Hello first of all, I’m going to be using voice type so I apologize for any errors that the device will absolutely create.
only child at the age of 63 my parents are both 84. I guess it all started about seven years ago mother went in for her gallbladder surgery and had complications where she almost died from was in the hospital for literally months I think she may have broken the hospitals record. When she was released, my father and myself were worried that she would have to go back in and their farm could be lost due to Medicaid so he found some lawyers and signed the deed to the farm into my name six years ago.
six years progressed and so to the aging of my parents about three years ago my father had some sort of a stroke or heart attack and which reduced mobility and became very unsteady mother fell and broke her hip which she did recover from rapidly I was surprised but she also lost a lot of ability things continued with me driving the hundred plus miles to their farm that was in my name to help them take care of it every week or two more like 2 to 3 weeks. As I age it became harder and harder for me to do that then. then last year was a very bad year dad had his knee replaced, and he had a lot of complications. Then he got a very bad case of shingles, followed by getting a level four out of four is the worst bladder infection which I believe affected his kidneys to degree he was in the hospital for four days. Due to these illnesses and my increasing difficulty of taking care of the farm from over hundred miles away I asked my parents if they would consider looking at other houses which they did. We found one to buy near my area that has two houses on it , so we sold the farm and bought the new place. the plan was I would live in one they would live in the other and I would take care of them in their final days or months or years whatever it is. I thought at this point I had the rest of their lives lined up and we can live happily ever after as the saying goes fairytales seldom don’t work out that way.
for some reason, my father is now asking me to put a majority of the farm in the main house back in his name and I don’t know what to do. he is mid 80s rather they are mid 80s both of them probably take 12 meds a day both are failing in health. We made about several hundred thousand profit on the farm sale and I’m willing to give that to them directly although would be better to put it in some sort of protected fund to protect for Medicaid.
but I am seriously struggling with why of any logical reason besides pride, he would want the farm put back in his name the new farm all I see happening is me having to take care of them as I would’ve anyway and then Medicaid end up getting everything.
this is eating me up and I don’t know what to do. Please help me with advice. Thank you so much.
PSi suspect he is also getting early stage “Lewys Body Dementia” as he has hand shakes, slow gait, often gets quiet/frozen expression and has a very bad memory. He also has severe prostate issues, sleep issues…
When I tried to discuss the issue with his he gets furious.
Are you planning to go to a facility soon or just eventually if needed?
thank you
Just yesterday dad went in to his doctor for an unrelated medical issue. The doctor wrote “Psychiatric:
Comments: Memory impaired, repeating same questions after thorough answers are given “.
this is the first actual note taken officially by a doctor and it was entirely without my prompting.
You sound like you have your parents' best interests at heart and will continue to do the right thing by them. You should continue to do what you are doing.
I wish you all the best.
One is that the attorney will meet with and make his own evaluation of your father. If he feels your father can’t sign new contracts, he can tell dad he can’t work with him on getting the farm back. If that’s in fact the opinion he forms, however, he may not want to talk with you unless you’re already poa if he has ascertained for himself that dad isn’t cognizant enough to sign over poa.
Im confused by your wanting to “protect” the post-sale cash from Medicaid. Transferring their 500k to you would trigger a new five year lookback period plus gift tax.
I hope the OP speaks plainly with this lawyer about how to best preserve as much as the assets as possible. There is no moral obligation here either. The parents wanted to preserve their assets for their family. That is why they put them in their child's name.
The issue is more that your dad has gotten to the zone with his dementia that he cannot be competent and cognitive. He cannot do any “logical reasoning”. So what I’d be concerned about is if he is around others and can show-dog enough to have others believe his tale of woe is me and they tell him that he has been cheated and swindled or whatever by you AND THEY CAN HELP HIM GET THE LAND BACK. Plenty of those who are out to scam the elderly.
My suggestion is for you to make an appointment with the attorney who did the land deal and go over in minute detail as to precisely how the ownership is done. That it is 100% you and not some undivided interest ownership btwn the 3 of you. Doing undivided interest happens as it’s often suggested as a way to quell fears by others that someone of getting more than their fair share. Tends to eventually become a future legal problem to deal with as one of the group (or better yet their spouse) DNGAF about the property so will not contribute towards any of their share.
Also speaking with the atty gives them a heads up that your Dads cognitive abilities are not what they used to be.
About being eligible for LTC Medicaid, what’s often the better thing to do is for you to pay their NH bill directly if they run out of $ and if this happens within the lookback period. You don’t want to deposit any $ into their own bank accounts as it throws the review of their assets and income off. If they actually do have 300K in savings, they are way waaaaay over the limit for assets for him as a going-into-the-NH spouse (tends to be 2K) and for her as the staying-in-the-community spouse (tends to be abt 160K). I’d also suggest that you ask the atty if his firm will do the LTC application and the segregation of assets needed or if that’s really not what they do and this needs to go to an atty with direct LTC Medicaid application filing experience. The costs for this should come out of their $.
the attorney we meet with in 3 days is an elder care attorney.
thank you
I would say yes to your dad and tell him you will make an appointment with an attorney. Then I would put it off. If he has the beginnings of dementia, he will lose track of time and maybe even forget the request. This puts you in the best position to care for your parents.
My mom still believes she lives at her house (and is in rehab for a bad hip). She thinks she pays her bills and still has everything the way it was. She hasn’t been home since 2022 and hasn’t had her checkbook since leaving home. Her bills are all paid in full or cancelled so I pay only memory care and take care of her personal needs. It really is just a matter I don’t bring up.
Acting in the best interest means sometimes we don’t tell them everything. With the amount of money they have, if it is properly invested, you will never need Medicaid but if you do, you will keep their property the way it is now. Properly invested, their money can make $1-2k a month.
thank you
how can putting the land in a trust now help them? the property was just bought and will not be eligible to be sold for 2 years without major loss. Plus if one goes into a rest home the other will have to have somewhere to live.
i don’t think I follow. Also who else said that? The only person I read talking about trusts used it as an example of how not to have Medicaid take estates.
“Rich families don't lose real estate and other property to old age care needs or tax. No. They put things into Trusts”.
Maybe I just don’t have enough knowledge but the way I see it is it would give the property to the state for no gain to my family or benefit to my parents. The only way that property would help my parents that i know is to sell it.
and they both get monthly pensions and/or SS.
I could eat out of food pantries and supplement with meals on wheels and not have a grocery bill even though I’m wealthy enough to have fisher investments. There would be nothing illegal about it. Same with giving away your property and beating the lookback window. Oh, it’s definitely legal, but Chekhov asked specifically about the moral part. Morally, he should support his parents as if they still had the money to live that lifestyle.
Lealonnie said she spent her entire would be inheritance on her parents’ facilities, which were tailored with beautiful waterfalls and 1-to-1 attention from the aides mom called “her girls.” Mom would have had to leave for a Medicaid home had she outlived her money. Chekhov’s parents would have never outlived theirs. The MORAL thing to do is prioritize their last years being in comparable surroundings as if they still had their money.
Legally, chekhov’s parents now qualify for ihss as they gave everything to Chekhov. Ironically, chekhov can be paid full time by taxpayers to help with them. Chekhov should morally pay him or herself off with the prepaid inheritance.
If the plan was not to make the farm property Medicaid-exempt, then why put the deeds over to Chekhov's name? There would be no reason to do this if the value of the asset was supposed to be spent on nursing home or AL care.
I think it was very decent that the parents want to leave something for their family. Like I said in my post, rich people have been protecting assets through Trusts and property transfers since the days the robber barons of the Guilded Age. Chekhov's parents wanted to do something good for their family. No one should have a moral issue because two people figured out how not to see everything they've earned over a lifetime get gobbled up in no time by the obscene greed of a nursing home.
There is no moral issue here. Chekhov's parents care about their family and want to leave something for them.
Your parents took the farm out of their names six years ago so it would become a Medicaid-exempt asset. Good for them trying to look after their family and leave something. Putting it back in your father's name after six years would be ridiculous. It would just get handed over to a nursing home or some other type of care.
Buying two separate homes (keep both in your name though) then using the remaining money to hire live-in help for them could work in your situation. It's worth a try. If one or both need to go into a NH, they will be able to and every cent they ever had won't have to be handed over.
The farm has been in your name for six years. So that means the proceeds from the sale of it are also in your name. No worries about losing everything. Try homecare. If they need to be placed, you can do that. Good luck.
In most countries there is some legal power of attorney for proxies to at on behalf of vulnerable people. this ensures against elder abuse and ensures their money is used for their benefit. So if there is anything like that in the US (I'm guessing there must be) this would seem like your route. Good luck sounds like you have been very good and done your best for them so I hope it works out.
The problem isn't that Medicaid care facilities are under-funded. Not at all. They are paid a king's ransom by Medicaid for every resdient in one. The problem is the insatiable corporate greed that is allowed to continue off it's leash like a rabid dog.
The moral thing to do is here is not inject your parent into anything other than the care situation they would have been able to afford had they not given you all their wealth.
The property is another matter.
FYI, my MIL was on Medicaid in an excellent faith-based non-profit LTC facility for 7 years. I'll go there myself if I make it that far. It's usually county-run facilities that are nasty Medicaid facilities. My SFIL was in one.
And, did you know that in some states there are special rules surrounding family farms? My Son-in-law grew up on a family farm in rural Pennsylvania so I know there are rules that protect them. Everyone in your family acted out of assumptions. Now it's your turn to actually consult with a certified elder law or estate planning attorney so you don't screw it up when you wish to pass it on to your kids/grandkids (assuming they can afford to maintain it, pay the taxes, pay the insurance, etc). Go into your sunset years with your eyes fully open.
I know of more than 1 who has had this. And the ranches were big, like sections. Not acres but “sections” as you need lots of acres per head. Like 100 acres for range and 30 acres for plains per head. You’re going to want to have at least 1/2 dz head so that you can belong to the various Cattlemen’s associations for insurance and lending which establishes its “working”. It’s all exempt for Estate Recovery. And more often than not, the land has O&G / mineral rights but done as undivided interest for ownership. Undivided interest = asset that isn’t recoverable. It’s included as an asset for the LTC Medicaid application but it’s not recoverable,
i think your best point is my main weakness. I was always in awe and afraid of my dad (a former boxer he worked out with Cassius Clay). I need to somehow get my frame of mind out of “how can I make him/them happy” to “what is best for the whole family and them”. I have to admit I have grandkids and I don’t want the majority of the farm to go to Medicaid as I wish to pass it down , if that is selfish I guess I’m guilty.
thank you.
PS no I do not have power of attorney
This is not a moral issue but a financial and legal one.
No, there will be tax consequences and not to mention there is no reason or benefit to do it. He's probably getting paranoid due to cognitive decline. Very common in elders with dementia. It's a hard no. You are to manage affairs in their best interests and this wouldn't qualify.
Think of it this way: they are not paying you directly for your time and the wear and tear on your body that this ongoing managment and caregiving is creating so them signing the farm over to you is basically payment. I'm an only also and my Mom sold her house to me for same reasons. If she asked me to sell it or sign it back over to her, it'd be a hard no.
Tell your Dad that the lawyer and accountant both say No, then change the subject. Don't allow his mind to dwell on it. I surey hope you have PoA for both your parents in order to legally manage their affairs. I hope you don't regret moving them into a house rather than a good facility so that you can go on with your life.
i realize I should not have used the verb “back”.
which to me speaks of something wrong with his cognitive abilities as he put the old farm in my name 6+ years ago to avoid the irs/medicaid.
thank you
which is why I don’t want to put it back wholly in his name.
thanks again.
I don't think this is a moral dilemma, but more a practical one. If the family property was handed to you more than 6 years ago, then sold to buy a new residence, it benefits your parents (and you) that they no longer have property in their names. The only morality issue I struggle with is if you are holding hundreds of thousands of dollars profit from the sale of the original farm property. You could be using that money to pay for their care needs. When that money runs out, they would be eligible for Medicaid benefits. Medicaid would not take your property if it is in your name.
If your father has some loss of cognitive function, then his requests regarding the handling and ownership of property should not be considered valid. It is no use arguing with him, because you can't explain logic to someone with dementia.
Do you have POA for your parents? Or at least Medical POA? That would be ideal. If you do not have POA, but they handed property to you legally many years ago, which you now manage and own, then you already have control over their finances. It is up to you to act in their best interest.
Taking care of your aging parents next door is becoming too much for you, and their care needs are becoming increasingly complicated. It is not uncaring for a child to place their parents in a care home which can meet their needs. You are not qualified to manage medical cares and to understand the special care dementia patients require.
I applaud you for trying to respect your father’s wishes, while recognizing that what he wants may not be in anyone’s best interests. I would be open with the attorney about your misgivings of his cognitive state.
With dad, I’d just “actively listen” and invite him to go with you to your estate lawyer where he explains the advantages to dad while also observing dad’s behavior. If he feels dad isn’t sufficiently cognitive, he can’t cooperate in dad signing any new contracts.