The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

It makes perfect sense!

Does your peacemaking having any good outcomes for anyone?

Barb, I've always felt like I should be the peacekeeper and in doing so try to bridge gaps, mend fences, be the bigger person. etc. etc. So along with that comes the guilt if I don't continue to do that.

It's like if you see something bad happening and you don't participate but you also don't do anything to help. Then it's almost like you are just as guilty you know what I mean.

The old saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" So I feel if I don't go to my family get togethers it's like I've given up trying to make things better. Does this make any sense?

What do you feel guilty about, Gershun?

Have you done something wrong?

They are treating you poorly, by definition (being sarcastic, making remarks about your intelligence? That's not the way polite people act.)

You are never required to subject yourself to insults voluntarily. Does it say in the Bible that you have to VOLUNTEER to do that? When you know in advance that they will treat you like that? Serious question.

Now if I could just stop the guilt feelings I get if I don't go we'd be in business.

True enough Barb! Yes, it doesn't say let people treat you like a doormat in the Bible does it?

Gershun; I would not give those folks the time of day.

I don't think that the Bible meant that you have to take abuse. Just loving folks from afar seems enough to fufill that commandment, don't you think?

It's just insidious isn't it. It's not blatant enough to be called abuse but it's still not right. I don't care if it's human nature to have your sibs see you as you were when you were young. It wasn't nice when I was young either.

Maybe it's time for them to see me as an adult. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt that they aren't the a**holes they were when they were young but they prove they still are when I see them now.

I was always the brunt of everyone's jokes when I was a kid and still am and frankly am tired of it.

Yes, maybe I've just given myself my own answer to my question. I guess it's good to write things down or type them out in this case.

Thx Glad

G, it is ok to decline an invitation. I have done it with the twisteds. And who do I think I am by being hurt by things they have done? Who am I to not even want to go to the functions? I don't know. Thinking about it may be residual gaslighting.

It is the anger I feel towards them for what they have done to my relationship with my oldest daughter especially. The narcissism of twisteds really got through to dd1, and still does. And it hurts! But, try to talk to daughter about it? Always turns back on me, they trained her well.

Spending holiday with crazy daughter and son. Had a nice chat with him last night. Twisteds tried to get through to him too. He kept saying no, and eventually they gave up on him, thank goodness. Not sure about other daughter, she has indicated they have tried with her too. Being a therapist I think she understands what has happened.

For me it is just much more pleasant to stay out of twisted's grips.

So G, do what feels right for you at the moment. It is ok to say yes, and decide at the last moment not to go. I KNOW where you are at.

Below is the latest from my husbands family after I informed them my LO was under the mental health act again to try and reduce his aggression which has increased mainly due to family interference and putting ideas in his head.
This is not new. The mother and brother have treated me like dirt since the day we met. 45 years of it

This email to me is even worse as it is from a man who beat his wife in front of his children many times. She is now an alcoholic and so is the youngest daughter


Lindsay,

Just so we are clear:

I have never rung the hospital to speak to staff or doctors, but on two occasions doctors have rung me to ask questions and hospital admin staff have also contacted me about Paul.

I have not encouraged Paul about going home, I have just listened to his accusations that you will not let him out to come home, even though he claims the hospital staff say he can go home. This is usually in the afternoons when he sounds far worse than he is in the mornings.The view is that you had tricked him into going into respite and was taking all his money.  

The confusing thing is that when I last visited Paul, I asked the staff if I had to get permission to take him out, if I had to apply or sign anything and if there were any restrictions. I was told no, I could take him anytime, no questions asked and they gave me his medication for the day. Bradley also took him out so it seems strange that he can't go home to visit, but can go anywhere he wants with us? I still don't understand this?

I have visited Paul three times since he has been in Melbourne and during my last visit I promised to try visit him at least once every two months. Hence I have arranged to go to Melbourne next week to see Paul, probably Tuesday to Thursday. I am not concerned about the expense of these visits as Paul is my brother, but I am more than a little disappointed that, to the best of my knowledge, Nathan never visited Paul in Campbelltown and that Matthew has not been to Caulfield. They both seem very opinionated about the situation and each other, but to the best of my knowledge neither could make the effort to visit Paul interstate when he was in hospital. Even Bradley, for his faults, has visited Paul in both Campbelltown and Caulfield.

We all view things differently and have different understandings of the actual situation, you undoubtably have the best understanding of Paul's situation, but from my personal perspective, if it was my wife suffering from a condition such as Paul has, I would do my upmost to keep her at home to look after her. Grandchildren would not matter as they have their own parents to look after them. If the condition was that bad that she had to stay in hospital, then I would want to visit the hospital everyday to see Ria and spend time with her, and if possible, take her out, almost everyday. After all, what else have I got to do that is more important? This is my personal view and of course I am not actually in that situation, as you are. I have never expressed this view to Paul because I know what damage it could do, but I am merely being honest with you and do not intend to do anything about it, because it really it is not up to me.

Finally, my only interest is getting the best result for Paul. I wish he could be at home, but if that is not to be, then I wish some other solution could be found to bring him some peace of mind. Unfortunately, I do not know what that is and I do have sympathy for your situation.  

Feel free to tell Nathan to stop ringing me, but I would be grateful for you to continue sending me email updates whenever necessary, and I will continue to keep Beryl informed as appropriate.

Mark

And no, I'm not a raving beauty so that's got nothing to do with that.

Then if we go to my in-laws it's my M I L staring at me all night and I mean staring and my F I L checking my butt out when I get up to leave the room. My S I L glaring at me and just the general feverish atmosphere.

So it's a no win choice either way.

They treat me with a lack of respect I guess. I state an opinion about something and I get sarcasm in return or that "oh, your little pea brain thought of that did it? How sweet"

Or we'll all walk in the door and my narc sis will say hi to everyone except me and then say "oh sorry I didn't see you standing over there" Like, how could she not see me. I'm taller than most everyone else in the doorway.

Or if me and my husband leave earlier than everyone which we usually do, not even walking us out. Or lifting up the tag at the back of my shirt to see the label.

I could go on but you get the drift.

Gershun, can you give us an example of how your family treats you?

In my family, everyone reverts to their childhood assigned place.

Do they treat you badly, or do they just not "get" you?

My problem which I have every year at this time is the struggle between doing the "right thing" which I guess would be putting all differences aside and making nice with my family or not going and preserving my own peace of mind which is fragile at best when I'm around my clan.

It's the same thing every year. Feeling like I should pretend that nothing anyone says or does bothers me and make nice with everybody and that self-preservation instinct which says Stay away from them at all costs! (if you know what's good for you)

I know it says in the Bible that you should love everyone, including your enemies. And I don't consider my family my enemies but also I don't care for how they treat me or how I feel when I'm around them.

So I guess what I'm asking is: Is it wrong to just say no to invitations and preserve my peace of mind or should I go to the get-togethers and grit my teeth throughout the whole occasion and then feel angry and out of sorts for days afterward? But know that I did the "right thing"

Thanks, Yoda and Barb. I really probably do need to find a good counselor because I know from experience mom will about lose her mind if - when - her sister dies. I'll get a whole world of accusations of "not being supportive enough" which frankly I'm already getting.

Honestly it is exhausting to be the child of this woman. I could go on and on. Part of it is she is terrified of getting older herself and neither she nor her sister saved any money for old age so we are probably looking at Medicaid at some point. Not the greatest option but come on - *I* didnt make these women blow thru all their money and I have a lot of issues with my mother over other choices she made (leaving my dad, letting my personality disordered sibling abuse me as a kid, etc.)

Yep, it's time for counseling. Thanks again for the replies.

Barb, your advice was hard to read, though spot on. I know we all get stressed, and just get out the facts, blunt as it sounds. It took time and thought for you to type the advice out, and it’s helpful for all sitting on similar fences, to benefit from your wisdom.

Duck, you are making amazing progress working through your plan! I salute you! Hope your holiday has some peaceful personal time, just for you!

I’m doing alright. It’s a bit scary, trying to start looking for a new joint surgeon. I asked my PT today, but he didn’t know of good surgeons outside of their clinic. I’ll be working on it after I get this Social Security/Medicare appeal handled. Spouse made a poor financial decision over my objections. I told him to not take a large distribution from 401k to pay off house, all in one tax year, to take half in December, half in January. Explained we would get bumped into a high earner Medicare premium bracket. He wouldn’t listen, one of those, who has to always be right. Well, now it’s come home to roost, and we are both being surcharged higher Medicare Part B and Part D premiums. Thousands. I told him I couldn’t pay those higher premiums in retirement, but he wouldn’t listen. Now I’m faced with trying to appeal these surcharges, for income we never saw, went strait to the mortgage holder to pay off the house. Ticks me off, as he always dumps this crap in my lap. And I’ve got more than a full plate as it is. So, I read through the eight page letter of Social Security legalese today before physical therapy, contacted our former employer to obtain the letters, giving our retirement dates. Loss of income, retirement or losing job, hours cut, etc, are specifically listed as reasons they may consider an appeal. It’s so ridiculous I have to even do this, due to my spouse disrespecting my knowledge. I hate adversarial behavior!

Duck I was worried Barb's bluntness would push you away. I think that often we are so used to the daily rituals that help us survive that the extra effort needed to look for a lifeline seems too much, but then of course nothing ever changes. We are all pulling for you and hoping you can find balance in your life.

Barb! I was just on line looking for senior housing. I am typing through tears grateful and sad and frustration. Please know I appreciate it all.

Same to you Panzimirrt.

My sister works and guess where, an agency that provides visiting nurseS. I am an RN. My nephews do not live in the house

I am hoping its just a home attendant situation and guardianship. In any case I do realize I need to leave. I really do. Ive applied at different placs and on housing connect. Today for before I got on the forum I was on line investigating options for senior housing. I see a few places and I am going to print and find time to go and fill out an application.

Thank goodness my pressure is back to normal. But now I have swelling in with some pain in my left knee and I am wondering sciatica or hip replacement on the right. I just went and signed up for hhc options to go to the gotham clinics one is not to far from me - 6 blocks.

Thanks for the heads up Barb, your advice and perspective is to be respected. Serious food for thought for me.

I know big change is ahead. I hope something affordable comes my way. Meanwhile I am anxious about my knee and hip issues for a while, as well as my pressure which is lovely I will see for how long. Right now I am focusing on those issues. Its taken me a very long time to finally get an appointment with the financial counselor. There are days when its seriously painful to walk. I feel like I have aged

GirlSaylor, most surgeons are very arrogant. But I think there was an issue with the nursing if your pain was not documented and addresss. I mean that should be automatiic with that type of surgery. I am glad you are coming along okay.

Golden, I am missing you.

If I am not back on before the holiday I wish you all a blessed and joyful holiday season for you and your loved ones.

This season is not good for me my father passed on 10/31, my grandmother on 11/22 and Sham on 12/6. Not to mention the situation with my imediated family.

I do plan to relocated whereever my son decides to settle down maybe get a cottage or senior housing.

Much love for you all!! Rays of love and healing to all.

(Again, thanks Barb from the bottom of my heart. I know you keep it real I was almost scared to read the post because the truth hurts)

So, I’ve been fairly quiet. Some introspection, But mostly just busy going to PT, doing home exercises, icing hip and knees. Hard to do household chores, but I do cook every day and do up dishes, laundry, the necessities.

I learned a lesson this week. When dealing with a surgeon with a great big ego, don’t dare complain about the pain.. I was advised, after the hospital nurses didn’t properly chart my terrible pain after hip replacement, after hospital PT didn’t chart my pain properly, after I wasn’t asked where the pain was, not offered a pillow to support my back or knees, after I was not offered any assistance with positioning, for the pain...I dared to complain about being thrown out of the hospital in terrible pain, doctor ignoring my pain. Ended up it wasn’t the new hip at all, nor the surgical trauma. It was terrible muscle spasms and nerve pain from the surgeon lengthening my leg when he did the hip replacement. I dared to state to the PA that my pain was ignored, and once I was prescribed muscle relaxer and steroid pack for inflammation, the pain quickly resolved. It was so unnecessary. I was dismissed from his care, guess I messed up his stats, had the nerve to complain about the pain. He won’t be doing my knees, have to find another surgeon. It’s all for the best, I’m sure, after being treated so badly, by such a skilled surgeon. Too bad I messed up his stats. Once I have secured a qualified knee surgeon, I’ll be writing the hospital complaint and copying Medicare. Ugh, ridiculous to dis patients in pain.

"Mom, going over the same ground isnt helping. Yes, it's terrible that Aunt Ethel is so ill. It's clearly time for her to get professional care. How can I help with getting her admitted to a nursing home?"

If your mother isn't willing to see that her sister needs more care than you and your cousins can give, perhaps it's time for you to take the bull by the horns and contact your cousin with this idea. Your mother is going to die in her attempt to "save" her sister.

Hellebore7,

Sorry to hear about the verbal and emotional abuse that you are facing. Sounds like your mother needs for her primary care doctor or a geriatric psychiatrist to put her on an anti-depressant. It also sounds like it's time for some boundaries. For example, when she starts into an abuse rage, calmly say something like "I can't talk with you when you treat me like this. I will come back later when you have calmed down" and leave. Don't argue, just say this is not acceptable and as a consequence, you are leaving. Her being upset does not give her the freedom to abuse you like she is. I wish you the best.

Anyone have advice on how to stop my mother from abusing me out of grief and stress from likely losing her terminally ill sister soon, who's been like her twin for the last 80 years? I get that she's devastated, but I'm close to the aunt too and this is hard on me also. Being screamed at for how little I'm allegedly doing to help (I'm pitching in on cooking and errands; drove mom on a 900 mile rtrip to see another family member recently) and how "unsupportive" I am (hours and hours on the phone listening to how awful everything is every week) is really, really hard. I don't feel like I have any choice but to avoid mom to some extent if I don't want to be yelled at, but she's always with my aunt who needs help especially because she doesn't have any children of her own - another of my cousins is doing a lot of the care but I feel like it's not right to aks her to carry the burden alone. On the other hand I know mom will not yell at my cousin. Maybe I should ask cousin directly to let me know if something needs to be done without involving my mom, but I'm not sure she'll believe how mean my mom is being to me because mom isn't mean to her.

Sigh. This really sucks. Thanks for listening.

Barb you have laid this out clearly. I have often been confused about what is really going with poor Duck, Thank you, And I hope she gets out of this mess ASAP

So, Duck; Let me lay this out the way I see it so that you can grasp what I'm looking at. Be aware, I live in Downtown Brooklyn, not all that far from you; I've lived in East Flatbush and worked in Brownsville. I've experienced the extreme dysfunction that sometimes exists in historical communities of color in NYC and worked with colleagues who have overcome the craziness that has gone on in their families and those who have helped others get out of this morass.

1. You live in your mother's home. You don't pay rent.
2. You have reported your mother's squalid living conditions to APS in the hopes that they will take guardianship.
3. Your sister and nephew (her son) also live in the homestead. They also do not pay rent.
4. Your sister is mentally ill and no longer works.
5. Your sister has a NYC pension.
6. Your nephew works for NYPD.
7. You are either an RN or LPN. You formerlly worked for EMS but now work for a contract agency.
8. You have no health insurance.
9. I'm not sure if you have Medicaid or not.
10. You have health care through the 9/11 funding.
11. You "make too much to get assistance" but are basically destitute. You are in arrears with the IRS, but don't seem to be able to translate that fact into reduced take home pay that would get you to the eligibility criteria for assistance, either for housing or other stuff.
12. You continue to buys goods, food and services for your mother's home even though your family trashes or steals what you buy.

Okay, so laid out that way, can you make me (or US) understand why you stay where you are?

If APS takes guardianship of your mom, you will be homeless. You need to plan for this eventuality NOW.

Duck, Get out of the house. Quit spending money on stuff for them to break and food for them to waste. Move on. Live your life for you to be happy. Your mom made your sister in charge of health care. We all care for you and want the best for you. You might get out and find that significant other.🥰

Duck, this may fall on deaf ears but you need to move on from thus ugly and abusive situation.

Girlsaylor, your post was very uplifting and bought me down to earth and the reality of what I am dealing with. My nephew sent me a text sayIm nothing and do nothing. Please stop pretending. its really ok everyone knows the truth. Ma is good and will continue to be good. You dont know anything or do anything. I was tempted to text him back and tell him hopeful a bucket of water will fall on his mother before he loses credibility in life and on the job.

Girl I went into prayer the psalms 142 - 144. It helped. I also called the prayer line and said a little prayer as I walked home.

The enemy is busy. I once loved and cared for my nephew like he was my own son especially when my son went away, People used to think he was my son. It will always break my heart to see where we are now. Its so sad to see the shallowness. I used to be so proud of him. I guess those childhood memories go out the window for some people. I just hope this situation does not cause him his job with the investigation of thisattempt to transfer of money and the obvious neglect and ignorance and arrogance exhibits in texts.

This morning I could feel the blood boiling in my head when I read his text. the sad thing is he and his mother truly believe it. I will try not to respond but words can not explain how bad I want to see the arrogance and authority shut down.

not one moment goes by that I can forget how my mother made my sister her protege and this nephew also. Its not lost on me that she is reaping what she sowed. But I know its wrong and in my heart and as my mother she deserves better.

I called the APS case worker. he says to email all to him. although its not accepting delivery. I am emailing all to myself and will send to him also when I get address resolved. I am sorry to hear about your similar situation but sharing has helped me. It helps to see that people survives this and worse.

I was starting to feel broken an hopeless for a moment there. Alone. Especially when I saw the typical expressions that are used by narcissists, it almost made me blow a fuse when I read it especially knowing he was puppetting a converasttion between him and his mother.

Thats the thing I really appreciate here is that I have learned so much about narcissism and that it not at all rare. Learning about it was the best tool I gained in learning how to deal with them.

Basically everything is out of my hands except for cleaning and feeding her and keeping the mice in check.

The rest is in God's Hands, and His working through APS and their continued ignorance and refusing to get her care and treatment.

I hope you all are in good spirits. I will be trying to get set up with a city hospital health plan where you pay by earnings, Last I had it, it was resonable although I was under this care right before I almost died from pnemonia after going to clinic and er every week complaining about my cough and phlem not going away. Thank goodness today I feel a lot better. I do have some congestion and its going to take weeks to clear up as usual.

I thank each and everyone of you who have shared their pain and progress. It really helps.

Girl, I hope you continue to heal speedily, Golden I hope you are well. Barbs, Glad, Church, Becky, STacey I hope all is well. Got much love for you all. Sleep tight take it easy in this holiday season. Give your self something special first..
Life is love. Keep smiling.

DDuck, what a twisted time you’ve had . It’s so crazy, the way Narc mothers and their golden child flying monkeys murder us, one bite at a time, cannibalizing our souls. I firmly believe there is a special place in you-know-where for those siblings who participate in the murdering of our souls. I’ve come to believe if a woman even suspects she is the daughter of a Narc, and has a flying monkey for a sibling, it is most probably true. For all children want and need to be loved. We victimized daughters often need well into adulthood to figure it out. Is it any wonder so many turn to drugs, alcohol, cutting, so much self destruction. It is a testimony to your strength that you are the healthiest emotionally in your family. At least, as one of the targeted daughters, that’s how I see you. It can sure be lonely to wrap my head around having blood relatives, but little real sense of family. I stay away pretty much. It feels less painful that way. Scapegoating is little more than slow murder of the soul. If a sibling allows herself to be the Narc mother’s tool, she is as sick as the Narc mother. My sister continues scapegoating me even after both our parents have died. Now that’s sick!-her hanging onto the sick murderous behavior.

Boon turned 11 and I thought it was so sweet when he said he understood when I told him Im not rich and cant get over there to see them as often as I would like to be there.

I know how much just a little bit of love means. I was lucky to have people who truly loved me and offset the ugly side of being my mothers daughter.

And the beat goes on. Im hanging on like snoopy.

Good nite, rays of love and light to all.