The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

Ugh...sexism. I was raised with a Dad who firmly believed women were put here to obey and serve, he is a gentle, man but very sexist. He told me as a teen that men are superior to women in every way, not very helpful to my or my sisters self esteem.
Dad does not hate women but he does not consider them equal. Mom on the other hand is a borderline misandrist (hater of men). She believes men are incompetent deadbeats that women have to put up with. She thinks women are superior to men, not very helpful to my brothers self esteem.

Needless to say my parents marriage became a monumental battle of wills which they continue to this day. They were terrible role models for relationships

I didn't buy either of their opinions and thought they were both idiots in that regard. I ended up reacting badly to both dominant men and women who play victim. I have no patience for either one.

thx all for the support. I will be pursuing it via a meeting, if they will arrange that. R had good suggestions re questions.

sharyn - glad your dd is happy to have you there too and not just as a support for the boys. I am sure you two can have some good times together.

tg - you have a fairly typical dysfun fam. No fun is it? It means you have to take extraordinary measures to look after your own interests, and not cater to the narcissists.

rainey - thx it only happened once. I won't go ballistic, at least at first, as I don't think it will achieve what I want to achieve. I will pursue the correct channels - works best usually. This ALF has been very good for mother. Re therapy and families - you can only change yourself ever.

cm - mother decided to move close to me for several reasons, one being that, indeed, my sister would not help her. Sis came for vacations with mother and sat and expected to be waited on. The main reason, I believe, was that mother saw that sis had $$$ signs in her eyes (mother's phrase) when mother went over her portfolio with sis. I think that was the deciding factor. Sis wanted mother with her, also, as it was a form of "winning" and showing me and the world that mother preferred her. I truly believe sis wanted her there, and was as shocked as I was at mother's decision to move close to me. Sis wants control! That may sound familiar to some of you.

Sexism is still alive and well. I was fortunate in that mother, perhaps due to her Norwegian heritage, always thought girls could do as well as boys at whatever. Despite the dysfunctionality of our family, I was brought up to believe in my abilities, and that obstacles of any kind were to be overcome. There was no consideration of female roles vs male roles.

On that note, I have to share that willowy, slender dd can deadlift 170 lbs. She posted on fb an image about "that moment in the gym when you realise you are lifting more weight than the guy next to you." As I said - sexism is alive and well.

Have a great day everyone and be good to you. You are worth it.

Actually, no I wasn't being harder on my mother. It's just my father is dead. You looked for something that wasn't there.

Women can be deeply misogynistic, that is true, and I always find rather pitiable. But when it comes to misogyny embedded within default, reflex thinking they have nothing on perfectly fair-minded, naturally behaving men. Ask any occupational psychologist about unconscious bias.

The good news is that when even averagely nice people are made aware of their own unconscious bias they are often horrified and embarrassed and do their best to correct it. And I also think that the important thing is not to get angry or vengeful or sore about it when it happens to you, but to recognise the reality you happen to be dealing with and work round it.

But I'm talking about workplace and social situations; and "working round" dysfunction in families isn't so easy. It hits you in your tenderest places.

This is interesting. You realise you're doing it yourself, no? You're blaming your mother much more for her attitude than you are your father for his paternal (and no doubt marital) inadequacies. Why do her anger and bitterness make her more culpable than his detachment does him? Did she ask for those emotions any more than he wanted his brain wired that way?

I have been made very angry by sexism, and I'm not always the sweetest natured person in the room so once or twice... I may have ripped people's heads off unfairly. Well! - no, not unfairly. But disproportionately. There was a kids' fencing competition I was at where a young American girl was doing brilliantly. The head coach of another team, a big cheese in our little world, was all smiles about it until she started beating his boys. Then all of a sudden he went to the organisers and said it was a Boys' competition, it wasn't fair, clearly they were being inhibited, and she should be disqualified.

Fencing is a funny old sport: except at elite levels, the sexes can and do compete on more or less equal terms. The organisers of this competition weren't happy with his complaint, but because she was the only girl in her age group, and because they hadn't specified beforehand that it was open to both sexes, he got his way. At the prize giving at the end she was given her own medal by the odious coach himself and she accepted it with good grace, but I'm afraid I didn't. Red mist came down, I barged on to the stage and said I hoped he was going to announce as well that she had won every one of her pool fights and would have been seeded high in the knockout rounds had she not been forced to "retire." He stammered that of course, he'd just been about to, but he didn't look me in the eye.

It was his reasons that offended me even more than the individual unfairness. His main argument besides the technicality was that it wasn't good for the boys to lose to girls, it was humiliating and discouraging for them. Excuse me. This is unsporting anyway, but in fencing, as in life, it's an outrageous attitude. I can't put it better than one of the referees - a former international men's epee specialist - did when a young lad was getting upset about my daughter's friend beating him: "you respect your opponent. En garde."

And the other time was when my best friend's youngest of her three sons, age six or seven, continuously referred to my daughters as 'the girls' instead of by their names. Wasn't even his fault, that's what my friend tended to do too, but I felt a lesson was in order. I backed him into a corner, towered over him, and demanded he identify them by name. Which he did, promptly, but perplexed by my anger. I can't claim I'm proud of frightening a six year old but he hasn't done it again. Or not in my hearing, anyway.

My father would have been most happy if there had been no children. He had Asperger's and was totally cut off from his children emotionally. My mother wasn't much better. She was so full of anger and nerves. They really didn't either one need to be raising children.

When I look around in the world I see that women are also the most misogynist of the genders. I think my mother took it to the extremes at times. My brothers got clothes and cars when they were teens. I had to babysit and buy myself some things to wear. Parents paid for their schooling. I had to work and pay for my own. This sounds a bit like poor me. I guess it is feeling sorry for what I had to go through when I was a teenager. I always felt like it was my fault that no one in the family seemed to love me. I didn't realize at the time that no one in the family loved each other.

In the world I see that women are very hard on other women. There is so much competition. I see how many women claw at some women for being beautiful and how they claw at powerful women for being successful. Of course, they also poke fun at ugly and failure. We can't blame men for that. I don't understand why women can be that way. I guess it is just human nature.

But here I am taking care of the person who doesn't think I'm very worthy. I know I'm not alone in the way I'm feeling, because of how human nature is. Many mothers do stand on the necks of their daughters as they are growing, maybe through jealousy or just not thinking they are worth as much as the sons. Maybe they feel better about themselves thinking that they are more man than woman. How sad is that?

JessieBelle, my mother always took it as a huge compliment that her father once commented "L drives like a man."

H'm. That's a good thing, is it? I know! - let's ask the insurance companies.

The thing is. We tend to comfort ourselves that sex equality is a generational, progressive phenomenon and things will steadily improve. I think this is a) not true, or at least only half-true and b) unhelpful.

Deference to male opinion - when it's inappropriate, because it isn't always, because there just are more men in positions in life that require the greatest, rarest knowledge and insight, if only because they are freer to get there - anyway, that deference has its being as much as ever.

I base my belief partly on that, for example, we all know women, our friends and peers, who are still at it. The ones whose opinions will eerily mirror those of her father/brother/boyfriend/husband/son according to her stage in life, or according to which she was listening to most recently; who b*tch endlessly about their female bosses but would take a bullet for the male ones; who vote.... unexpectedly, shall we say; who only get in touch when their relationships are going badly. Sigh. You can love them all the same (I do), but you can't count on them and you can't change them, it's too late.

And the other reason I believe not much has changed is that there always were women who said "bollocks to that, I'm not having it" and let nothing stand in their way. Always. In every millennium, and every civilisation. And some of them, though sadly not all, were pro other women too. We just need to give our daughters the right role models. AND our sons, just as important.

I put it down to poor fathering, somewhere along the line. How else could your mother have come to believe that men aren't really interested in their children?

I got sidetracked and completely forgot what I meant to say.

That admission by your mother that she needed you, which is what it boiled down to. I must be getting very cynical in my old age, because my first thought was to tip my hat to your sister and say "oh, well played."

She longed to take on the burden. She was ready and able, she'd made plans. But because of your controlling behaviour and your mother's cruel rejection, alas the decision was snatched out of her hands. Poor Sister. Such noble intentions, so misunderstood and traduced. And gets away scot free to boot.

Very neat.

Golden, gnash gnash! - re the drug foul up.

They probably didn't call you earlier because they didn't notice until yesterday. I expect somebody was reviewing her notes, maybe while scheduling in the next dose.

I hate it when doctors stab in the dark at what to do. They must call the drug manufacturer and ask: these are the people who will actually have the correct answer, because they'll have anticipated the possibility during trials. More happily, the data sheet says "...risperidone toxicity manifests primarily as mild central nervous system effects and reversible neuromuscular and cardiovascular effects." But they must ask anyway, because there are too many variables - age, weight, the modified release formulation.

And yes, absolutely, they had better explain how they managed this particular feat. Grrr.

Golden,
Jeeez, you spend a fortune on those ALF's and you have to worry about them ODing her?!?!?! Not once but twice! Unbelievable! I would go ballistic on em! Now you get the compounded worry of what will they screw up next. How comforting! I think everyone's brains are up their keysters these days. The level of unprofessionalism, of detachment is unprecedented to me.

Jessie, I can relate, Mom always has put more faith and credence in what men have to say vs anything I try to tell her. Even when I am proved right by her doctors, it doesn't ever stick. It is very insulting and annoying. I think it is a generational thing but I don't blame you for getting upset by that statement she made. I'd be upset too.
Hmmmm, therapists? I understand the desire to do so but I have never had a lot of luck with them, just lots of $$$ spent and it doesn't change anything, only how you decide to handle it. Dealing with the feelings of betrayal, from parent and family, that just doesn't go away, you get submersed in it over and over so you don't get a real chance to move past it. Does that make sense? Short of you completely walking away, never dealing with it again is the only way to have time enough to really heal and put things into proper context. Just my two cents. Best advice for now, try as hard as you can not to take her comments so personally and remember that is just how she was raised, Men were the authority.
*Hugs* You are a wonderful daughter, even if she cannot seem to admit that.

OMgoodness Golden!! Yes talk with the dr and find out if they have to report it. Many questions they need to answer for you. I am sorry you have this one your mind now. Keep us updated.

thx BB - I do want that consultation, otherwise he is shooting in the dark. I wouldn't forget that comment either.

Jessie - very unfortunate perspective from your mother. God in His wisdom did not give my mother any sons. I am sure she would have ruined them. I have had good and bad therapists. If it doesn't work with one, I move on to another one. But you have to be ready - to want to make change.

trying - I know it is not simple. My sis, the golden girl, had set herself up to be care giver, which would have meant mother moving over to Scotland to be close to her, and going into an ALF there. I had heard about it for years from sis and was fine with it. You can imagine my shock and dismay when mother came for a visit out west and announced that she was moving here to be close to family. Over breakfast in the hotel one morning, I mentioned that my sis had expected her to move close to her. Mother's answer was a succinct, "Your sister wouldn't help me." So I swallowed, and said I would help her the best I could. She looked down at her plate, and nodded, and a tiny tear appeared in the corner of her eye. It was one of the few times of real connection I have had with mother.

Golden, geez louise, what a mess! I'd definitely want the geripsych consulted!

Jessie, my mom told me once that she enjoyed having my brothers, because boys were so interesting. Girls, she said, were just less interesting because she knew all about being one. Took my breath away.

thx for the tip, glad. I will find out about them reporting it. The social worker will know, if no one else. There has to be some accountability built into the system.

thx upset - he is not the same doctor. He is mother's doctor of the group who visit the ALF.. Risperdal was prescribed by the geri psych in the geri psych hospital mother was in for a year. I don't believe, from the phone call, that he consulted with them. I don't find that acceptable. I think likely she will metabolize and excrete some of the drug and will need a dose before 25 days are up, however, the geripsych would know how it should be managed. At best, they could test her blood levels and then decide in the proper course of action, but a geri psych may have a good idea from experience, and also suggestions about protocol to avoid this happening again. I may call the social worker at the hospital as she and I have loosely kept in contact and the last geri psych asks her how mother is.

This whole thing is shaking me a bit as what if the error had done her in. What a mess to deal with! Mother is ready to go, but you could not let something like that go undealt with, and the Viking and BPD in her would want me to fight it.

Golden, wow! Like you I would find out how and why it happened. New staff? Staff shortage? Confused dosage with another resident? Strange and could have been a fatal error. Here the facilities are required to report these sorts of things to the state. Maybe there is something similar there?

Golden, I'm sorry about the med mixup with your Mom. The only thing I would verify immediately is if the doctor who prescribed the dosage is the same doctor who is deciding the timing and dosage for the next dose.

Jessie, As a therapist, I can tell you unequivocally that you aren't alone. Many people have difficulty finding a therapist they can talk to. And, sometimes it's guarding your own feelings.

Your mother, like many mothers, planted ideas about sex that were totally off base when you were younger. Maybe that's a contributing factor to you not wanting to children or maybe not. My mother and her entire family thought boys were the only thing worth having. I have cousins who think the same thing.

The fact that your mother is still talking about feeling like a man would be something I'd think about too. I think I would find it unsettling after all this time that she still has this idea.

I do know what it is to be made to feel of less worth than a brother. Life long with my brother.

trying and heart -thanks. Here in Canada we do not go the legal route often and it seems she has not suffered any harm. I just want to find out what happened and what they are doing to do to prevent it happening again. Up to now they have been very good about informing me promptly of any changes, falls etc.

madge - I am still digesting what I heard. My main concern initially was that mother is alright. A meeting with the doctor and other staff is needed. There was no explanation given about how it happened. I find that wrong too, I believe they get the drug in lots of three. I have seen that on the pharmacy's bills. I don't know why and will ask now. Sorry that your mum gets given the wrong drugs sometimes and glad you have followed up.

jessie - to be clear she got one injection of 3x her normal dose. I don't know if someone found it or if the person who did it reported it, but I intend to find out. People do make mistakes -that is human - and that is why there are protocols for checking these things. I intend to find out what their protocol is and what they are going to do to prevent this happening again. It can be done. I know the protocol in hospitals for ensuring right blood types are given in transfusions is quite elaborate and it works.

R is very good at dealing with this kind of thing, but he is in E'ton under his vehicle working in a big repair so out of touch til later tonight. He will come with me to a meeting, I am sure, and field most of it.

Forgive the change of course. I've been thinking about something for a couple of days. My mother told me she mostly feels like a man and that women are not as good as men. It's better to be a man. I'd always felt my mother would have preferred being a man, and that she thought I was lower than my brothers, but this was the first time she put it into words. When I was a kid, she taught me that men really don't want children. It is just something that happens to them because they like sex. And that sex was just something women had to tolerate. I wonder where in the world she got such warped thinking. I know it had to be something she learned along the way. It is sad growing up feeling like you're lesser because of your XX genotype and burdensome habit of getting pregnant. Oy. Still pondering all this. Maybe this explains why I never wanted to have children from the time I was a child myself.

Sometimes I think I need to talk to a therapist, but I never found one that I was able to talk to. I don't think it is them as much as it is me guarding things inside me.

Rainey you are so right. Some people handle their own issues by being nasty. It's no excuse and I hope I didn't make it sound that way. What works for me is to try and stay out of the line of fire, detachment is my best tool for that. I also find I am much happier when I let go of my resentment, that stuff just eats me alive.

Golden... I would get legal advise asap... What if there are other things happening that you haven't been told about?... at least it would be on record (write everything down). I would do this for my mother, since she can't do anything for herself.

I can't add anything to your thorough list of questions. I just want to say I'm sorry you have yet one more worry to deal with Golden. You do need a break.

Golden, I am glad it wasn't above the max dose. That is scary. Unfortunately, people in medicine do make mistakes in dosing. Some of the mistakes can be deadly. Many times it is caused by a math error. I understand how that happens -- twice I overdosed laboratory mice. Nightmare memory for me. I am shocked that they overdosed your mother three times. No one must have been checking. I would definitely have a talk with them to have checks in place for the dosage so that it doesn't happen again.

WoW Golden

Is there a way for you to speak directly with the doctor?

At your mom's age I would be concerned

Mom is on risperdal too but orally so I don't know the conversion to an injection on an extended release basis

I would focus on the medical care first then determine (if they didn't tell you) how she received 3x a dose (new person or not measuring or new supply from pharmacy etc), and how this can be prevented in the future

Certainly you should have been told immediately

On more than one occasion nurses have handed me the wrong pills for mom and I advised their supervisor-

prior to mom being switched to risperdal the pharmacy delivered the wrong dose of seroquel and staff didn't confirm the new Rx with me per their protocol-
when mom was nearly passed out on a weekend I tracked her neurologist down through his after hours line to straighten it out

Let us know what you find out as these are things we don't often hear about

Good points re caregivers. I have my own story, but that can wait till later.

Need some feedback here.

The ALF called and they accidentally overdosed mother with three times her regular dose of risperdal. It is a slow release form with which she is injected  every 10 days. They did this July 6th and only called me this afternoon. They have been monitoring her and have seen no changes in her. We agreed that blood levels are probably peaking around now so if she is OK tomorrow she is probably going to be OK from then on. They said the doctor suggested missing two doses (25 days from now)before they start again. I have some issues with all of this.

1) They should have called me right away to tell me what happened, with daily updates for the first few days.
2) I want to know what protocols they had in place, and what more they will put in place to prevent this from happening again
3) On what basis did the resident dr suggest the length of the waiting period before she gets her next dose. In my view, it may be too long and I don't want mother having delusions again.
4) Did they consult with a geripsych or any other expert as to how to treat her if she had some side effects, and what the waiting period before the next dose should be?

Fortunately she is normally on the minimum dose, so even three times is probably about max dose (as far as I could tell from the internet) so not as out of line as it could be, but I am not impressed with how they are handling it.

I have the name of the lady who called and intend to email her, cc to the case worker with my concerns.

Anyone have anything to add? Fortunately mother is handling this well, but a similar mistake could have been problematic or fatal to someone else, or to mother, if she was not as constitutionally strong.

Seems I don't get a break yet.

Tryingmybest,
I do commend you for looking at "both sides of story" and I always do try to look through the other persons eyes in hopes to gain logic & insight as to why they behave as they do. But then, sometimes there is just no good reason for people doing nasty things other than they are unhappy for whatever reason in their own lives and must have some target to paint the bullseye on because nothing can ever be their fault! You could catch them taking money right out of your wallet and they would say, "Oh I didn't think you would mind" or "I was just going to get you something you were out of" or even some, flat out deny what you caught them doing. Sometimes, there is no logical reason other than a selfish, jealous, narcissistic, sociopathic individual who only goal is self gratification regardless of the harm they cause. Yes, everyone may have a story but that does not give them carte blanche to be a jerk to those who really are being the altruistic one/s. We also have our less than perfect stories but somehow, we get through it without acting out on others or feeling we are owed monetary compensation for an unhappy childhood.

Upsetsister,
Thanks for understanding! That is a great username, I could be called "one of those," LOL! After this last episode, my true limit with putting up with any needless family BS is officially over. I will boot them out of my life faster than they can say Jiminy Cricket! I am done being civil, done trying to keep the peace, done talking it out. It has been made completely clear that they are phony to your face and are vicious, petty snakes behind your back. I am the type that speaks my mind now and I do not use sugar coating, and if you do something wrong, I will call you out on it immediately. I spent my whole life staying quiet, trying to keep the peace (in my family) for everyone elses sake but my own. I am done. Anyone else who tries now will do so at their own detriment. I should change my screen name to Done w/jerks, LOL!!!!!!

I can't speak about the how and why of caregivers I just know that each person and situation is different. I was the person who catered to my Moms needs most of my life. I was the one who listened to her woes and tried to make her feel better. I almost never asked for help even when I was a single Mom with three kids, not because I didn't need it but because my parents made it clear they were not willing. My sister and brother pretty much saw our parents as a resource, they asked for help and got it. Mom babysat for their kids regularly, she and Dad also helped them materially. Sis in particular was downright nasty to them and they never said no to her.

One would think that I would have ended up being the primary caregiver but that did not happen for a number of reasons. First I found my way to counseling and support groups before my parents got old. I learned detachment and boundaries and so much more. I think the most important lesson was that my well being is not less important than that of others.

Four years ago, when my Dad got sick, it was clear my parents needed help. The three of us siblings met to discuss what was needed. Sis refused to listen to opinions other than her own, she had no patience for discussion. She began doing things without consulting anyone else.

Long story short I fought my sisters need to control for a while and finally I decided to let go. Sis has complete control now, Brother has cut himself off from the whole thing. I contribute to the caregiving when I am able and willing. I say yes when I can and have no trouble saying no when I can't.

I think people are too complicated to make generalizations. I also think that each person in a situation has their own story to tell and somewhere in the middle is the truth. I don't understand why my sister does what she does and I'm sure she feels the same about my brother and me. I do understand why my brother walked away but I wish he hadn't. I don't think any of us is right or wrong in this. I believe we are doing the best we can according to our own limitations.

I think some become caregivers because they hope said parent will finally love them, see their worth. Others because ( myself included), we are the nurturing ones.

Golden, it's not just the boys loving having us here, dd is lonely due to her hubs work schedule, she no longer has a bff since the big blowout last year. She will be over later as she now wants to learn to crochet, lol!! Yes, some days I wish she would stay home as I would enjoy a quiet day to myself, but eventually the newness will wear off.