The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

Emjo, I remember few pages ago reading that you'd been in contact with your nephew. It sure is strange when oddly enough some family members oust good people. This was an interesting point also, what you've shared about your niece and the addiction. In my brother's family also, he and the wife in the background have always indulged in their share of alcohol. Fortunately, they have both held it together on the work front. But I guess these two escaped somewhat. Instead of working as a team with respect to raising their kids, and the marriage,they always were on opposite ends. Neither of them instilled any manners, responsibilities. Two of their kids have a new baby each, a seven year old. Neither of them are married to the other parent, so guess where these grandchildren spend lots of time? At my brothers. It's so the complete opposite family education that my dad taught us in our household, because he was rather strict with us. Mom, was not the person who was at all in charge of discipline, so I can't say I credit her w/this part of our social education in the home.
My brother has made complete mush out of those kids of his. Even throughout the years, my other siblings and me have realized how socially undeveloped they are.
Well, thank you very much for your input. On a very personal level for me, I being the eldest of the four siblings, and because I had to be so in charge since I was so young, I decided years ago that I'd be minimally involved once each of us went our separate ways with our lives. Well, I can tell when even now for what's going on, if I try to say something to my sister about being mindful not to become overly involved, etc. that I sense it hits a nerve w/her, since she has a 22 yr. old daughter still living w/her who I wrote about previously, who acts like a diva. Yes, and my sister is already showing, and telling me what she plans on doing now that my brother is in the circumstance he's in. At another level, I don't think that's any of her business. I love my sister, however I don't like this taking over, and as you've said not allowing things to just be, or the people who need to take responsibility for their own problems.

Once again, thanks, your very insightful emjo! Hugs, Margeaux

not too long at all Margeaux - I do think you are right about your sis wanting to rescue and fix them - that is codependent - it disables them and doesn't allow them to receive consequences, and learn from life. I have some sympathy for your concern about your bro and his family. My (narcissistic) sister's family is a bit of a mess. Her daughter, and daughter's husband are alcoholic - she shares a house with them, and says they drink a little (as whole lot all the time), and she is estranged from her son who had a lovely accomplished wife and a beautiful 5 yr old son. Long story short she has disinherited her son, and has little to do with them. I considered the situation, and have reached out to my niece and nephew. With the niece, she and I openly discussed addictions, and I said I would support her in any way I could. With the son, and his wife I am developing a long distance relationship, letting them know I am appalled at my sis's behaviour towards them, I am remembering their son's birthday etc. It is all I can do - basically be supportive. When I was teaching at the college, I saw a family with 4 young adult sons living at home - sounds similar to your brother's household. One of them was on some of my classes, and all I could do was encourage him towards the independence he said he wanted. It is dreadful how young people can be handicapped by not being encouraged and supported towards independence.

Truely Margeaux, no one can rescue anyone else. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink. You can support your bro to a healthier lifestyle, if he wants one, or through whatever he is going through healthwise, you can be available to be supportive to his kids too, but they have to take the steps. It is not healthy to get so involved that it is a detriment to your own life. I agree entirely that they created their own dysfunction, and only they can work their way out of it. And don't let them take up too much space in your head either - basically that means don't worry about them. To be concerned is normal, to spend a lot of time worrying is not good for you.

As far as your sis is concerned, I don't know how she plans on "fixing" a family - driving out there when she herself has a sore throat wasn't the best thing she could do for herself. Sounds like she has enough on her plate right now with your mum, and anyway, no one can "fix" anyone else.

Take care. I think you are on the right track. Your bro is a grown man - time to put his big boy boxers on and deal with his life.

izzy - I am with the others - your son needs 100% of your attention at the mayo. Mum will pitch a fit of some kind but so...? It is her choice to deal with it gracefully or not, and your choice to go along with her or not.

burned - hope your head is better

cattails - how are things at home with you?

cmag - hope things are resaonable and your roof isn't leaking

jessie -thinking of you and your mum - let us knnow how you are when you can

sharynmarie, ucant, banshee, austin, brandy - thinking of all of you -let us know how it is going

(((((hugs))))
jo

Emjo, Wow, what a poem about "Letting Go." You as well as others bring such great inspiration to this site. Thank you so much!

Well, I had a rather bad last few days. In our family we have two brothers aside from my sister and myself. Now our brothers were raised as the Golden Boys in our family. But throughout the care of mom and the sister who died, they do what my sister and me call, "doctor's visits." You all know what I mean, the 10 min. thing? Well anyway in a nutshell that's their input compared my sister and me is quite minimal. The older of the two bros, used to have POA. This got changed up few years back, because he was really just not meeting demands for two elderly women. Plus, he was mismanaging and quite honestly dipping his hand in the bank accounts. Of course there was fall out after this w/him and the other three siblings. Well, since recently mom's sis who'd been doing Hospice in mom's home, we siblings did recruit him back, as we knew it was the end of life for our aunt. I just found out he has a recurring Prostate issue. He's married w/four grown adult children. They're between ages 23-29. He and his wife have a pretty much non-existent marriage, although they all live in the same household. Talk about dysfunction. My brother has always done everything, he thinks in his power to keep all his kids still living there w/he & wife. Unfortunately, brother didn't raise them to be accomodating in the least. My sister and me suspect that this is probably some of the root cause of the marital problems between him and our sister-in-law. It's as if our brother has a fantasy that his kids are never going to leave the nest. The rest of we siblings realize how my brother has disabled his kids. They do work some, but this is only a recent thing. So yesterday my sister called him, just to check in via the Prostate issue. He'd just left the doc's office in which doc scheduled appt. on Mon. for biopsy. My sister said that he broke down sobbing to her. Of course he was upset about the biospy appt. Apparently no one accompanied him to this appt. So you see, this feeling my sister and me are getting, is that here my brother hasn't raised his kids to be good people. They are so selfish. Well, it gets better. So now my sister who has hands full w/mom, drove to his house last night w/a sore throat. She tells me she wanted to size up the situation and see what's going on over there. They live about 45 mins. from my sis's house. There's a part of me that yes, I felt very terrible at hearing my sisters story when my brother broke down, since we realize this situation hopefully will be positive. But as I've told her, there's always the other side. Sister is now behaving a bit as if and I guess this is where some of that poem applied, of jumping in and doing the fixing the situation. She's ready to go down there on the weekend and have a talk w/my nieces and nephews, and of course the wife.
Certainly in a scenario if they would not be concerned nor involved we'd be there. But yesterday's sorrow for me turned to anger. My brother and his wife have created all of this dysfunction. Now when they as a family need to pull it together, they are at a loss. Anyway, am I off the track here feeling this way?
I do love my brother, believe me. But I'm really at odds about again having to be the ones (we women) to do the rescue. My sister is the one that really goes into that mode. O.K., I hope this was not too long. Kind of going through some stuff right now! Have a great evening. Margeaux

Izsabella, I completely agree with Cattails. Why would you take your mom to the Mayo Clinic. Under the circumstances I'm sure this would totally distract your attentions from what's going on with your son. It's o.k. to say NO. I'm currently dealing with similar issues w/my sister who is the live-in caregiver of mom. My sister is wonderful, but just doesn't know when to stop. I'll talk about it in another post, but I've read about your situation and it sounds like you've spread yourself very thin. I think it's rather detrimental for a caregiver to think they can do everything, be everything for everyone. We just can't do that w/o some repercussions. Please take care of yourself, and yes nothing will happen to your mom if you are not the one w/her 24/7, especially under your current circumstance. Sending you love and light, wonderful woman. Margeaux

195Austin, Thank you so much for explaining about the wall. I was rather confused. Hope you are well! Margeaux

Yes i am still married to my husband btw it his doctor here in Az. Accused me of arsenic poisioning when its in the water and etc. I haven't heard no one from his family accuse me of doing that but then again I am the subject ridicule and supposed fantasy world that I live in which has no bearing on this concurring situation being there for my husband and children. I didnt mean to confuse you but also under attack from a sinus head cold and allergy so what may sound simple and straight forward may come out as gibberish. Right now trying to keep my head above it all and pray that one my wallet is found soon and 2 i get rid of this damned cold ...i truly got a frog going on and doing a disco in my throat and someone doing the bongo drums in my head with side can ya hear me drill pls noise lol...forgive me one of those days still...

To go to someones wall just click their name under their picture or no picture is located then when you get to their wall it shows how to give a hug and or a note then submit.

Good Morning Everyone,

I'm still getting used to Daylight Savings Time. Last week my body clock was all out of sync, kind of felt like a slight jet lag. Anyway how are you all doing? I noticed on my wall that I received hugs, and I don't know where else to ask, so here goes. I'm trying to figure out where I'd respond to the hugs I noticed when I viewed my wall I've received. No hug goes unnoticed! I'm still learning how to navigate in this tech world, can anybody help me please? O.K. going for my second cup of Joe. Margeaux

Hi Izzy: Just checking in. I was really sad to hear you say that you would have to take your mom with you to the Mayo Clinic. No offense, sweetheart, but that's just nuts. Isabella, you have a husband and your mom has an income. Between the two there should be some way of having care for your mom while you are gone. I'm sure no one will like it, but you have to start somewhere and this is the place. Your son will be going through a lot at the Mayo. He needs your undivided attention.

You know my husband is not a happy camper when he ends of being the one to takes my dad to the bathroom when he has a BM. Usually I do all the bathroom stuff, but sometimes it just can't be helped. But the good news is I love him for doing it and he knows that and he takes a certain pride in not leaving me with all the dirty work. Time for your hubby to step up to the plate.

Don't ask them, just tell them that you need to focus on your son and they need to make other arrangements. Your husband is a big boy and you can help with lining up a caregiver. Your mom won't like it, but she'll survive.

This is a critical time for your son. I've read up on his illness and I know the testing period will be intense for him. Let me repeat, this is a critical time. It's also the perfect time for you to say NO to your mom and husband and drive to the airport or hospital ALONE with your son.

How often do you have the chance to be there just for him. He needs you more than your mom does. Please try to do this. Please Izzy, you have to start somewhere. Do it now.

Love and Hugs, Cattails

Burned: I'm trying to understand your situation. Are you saying that your husband's doctors will not discuss his medical issues with you? You have no family in Az., but your saying that your sister accused you of trying to poison your husband? If this is true, I'm assuming it was in your previous location, in another state, before you moved to Az? I know it sounds weird to ask this, but are you still legally married to your husband?

Sold the car ...no way there last seen here at the house so anyways didn't declare my wallet stolen just missing ...and I am hoping I didn't dump it lol...omg just all this shit i am dealing to get done by April to keep my husband under his current in home care paid and since they are paying me I do not think the agency will work on finding a hospice volunteer to help me out when i need it most like being sick once more and tired and worn out. I recognize stages of Burnout and I am there again already but no hope for the loving and true. On a side note looks like my friend gonna be here before April be nice to have a familiar face to talk too and really arrange some fun times when we both can afford it . I am praying her husband lands a job once he gets down here tho i hear its not improving everywhere else by much except for upper NW like Portland and Washington. His doctor won't discuss anything with me ...specially after she accuse me of poisioning my own husband so think about that now...still wrestling with her to take his case seriously and last time i switch his physicians she stepped in and booted the other doc ...so having a tough time with that one lol...keep me in ur prayers but so far good to be drama free except for what goes on in my house...

Burned: Age is not a requirement for Hospice. Have you discussed it with his doctor? The doc would need to make a referral to volunteer hospice. Hospice would then contact you. I hope you can make some head way as it would be a help to you. About the wallet, have you looked in your car. You've probably looked everywhere. Just a thought.

OMG.... nothing brings out dysfunctionality out in a family then stress of caregiving.... I have 2 brothers and 1 sister. One brother is a gambler by occupation... after he tried swindling a deal where my sibs would be giving him $300 a month each, he moved in with her and paid no rent.... but to top it off spent all his time at the casinos so that when it came to laundry, moving lawn, car maintenance, etc... plus spending each and every evening with her as she was trying to cope with the loss of my father. I eventually asked her to move in with me... as an aside ... my brother is not giving me $300 per month! Now we have been coping with the maintenance of her house as we are trying to sell it in a down economy.... I am knee deep into something i never wanted to be in... my brother is no where to be found and my other brother and sister are supportive but is it enough??? My Mom just chooses to be Polly anna about my gambler brother and doesnt see the flaws.... I get it, it's her son... she shouldnt have to but in the meantime the resentment is mine...

omg i still feel like heck and not any better...now i caught my daughter's cold and i am taking some dayquil atm to help break it down. Prayers are helping but no luck on my wallet...just sucks watch i be clear of this thing and boom ill know where it is right of the bat which is how stuff usually works lol hanging in there and 2 morrow hubby has an appt and i have reschedule my daughters pta conference....lol just way too stressed and been looking for hospice volunteer so i can take a mini vacation but no such luck and he has to be a certain age to qualify so that puts me out of the loop...oh yeah taxes ....gotta find the darn agi lol....my brain has decided not to much heavy thinking....lol who knows trying to interject some humor...

Brandywine1949, Thank you for your response, this happens to me to.
I'll log on later, have to tend to my birdies right now. Margeaux

Another poem about "Letting Go". It is helping me face a situation I am facing today.

"Letting Go''

To "let go'' does not mean to stop caring.
It means I can't do it for someone else.
To "let go'' is not to cut myself off.
It's the realization I can't control another.
To "let go'' is not to enable,
but to allow learning from natural consequences.
To "let go'' is to admit powerlessness
which means the outcome is not in my hands.
To "let go'' is not to try to change or blame another.
It's to make the most of myself.
To "let go'' is not to care for, but to care about.
To "let go'' is not to fix, but to be supportive.
To "let go'' is not to judge,
but to allow another to be a human being.
To "let go'' is not to be in the middle arranging all the outcomes,
but to allow others to affect their own destinies.
To "let go'' is not to be protective.
It's to permit another to face reality.
To "let go'' is not to deny, but to accept.
To "let go'' is not to nag, scold, or argue,
but instead to search out my own shortcomings and correct them.
To "let go'' is not to criticize and regulate anybody,
but to try to become what I dream I can be.
To "let go'' is not to adjust everything to my desires
but to take each day as it comes and cherish myself in it.
To "let go'' is to not regret the past,
but to grow and live for the future.
To "let go'' is to fear less and LOVE MYSELF MORE. "

Here's to "Letting Go"!

brandy - a move would likely help, and cuold be a new start for you, but I know it costs.You are supportive, just by coming here.
Margeaux - I agree that mum will likely regress with losing her sister, and you can't expect too much from her. Expecting warm fuzzies from a narcissist is a lost cause, but some of us realise that sooner than others. Your sister must get frustrated trying to maintain control - I am glad you are out of that, and in charge of your own happiness.
Hi sballen -glad to see you back and hope things are going reasonably well at home
cmag - hope you have a good week.
austin - glad you have gained some tools - we can grow emotionally at any age, thankfully - to quote you - "now know I was not just a bad child as she wanted me to believe and finally got my power back that I had given to her all those years ago-and the power she had to hurt me-I can ignor." Amen to that!

the trick is to not get sucked into the games they need to play... which always hurt us.

hugs to all

cmag this is a good thread it has helped me very much with dealing with Mom-now I can approch her as a stronger person and now know I was not just a bad child as she wanted me to believe and finally got my power back that I had given to her all those years ago-and the power she had to hurt me-I can ignor. A little late in life but still important nonethe less-I thank you for talking about this subject and educating others about this personality-she is not going to change at 93 but she will not hurt me any longer.

Good morning. I'm glad to see this thread continues to be alive and well with support and encouragement for each other. Prayers, hugs, and love for all as each faces their individual trials in this another week of living!

Good Morning Everyone!
It's been a few weeks since I've been in touch but know that you're in my prayers daily. I am so grateful for this site.
May God continue to give us strength to face each day.

Actually I am with it but it came out wrong that I am not supportive. I definitely am supportive. Please just disregard that earlier statement. Best Wishes and Good night everyone.

What I meant was I am very supportive of everyone here, but I just don't post that b/c I am not completely with it. But yes, I am supportive of you guys. I just didn't word it right. You'd think I could word it correctly, since I am a wordsmith. It just didn't come out right. My apologies. I really like this site and everyone on it has my best regards.

Brandywine1949:

I'm rather curious about your statement, "I am not supportive of you guys."
Would you care to elaborate about this?

Emjo: Thanks for the definition of a "codependent." It certainly rings true in our family.
I called my sister to see how our mom w/ALZ-91 yrs. old is doing. It's just now up on 2 mos. that her 93 yr. old sister died, w/whom mother and sister lived. My mom was a narcissist while my sister and me were growing up. So emotionally we were quite neglected. Yes, there were the roles put into place early on. But at some point, I've decided for myself, that I didn't want to continue doing the codependent thing, or at least I try my best not to. So when I asked my sister the other day, how our mom was given the recent loss of her sister, sister tells me something like, "Well mom has gone back to the sleeping all of the time bit, tuning out." My mom way before the ALZ always new how to tune out, when she should have been majorly tuning in. So my sister and me feel a bit as if this is some very old behavior on her part, now given ALZ, and age, well what can one expect? Anyway, I could hear it in my sister's voice, the frustration, and I guess she's still somehow dreaming that our mom is going to miraculously step up to the plate and provide her with some kind of warm and fuzzy behavior, and bond w/her. By contrast, I gave up that thought a long time ago. So I just told my sister that under current circumstances we cannot really expect much out of my mom. Also, I pointed out the fact as to the meds she's on, also that she may have gone to the next step in the ALZ, given grief. But I realize in my sister's case her ongoing need to be codependent, and definitely she gets paranoid when she feels she's losing control of a situation.

In general, after having read some recent posts, it would be good for several of us to read about this. We can't be responsible for people's emotional happiness, hopefully we can be for our own.

I am thinking of temporarily moving away from this town so that I don't have to take care of Mom and get yelled at. But it is so costly to move away. I got to apologize that I am not supportive of you guys. I have a lot on my plate. I do read the posts. Hope you find your purse Burned. And yes I am co-dep.

Izzy, ((((((hugs))))) time to say "No!" It will help to relieve the anger and resentment you feel. No one can look after any one else's emotional needs - no one can make anyone else happy. It is your mum's narcissism which expects you to do this. It is your choice whether to try to or not. Everyone is responsible for their own happiness.

cattails - I am glad you are coming to terms with your sister. I am too and life is better for that. We each have our own time lines as to when we can do this.

burned - prayers for finding your wallet. Losing important stuff is so frustrating.

A little word about codependency for everyone - something we can so easily get drawn into in caregiving, especially a narcissist.

This definition is from Wikipedia:
Codependency (or codependence, co-narcissism or inverted narcissism) is unhealthy love and a tendency to behave in overly passive or excessively caretaking ways that harm one's relationships and quality of life. It also often involves placing a lower priority on one's own needs, while being excessively preoccupied with the needs of others.[1] Codependency can occur in any type of relationship, including family, work, friendship, and also romantic, peer or community relationships.[1] Codependency may also be characterized by denial, low self-esteem, excessive compliance, or control patterns.[1] Narcissists are considered to be natural magnets for the codependent.

I quote this because I have BTDT, got the t-shirt and am not going back. It is a terrible place to be, but possible to get out of, though it does not seem so at the time. In a dysfunctional family, some are groomed to becoming codependent, to meet the needs of others. Melodie Beattie has some good books on that subject - one being "Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself".

Yes, strangely enough, being codependent is controlling behaviour.

A quote of hers from another book “I used to spend so much time reacting and responding to everyone else that my life had no direction. Other people's lives, problems, and wants set the course for my life. Once I realized it was okay for me to think about and identify what I wanted, remarkable things began to take place in my life.”

Another quote from Robert Burney (Joy2MeU) - "Some of us (classic codependent behavior) tried to control through people pleasing, being a chameleon, wearing a mask, dancing to other people's tunes..."

I see a lot of codependent relationships on this site. Prayers for release from these bondages.
jo

cattails you are so right.. we need just let go of being angry at these family members that are so very selfish.. Like you I do know that my sisters have issues as to why they cannot physically help me with my mom.. but emotional support would be also welcome.. They could call and talk to her.. She gets lonely and I get so tired of being her everything.. I would welcome any type of a break even her to ramble all the daily drama to one of them on the phone.. But even that they want no part of.. But my mom will call them and act like a completely different person with them on the phone.. she shows them none of the actions I get.. That is when I get so pissed.. They have a "short and sweet" type of conversation.. and when I over hear her hang up with an "I Love You", I think are you kidding me??.. It feels like a slap in the face..

Arrangements are being made for my son to go to mayo.. and this will be a week (or more) trip.. so it looks like I have to take my mom with.. Im not looking forward to this.. hopefully the hotel will be close because I will spend the day going from mayo to the hotel.. back and forth..

There are times I feel somewhat guilty for even feeling this way, and yet I dont even know what Im feeling.. is it resentment.. is it anger?? I dont know.. But I do know when my mom was my age she had her life.. she worked..she went out with friends.. she ran her house as she wanted..she never had to "take care" of anyone but her favorite daughter (and it wasn't me).. And my life now is completely opposite.. everything I do I have to consider her..her health issues..her feelings.. even things in my home are now so different then the way I like them to be..she will say "Is it ok if I move this here or put that there".. and she knows I would never say no.. I so often think "you had your time..this is mine".. Im sure this is an extremely selfish thought for me to even have.. right?? .. I miss the days when it was just me and my family.. especially now that my son needs me I find myself feeling these feelings even stronger.. I cant make her life over now and yet I feel it is up to me to not only care for her health needs but also her emotional needs.. Ive tried to find her hobbies.. well she likes nothing but planting flowers and Ive tried to tell her that she needs to accept that her life has changed now she can no longer be out in the heat planting flowers.. That is when an arguement starts.. she will not accept she is 83 with health issues.. Even her Dr. tried to explain this to her.. She is now looking for a different Dr.. This is when she reminds me of a "spoiled bratty child"..

My prayers are with us all today and everyday..

Burned: How is your husband doing?

Burned: By the way, did you ever check into volunteer hospice?

Burned, I am praying that you find your wallet and that your little girl gets over her ear infection. It would be nice if our families would be there for us, but if they won't then we need to accept that they are lacking and we can't change that.

My sister was supposed to be here during the holidays to see my dad and give me a break. She never came and she never told me she wasn't able too. She just chose not to talk about it. Then she said she would be here during Spring break, she has the week off as she works for the school system. I talked to her today, Spring break starts Monday and she isn't coming. She didn't tell me she isn't coming, but I know she isn't. I could get angry with her, but she has little money and she loves to avoid the fact that she doesn't come through.

I've started taking a depression medication that is really good for anxiety. It helps me to not rip my sister's face off. It is what it is, Burned. It may not be fair, but it's reality and I can't change it. So, I am trying to take care of myself and give my dad the best care I can. That's all I can do. Love and Hugs to you, Cattails.