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Yes, counseling will help.

For me, that particular kind of guilt was a lot more complicated. Guilt is very simple, and this mess was not simple.

I had to accept the fact that *I* cannot rescue her anymore. I have done a lot of rescuing for her since dad died in the 80s. I had run out of rescue, plain & simple.

Mom had programmed me to feel bad about being an individual, about having my own space, my own thoughts, my own opinions. I was supposed to be an extension of herself, not my own person. I had MAKE myself be OK with knowing what I want, when I want it, how I want it, and what I will and won't do.

I had to MAKE myself learn to say no and stop being a people pleaser. Other peoples' emotions about me and what I do is THEIR problem, not mine. Even mom. Especially mom.

Then I felt guilty about feeling guilty because I let her win when I felt guilty. Isn't that crazy? But it's true. It is a really destructive and sick thinking cycle to get trapped in.

Look at it this way. You have the emotional equivalent of a broken back. You need time, space, and support to heal properly. People with broken backs don't go out and do gymnastics the next day. Working with a parent who has issues is the emotional equivalent of doing gymnastics.

Rest, recuperation, protection, and time will heal you. Go literally write yourself a pass to get out of emotional gymnastics with your mother. When you think you are going to attempt a flip, read your hall pass. Go back to R&R and stay there until you are completely healthy!
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Thank you looloo... I am, but I still struggle with the guilt. I feel guilty not doing for her like I did or like I feel I should. I read a quote that stated: "Leaving is not a sign of weakness, but a sign of strength". That is so true...it takes lots of strength to walk away and mean it.

Today the doctor's office called and left a message that they would be in town and wanted to know if it would be okay to stop and see my mom. I didn't call them back, I have told them to call her already and I am really trying to back off more. I do not know if they stopped by today and fine if they didn't. My aunt also was so upset last night when she left, that she didn't get my mom's medicine at the pharmacy. Oh well... my mom paid someone at AL to do it last week, she can do the same this week. I am really trying here. The more I back off the more guilty I feel. Hopefully, counseling with help with that.
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Jewel, you sound 1000 times stronger and happier! Good for YOU! :)
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I survived Mother's Day.
My mom stopped by on my birthday as I guess a semi-peace offering. I figure I won't fight it. Her neighbors brought her by and there was no squabbling because it wasn't just her and me.
So on Mother's Day I stopped by, dreading it, because if I'm alone with her she invariably starts the trash talk. I actually found an old Xanax and split it in half and took before going there, which probably helped tremendously. But it went well.
My husband stopped in briefly after work, and we had a bit of soup she'd made, then he left and I lingered a bit. Her neighbor came by a bit, too.
The neighbor kept saying, "your mom is a sweet lady, so smart. I wish my mom had been more like her, because all my mom did was talk badly about people and complain about the past." I didn't say anything but inside I was laughing, because that describes my mom to a T.
But she likes her neighbors and hopefully they'll stay friends -- she never seems to keep friendships longer than a year these days. When I left she actually hugged me and apologized for the last squabble. That was ... surprising. I figure, oh well, leave on good terms. I'll be civil as best I can but I don't want to hear the "I'll kill myself if you don't get me cigarettes by noon" or any of that, or the accusations or trash talk. We've gone through it all before. Oddly, I didn't really feel close to my mom, though. It's been bad for more than a decade, but since we had a couple good days, I'll take them for what they are.
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YES!!! Mother's Day is over. I enjoyed my Mother's Day with my children and husband. I did have some guilt throughout the day because I did not contact or see my mom. I did send her a card. I am assuming, as LooLoo does, that she received it. I am so happy that she didn't contact me about the card. I do not want to hear from her. My mom ONLY calls when she needs something or thinks of something that I did not do or need to do. She has never just called to check on me or my family. She ALWAYS has a motive for calling and it usually always has something to do with her. They had a Mother's Day brunch at the AL and I did NOT go! Again, the guilt didn't settle well, but I am so glad I stood my ground. Even though she thinks she is standing her ground because, as always, she didn't do anything. This is not about begrudging her, this is about my own inner peace.--something I have been searching after for years.

My aunt came to get my mom yesterday to sign the papers to settle out my grandmother's estate.--if we remember, she didn't want me anywhere near this since she don't trust me. It is my understanding my mom acted like herself at the bank. She speaks to my aunt and my uncle but says her thoughts out loud--and I mean she talks out loud. The bank is downtown and in a weird place--not much parking, etc. So after they go in my mom starts complaining to my aunt but out loud--"I thought it was the law they had to have handicapped parking?" "It is a shame you have to walk to get to the front door" "I have never seen a place that doesn't have a handicapped ramp" blah blah blah. She became angry because they asked my aunt to sign papers since she was named executor since my mom was ill and my uncle didn't have time to help out. My mom also complained about her signing the papers. "Well, I didn't need to come, this was a waste of time" on and on. Then she complained at my aunt and accused her once again for being the favorite and cheating her out of money and my grandmother's things. It is really sad that she truly believes this. I wish I could say it is her mind, but this is the true her. She is so much herself and it is really hard to be around. It just all brings back memories of how it always was and how it will always be.

Life was difficult when she was more ill, but seeing her 70% back to herself is much more difficult. At least before I could blame it on her illness. Now, it is just her.--the same mother I have had for 47 years.

Sandwich--That is hilarious!!! The page may end with "It's all about me"
or "It's your duty, no thank you needed".

Lonely and miserable a very sad situation. I cannot imagine how sad they are. I just will not be dragged down with her anymore. My husband reminded me on Mother's Day that I have done everything I can and that I should know that if something did happen to my mom that I can rest at night knowing that I would have no regrets. this is so true. My only regret is that I didn't stand up for myself years ago.
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Lol, Sandwich! A blank page....
I've been having my mother's mail forwarded for going on two years now, so how she's getting information to mail donations is a mystery. I do UPS her her magazines, and always remove the cards inside so she doesn't re subscribe, but maybe she sees ads for charities and does it that way? The charities that advertise are reputable, and the dollar amounts aren't too worrisome, but it's apparent that she is doing this willy nilly.
And I would LOVE to be able to remove her checks, but she gets obsessive about them. She's gone through brief periods of check-writing, and then stops. So I am hoping she stops again. If I say anything or she notices they're gone, then there's a good chance she'll have her caregiver take her to the bank, and that is the last thing I want.
VStefans, yes, they are very unhappy people, and I do feel sorry for them for that.
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It is sad and hard on not just those of us who have lost our mothers, but even more so those of us who have never really had them. Hugs to all who needed hugs from Mom and didn't get them. Blessings to all who learned to give them out and bring unconditional love into their lives and families despite the bad example! And ultimately, forgiveness for those mothers who had some unspoken obstacle in the way of being moms that they never overcame...they pay a heavy price in loneliness and alienation for their faults.
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Looloo -
If I wrote a book about "Narcissist Thank You Notes in History", it would be a book with one blank page in it.

I've had that stomach ache you describe. You should maybe take the checkbook, postage stamps, and debit card with you when you leave so they aren't so handy for mom anymore.

Can you have her mail forwarded to your house instead? That was the first thing I did with my mom when things were going south. She couldn't remember if she had mail or not.

The "phases" depend on the specific type of dementia(s) the person has. It's really just guesstimation based on certain behavioral and cognitive abilities gathered in studies over time. Like being able to draw ten minutes to 11:00 on a clock face.Or being able to tell if one shape is bigger or smaller than the others next to it. Being able to explain dosing directions, balance a check book, and independently prepare oatmeal on the stove. There are other tests, but these are common tasks. Google "dementia cognitive evaluation" and you'll get lots of samples.
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Hi everyone! Mother's Day is over for another year, yahoo :). Seriously, though, I hope you all had a lovely day without any nonsense.
I don't have kids, and this was the first Mother's Day that I didn't do anything except send her flowers, which were scheduled to be delivered this past Thursday. I will assume they were delivered and were lovely, since per my mother's usual behavior, she did not acknowledge them. Last year, I called the florist to confirm they were delivered ok, but this year, I just don't care.
My mother is still able to call when she needs/wants something. She called on Wednesday last week, so I know this for sure. She wanted to give me the knews that her sister died several days previously. I said, "Yes, __ called me and let me know. I'm sorry. How are you doing?" She sounded ok, but annoyed that I was already told. She said, "Well....she had a long life." She seems to have a harder time with open ended questions, I'm noticing. I said, "That's true." Again, I sense irritation coming over the phone. I think it's that continuous simmering anger and dislike she has for me, that I always felt, all my life, but could never put my finger on it (or just admit it). Now it's so darn obvious. Sigh.... Well, I can't say it's not mutual.
Anyway, she is perfectly able to call when she wants attention, sympathy, a favor, whatever. But to say thank you for a gift? Nope!
I'm preparing to drive down to her place next week, and will check things out while her caregiver is taking her to her annual checkup. I'll be drafting an update letter for the doctor this week, and when I'm down there, I have a list of things to do while she's out of the house. I need to check all her clothes and see what needs replacing. I have to get her sizes, and will measure the length of her pants w/a tape measure, in case anything I order needs altering. I have to check socks, underwear, everything -- ugh. The idea of doing this gives me a stomach ache.
She's also started to write checks again, to various charities, for various amounts. So I have to go through her papers and see what is getting through, and get rid of whatever it is.
And I will get a large trash bag and empty out her freezer a bit. It must be about to explode.
I think that's about it. I'll only have an hour, and being in the house panics me so much that I'll be racing around like a lunatic getting everything done, leaving no trace, and getting outa there.
Her confusion and forgetfulness seem to be getting worse, but nothing else as far as daily living skills. I have no idea what "stage" she could possibly be in - how are they able to determine that anyway, when every person seems so different?
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When I visited a counselor the first couple sessions were me just rambling on and on. She let me speak, asking questions and then once she had an idea the big problems were we'd focus on that.
I think sometimes you just want to vomit (not literally, obviously) all these thoughts and feeling out.
At that time I didn't know anyone else going through what I was. All my friends had younger mothers (mine had me at 35 and has a lot of bad habits -- drinking heavily for years, chain smoking, probable mental illness) so everyone else had this normal mom who they'd shop with or go have brunch with or who they could talk to and I realized I never had much of that. Sure my mom did things with me, taking me camping when I was a kid, etc, but I also had to play mom to her when she drank too much. Hell, I had to get the money she stashed under a mattress at age 16, so I could bail her out when she got a DUI, and all I could think of was, why am I doing this, especially since I was still in high school. Therapy is a great place to let all that out, why don't we have a more "normal" relationship, etc.

I was thinking with Mother's Day coming up, I'm not sure what to do. It's a bit more of a tense day for me. My birthday is always around Mother's Day, and to be honest I have some issues. I don't care if I have a party or whatever. I'm fine to go see a movie or enjoy some pizza with my hubby, but for so many years my mom has tried to take over Mother's Day and/or my birthday. One year she treated me to dinner and got falling-down drunk and I had to keep an eye on her -- I kept thinking it's my birthday and what do I want: For my mom not to order yet another beer. In some ways many years ago she tried to make it a nice day and I appreciated that, but in other ways she clearly made it all about her, buying gifts for me that she'd wanted herself, or buying the flavor of cake she liked and so on. Then I'd be trying to figure out the right thing to get her, considering her tastes -- she'd love a white purse because it screams summer to her, etc.
Now I'm lucky enough to have a husband who listens to me, and man, what a luxury that is, to mention a book by an author I love and to get it for my birthday. Just being listened to, to be heard!
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Jewel, glad you're going to the counselor. Hope she continues to be helpful. When I first went to a therapist, I was "in crisis" and everything was so overwhelming, I'm sure I didn't know where to start and probably was all over the map. Eventually, I started to write down things I wanted to talk about, things that occurred to me between sessions. I didn't want my $ to go to waste, and wanted to focus on certain things, so this helped. I felt kind of silly pulling out my list, but so what :)
I also vividly remember being very protective of my parents when discussing them. I think the first things I mentioned were how I "knew they loved me", "they did the best they could" and so on. It wasn't until maybe a year later, that it spilled out, totally surprising me. I said something about how my parents' relationship was "actually pretty twisted" or words to that effect. And from that moment on, well, I started to face things in a way I hadn't up to that point. It did feel weird and somewhat disloyal, but by the time those words came out of my mouth, I was ready to say them.
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A year is ridiculous can you not speed it through with a Psych geriatrician. he got the pace of Mum in less than 2 hours and he wasn't shy of telling me or of putting it in writing to her GP either 1 week later we all had written confirmation. I know UK rules are different but h*ll bells a YEAR?
You dont have to remain a POA you know - have a look at the POA it should (if it has been done properly) give you the details of how to resign as POA and just to empower you further - there's not a damned thing your Mum can do about it except leave all her assets to a dogs home to spite you! If you accept that then resign hun and be freed from the ties that bind
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My mom has not been deemed legally incompetent. That takes months even a year in court. She is so manipulative that she can fool anyone into thinking she is just fine. She is much better as I have stated but she cannot take care of herself. If she were alone, she would go right back the way she was--unable to cook for herself and bathe. She would be come a mess once again, but she doesn't see that. I just know now she is safe and has people to look after her.

I went to see the counselor today. I know I rambled on and on. Then I couldn't keep the conversation to one topic...too much to tell. She asked me about mother's day coming up and what my plans were. I told her I thought about sending a card and that was it. At first she suggested some other things, then into the conversation, she realized what we were dealing with and changed her mind--a card is sufficient. I would not send anything if it were truly up to me, I just feel guilty more if I don't. Eventually, I hope to get passed this and have some peace. In case you are wondering, yes, I made a second appointment. I cannot tell you, though, how hard it was. I felt like once again, I was going against my mom.--hopefully this will pass too. One other thing I learned from therapy today--I have an angel for a husband. I never thought of it quiet like this, but I really do. He may do other things that annoy me, but he is a saint to put up with my mom and my desire to please her so much. One good thing so far that is coming out of this mess!

Babalou--I am ready for NO POWER!! Even though she has all the power, I am ready to relinquish so much with her. Not just her bank account, but all the emotions and anxiety that goes with the abuse she has dished out for years.

Have a great evening, I plan on it too!!
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Jewel; I'm with CM, and I think perhaps I had suggested this a few weeks ago. It may be time to let your mom's poa go and let her become a ward of the state; they will appoint a guardian and you will be able to tell her that you have NO POWER at all.
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If shes legally competent then I agree with CM but if she isnt she cant change it now anyway because assigning a POA requires capacity to understand store explain and give rationale accoring to the psych who saw mum (who incidentally scores 0 out of 4). meanwhile make sure you have all the receipts and bills and what they were for - if she's goingto challenge you need to be prepared hun. AND dont tell her you are doing it. Get copies from the NH if need be but make sure you can account for the money spent - I even have a petty cash book so that when I buy little things (which by the way sure as h*ll soon mount up) I can keep a record of them. Mum told her friend that I was spending her money like water. What she failed to tell them was her bank balance had increased by 2k over the last 4 months so I am obviously not spending it fast enough!!!!!
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Jewel, I'm sorry but I've lost track - is your mother legally competent or not? If she is, and I were you, I'd resign that POA right now.
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mean is not id
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Oh Jeweltone, your Mother and My Father sound like they are related. He has done so many terrible things to me that I have had it. Blocking Mom's care because he does not want to spend ANY money on her. Tried to get me off his POA as your Mother id doing. Know it hurts a lot. Will write to you again but have to get some sleep. I could write a book.
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Well, it happened. My mom finally got the nerve to contact the attorney. She has told them she is considering dropping me as POA and she wants a copy of the POA to read. She had a copy but when she moved I just never took her one. I didn't see any point in her needing it. The POA is for me. Now she is questioning what I had her sign. She is now saying that I had her sign stuff that she didn't agree to. She is quizzing the bank more and they won't give her any info over the phone so now she is hunting someone to take her to the bank. It never ends. She will not give up until she can "prove" that I am a thief. I am not concerned about what I have needed to do to take care of her, but I am concerned about how she will handle things. I cannot believe she is pushing this as far as she is. This makes me not want to talk to her even more.--which I still haven't had contact, this is from someone who has talked with her.

I found out why she called my daughter. She called her about giving her bday money. Now she is mad because my daughter didn't come by to get her money.--First off, how was she supposed to know she had money for her when she didn't leave a message and second, my mom hasn't given her bday money in 4 years--she has had me write a check out of her account and give it to her. Last year she didn't mention it and this year I didn't do it under the circumstances. The wind just keeps blowing harder. A storm is brewing. She is constantly finding ways to keep the pot stirred.

When will it all end?!? Questioning out loud not necessarily asking the question. I know we don't have the answers, but I am ready for a break.
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Make a contribution to a charities organization, or to the alumnae fund at your mom's school, in her name.
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Looloo, me too. I looked at cards the other day and I couldn't find a one that had words to fit my situation. I just put them down and walked out. I will try again on a different day. My mom hates flowers.--well what doesn't she hate? but she doesn't like to get flowers. Maybe that is what I should do anyway just for spite. I cannot decide if I am even going to send a card. I do not want to give her a reason to call me. I am going the counseling in a week, so I will bring it up then. My heart says no and my mind says well maybe. You are also right when you say that my mom didn't call to see how my daughter is! She never did that before. She only calls when she needs something whether it be food or an ego boost. All I can do anymore is just shake my head at the situation.
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It's incredible how manipulative they can be. Even when you decide not to engage with them, they're still in your head. Even your daughter -- she wisely chose not to call your mother back, but she's wondering what's up. Here's what's up: Your mother is demanding attention, that's all. Is your mother curious about how your daughter is? What's new with her? I doubt it. There's never any mutual, sincere engagement -- only oppressive "sucking in."
I hope you enjoy your OWN Mother's Day this year, Jewel! When you mentioned the day coming up, I had to think for a moment to remember that this will be my 1st year not visiting my mother. Last year was the first year I didn't drive down on Saturday, stay overnight, take her to an extravagant brunch on Sunday, drive back home, and so on. Last year, she happened to have a doctor's appointment the Monday before Mother's Day, so I took the day off of work ,drove down at sunrise, took her to the appointment and then to a NON expensive lunch, and that was it. I did order flowers for her though, to be delivered that Saturday before Mother's Day, since she probably wouldn't remember or consider what I did do to be "enough."
This year, I will not call. But I'll order flowers and a card. God, I hate shopping for cards for her....
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Thank you!! I need to hear those words more often. Not sure if I told you all but my mom tried to call my daughter last week. I wondered how long it would take her to do it. She was on her way home from college and she didn't see she had called until later, but my mom didn't leave a message. I told my daughter to do what she wanted. She could call her or she didn't have to. She chose not to call her, but now she wonders what she wanted. Of course, my mom is probably thinking that I have turned her granddaughter against her. Not true at all. My daughter doesn't have a controlling mother like I do. I do not tell her what to and what not to do. She can make her own decisions based on what she wants to do. I told her that my mom is only calling because she wants something or she has a question to find out something about me. There is always motive with her.--How smart have I become...LOL...I am learning, but the hard way. I also got an invitation in the mail yesterday regarding the mother's day brunch at AL. Last year my mother wouldn't go, so that is my answer for this year. She won't go and I am not going to ask. The difference in this year my mom will have me to blame for why she isn't going. She will say that I have forsaken her on mother's day. She will pout that I didn't ask nor did I come. I will tell you that in 47 years, this is the first mother's day that I will make no contact.
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Too often one of three things or all three three happens when setting boundaries. 1. We forget they are for our protection and not for making them change. 2. We forget to set concrete consequences for when they break the boundaries and they will. 3. We forget to follow through with the consequences.

jeweltone, you are right. The only way to stop giving her permission is to stop contact. Sometimes that is the only and best thing you can do.

Good luck with moving forward!
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I have thought about Job a lot lately. I have to remind myself that Job kept his faith through everything and it paid off. If this is a test, I WILL pass it!! I do feel that things have been "allowed" to happen. For what reason? Not sure about that yet, and I may never know. I am leaning not on my own understanding for sure. Being human in nature, I do ask a lot of questions, but I always go back to Him and my faith in Him. I sat down last week for a while and thought to myself, is this the devil trying to get at me, or is it God asking something of me? The more I contemplated it, the more I realized it was the devil...so I let some things go. I too have been thinking about the same things, Cher.

when it comes to my mom, nothing I say or do changes her behavior. The more I set boundaries, the more I say no, the more she behaves this way to me. So for that, I am not going to keep just doing what she says all the time--even when I do, she still behaves badly toward me. She is always mad or pouting about something. This has been her all my life though. It is just worse now. I feel like I keep explaining my self just like I always had to do to her. Always explaining the "why" of everything. Why did you do this, why did you do that, why do you look at me like that --(like what?!?) why, why, why?!!!! I also feel like I am always making excuses for her behavior. As far as giving permission to treat me this way, exactly!! I have been giving that permission for many years and it has to stop. The only way to stop it with her, is to stop contact. This is not easy for sure, but I am moving forward.
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Learned behavior is something that spreads not just in your family but is also the sum of the 5 to 6 people that you are around the most. Believe that the bible, when describing an event is more of a fable about human nature than a story that really l happened. Even story about Job the devil asks permission from God to test him. God says yes. Believe that this is a fable of people outside your family asking permission to treat someone inside your own family poorly and by your word and body language you give them permission to do so. Sorry if I an getting too deep here but I have been thinking about that a lot.
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Learned behaviors is something I think of often. I so do not want to be like my mom, but I do see it come out at times. I think you are right emjo, it doesn't always mean we have a disorder, just a learned behavior. We are not made only of genes but we are also a product of the environment we grew up in. I have learned to change many behaviors and still working on a few. Maybe my mom getting ill was a wake up call for me. I sit and wonder why?, but in a way I am so glad. I am glad to finally maybe to break free in a sense and also glad that I can see what might have been coming.

As a young child, a teenager, and a young adult I was usually very positive and saw the good in everyone. As I became older and dealt more and more with my mom and trying to still be what she expected including my kids in that at the same time, I started becoming more like her. A bit cynical in everything. I am slowly trying to get back to myself--the glass is half full kind of gal.

Speaking of therapy, I made my appointment!!! It has been a long time coming, but timing is everything. I guess it couldn't come at a better time. If some of you are wondering, no, I still haven't contacted my mom. It is not any easier, but I am taking it a day at a time. The sense of relief I have from not hearing the negativity is great, that feeling of "I am doing something wrong" nags at me day after day. I have so many thoughts running through my head that I will not even know where to start with the counselor. Hopefully they will be able to guide me.

Attention seeking is the name of the game with my mom. She gets angry if she isn't the center of attention. This is not a new behavior for her though. It has always been that way. If she wasn't the one telling a story and everyone else listening, then she would find her way out of the room and not listen to anyone else's stories. Only hers were interesting. She would interrupt and start her own story. You can even watch her eyes start to wonder around the room as she looses interest and tunes you out as you talk. I am convinced that is why she always got the "story"wrong, because she never listened to it. Me, Me Me. That is my mom. Even at the AL she seeks attention from the staff. If she doesn't get it, she gets angry with them. She will even ask them where they have been, what took them so long, and why were they in so and so's room so long...and well, what about her, doesn't she pay the same as everyone else, shouldn't she get the same attention. Actually, she probably gets more attention because she is definitely the squeaky wheel. This could be a blog in it's self. Ha!

I have tried to not write for the past few days thinking that may help me to get my mind off my mom, but actually writing about it helps me more. Reading comments helps remind me and keep things in perspective.

Yes, Emjo, life would be better without these problems...
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Definitely it is all about attention - positive or negative. I have had to look at myself carefully for learned behaviours as I think it is likely that we pick up some behaviours from our parents even if we do not have a personality disorder. There is a siren enticing us to get attention from talking about our problems in preference to dealing with them. I am a bit suspect about the presence of more than learned behaviours when I see someone who doesn't make any progress despite much venting and advice, or when I see someone resistant to the change that would come from therapy.
Wouldn't life be easier without these problems?
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That's exactly it, Heidi. It's all about getting attention.
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Looloo, maybe provoking an argument is a form of entertainment, or a way to get attention? I think that's a biggie with my mom. As a teen and young woman she was called too flirty and she just went into overdrive stealing boyfriends, or trying to, etc. I think it goes back to her wanting attention. Any attention is good.
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