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EMJO.
I used to know I had one, but that past year and a half tell me I have two. Looking forward to karma.
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Thank you Book and Veronica. I will get through this...the gash on my forehead is a good reminder as well as the the look of horror on my husbands face when he returned from the store...he had only been gone a few minutes. Hugs!
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Camaryllis-depending on how advanced the dementia is, you might try what I do with my mother. I tell her she can go home when the Dr fills out the paperwork. She accepts it then forgets about it but asks again when I visit. You could try saying he can go home when work on the house is done.
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Hi Looloo,
Haha, yes, truly, you are right. I went and looked at my roses the other night. I wasn't sure if just exiting stage right when he gets agitated was the right thing to do. I know he can't help this and can't learn to control himself or anything. He lives with us now, so I can go to another room but didn't want to make things worse.

Hugs
Christine
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camaryllis, he sounds right now like he doesn't need soothing. But you do. I'm not a professional (duh), and this isn't a miracle cure, but what works for me is to give this a few days to fade a little bit. If you're not going to see your fil for a little while, that's a good thing. If you can take a quiet walk someplace in nature, I promise you this really helps. And sometimes silly little rituals help too -- like, when I come home after a visit with my mother, the first thing I do is jump in the shower, change my clothes, take the dog for a walk, and my head and heart will clear up a bit.
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So, does anyone have any advice on what I can say when my fil gets upset and starts accusing us of kidnapping them and holding them against their will, and saying to take him home immediately. I read that I should try to validate him, and not argue. So I said that I knew it was hard, and this is his home now. That only seemed to escalate things. He said that he had worked all his life to have his home and that he could take care of himself. Well, he can't. I went through different emotions, sadness and tears, because I feel sorry for him that he can't function any more and is hating that. And then frustration and some anger that he was saying hateful things to me. I know he can't help it. and I can control myself but he can't. He sat and sulked and gave me mean looks for an hour or so, and then the next morning it was as if nothing had happened. So he can forget but I can't. Although I see that I have to.

Anyway, any ideas on what I can say to soothe him?
Hugs
Christine
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Hi Emjo,
Thanks for the info, and hugs back!
Christine
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Oh wow -describes my situation with my sis to a "T". She played "poor me" and my mother bought it all our lives.

from the website "The Narcissist In Your Life" by Linda Martinez-Lewi, Ph.D. Clinical Expert on the Narcissistic Personality

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Covert Narcissistic Sisters Play and Deceive with “Poor Little Me”

Covert narcissistic sisters play the “poor little me” role in their families to psychologically unhinge and wreak havoc on their non-narcissistic brothers and sisters. They start very early telling lies to the parents about their siblings while playing the innocent role to the hilt.

As they grow older their sabotage escalates, causing great pain emotional and psychological pain. They plot and take boyfriends away from their sisters by telling lies or revealing secrets or conjuring up dirty secrets. They are believable; their lying skills are impeccable. (In my case sis went to mother with stories and a couple of boyfriends were banned from the house and my life).

Parents often make excuses for them especially if this the Golden Child: ”Oh, she is shy and dependent; she is not capable of lying; give her a chance; she’s unsure of herself; you have to be kind to her.” ( I have been told that I had to look after my sister as she was not well - BS)

As she grows older and her psychopathology deepens the CNS becomes even bolder. As the parents age, the CNS becomes “indispensable” to them. In secret she plots and gains power and access to all of their financial assets—properties, investments, etc.

When the parents are gone, everything is left to her—a pittance or less to the other siblings. Who’s saying “Poor Little Her” now!

Covert narcissists are difficult to detect. Learn to recognize them. They are too “good” to be true. Always trust your Intuition, your Gut, that Sense of Knowing you have that is a great gift.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is so great to see this laid out so clearly. My sis has gotten more overtly nasty as she got older, and bolder in attacking me. I don't think she has succeeded with getting all the inheritance, but I know she has had that goal for most of her adult life. I guess we will find out after mother dies. The social worker is amazed that sis has not called or written me to find out how mother is. I know she is not really interested in mother, just what mother can do for her.

If this rings true for anyone - protect yourself.

Glad, I think you have one too! Maybe others as well.
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veronica - good suggestion, but I have hardwood floors and have swept and moved furniture and no sign of the rings. They are heavy enough you would hear them if the were swept across the floor. That the three of them are missing and the dog was lying on the chewed box makes me suspicious that he swallowed them. We have checked in and around the love seat he was on and no sign of any of them. Aaaargh!

Christine - no doubt you have a lot of stress and that eventually will affect your health - note I say "will" and not "may". The latest figure is that 40% of caregivers die before the ones they care give. It is a serious matter. I am delighted that your sig other is "with" you in working on the problems. Yes limit your talk about frustrations. but not about solutions, When your in-laws (one or the other) end up in hospital you can refuse to take them back saying that you cannot look after them and then the hospital has to find them a placement. They may well be eligible for Medicaid. Check it out with your local agency for aging and social services. I know it seems a lot when you are working too, but it will pay off. Your sig o could do some of the checking, as well. If your in law's income is below a certain amount they are eligible for Medicaid as long as they do not have more than a certain value of assets, which, if they do, can be "spent down" on appropriate things. It is worth while finding out if they are eligible. You are responsible for paying for their care. There is help out there and FIL will only get worse -the disease progresses -so starting an application for Medicaid soon is a good thing as it takes time to process.
Glad you are taking care of you. Keep it up and come back any time. There is lots of support and experience here. ((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))
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Hi Emjo,
Wow, thanks for the hugs and the link! I will check that out. This was so sudden I am trying to learn everything and I work full time too. :) Stress central.

I have decided that the next time they get screamy I will leave the room or the house. My sig other is very supportive and is doing all he can to be part of the solution. I am just with them more than he is, he works second shift and I work early. Which is actually good because they are not home alone for long. Right now they are okay alone for a part of the day. But they are there when I get home and I have to tend to them then. Luckily they go to bed early.

A friend told me that she has a rule in her house, she takes care of her parents too. The rule is that she and her husband can talk about the parents and their frustrations for five minutes each day. They set a timer, five minutes each, and then back to normal life things. I think that is great. So we are trying that.

Yes, I have to be careful not to fall into the pit of disfunction. And yesterday I went outside and looked at my roses for a while, that helped. And being able to talk about things here helps too...I am sure I will learn more and I already feel hugged.
Thank you for caring,
Christine
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Hi GladIAmHere
The parents are in their mid eighties. He is incontinent, she is a little crazy. Well, guess they are both a little crazy. Our kids are all grown and gone. I agree, this can't be a long term thing. But I have no idea of how they will be able to afford an assisted living facility, we certainly can't afford to put them in one. I am trying to research options. They do have a falling down old house, but they are not willing to even think of selling it. More things to figure out. I don't think the dad will be judged competent in any way so might have to do something to get guardianship. He is paranoid about people trying to take his money, though, so it is complicated.
Thanks for caring,
Christine
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Hi Veronica 91,
There wasn't much choice. Their doctor and social worker said they could not live alone any more, and Charles is their only family. I am conflict avoidant, they are conflict ridden! Not a great match. I think it will come down to figuring out a way to get them into a nursing home/assisted living situation. And I know, I will be crazy if I don't figure out how to manage this. It has only been a week! They have always lived farther away, so I didn't have to deal with their personalities. Now it is up close and personal. They are both in major denial about their conditions and abilities. My plan is to tend to them and feed them, they are both extremely underweight, and assess the situation for a few months and see what needs to happen. Right now getting them doctors and such here is the first step. And luckily my home has the mother in law plan, so they can have an area to themselves. And so can we. For now it has to be like this.

I know, tough love is good. And I welcome any suggestions or experience.
Thank you for caring,
Christine
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Thx again pam - good idea! I will mention it to the owner. I don't want to take a big boisterous dog in my car to a busy environment. I can barely handle him on a leash and need to close him in a room before I take my laundry downstairs as he rushes to greet me on the basement stairs = recipe for a fall.

(((((((((Christine))))))) - sounds pretty hard to take. Setting boundaries and detaching are helpful. Can you leave the room when the fight starts - or work with your sig other to get the fights contained to a certain part of the house or find a safe place for you?

Keeping them there for long may be too hard on you and your family. It sounds very toxic. Has a facility been considered? Would your sig other be OK with that? It is best of the two of you are on the same page. Living with two narcissists and one with Alz is more than anyone should have to do.
Home needs to be safe and secure and it sounds like yours is not any more. My heart goes out to you.

There is good stuff on the internet on narcissism and on detachment -the website daughtersofnarcissisticmothers is one place to google for insights into narcissism and how to deal with it. Also google "The Narcissist In Your Life
Linda Martinez-Lewi, Ph.D. Clinical Expert on the Narcissistic Personality" - lots of good links there. You really have to earn how to protect yourself.
Let us know how it goes and comes back and vent all you like. Others here deal with narcissists.
Have a great day and do something good for you!!! Don't lose yourself to the dysfunction!
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Christine-
How old are the parents? Do you have any children in the home? It is time to find a different living situation for them. This will only impact your own health and relationships.
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Emjo have you tried vacuuming with some panty hose over the hose on your machine. That is recommended for finding a lost contact lens so it should find a ring
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Sharryn you may or may not be an alcoholic but it is important to remember it is a disease not a personal weakness and the hopeful thing to remember is that there is a cure. look for that cure before you do yourself a serious injury. Hugs you have been very brave to share this. No one is going to judge you.
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Christine welcome.
Everyone here tries to be helpful supportive and loving but at times it is necessary to hand out a little tough love. I hope you will not judge us if you don't agree with some comments they are only meant to help and they come from people who are living in the world of hard knocks,and many times are at the bottom of their own dark deep holes.
My question to you is why did you take these in laws into your home knowing what they are like? Can you form a plan to take the next step with them and move them on. You are going to ruin your own health if you continue to endure this torture. Blessings
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Good morning,
New here. Great thread.
Dysfunctional is a mild word for my people. I myself come from a family where my parents lived in the same house but did not speak to each other for like 25 years. There were no fights, no yelling. My significant other's family is the opposite. They scream at each other and say really hateful things. And they now live in my house. The second night they were here they had a big group scream fest. Dredging up resentments from decades ago. I just sat there horrified.

Two nights ago the dad started in on me. Said that I approved of the fact that his son had kidnapped them and was holding them against their will. He has dementia, and I know he can't help what he is saying. Dementia added onto a self centered narcissistic personality is not pretty. I am sensitive, and this had me in tears for hours. I have to find a way to not react when I get screamed at, and to remember that it is his disease talking. The mother pulled me aside and told me that her husband had always been an ingrate. But she is also narcissistic, and self absorbed. So between the two it is quite a change in my home life.

Thanks for listening. It helps some to know that I am not alone in this.
Hugs
Christine
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Oh, Sharyn.... at least you have acknowledged it - first with yourself. And then by coming on here, and telling us - so publicly - means you have moved to the next stage. No more hiding or denial. I think it's knowing that you're going to be a grandmother was the nudge for you. And then the falling down. You will definitely need help from others who have been there. {{HUGS}}
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Thanks everyone! I have debated for months in bringing this to light on here. Now that I have, I know have to do something about it. I am so disappointed in myself as I worked hard to avoid this from happening. I have some soul searching to do and healing.

Thank you everyone ((((Hugs)))).
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thanks alison and glad - I hope so too. Regular inspections of the suspect material are happening

(((((((sharyn))))) - In my view, if you are concerned you have a problem - you have a problem. My daughter had a major wake up call when she woke up one morning with a big bump on her forehead and did not remember doing it. I think that was a turning point for her and she has been sober now for about 20 years. I know you can do it - whatever it is that you need to do. As Alison says - we already know you are a great human being!!! and I know you will be a great grandma! ((((((hugs))))) Take care of you! We are here for you.
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Emjo, just take the dog to the airport and see if he pings at the TSA checkpoint. Or try the courthouse. Anyplace with a metal detector.
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Sharyn, thinking of you.

Emjo, hope you find those rings.
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Today I had to take dad up to VA in the city, the drive is hectic and the wait is long… but it was the conversation I had with older bro on way home that ruined my day momentarily. I called him asking for his support in getting Trust to take one position or another on whether they will assist financially with needed repairs to house and the conversation quickly went sideways as bro questioned me about anything and everything that is already well documented and covered in the emails that I send him and copy him on! He doesn't read them. But he wants to throw back to me that I am somehow not adhering to some agreed upon plan and that I'm not doing my end of the deal… I'm the only one doing ANYTHING… how come I'm the weakest link? I was hurt and mad at him earlier, over it now. Its nothing new, just… tired of it. On the one hand, he seems like my only helper in all of this and he wants to be dad's POA and I support that… but he doesn't actually stay involved. He seems to think I'm supposed to wave some magic wand that I don't possess and make my father's medical issues vanish and get him relocated to Indianapolis against his will. Sigh. I'll be better after some sleep. Just a minor hiccup today. Older bro is such an out-of-touch hypocrite. Vent complete.

Hope you find those rings, emjo!

And good for you, Margeaux, that your plan to be less available has born fruit. I'm taking notes. ;-)

Hope everyone else is as well as can be expected! Hugs and good night!
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Sharyn, I think there are a couple of questions you could ask yourself - when you are sober - about why you're drinking that might help you understand more. Are you drinking to avoid stress or to cope with stress in your life? Is your drinking making you negligent of important areas of your life?

There is something in AA called "The 20 Questions" and you could find them easily online. Run down those 20 questions with yourself and see how you answer… this will help guide you to a better understanding of whether or not you are an alcoholic. Whether you are or are not, we all already know you're a great human being! :-) Hugs!
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Ladeem- i drink 3 25 oz. Cans of beer after work...on my days off it is 4-6 cans. I hhave injuried myself 3 times due to unstable walking.
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Pam-my pupils are the same sizel. I am not over making more thiw thqn it reqlly iw.
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Sharyn, if your family is like mine, and I think it is, they could drive anyone to drink. There is justifiable homicide, how about justifiable drinking?

Bookluver, My grand dad had bees and people drove quite a way to get honey for allergies. I understand it is best if it is raw LOCAL honey in season. That way the pollen is what you are having allergies to, and the honey making process seems to make it safe to ingest. Grandad always went out and got the honey right from the hives for his customers who had allergies, so it was whatever was currently in bloom. They swore by it.
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Sharyn, PS..... your experience , you sharing it, and supporting others is not diminished by this situation you find yourself in.... you are still you under the fog.... please keep that in mind.... our heart still is our heart.... sending you lots of love...
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Sharyn....if in fact you are an alcoholic, then admitting it is half way there.... I suggest you go to some AA meetings..... and you know I am here for you.....there is no shame in being human, and the very fact you are sharing it.. speaks volumes about your chances of recovery... you know I am an A with a little time built up.... hardest thing for me to do was just admit it.... I am here for you... sending you prayers to seek the help you deserve....
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