurtful issues overall... but save the more painful emotional work for a future day... and don't worry about it too much at all right now... just get a little support from therapy for where you are now, and leave the intense stuff for a time when you are ready... and maybe, book, you are never ready... the point is for us to live happy and free. Its just that for me, I felt like I was being tied down to people I didn't "belong to" anymore. I'm NOT just my parents' child! I want my freedom and I needed to claim it emotionally. I'm still not "there," of course. But its nice to be taking some steps.

Emjo! "Extreme Self Care!" You're speaking my language! I want to hear more about what this means to you, when you have time to go into it more. So far, I've found the courage and strength to deal with this big "pile of poo" that is caregiving to dys parents by adopting a lot of self care habits. Before those habits, I was getting crushed. My self care is physical (like juicing, exercise, breathing exercises) and mental (like mindfulness, meditation, "accentuating the positive," having compassion). I'm def not going for sainthood with this stuff... it just happens that I've found out how much it really helps me and so I do it "as necessary" now...

Take care all, hope everyone had a good day. :)

Allison-I am glad you found something that works-yes baby steps are the way to go-once you make a plan and it works no matter how small empowers you to make bigger steps and you will be more in control-and the advice from your brother is good-short answers usually work and if you feel in control that is good-it takes practice but get easier as you go along-your experience will help other that is whate makes this form so great.

Hi Margeaux~ Thank you for asking about my mom. She is thriving physically, but still having big issues with us since she was moved to live in the memory care unit. I really think most of it is because we had to take the dog away from her. I haven't been able to get to visit as much as I usually do because of my work schedule. They, in memory care, moved the woman who was next door to mom because mom was fighting with her accusing her of stealing her cosmetics and an afghan. LOL!!...in the meantime mom is sneaking into other residents rooms making phone calls to us!

Yes, the room is finally painted and I love the color. Still need to paint the woodwork and get new molding strips. Eventually I want to put laminate flooring in. The fun part will be when I can decorate it.

Over all I am doing great!! We will be going to Idaho in Sept. to visit our daughter and sil. I am looking forward to a week away. My sister is doing better, she is taking a different antidepressant so no more hallucinations. Brother and his wife are doing as well as can be expected after losing their son and sil's mother so close together.

Yes, I am glad to see new posters on the thread, they all have so much to offer all of us!!

How are you doing Margeaux? Is everything going well for your mom and sister? I hope your brother is making some headway on getting a new job. Amazon is opening a distribution center near us so many people are applying. I hope your neighbor is better.
Hugs to you, enjoy the upcoming weekend!

Sharynmarie,

How are you doing? There have been quite a few new posters here, and I had a hard time following everyone's stories. This took me several days just to catch up and read all of them.

How is your mom doing these days, and all of your family?
I hope all is well, and congratulations about the completion of the painting.
Much Love & Light! Margeaux

Alison, I'm sooo glad for you that it all came out well! Good advice from bro. I was wondering if you were planning to tell us what he told you. But, you answered my unasked question. ABB, I think you are a very very very strong person. Despite all these terrible things you went thru as a child and a blooming adult, you were able to overcome it and still remain a loving, caring person. And you're constantly moving forward trying to heal yourself.

Truthfully, it's because of you and others here who keep saying that therapy has helped you all, that I'm going to Try therapy again. I just need to be careful that the therapist does not go against God or comes in conflict with my religious beliefs. Otherwise, I must end our therapy. Just because my religion tentatively Okayed therapy, I UNDERSTAND the hidden meaning. I've been seriously thinking of this all day. And I still am dragging my feet about therapy. I got a call today from them. Asked a lot of questions and will see if they can find for me a female therapist. Sigh..... We will see how this goes.

Thanks everyone. I read here but rarely comment. I almost always end up feeling so sad when I read here. By the time I'm done with catching up, I no longer feel like writing to anyone. It's not you guys fault or anything. I think by reading your words, it's somehow chipping against my memory block of my own childhood. Your words and my mind's determination NOT to remember the past. So much conflict within. NO, I will NOT discuss my childhood when i go to therapy. I'm fine now. Those awful memories will push me over the edge. I cannot afford for it to come out.

Alison, I really really do admire you! I try my best not to compare myself to you. You are so proactive, and I am just so determined to hide my head under the darn sand. You go charging forward. I have to be dragged, resisting and getting angry...before I finally stop resisting, think, and then agree that you all are right all along. It's just soooo tiring when I am constantly fighting against every new thing. Later....

Excuse the spelling and typos. I loved your poems! I love all of you strong people and you are awesome. Keep on keeping on! Love to all! Joyce

I know counseling, therapy and meds helped me in 1983 when I had a severe depression. I had left the church for about ten years and was very confused and bitter, but then my husband had an affair with a girl 18 yrs and my eighteen yr old daughter had gotten pregnant and involved with a family I had issues with. My phyciatrist actually told to me to go back to my higher power Jesus,plus all of the other tools they taught me use again to fight the depression. It worked. I started healing and my new grandaughter was a gift from GOD. We need to realize how strong we can become through our believe in Jesus. I had to learn how rough the world is and to make the best of it. I learned to take myself lightly. Don't sweat the small stuff and strive to make a difference. Love and prayers, Joyce

Alison~You are awesome!!! Way to go girl, I am so happy for you and proud you handled things the way you did♥ Hugs to you!!

Alison,

On a very basic level regarding your father's doctor's appointments,
if I may ask...do you have MPOA, or POA of your father's affairs?
I'm a visiting caregiver of mom w/ALZ. My sister lives w/her and has MPOA.
I've never been invited to a doctor's visit for mom. I definitely do not have the right either to talk to one of her doctors about mother's health.
Anyway, I was thinking of this....say if you had MPOA, and only you, this may limit your mom from taking your dad to his appointments through another channel. O.K., wishful thinking on my part, so you could have some peace.
Much Love & Light! Margeaux

Alison,

I meant to say: "This is no fun, and very draining.

Margeaux

Alison,

I am so happy for you that your day went well.
Taking the baby steps is very important to any kind of change.
It's rather interesting also, if you read about narcissists, if I remember correctly....there's info. regarding that it's of no use to explain and give these long winded reasons about anything. Since they are so at the forefront of what they want they'll never listen to you.

We who are on the receiving end, have to realize that we must change our reaction to them. You did this by noting you have been possibly becoming emotional. Remember...try to keep those emotions in check, it's really a discipline. If you don't then this is when it goes into choosing and picking the battles. This is fun, and very draining.

You're in my thoughts, Much Love & Light! Margeaux

Just wanted to add a little something that may or may not be helpful to someone else...

The biggest idea that my bro emphasized with me, in dealing with our mom, is to keep your words/answers very short... answer in "yes or no," don't give her anything else... now that sounds drastic, but I just accepted his input 100% and said "I'll do it." I just communicated in one-syllable, one- and two-word answers, pretty much, to my mom for her "visit" of several hours... she didn't seem put off by it in the least! Lol! Everything on "her end" was business as usual, she asked one zillion questions about one zillion topics and made one zillion assumptions... none of which are any of her business and could be drama-inflaming topics if I let them... meanwhile I'm deeply focusing on just keeping the response to absolute, basic minimum! But it worked!

I'm like you, emjo, I'm a "noisy desperate" person, too! My heart is directly connected to my mouth, lol, and if I'm hurt or offended, I can easily began to fall into old emotionally defensive patterns with my mom... where I'm trying so hard to get her to see how she's hurting me, see how her actions affect me... but I tried that way for many years... so... it is what it is... no more trying to "explain myself" to my mother... and that is, really, a sad idea not a triumphant one... mother and I can never be friends, but I'm hoping we can be friendly...

Thank You, sharynmarie, Thank You, Scmoon, Thank You, Margeaux, Thank You, cmag, Thank You, emjo, Thank You, austin, Thank You, juju, Thank You, Jinx, Thank You, book, Thank You, ladee...

Now I know what they mean at the Grammy's when they say "and anyone else I forgot to thank... you all mean so much"

I'm just really grateful for all of you and your willingness to share about your own experiences.

I was just so darn excited about my "breakthrough" (a good baby step, for sure) and wanted to share... I don't know if it was the prayers that helped, or just because I put in the "work"...

I don't care who/what gets credit for the good, sane day I just managed to have, regardless of mom's unwanted visit. I'm just so relieved, and so thankful, that it happened.

I've been reading and reading about you all everyday, trying to get over the past week of trama with my husband. I was devastated. I was convincing myself that he had Sundowners but the VA said meds and they were right. The seizure medicine for his brain injury had to be adjusted. Now all is well. So very scary. I did not sleep Tuesday night, Wednesday night, Thursday night or Friday night. My husband was confused and out of his head every night for about 4 hours. VA doctor Friday and Thursday ER doctors wore us out. What a nightmare. Saturday, Sunday, and Monday nights were very normal, thank GOD! It feels like a miracle to me. I am so very happy! This must be another test and I am going to pass it.
He still has short term memory lost, but I will deal with it and never complain again.
Now I know how bad it could be. ( I think the Lord was trying to show me this.)
I love you all very much and pray for you all daily. GOD is so faithful and never lets me down. I am nothing without Him. I give Him all the praise and all the glory! My 92 year old Mother has been an angel. She also had a taste of how bad it could be while my husband and me were gone to hospital and VA. She was with my two daughters and my grandchildren taking shifts with her at our home. She did say she was wore out and glad everything was back to as normal as normal can be.

Oh wow. I am so touched right now, by all of you. Thank you, Joan. People like the ones on this thread make all the difference to me. Last night, after my mother would not relent on "coming to visit," I bawled for several hours and just got into a very bad emotional place. I think it was a cumulative effect of EVERYTHING: participating in this thread so actively in the past few weeks, where these ideas of abusive/PD/narcissistic parents/family are discussed... and I've been trying to come to terms with my mother's behavior and yesterday I put into words some of the things that went on CONSTANTLY when I was growing up. In doing so, I of course had to "relive" some of it. And then my mother's refusal to acknowledge my request that she not come to visit... it all took a toll on me yesterday and I crumpled and cried and had nightmares and didn't sleep very well.

Today I took my dad to his doctor's appointment. I did leave the house early, to avoid my mother, and even before I left, I had taken the phone off the hook so my mother couldn't call my father and find out I was taking him early, I felt somewhat panicky that I just wanted to get out of the house and get going before she showed up.

This IS undoubtedly part of the PTSD, part of my emotional response, to my mother's behavior. Its also just part of my personality, though, too. My emotions can run a little strong... especially if my mom keeps poking me in the same damn spot she's been poking me in for 38 years, lol!

Thank you... so much... to those of you who said prayers for me. They had a wondrous affect.

My younger brother called me today as a warning to me... that my mother was telling him that she thought I was insane... literally... my mother was claiming I was mentally sick because, of course, I lost my temper/emotional bearings and "went off" on her yesterday and hung up on her. Then, with my hurt emotions flaring, and trying to figure out WHAT to do next... since she clearly wouldn't respect my wishes for some "space" from her, I came up with the (lousy) idea of threatening her with trespass/restraining order - something of that nature - if she stilled forced the visit upon me... and this idea further gives my mother the ammo she uses against me. Now, I'm just a "crazy" person, period. The problem IS, from my perspective, that my mother does not see me or hear me or respect any boundaries. But when I go and throw a threat of legal trespass onto the problem, now I've given her everything she needs to not see her own behavior as the real problem. I can't change her. But I can stop giving her ammo.

My younger brother does understand the true nature of the problem, and was empathetic. He told me some of his own "coping strategies" for our mother, whom he lives with. I don't know how in the world he does it, but since he does, he is thee expert on how to get along with her, lol!

I was very "ready" to learn to do things differently with my mom. I just didn't quite know how. To me, "boundaries" meant telling my mom I needed some "space" right now, in my home, but I would come for visit next week. And while it would have been NICE (lol!) if she was respectful of that, she simply isn't. But after talking to my bro and getting his input of how to do the boundaries/detachment with our particular mother, I heard what he was saying, knew he was right, and just decided to handle things this way... instead of insisting on actual physical avoidance with my mom today.

And things went just fine with my mom's visit. Not even that, they went well. I felt good about how I acted, maintained my own integrity and compassion for her, was able to communicate with her, and she left EARLY! Lol!

Phew. I don't like the emotions that come up around this issue... but I do feel good and promising about my ability to learn to do things differently. I don't want to feel hurt and threatened anymore by her, and I think I made a really good solid first step today.

And its because of you guys. I KNOW it is. Others who encourage me, support me... in this difficult emotional gray area... where something means one thing to one individual, completely different thing to another... all I've really needed is encouragement and the notion that its possible... to change around these lifelong hurtful relationships... one baby step at a time.

I've got to stop my own emotional response that I get when things happen now, today. This response is a product of a hurt past, of a hurt child. I am not a child anymore. This is what I reminded myself of today, as I was driving back home from Drs visit... I am a grown up now. My mother cannot truly hurt me. Sure, she will drive me nuts with her crazy habits and inflexible ways... and I still think its just plain old mean to force a "visit" on someone who asks you nicely to not... BUT, I claim my ability to deal with her without becoming the vulnerable child I was before. I'm just simply not that person anymore.

No more dancing monkey.

I took a good step today. I know it will have to be followed up by many more. But... I can do this. ;D

I love you guys. Thank you.

((((((Alison))))) Sorry I didn't answer sooner. We travelled all day yesterday.

So, so sorry for your childhood experiences and the pain you still suffer because of them. I don't see how you could NOT have PTSD from your childhood experiences, and even from adult experiences with your mother. I suspect this is at least a part of the reason that Pauline Boss, recommends that adults who, as children, were abused by their parents, are not hands on caregivers to those parents. In my view, your mother sexually abused you by exposing you to what she did. I had the same experience, but to a much lesser degree. Sweetie, in my view. you need to practice what I call "extreme self care" to heal from all those dreadful experiences, and not have the traumas reinforced by your mother's behaviour.

She is sick, Alison, and maybe she cannot help her behaviour, and I think it unlikely that she can or will change it, but that does not mean you have to continue to be hurt by it. I know well what it is like to be treated as an extension of someone else, to have my emotional needs unrecognized and unmet. It is very demoralising. I have been in the emotional state you were in recently. Your physical and emotional health are being negatively affected. You are the only one who can make the changes that will improve your life.

One of my stages in getting better was accepting that my mum was as she was and not expecting her to be different, or even wanting her to be different. Did/do I like they way she is? No, of course not. But by expecting/wanting changes I was only adding insult to injury - more and more disappointment. I had to grieve the loss of a childhood, and the lack of a "normal" mum, who. though she looked after me physically by feeding and clothing me (though even that has negative connotations which have affected me deeply) did not give me a safe environment as a child, did not care about my feelings, raged and had tantrums, argued and fought, gave me a dreadful role model of a wife and mother and so on. She does have some talents and I can appreciate those now, but they in no way make up for the negatives.

"Substitute" mothers, mostly the mother's of friends, played a nurturing role in my life. I have a few friends who have "mothered" me at times. I am so grateful for all these people, without whom I would not be who I am today. A strong support system is, IMO, essential for us to survive a dysfunctional family and become whole.

I went for counselling as I needed it and found, over all, those with training in social work were the best for me. I still go for counselling when I need it, There is a saying that people live lives of quiet desperation. I have always said I live a life of noisy desperation and people know it when I need help. If you hurt physically, you go to a doctor. If you hurt emotionally, you go to a counsellor or therapist. My understanding of psychiatrists is that they mainly prescribe drugs and many don't do therapy as such. I may be wrong here. I honestly think anyone needs counselling help to recover from the trauma of a mentally ill mother/parent.

I believe that your mum enjoys the chaos she creates. I know mine does. I exhausts me and other family members, but she is energised by it. As one counsellor said to me "Why would she change - it works for her".

Dear Alison, I feel you pain. I have been praying for you and will continue. Re the de-churched - I am one too. I will continue that in another post. My faith is strong, but I do not attend a formal church. Regarding honouring one's parents, there are many interpretations of that and many other guidelines for behaviour -like it is honourable to walk away from strife. A fundamental basis for Christianity is love. Love God and your neighbour as yourself. Many of us were brought up without expectation of loving ourselves, rather an expectation of serving others. Thus, for healing and growing we need to learn how to love ourselves. It is not honouring to a parent, ourselves, or anyone else, to enable their sick behaviour, or to have a codependent relationship with them. Melody Beattie writes well about codependency. Addictions do not have to be involved for there to be codependency. Basically it means putting others before yourself. "Co-dependent No More" is one I found helpful.

More (((((((hugs)))))), Alison. I think you are a walking miracle. You are a warm, intelligent, loving person, and to have survived your childhood with those qualities, is, to me, miraculous. I know you are going to get a handle on this and move to a better place. I am privileged to walk part of that journey with you. Joan

It is very true you can not change others-their behavior is working well for them. I has a light bulb moment while in LA-my mother had screeched at me yet again-about using the ac-I had said to her if she is too cool or warm let me know and I would fix things 2 days later was the screeching and I turn the ac off and thought she has no power over me any more-that felt freeing-mnow I am in a great relationship with a nice loving man and I appreciate him even more for what I went through growing up and my l o n g marriage to an abusive man who died 4 yrs. ago, We have to change ourself to be who we want to be and set boundaires to those upsetting us.

So great to read everyones' posts, yet very disturbing also...so many of us were abused at the hands of the ones we are now caring lovingly for...how weird is that? Before I took on this role, Dad lived far away and we made had weekly conversations regarding what he was doing and what we were doing...10 min phone calls were good. Now that he is in my home and in my face everyday, memories are fresh and raw from childhood..it is a constant battle everyday to put those feelings aside and give him constant care and love...They can be so loving and appreciative at times and other times so demanding and rude, yet we have to wear the same face because deep down we know they are sick and not around that much longer. But it can be emotionally draining.

Today has been fun, (a little humor) not funny at the time, but his motorized recliner got caught on chair he puts his feet on and we was way up in the air tilting forward but no where near the ground. When i pulled the foot chair out he slammed to floor only resting on the bed side table now caught underneath with a screw from the chair dug into the metal legs on bedside table.. Many lifts and many tugs, my 17 yr old son and I rescued him. The picture of him up in the air looking like he was floating to heaven..(I knew that wasn't the case!LOL)
game me humor (inside) even with 90 deg weather and dripping sweat and telling him it was ok and not to worry about! 2 min later of getting him back to normal he needs to get up and go to the bathroom...that is when I breath in deep breaths and keep on going all with door bell ringing, dog barking, phone ringing, etc..

so glad to have this site to vent on! hope everyone's day is as good as can be expected and pray or not, we keep doing the best we can with what we have been exposed to..how amazing is that!

My religion frowns upon therapy. Very much frowned upon. Even when I was seriously suicidal last year, they were still so firm on No Therapy. Instead, I was suppose to see the religious leaders and God for help. I didn't want sympathy or empathy. I Needed Help with My Parents - Physical Help! I had decided that death was my only way out of this prison. I had it all planned out - where, when , how, etc....

A few months later, I was visited again by the religious leader. Actually several times he visited me. I was no longer the shy smiling person. I would sit there and rarely "open up" to him. Finally, on his last visit, he started a sentence - with Obvious Hesitation. He finally said that if needed to seek therapy, then go ahead. But I can tell from his sentence, tone of voice and facial expression, that my religion still frowns upon it but are compromising on my behalf.

I have no desire to go back to my religion. One day, if I ever move away from here, I will change my religion. As it is, I live in a small island. If I quit my religion, I will be shunned. Some of my religious members already think I'm excommunicated. They've ignored me in stores, and look right through me - as if I don't exist. And I'm not even formally excommunicated.

This subject is soooo tiring and depressing for me. Later...

To be fair, I must add that many mainline denominations have made some progress in this area, but from what I've heard many of the more ultra conservative, namely fundamentalist type churches have not and that I believe mainly out of ignorance. Too few people know that the protestant reformer, Martin Luther, suffered from depression, mentioned it a lot without any shame, and was keenly and compassionately observant of Christians with mental/emotional issues and advised clergy to be compassionate as well. NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness, is reaching out to churches in hopes of educating them to show radical hospitality to those with a mental illness and their families. This is something that I've tried to do within my limited sphere of influence through speaking and writing. I think any church that can be hospitable and even involve people with a mental illness and their families is a healthier church because it is more loving. Like the song says, "they will know we are Christians by our love".

Hugs, love and prayers for all.

Cmag~Your response to Alison is very right on. Unfortunately, the church is the last change regarding social changes in culture. I also came out saying I was depressed and because I was seeing a therapist....a big sin within the church.It is a shame!! Hugs to you!

Alison, the term de-churched is a rather new term and one I learned from a book titled, Reaching the De-Churched, which it defined as Christians who have not left their faith, but have left the institutional church after some painful experience like telling someone their depression is because they lack faith, have a demon or there is some unconfessed sin in their life. Some churches are still in the dark ages about mental illness. My family and I have had a mixed response from churches to her mental breakdown and to my depression, but much of it was negative. We hardly attend church and or Sunday school anymore.

Cmag~I enjoyed your poems and am so sorry for what you have been through. You have come such a long way in recovery from all the abuse you went through.I look forward to reading more of your poems. I understand the disappointment with the hospital postponing your mothers surgery for a later date. Hugs to you and i hope you share more of your journey with us!!

Alison,

I really feel for your situation regarding your mother.
It is difficult, given that she is used to coming over your dad's, and as you stated was coming there for years. This makes it almost even tougher. You say she's divorced from your father, but look at even that dynamics, she still is enmeshed in his life. Your brother's attitude towards your mom also reminds me of my own brother's concerning issues in the family and denial about realities.

I realize you think that your mom isn't narcissistic, but maybe you should read the site that Emjo suggested to you. Even if she is not, she sounds very toxic.
It's wonderful in theory that you would like to have a relationship with her, however she really doesn't seem like she knows the meaning of respect towards a very wonderful person, you!

When I got to this moment in my relationship w/my own narcissistic mother, I took matters into my own hands. I realized there was no reasoning, explaining-none of that with my clueless mother. This is when I put some serious boundaries into place, and kept them. I have to tell you, she kind of backed down after that, because she now realized I wasn't going to tolerate any disrespect from her anymore. She doled out the very passive aggressive type of abuse, too.

Stand up for yourself, because no one else will,
Much Love & LIght! Margeaux

Scmoon~Thank you for such a loving, kind post. I truly appreciate it. I have forgiven my parents (my father passed away in 2003). My mother, I continue to forgive. As you said, it is not an easy journey, forgiveness does not happen overnight, in the beginning we have to forgive daily. I had a bad experience with the church as an adult. I had been attending church for ten years, was the Altar Guild Directress for 9 years when we got a new minister. He took an immediate dislike to me. I told my mother about my feelings, she said I was imagining things...normal response from her regarding my feelings. I should have resigned but I didn't. I hung in there for 6 more years only to be very badly hurt by this man. I ended up leaving the church altogether and have not gone back to any church since. It took me 3 years to work through the pain of what I experienced...he would target me from the pulpit regarding a new outfit I bought, he targeted me because I got a new, but used car I needed to get to work...he didn't believe in getting loans to buy cars, if you didn't have the cash to pay for it, you shouldn't get it.Then the worse came...they started shunning my children. That was the final straw for me. You want to attach me as an adult, that is fine...but don't shun my children...they are children for goodness sake!! I have found forgiveness for this situation too. I do believe in God and Jesus Christ, but what I believe is not what the church apparently believes. I have many friends who like you are Christian, but they don't treat me how I was treated at church. I went to the church asking for help when my youngest was 3 years old. My husband started a new job where he was working 12 hour days, I was working 40 hours a week. I was so overwhelmed with responsibility taking care of 2 small children by myself, working 40 hours a week...all I asked for was for one of their teenage children watch my 2 children for 2 hours on a Saturday so I could run errands, getting a well deserved break so I could quickly grocery shop and run other errands. I was demoralized for asking such a question, told I was a horrible mother for even thinking I should be away from my children. Because I was still very dysfunctional, I felt I deserved their treatment. I still struggle with this question...if the church felt I was not raising my children properly, why did they not take the opportunity to take me under their wings when I asked for help instead of waging war on me 15 years later? Enough of this. I feel your love and kindness Scmoon!! Love and hugs back to you, you are very loving and I appreciate it.

Alison~I must admit while reading your post, I was thinking you should take your father to the appointment early to avoid your mother. I don't know if that is the right answer or not but it certainly sends a message. Your mother sounds similar to my mil who passed 2009. She consistently forced her beliefs and how she wanted life on me to no avail. I loved her from the core of my being but we did not see eye to eye. What is sad...I found out from my fil's sister at my mil's funeral reception, that mil praised my crafting talents and said good things about me. Why didn't she ever tell me that? Oh well!! I did learn many positive things from her that my own mother did not teach me, I think that was the purpose of her being in my life. I only wish our relationship had been different. I am very emotional and respond better to people who are emotional too. Whatever decision you make tomorrow morning, we are with you, support you and as always hugs and love to you and Scmoon!!

I do understand about honoring your parents, What I didn't see was there are many ways of honoring them. Sharynmarie, I don't know you but your post touch my heart so much. We all can learn the different ways to honor our parents. Sometimes life is so hard being a caretaker of a parent. I had a daughter when I was 16, no one would hire me except a convalescent home. The day I started working , I told myself I would never put my parents in one. Well here I am taking care of the hardest person in my life ever. My beautiful mother. I, like you want to honor her, I know this is what God says to do. I have a very depressed mother, I cant seem to even get a smile.Sometimes I get thoughts like, I would just love to leave here, then I feel so bad I just sit and cry. My mom has a big thing like, shes the mom and I'm the daughter. So no matter what I do, she sees me as her child. I do understand, but its hard when you try to take care of someone, and they think you don't know what your doing. When I read your post, it was like the spirt came over me and put me in my place. Just in time, I was just about to go crazy. Thank you so much for writing it and filling my heart with love again. Warmly Jody

Breathing Exercises are really helpful. I let myself go completely down a road of emotional free fall tonight and didn't stop to do one BE. Ok, I am reminded now. I'll do them tomorrow, too.

Take care all. Thanks.