Is it normal she's so negative?

Do you have a Savers there? My Mom is 94 and very with it. She loves clothes and when she moved into an independent living apartment I took her to this Savers store where you can buy all kinds of used items: clothes, household stuff: it's like an ongoing flea market. So Mom thought this store was more beneficial on her mind and body (and getting exercise walking around this large store). We started calling it Dr. Savers! It saved our relationshop too. The mother daughter strain was eased by bringing her there and I had little breaks by going off on my own: first a little at a time and then for longer periods. She barely noticed my not being with her: she was having fun picking up items. Mom and I realized you can buy stuff and if you didn't like the item, donate it back to the store, then you get percentages off on your next (already cheap) purchase. That's how we ended up swapping out old stuff for better old stuff! We go there almost every week and include eating out or I make her lunch or supper.

Our closets and furniture have downsized and we had so much fun cleaning out our old junk. Now we have two separate apartments. I thank God I don't have to go through what you are living.

Find a million ways to take care of yourself and find something that pleases you every single day; while you are caregiving. My admiration and sympathy for your struggle.

Moving? Put doubtful items in boxes, then in storage rather than discussing with the negative person. Not discussing something helps decrease stress. Remember, it is easier to apologize later than to ask permission. Moving is very stressful already, without having to sort thru a lifetime of stuff. Sort it all out later. Have Mum help pack the boxes by watching what goes into them? This may not work, depending upon her illness. Best regard to you and your Mum in your new apartment/flat.

Rembering previous advice here on agingcare: It is the illness, not her. Try not to take it personal, but I know I cannot do that yet. Keep venting, that will help, plus the fact that there are too many people out loud wishing that No One on here dies.

Jude, keep hanging in there. Your Mum could not live without you!

I think she is secretly hoping I do!!!

In case someone *dies*..??!!

Question is, did *she* have anyone in mind? Hope you've got her good hat at the ready, too :)

Can I heck as Like CM - she can't find her black coat (which incidentally I have packed not charitied) and she now wants me to fish it out in case someone dies. You really don't want to know what my first thought was because it's not big, its not clever and Im not proud of it.

Unbelievably stressful task, Jude; but hey you'll be glad you got it done. In the end. Can you get her to focus on the favourite things she's still got?

I do try to KAK but sometimes Mum manages to hit that really horrible button where you will do almost anything to stop it. With mum it is when she turns to nagging. Now I live in the UK and I live with Mum 24/7 so I am on hand a bit more than some.

I try to avoid additional pressure so I thought it would be a really sensible move to sell up and go to a flat(Apartment)!!!! Jings if only I had known the stress that would cause.

Well we sold our house, we have managed to find a beautiful apartment and it is stunning but now we need to downsize OBVIOUSLY.

I brought all Mums clothes down so that she could decide keep/ charity /dispose of. Easy peasy I thought. Oh heavens to Betsy - no it isn't. She got rid of 2 things the first time. Then constantly nagged and nagged until eventually I couldn't bear it any longer and in the second run she threw 4 things out. Well this has gone on for 4 weeks now - luckily moves in the UK take forever it seems.

The last attempt was 2 days ago and I got her to throw about 50% of her stuff - the charity bags were being collected Friday and so it was spot on timing - YAY...............so so wrong Oh jings now it is worse than ever because she just wants to 'check' she made the right choices....erm too late they have gone to charity Mum

It is 8:34 am Mum has been awake for 2 hours and she has asked to check 13 times so far and I want to scream....a lot

Right now I am hiding because I swear if she say she wants to check one more time I will have to walk away for at least 2 hours to get my sanity back

Wise as a serpent and innocent as a dove. I will try and remember that one! Thanks!

Sometimes when you are KAI, it might feel like your KA but actually you are showing more real and healthy love by not caving in. The queen may even try to shame you by saying you are KAing her when actually you are KAIing. Don't fall for the shame and guilt trap. Despise the shame game like that article I posted the link so advised. Be wise as a serpent, but innocent as a dove.

Thank you, CMagnum! I want to KA! Actually, KAK--Kiss Ass Kindly! I have to find that balance where I address my provblem while still being reasonably respectful and kind. I do take Lorazapam, and that helps keep me more level than anything else I have tried. I don't take much--just enough to take the edge off. My primary care physician has been helpful. I learned that the counselor I was going to call is having a ton of her own personal issues, so I have to find out about some other good counselors. I am very grateful to you--you have steered me to some excellent bibliotherapy and I am reading -- so grateful!

njny1952,

Good news! Try not to hate yourself for how you have been is how you were groomed to be and you are not at fault for that. You now have self awareness and see what is going on which is great!!! That is much further than many people ever get. Yes, it will be an up and down experience with a few steps forward followed by some backward, but overall making some progress toward the goal.

Probably an anti-anxiety med possibly would help you while you work through these other things which take enough emotional energy. This is one valid use of such meds because not everyone struggling with anxiety has an anxiety diagnosis. Their anxiety is dependent upon the situation. That is something to consider and ask your therapist about once you meet with them. Your primary care doctor should be able to prescribe you a basic anti-anxiety med.

Take care and keep coming back so that we can support you and know how you are doing! KA which stands for Kick Ass!

I just discovered that my key trigger for focusing on my mother almost to the exclusion of everything else is when she says she is depressed or acts it. Then I go into automatic, autonomic overdrive. I feel it is my responsibility to fix everything, and right away! I think it IS all related to guilt, obligation, and almost paralyzing fear. I fool myself and feel like I am getting better and then wham, I am stunned into thinking I am going nowhere. My heart almost seems to stop--I get so nervous and anxiety ridden. I am noticing physical changes--almost panic attacks. BUT THIS IS GOOD! I am analyzing my situation and facing it squarely in its ugly face. My books arrived today. I will be reading for sure. I hate how I am--hate it. I guess this will be an up-and-down process but I will try so hard to keep my eye on the goal. FREEDOM to be me and not be stuck in a mucky bunch of FOG. Thanks to all who are hanging in there with me. What would I do without you?

Njny, that's a good move, just to tell mom, can't talk now, we'll see you in a while. It's a smart tactic. Baby steps!

Hi all--my grandson is here and I am crazy busy. But still very focused on getting this codependency/addiction with my mother reduced or possibly, unimaginably, gone? Today's thought: I am working hard to be honest with myself and recognize when I am doing too much to try and please her, and when she is taking up too much space in my head. I am celebrating those little victories, like yesterday she kept calling and I was trying to have conversations with my grandson so I reminded her I would see her in just a few hours and told her I couldn't talk anymore. That sounds so normal for anyone else to say--no one would even think twice about it--but it was big for me since I have been trying so hard to do anything and everything to please her. P.S. The dog went back but that was sad for her. She is Trying to find another dog, but I am trying not to lead the charge. This is all very hard work because I am trying to change nearly 60 years of mommy pleasing behaviors. However, I was more rebellious when I was younger--I need to remember who I was back then! Thanks again and again for everyone's contributions to this blog. You are helping to save me!

I like your way of thinking Lynnemk. If others had good memories of your mom then she brought them some happiness.

A lot of people love my mom and find her great and humorous, etc., and tell me what a wonderful lady she is. I don't argue with it, but I know she's damaged from a rough childhood and some sort of mental illness. Heck, as a little kid she'd apparently talk about committing suicide and do things to draw attention -- even bad attention was good because it was attention. Just sadly she and I don't get along well anymore.

She's cut off contact with everyone over the years. Every family member, and every friend. No friendship of hers is older than 10 years, and the oldest friendships are the most frayed; the newest ones are the happiest and dearest. She simply gets tired of people and finds fault with them and dumps them. I sometimes worry that in six months she'll hate her neighbors and think they stole from or gossiped about her and then she'll call with a whole bunch of harsh words and accusations and I'll be expected to drive her around and hear endless talk of how I abandoned and betrayed her, even though in the last 5 years she's probably written or called me about 10 times and told me never to contact her again!

But if she makes other people happy and they make her happy, so be it. More power to them. Sometimes you just have to live in now.

HELLO Friends!!! It has been weeks since I have been on and wow have I missed out. I agree, this thread kind of went slow and I made some decisions to stay away from my mom, so I felt it was best to let it all rest for a while. I am still no contact with my mom and it feels so GOOD! I still, at times, find myself in a guilt, pity party, type of day. I get down and wish it would all go away. Then I have to remind myself that it is gone--for the most part. I realize she is still around and therefore I realize at any minute the phone could ring and it be her on the other end. I have promised myself "I will NOT answer". If it is an emergency, she can leave a message. I really do not want to talk to her or see her. I am loving being less stressed and less anxious. I will say the repercussions of the stress are starting to show up now that I have slowed down. The doctor has asked me to do some blood work and I am fearful of what lies in the answers.

Yes, how dare us to put our family--husbands, kids, grandkids, or ourself, before our mothers. I got so tired of hearing "well, I am your mother", I can't believe you would do that over your mother. It makes me angry to write it. Ha! I am so glad I am not hearing that anymore.

Making some changes is difficult, it took me 5 years--well actually over 40 years, but the last 5 years were pure h*ll. I am so thankful that I was able to finally make those changes for myself and my family. One day at a time is all we can do. Nijny: I am glad to see you are finally searching for those changes. Now that you have time to sit and contemplate things, you will make the right choices for you and your family. Your mom will be just fine. I learned that the hard way, but we do not want to end up like them. Our health--mind and body, is just as important as theirs if not more important.

I wish I could respond to everyone. There are many great ideas, stories, and thoughts. My mom hasn't been very nice to the caregivers at AL and the director has had to talk to her about it. I try to keep up with what is going on without her knowing. Nothing has changed with her except she doesn't have me to use as a punching bag. My aunt hasn't been to my mom's in over a month and my mom hasn't called her either. I am sure she is lying in her bed in a pity party and pouting at everyone. She did a lot of damage in the first month I didn't talk to her. She blamed everything on me, of course, and called the bank, the attorney and tried to tell everyone I was cheating her and taking from her. Well, so far nothing has come of that. The bank did send her a statement. So now she sees I only pay out for her rent. I wish I didn't have to do that, but I am working on that too. I NO LONGER get her medicine and I no longer worry about it. She is very capable of calling the pharmacy and the doctor and when she can't do it, they do it from the AL for her. Yay for good caregivers. Even if it uses up all her resources. I will tell you that she will out live her money.

I had a friend to lose her mom this morning and another friend's dad had a stroke and they are just keeping him comfortable and waiting. Then there is my mom sitting in misery and making everyone else's life miserable. Who knows the reasons, but I am thankful every day I do not have to talk to her and can handle her business from a distance.--2 miles down the road...Ha!!

Good evening and it was so good reading everyone's post. Take care. One thing that I heard the other day from Joel Osteen made me think: He said, "Some say good morning Lord, thank you for another day" and some of us say, "good Lord it's morning"... ((chuckle)) I now try to say "good morning, Lord" instead of "good Lord it's morning"...There is a rainbow in every storm. Love to all!!

My mother did not drink so I cannot identify with that but she had an undiagnosed issue we never could pinpoint what it was until I had my son. I love them both dearly but could spot various similarities in their personalities. He has had various borderline issues. Anyway we grow up living with what we are dealt for parents good bad or indifferent. They are our family, I have been over whelmed with the kind words of friends, peers and family who never saw my mother other then a kind, sweet person, She worked at my school growing up and was involved in community groups so I am glad for many great qualities she exhibited to others. people accepted her for her and that was very humbling to me now that she has passed. She loved us and she trusted us enough to be honest with how she really felt, the Dementia and illness she had in the end was more then she bargained for and could not handle what it did in limiting her independence.

Ah, Lynnemk, I'm not sure about that. I've read of lots of crazy cases. My mom did at least make sure I did my homework and made sure there was food on the table. ... that I had a good winter coat. We camped and traveled more when I was a kid, so she tried. I think when she started drinking more heavily that didn't help things, and she's either a crying or an angry drunk. Finally when she cut back on drinking other problems started to emerge, like the dementia.

I try to think more of those positive types of things -- it doesn't always work -- but I try. She's just so damaged in her ways and now with the onset of dementia, it's a loss. I used to feel really upset that I had friends who could do things with their moms -- you know, like a shopping day or brunch -- and then just thought, OK, the weirdness and the hardships, I think they helped mold me in some positive ways. I've got interesting stories about her, and I have learned as much from her what to do as what not to do. Both have value. Not everybody gets June Cleaver. Biggest help is knowing I wasn't the only one to have an odd upbringing. It would have been nice to find kindred spirits at age 13, but better late than never!

Heidi73 you win, you have the drama queens of all mothers to the worst degree. We all take on our mothers because they are our mothers we feel we need to look out for them. It seems to be an unwritten right of passage one of the kids takes it upon ourselves to be taken in by what ever they tell us. Why would they lie, they have our unconditional love and attention. But they seem to relish in making our lives as a dependency, we always be there for what ever they choose to need.

Nijny, my mom has been dying since 1984.

I remember being 11 and she threw up or something or had stomach pains and I asked about it, and she said she had stomach cancer. I was horrified, terrified I'd lose my mom. Then nothing happened, no treatment, etc., and she then in 1995 got osteoporosis and nothing was done for that either, then colon cancer (because they removed polyps), then angina (for some reason), and countless other ailments. The ones that had no basis in fact, she ignored except to make up a story to amuse herself for a day. She used to put her arm in a sling or carry a crutch around to get people to ask about her arm or if she'd twisted her ankle, so it's all attention.

In between she had real problems with blood sugar and would faint. Scared me to no end at 13, because I didn't dare calling an ambulance and risk making my mom furious, and she'd come around in a few minutes. She never did anything for that. Won't tell the doctor about it either. Got mad when I mentioned it to the doctor years later. Another time she ate raw bacon and I mentioned it to the doctor because she got so sick and dehydrated she had to go to the hospital. I betrayed her by sharing a "private matter." Said they were laughing at her and I should be ashamed.

And yet she smokes three packs a day and says her lungs are perfect. When I asked years later why she made up the stomach cancer, she said "I was just being eccentric!"

Sure it's funny now in its ways, but tell your 11-year-old that you're going to die of cancer in six months. It sure wasn't funny then!

With your mom in independent living, this is a great time to live independently of her as well.

Why should the narcissist have all of the independence when the truly independent one can truly live more independent than the the narcissist in independent living?

Dang. Go for as much independence as your heart can be filled with!

I"m glad that you found us and that we can cheer you on and be part of your united, shared trauma and recovery team! Keep moving forward as you are.

I am VERY committed to change now and you are all helping. I don't think I have ever felt so determined. My mother told me since she was in her late 70's that she probably wouldn't live past 81, then 82, and you get the picture. Now that she is 88, I have struggled with trying to honor her age, so I basically did everything she wanted when she wanted it. But she is pretty darned healthy as far as I know and sharp as a tack most of the time. Literally! :-). If she does get sick I will be there to help, but even then it is a slippery slope. I am going to cover my insides with "caution!" signs so I am on High alert NO MATTER WHAT. I don't know if I could do it without all of you. Your stories help us become a United part of a shared trauma and recovery. I am so grateful. IT IS NEVER TOO LATE! Yay!

My mother is the same. She expected me to put her first above everyone else in my life. That did happen at times earlier in my life, as she created such drama, but hasn't for a while. It means the disease runs everyone's life - not good.

njny - I am glad you see it is not too late - never too late to make healthy changes. Your life can vastly improve. Learn to detach, detach, detach!

Oh my, an adult child who has honored their spouse and marriage above their mom!? How much abandonment drama does a borderline queen mother create in response to such a healthy choice! So what! Dam the torpedoes. Full speed ahead!

Heidi--oh my gosh. I can so relate. How dare we choose a child, husband or grandchild above her relatively minor needs?! The nerve!

Sandwich has some very good points. As soon as I started making strides to do more my own thing, that's when my mom kicked up the drama. When I stopped doing things exactly how she wanted them done, then I betrayed her. A decision to dye my hair red instead of blonde like hers was a launching point about how ugly it made me because I didn't look like her so much. You can imagine what deciding to take a vacation without her was like, or that I actually chose my husband above her meant.

Emjo--thank you for the "it is never too late" comment. I have felt like a failure so often. I now believe it is never too late.

Oh my gosh ! Thank you everyone for your support and encouragement. My grandson is here and on the ride back from the airport I jotted down baby-step victories such as not calling her back right away and reminding myself that I am not part of her--that I am a separate person--and need to live my own life (no matter how tricky a road I need to follow !). I will call the counselor this week and keep up my focus. Your entries are amazing. Each one of you has a wonderful tip for me. I am going to start keeping a journal. I love the tornado analogy and the warning that as I change she will fight to keep everything the same by amping up the drama. I feel as though I will need to hold on for dear life. P.S. The dog is going back tomorrow. My mother, grandson, the dog and I are traveling a couple of hours to take him back. Another long day but it will be easier because my grandson and she get along great. I have a lot of love In my heart and I love you all. Truly.

Family has a huge hold on us. I barely talk to my mother and even on some imaginary level I want her approval. I think I've just faded to the background because I'm exhausted. I spent my first 30 years wanting her approval in overt and subtle ways, and then when I started finding my way and married, and try to do my own thing, and it's a betrayal to her. I figure I need to make myself happy and I'm always going to be haunted by her on some level.