The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

trying to catch up a bit here =

sharyn -winter doldrums here too. How cute that L is wearing a patch too. Hope you had a good birthday dinner with hubs.

dori - my mother is past skyping or anything like that. Glad you are communicating with those that are good for you. Hope the Indian buffet was great. Re your mum and smoking. She has Alz so her brain is broken to a degree. I know, I know, she respects the aides, but you are there more. Leaving the room may help you breath better at the moment, but her apartment is saturated with 2nd and 3rd hand smoke all of which is toxic to you. Personally, and I am an ex smoker of many years now, I would not spend time anywhere where there was smoking. It is bad for your health. I don't think you can expect that she will easily agree to going to a facility, but many have negotiated that regardless. Dementia definitely does not cancel out addictive behaviours, it may exacerbate them. I think you have a mixture.

moose -amen! Blood may be physically thicker than water but so what? Chosen family is much better. Popcorn is a great snack!

cmag -you are gong through a lot. It looks like mil is near the end of her journey.I am sure the twins are upset, but mil's QOL is pretty minimal. Take care of yourself. Glad you are seeing the end of two mortgages.

glad - you know all about manipulation with money! Turning off the brain switch isn't always easy.

smeshque - who says everyone has it harder than you. No one is walking in your shoes. If you need to vent -go for it. We won't compare.

cm - I agree there is no compromise with smoking, but banning mother to her room does not protect dori from the effects of the toxins either. They are throughout the apartment by now.

Better start a new post!

Honestly, while it is sad that MIL died, she will no longer be able to manipulate her girls with the will anymore. This is going to be harder on my SIL for she was more enmeshed with her mother than my wife was.

It is going to take a while to settle this estate. According to my SIL the Will calls for all of the land and the houses plus the duplex to be sold and the funds placed into a trust fund which will give each twin money each month with SIL getting more. 

CMagnum,
It happens!
Just when you need medicine the most, the stress gets worse and no meds! Whether forgetting, too stressed to get them refilled, or just did not do it.......! Yes, it happens.

For future reference, I don't think the pills have very many calories, lol.

Happy to hear that you are back on track.

So sorry about Mil.

Hi everyone,

My night and a day of eating my diet food plus other food like crazy is over. I'm back on my diet now. I'm also back on my meds that I missed taking during that stressed out spell.

Today, I have learned that MIL has rejected being fed by IV and her oxygen mask. She said that if she can't eat and drink then she wants to go ahead and die. So, they are letting her die. This has upset the twins greatly and I need to get up there soon for my wife. I'm glad that I already ordered our diet food early and they have already told me that they will have it ready tomorrow instead of Tuesday.

I'll reschedule appointments in the morning. I've sent a text to our real estate agent that this may hold up closing on our old house on Friday. I'll also need to board two cats one of which has not gotten use to me since she is rather new.

Take care everyone!

Dori, I played online games a bit during caregiving to relax and amuse myself. I think it helped! I didn't play many games before caregiving years and haven't played many since, but it was pleasant distraction for my brain when I needed it. Smashing things? Even better. haha I slammed some doors so hard and repeatedly that I had to have them repaired. Welp. You vent how you vent, you deal with it how you deal with it.

50sChild, don't be too hard on yourself for not handling your deep well of hurt with the gracious ease we perceive of others... from a distance. Happy you're here and posting about it. That's always helpful, just to get it out "on paper."

Hi, all of you. Things are relatively quiet for me lately and I have to remind myself not to cause any chaos just because I'm bored and used to the dysfunction. ;-) Thyroid meds are definitely doing something because I'm feeling better and more alive. I still don't sleep well but... one thing at a time. It's enough for right now that I'm feeling better, more consistent with each day, on a decent schedule even if I don't feel GREAT, I do feel... fine. Just fine. :-) YAY!!!

Sharyn, I was able to quit my 20 year smoking habit around 2013 when I was very sick, and my dad was diagnosed with COPD and he wouldn't quit smoking, he used me as an excuse to continue since I smoked, too.  I wasn't able to quit "cold turkey" but I did keep trying and somehow, someway, over a few months I quit.  I still give myself permission to have one now and again if I want one.  The most encouraging advice I could give to you or anyone about quitting is -- once you've made it through the hell that is quitting, then you're rid of this expensive, dirty habit that hurts your health.  There's a light at the end of the tunnel -- that's what I'm trying to say!  If you can manage to quit, then you're free of the addictive cycle, no more mess, no more expense.  I used that goal of being a non-smoker, and what that represented to me, as motivation.  When you're ready, you'll do it.  And if you're never ready, that doesn't make you a lesser person. :-)  

Excellent Golden. Hope having R home will help you relax and heal.
more work though but I guess you can't have it both ways.

Great news Golden!! Restful sleep

golden - Yay!!!! Awesome news on the job! Is that the one in Kelowna?

I had a spat with mom when I went over to check on her. A spat which involved me telling her I can't do everything she expects of me, and that she needs to be in a nursing home. And her saying she doesn't want to go in a home because you die in homes. And then I said you can die anywhere, you can die here, or you can die in a car crash. And then she said thanks a lot.  Not the best way that conversation could have gone, but I was not in the best frame of mind when I got there and found the mess she'd made.

I guess I understand her fear from that perspective, and maybe that's a lot of people's fear....but do people really think they won't die if they don't go into care homes?

Sigh.

I just drank an entire glass of Baileys. Not my usual coping mechanism, but jeez. I've been so tense this week.

I also sprang for a $25 Google Play card at the drug store on my way back here, so I can buy some Angry Birds power-ups and smash things to smithereens.  Possibly a better coping mechanism. 

That is great Golden! Rest and sleep well.

Just checking in. Will post more and to other posts tomorrow, hopefully.

The good news is R got the job and started this week. Thanks for prayers for anyone who did.

The bad news is I am fatigued and a bit flu-y again, stuffed nose etc. but getting better, and not used to the extra activity in the house and meal prep, but I will get there.

We are happy to be together more and Mexico is on the bucket list.

Weather is slowly improving, but probably will not get above freezing till sometime in March.

Bedtime - g'nite all!!!

Sharyn - So true and it's funny, I think the smell might seem even worse to someone who's quit! Being on both sides of it now....

More tomorrow. At my place. Belly very full of delicious Thai stir fry I didn't get to make till 8:30. Just about to climb into bed. This week has exhausted me....and the cats too, judging by the huge naps they've taken tonight. Sweet dreams everyone!

Dori, I didn’t take  it you had something against smoking. Just saying smoking inside stinks up the house and the smoke and nicotine gets on furniture, walls and is a constant cleaning battle. I didn’t realize how bad it was on our wood furniture until we got ready to move. It took several cleanings to remove and honestly, I’m not sure it ever completely comes off. It’s too bad your mom won’t go outside to smoke. I have cut back 50% by smoking outside.

50sChild,

I went to where my wife is on Tuesday and came back yesterday so that she could have her diet food on Tuesday and we could have some time on Valentines.

My wife's sister is her twin. We don't have twins. Years ago, I did have some heart to heart conversations including some books to point out some things about her mother which gave her some intellectual insights that I think failed to reach her gut. My wife spent years in therapy trying to get more freedom from her mom. She is more free than her identical twin sister is. My MIL tormented me and my wife when we were dating and throughout out marriage. We had to set up some boundaries with her to save ourselves. My wife's therapist says that MIL is a narcissist. Maybe so, but my reading has led me to believe that she is in the category of queen/witch borderline mother which is so well described in Understanding the Borderline Mother. Her late husband was beyond henpecked. He was enslaved. She had him convinced that his wedding vows said that he promised to obey her. Poor man. I got blamed for having a bad influence on him for toward the end of his life he actually stood up for himself a few times. This has been like a family version of Star Wars with the biggest struggle being keeping SIL from going over to the dark side and keeping my wife away from it.

My writing here is helping me detox from this drama that began a week ago with our late night four hour drive to where her mother and sister live. Her sister thought their mom was at death's door then.

Cmagnum, Thank you! I am in awe that you wrote quickly given all going on. Your MIL sounds like an Emotional Vampire. I cannot begin to imagine what you and your wife have gone through, and are facing. The vampires can't help it. And you are biologically leveraged throughout their reign. You have done incredible work, getting you, you wife, your twins, and a lot of us out here through. I cannot imagine the brain twisting "prayers" and "wishes" your MIL has tormented you with. So my partner, who has stood by me almost 40 years. May your twins know you are next to God to them.

50schild,,

I found the thread that I was looking for.

Have your parents attempted to manipulate you as a caregiver using their own spin on Christian teaching?

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/parents-manipulate-you-as-a-caregiver-176024.htm

50schild,

Thank you for the compliment!

I started a thread somewhere on here about parents using religion to manipulate their children and why that is wrong. I don't remember the exact name of that thread.

Here's something that I posted on another thread about a question about this issue.

"Lately, I have been thinking about Jesus' call to self-denial and have come to the following conclusions.

Jesus' call to self-denial is about denying selfishness, but not a denial of the very individual self that God made us to be in his image.

Jesus' call to self-denial does not mean emotional, financial, physical or social self-destruction. It's about saying yes to the will of God and no to our own will.

Jesus' call to self-denial is not the absence of fun, creature comforts, low self-esteem, running yourself down, not laughing or never rejoicing in the good that you have accomplished. It is a call to renounce ungodliness and to live a godly life.

Jesus' call to self-denial is not crucifying yourself on your own altar which leads to glory in your sacrifice. Instead, it means dying to self to allow more of God. "

I am having quite a fight since last night with wanting to eat more with the stress that I currently feel. I've not eaten the wrong foods, just too much of the right foods both last night and today. From what my wife told me on the phone today, her mother now has an oxygen mask on and her oxygen is still low. The doctor is coming in tonight to give his opinion about the situation. MIL has not had a positive impact on the lives of her twin daughters whom she'd rather have all to herself if us son's in law would not exist. My wife has spent years in therapy getting some freedom from being so enmeshed with her mother which her twin sister still is. I am a bit surprised how stressed I feel over this and it is not even my problem. I have plenty of good things taking place this week for me and my wife to focus on like closing on the sale of our old house which will free up some money!

It takes everything I have to just jump in and try to sound at ease with the struggles all of you so seemingly-light-bendingly come to terms with each day. With humor!?

TOBACCO STRUGGLE$S: I absolutely hated my [undiagnosed BPD/Malignant Narcissist, Beloved] Mother’s addiction to Tobacco. Between that and how she handled my sister’s rape, my brother’s suicide, how she handled conflict, and how she treated my father (from my innocent point of view) – I severed. Yea, right, “You had to.” Thousands of miles. Careful boundaries. Perfectly ok response I have nightmares over to this day.

As I sat with her, Morphine-relaxed, as she died (65-pounds and I didn’t even know because she so believed in masking any discomfort and dressing accordingly), I asked her, “Mom, why do you smoke?” Her answer: “It kind’a relaxes me” (in her Russian intonation).

That was just a few hours before she died. I was mortified, stunned, to hear that Tobacco meant anything other than tormenting others. Something I held against her all my life – turns out it just “relaxed her.” I blew at myself, “Why didn’t I know?” All the pieces of the puzzle were there. From her mentally ill wisdoms: 1. “Never ever use the word “I” in a conversation. 2. You, Miss Veredevere, have no idea of the benefits you have. 3. Wink, smile, joke. 4. “I’m setting the house on fire.” 5. Your brother was an angel [he abused me and yet I have such sorrow for his lost soul].” 6. “We wanted a better life for you.” 7. “I’m leaving (throwing tons of dishes) and you all can go to hell.” Yea Mom, after I struggled for 30 years and you disinherited me and told me I was worthless every time I flew to your house twice a year for two weeks at a time, while managing my declining father’s finances, while pretending all had not changed since you were 25 – yea, I get you wanted a better life, for "me."

But sadly I also get that you were afflicted. I now know why, maybe? WWII. Husband lobotomized. I never had kids. You did. You also had a husband that broke down after having occupied Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and you kept him going in that engineer’s job. Yea Mom, I didn’t have a clue. I forgive you, how I wish I was 60 when I was 30.

Now I’ve gone back to g$%@ therapy, again, so sick of having to do that. Because my sister and beloved partner, are declining. I’m not sure I can face it.

GOLDEN: GO TO MEXICO, please. Blame it on me. Do it for me. People who do better than me make me so mad because they are so well adjusted they can balance things. I can’t. So please GO TO MEXICO for the likes of us. Tell us how it feels, in real emotional detail. Tell us about the looks in your husband’s eyes. Tell us about the pain you feel about it, the abandonment, the snuffing out of your mother’s need for you. Please, ok? Do it for America, as we face what we are facing. After so many needless youthful deaths. Do it to let others know how it feels to reach for breaking away. You will keep the rest of us going. And maybe each of us could make the same promise?

New Person (Sorry I’m writing my draft outside of Aging Care and don’t remember I think it was Kbuse) – I am not a good poster, and I am certainly not the kind of poster that gives stability. But I welcome you. You made my day with what you shared.

I am ashamed for writing all this. So please someone speak to shame. My poor Dad, 96, I can’t even bring myself to phone him. It’s beyond anger. It’s beyond, “Just do it, you’ll feel better.” I feel done. I feel I’ve taken a fairy flight away from the Titanic and I’m leaving struggling souls behind. I love him. I am frozen. He's fine in care. I just am not there.

MAGNUM: Thank you, too, for starting this discussion group. I have been searching Aging Care AND the Internet for that huge list of Bible quotes you had shared regarding how the Bible did not mean for caregivers to sacrifice their own lives. My parents were not religious, yet, religion crept in (grandparents were Anabaptists and Russian Orthodox). Poor souls could not help their torments. If I wasn’t dreaming when I read your Biblical Quotes, I would sure appreciate some key words to search on Aging Care for your what you compiled, which has helped me so much. Also Magnum, your struggles are so timely as my 260-pound, 4 foot eleven sister is desperately trying to lose weight to save her life, before scoliosis surgery, with severe Rheumatoid “Arthritis” and severe Asthma from Mom’s smoking (she was the Good One who had a family and kept visiting Mom). Sis’s ManBoys are in their 30s, living with her, and abusing her. Magnum, any Biblical anything (she married a Russian Orthodox) – greatly appreciated. But I also know that you may not have time or energy for this. Magnum, I would rather just send you very deep appreciation that you are saving your soul and yourself. You have touched me (and others) more than you can know.

I feel so selfish to be posting. I feel so bad I can’t post useful things to others. This is way too long, but anyone who can stomach reading, thank you.

cwillie - Lol I've just edited that last post to add that I've bought her Nicorette and she doesn't need it. Your reasoning does make sense. Maybe a combination of a talking to from the doctor AND the vape might work.

It is the mindlessness of her smoking and your comment that she doesn't even crave the nicotine that made me think an e cigarette might be a good fit, it sounds as though it is more going through the motions than the actual need to smoke. But whatever, you know best whether or not it would be worth the effort.🤗

cwillie - Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore your post. I just had trouble posting. I just don't see her making the vape work. She's been smoking since she was 15 or something, maybe younger. Back in the '50s when it was cool and authority-defying. I did think about it. And I've offered her my Nicorette for when she's stuck in dialysis and can't smoke.  She doesn't even seem to want the nicotine, she wants the cigarette.   

Sharyn - I'm so not against smoking, I swear. It's this demented chain-smoking that's killing me. More literally, maybe killing my cats, because their bodies are tiny.

(((((Kbuser)))))

Ok so I got this idea in the car that.....I need to go see my doctor anyway. Who's also mom's doctor, because she offered to be mom's GP on the grounds that it would be better for my anxiety if my mom moved here. (Lol.)

And I was thinking maybe she'll conspire with me, to tell mom she needs to cut back on her smoking. Mom would do it if a doctor told her. Plus then I'd have reinforcement. Like I have the threat of calling the ambulance if mom refuses to go to dialysis. (Boy, did THAT embarrass her. Plus it cost her $80.) And I think our doctor would go along with it, if I told her the effect it's having on me, plus it's good doctor ethics anyway, right, to tell your patients to smoke less or not at all?

She'd probably want to tell mom to quit, actually - I've quit 3 times now under her care (true), and she's always encouraged it. But I don't think making mom quit is fair either. I don't think she could, plus how much stress would that put on her body? I can live with SOME smoking. The CONSTANT smoking is going to kill me.

Sorry to go on and on about this. I'm just....ugh, it's been one of those weeks, you know? Mom's been pretty hellish in general, and letting her take a "sick" day did the opposite of "help" with the chain smoking problem. (And by "sick" I mean she refuses to eat anything but cottage cheese all day, and then gets "diarrhea" overnight, and then protests she's too "sick" to go to dialysis. I'm not buying any more effing cottage cheese.)

Mom's so loony this week, I was almost thinking maybe I should stay with her this weekend. THEN I thought if I don't go home tonight, I might catch the crazy.

Re smoking in the house. I did while still in California. Hubs quit 3 years ago but I haven’t.....yes, I know shame on me. I only smoke on the patio or on the front porch when it is windy. I don’t want the smoke residue on the furniture and walls. It is so hard to keep clean.

Kbuser, so sorry your brother is bullying you over finances. It is a common issue with siblings. You will get support here especially those who have dealt with this issue. You may want to seek advice from an elder law attorney. Welcome to the thread and continue to post.

Dorianne, I've read a lot about people switching to vaping as a way to cut down on 2nd hand smoke and to decrease the fire risks associated with older smokers, have you looked in to this and do you think your mom might be willing to give it a trial?

So glad I found this site! I have been caregiving full time for my 88 year old mom with Parkinson's for a little over a year. Had to quit my job to care for her, hiring in-home care was too expensive and she's not real social so strangers in the home would be hard for her.

I have two brothers and a sister who are very absentee, except to bully and criticize me for not working (You don't do anything all day. You're living off mom). They have no idea how stressful it is to deal with her diapers every day, wash her sheets all the time and monitor and give her her meds every three hours. I never get even a full day off. I have hired an agency to get out a little each week, but it really isn't enough.

Now my brother is fighting me over her financial POA. He wants control of her finances even though he's never around. I think I'll need to get a mediator to settle it.

It's just hard to cope with the siblings, I try to not let them get to me but lately it's been very difficult.

Hey CM....I totally appreciate that. Most of my friends smoke (how do you meet friends/socialize these days? In the smoking areas!), so I'm pretty liberal about people smoking around me.  It doesn't even bother me a whole lot. 

It's not mom's smoking so much as the compulsive CHAIN smoking. Mom will literally sit there and smoke one after another. Sometimes she'll start to light another when she already has one going. And usually only while watching the TV. It's like the TV puts her in a trance state, and then she's off to the races! It reminds me of someone who's intoxicated, just drinking another glass, and another glass, not even aware anymore of what they're doing.   Sometimes she says she doesn't even WANT to smoke.  But she can't seem to help the compulsion to do it.  (She's smoked all her adult life, except when she was pregnant with us.)

And when she's chain smoking, then I can't breathe.  And the smell, when she's been shut up in here for days....gag! 

And I would blame it on dementia except that it's addiction behaviour to a T.  If she were a gambler instead she'd be broke by now. Especially HER addiction behaviour. Right down to the nasty side of her. Maybe it's both, but I don't think the dementia cancels out the addiction behaviour. 

When mom agreed to move up here, she couldn't travel because of the dialysis. So I went around shooting video of all the options, and then did video of the tours. She HAD to have THIS apartment. Despite the fact that the entire property is Non-Smoking, and there were lots of other options. She SWORE she would go down to the street level and smoke. Well, she hadn't moved in 6 hours when I came over and caught her smoking in her bedroom. She thought - probably still thinks - no one else can smell it as long as she sprays Febreeze. Hah!

I used to remind her there are huge fines for smoking, but none have come. Either the building is super well-ventilated, or they're turning a blind eye to it. The building is part rental, part strata, so maybe it's just that no one knows who to complain to! Anyway, after I confined her to smoking in the living room - yes, for safety - I taught her how to stuff a towel under the front door to at least keep the smell in the hallway down to a dull roar. (Remembrances of my pot smoking days!) I figured I couldn't stop her, so....at least keep her out of trouble.

So I admit to being totally complicit in some ways.

But it's really not the smoking, it's the chain smoking. And I think that only happened because I confined her to smoking in the living room (in front of the TV). But I can't let her smoke in the bedroom, I just can't. I fear for the building going up in flames, and it's not just me and her at risk.

*sigh* I really don't know what to do about it.

Mmm.

I don't think there is any compromise achievable on smoking.

I remember - do I? - that mother is banned from smoking in her bedroom; and yes, fire hazard and all that, I can quite see why. But if she can't smoke in her own room, and it isn't fair for her to smoke in your shared living room... anywhere else she can go? Balcony, den, study?

When you have been smoking companions with someone and that person successfully gives up, you can think one of two things: 1. Good for you! 2. Traitor.

You can think both at the same time, of course.

One of my daughters smokes and the other doesn't. If the one gave up, I would *never* even take cigarettes out in her presence, I should be delighted. But then again, I don't smoke in the house nowadays, either (can't, it's in the lease). Perhaps I'm less committed than your mother?

During my non-smoking periods (pre- and pregnancy, nursing) I was a monster to anyone who came anywhere near me with a lit ciggy. Mind you, one of them was my husband, a doctor, who only smoked when he was on vacation and flatly refused not to - can you believe it? Tchah. One of our franker exchanges of views.

There is no compromise. Leave the room if she smokes, any time she does. It's not right. It's just not *done* to smoke in front of quitters, not in any modern smokers' etiquette handbook.

I woke up super early (for me), around 5 (thanks, menopause), and thought I'd enjoy the quiet emptiness of the main living area. Sure enough, out came mom 15 minutes later. She immediately started chain smoking. And of course, immediately destroyed the quiet by flipping on the TV.  And since she can't work the remote properly, she ended up watching a PVRed month-old morning news show. The whole time saying, "I'm going back to bed."

After a bit, I said, "I thought you were going back to bed." "I will," she said, lighting yet another cigarette. "You just finished one," I said. She just ignored me and kept lighting cigarettes - ignoring my coughing and that I was covering my nose and mouth with my hands. Finally, I'd had enough. I picked up the remote and turned off the TV. I said, "Ok, time to go back to bed." That set off the nasty, I'm afraid. "Why did you turn it off?" "Because it's a month-old news show."  "Well, so WHAT?" she snapped, in that really nasty tone of voice. "You're using it as an excuse to sit here and chain smoke, and I can't breathe." WELL. That REALLY got her ranting at me.  Totally dismissive of my issues with the smoke, and totally effing NASTY. 

God, I HATE that side of her, that nasty, nasty.....I saw a woman on Dr. Phil* the other day, who acted and spoke in a similar way. He had some "expert" on who diagnosed the woman as being emotionally stunted, "emotionally 13 years old". That's my mom, in a nutshell. Emotionally 13 years old.  I'm starting to be able to let it bounce off me in the moment....thank god I have this forum to get it out, or I'd probably go off my nut.  But ARGGH!!! I just want to SLAP her when she gets like that. And it's a good thing I am not inclined towards violence, but MAN. That nasty side of her really is an emotional 13-year old. Just like when she was drinking, only we get to blame it on dementia now.

* I feel obliged to note that I don't normally watch Dr. Phil, and most times I think he's kind of a quack....but I happened to have it on in the background that day when mom was at dialysis.

She has ZERO respect for me having quit smoking, ZERO respect for my health, ZERO respect that I already had one cat die of cancer from second-hand smoke, only a year ago. She doesn't care, not one little bit. I know, or I'm supposed to know, that her brain is broken. But I don't effing CARE. Her brain can be broken AND she can also be a gross, selfish little addict who doesn't give a sh** about me, or the animals. She's totally aware of what she's doing, it's not like she's in la la land when she does this.  And I know it's that it's just me (and the animals, because she doesn't even understand animals, let alone respect them) she doesn't care about, because she absolutely WILL respect the home support workers when they remind her not to smoke in front of them. She'll be careful NOT to smoke if I have a non-smoking friend over - I don't even have to say anything. But no respect for me, nosiree.  And I can't even open a window because she's always cold and gets whiny about that, and will just up and close it anyway.  She doesn't care if she poisons me to death. She never did.

/end rant

Can co-dependency apply to smoking as well?  Because I think I am finally shaking off some kind of smoking co-dependency, and I think she really doesn't like it....I think that's what sets off the nasty.  Seems like the only thing we fight over anymore is her bloody chain smoking.

Dorianne and all who give me the best support evah! {great hug}. You're lifesavers.

In catching up on this thread this morning and reading about others' better diets I decided to splurge on a hot air popcorn maker and channel my nervous energy into popcorn. It's usually 1-2 boxes of Ding Dongs, though I do try to ration them to 2-3 a day. Money's very tight for me, but the popcorn makers are cheap and switching to plain popcorn (with occasional drizzled melted caramel and chocolate for special times) will be good for me. Thank you all!

Dorianne,

Thanks, I'm glad that you have found this site and this thread to be helpful. It amazes me how this thread just keeps on going now for 6 years! That means it is speaking to a major need.