Is it normal she's so negative?

Oh gosh, "I could be dead and you wouldn't know it."....Those are the famous words. My mom says that at least once a week. She used to say it a lot when she would get mad and not talk to me for weeks and I would end up calling her--the right thing to do, and she would say that to me...instead of "I am so glad you called". My always says sarcastic things but dares me to talk to her like that. I can offer to go out and get her something different to eat and she will always refuse, but then say "I guess I will just starve".

I haven't called my mom since Thursday after her little fiasco about the pill box. Since I make it worse when I come, then I will not call either.--well today anyway. Ha! I am not calling tomorrow either because my husband and I are going Christmas shopping. My daughter is in from college and I will get her to go with me Sunday, so this week should be easier.

Judda: hope all goes well with your dad, so I assume your parents are divorced, like mine?

Guestshop, I think you are so right about the mom recognizing the pill refill means she might not get a visit and manipulating the situation so she is guaranteed a visit. They are sometimes cagier than we suspect. And I have heard the eye-rolling statements like "I'll just sit here in the dark and go blind." I would beg my mom to please tell me when something went wrong so I could fix it right away and she flatly stated she would never tell me. I explained it made my life easier because otherwise I would have to guess and keep checking to make sure things were ok and she was comfortable. Nope, not gonna tell you. Guess what- she would prefer that I run over there several times a day checking on her. She SAYS she doesn't want to bother me, but when you tell them what will make life easier for the both of you and they flat out refuse to do so, well, I guess she does want to bother me. A lot. And then if I don't, she can complain to other people that not only did I not come to see her, but she has also been sitting there in the dark all this time!!! You don't look forward to seeing someone anyway when the first thing out of their mouth is, "I could have been sitting over here dead since yesterday and you wouldn't have known." Aye-yi-yi

So my father had an ulcer and I may be going to spend the weekend taking care of him. He's stubborn about things but at least he is not trippy. He's a sweet man and many love him.

Hmm and the Narcissist must rely on FOG to manipulate you because they clearly have no real love and respect for anyone but themselves and therefore can't get it from others. Reminds me of drug addicts who must have pills to help them cope with life and others (prescription and illegal): drugs are not seen by the human body to be vitamins or supplements, you understand. So this artificial substance is meant to control them but their inner minds, or souls still feel the truth. Can't you see it in their faces? Glints of consciousness, shame, fear of rejection, even think shards of love coming through their confusion. It's utterly pathetic! I too alternate with compassion and frustration when I am thinking about them. I want to be free to love my mother but she makes it impossible. I tell myself it is old age. It is mental illness. But all those mind games and drama queen scenes she seems to enjoy reliving make it hard to see who the heck she is. Will the real person ever step forward? No. Certainly not anymore. I feel for all of us experiencing this over and over. It sure feels endless and there are times I feel certain she is killing me.

jewel, the combination of narc mom and dementia must be really challenging for you. My mom's health issues don't include dementia, but one thing that has helped me is to remember that she's always trying to keep control which means keeping me on the defensive. For her, it's usually trying to make me feel guilty for something and then I'm apologizing and trying to make her feel better. It's helped me stay level by not apologizing for things that are normal, like missing her calls because I'm in a meeting at work. Or feeling guilty because I spent the day with my granddaughter, not my mom. When she tells me about everyone else's doting children, I don't explain things she's not interested in - my work load, my husband's health issues, etc. If I need to explain being distracted or sounding "funny", I just gloss it over by saying "I'm tired". If she's really pissed and on a roll, I just say we're not going over that ground again and if need be, I suddenly need to use the restroom. Disengage. I know it's really hard to disengage, detach when you're worn out and getting lambasted again. But the less you give the desired reaction, the more of the control you get to take back.

Jeweltone--I have offered and felt the need to leave work so many times to appease my mother or just to relieve my own anxiety. It is a constant worry--I hate being conflicted--I have to take care of business at my job, but I don't want her upset with me. The hoops have gotten too hard to manage and too plentiful to count. I sometimes think I am afraid of my own anxiety surrounding her rather than actually being afraid of her. The anxiety is so gripping--I am working so hard to try and manage it. It is TOUGH!!!
I get the pill thing--you cannot win--no matter what. I do wish that your mother could be put back on the same sedative that helped her be more calm long ago--maybe a smaller dosage? My heart goes out to you because "her in your head" is taking up so much of your life. I know this all too well.

Jewel, my heart goes out to you. Passive aggressive narcissists. UGH. My husband was out of work for 4 months earlier this year and I know that it affected how I dealt with my job and my son.
Something in earlier post stood out to me. "I filled her pill box from Sunday night to today again, just in case I decide not to go then she has it ready for next week too." YOUR MOTHER IS NOT COMPLETELY OUT OF IT, SHE CAN FIGURE IT OUT-YOU MAY NOT COME THIS WEEK.
Then you have this comment in your later post AFTER you did not call her back immediately and the meltdown. "She went on to tell me what pills were missing and what pills I had put in there--she knows, but wants to complain and let me know I did it wrong instead of just fixing it."
Yes, you could be making terrible mistakes because you are a "bad careless daughter". Or you could be getting set up/punished when you indicate that you *might* not come back when your mother wants you to. She is fussing around you when she knows that it makes you flustered and more prone to mistakes. My mom would play victim head games sometimes too (don't change the light bulb, I'll just still here in the dark going blind). My husband leaves out crucial bits of info about stuff regarding my in-laws if he thinks I will not do something he/they want so there is not time for alternatives to what they or he want done.
If the facility does not offer medication aides, tell your mother that you will arrange for a medication aide to come fill her bottle and she can pay for it.
Boundary is my middle name. Narcissists want help when they want the way they want it. And if you are beaten down enough, you don't think about alternatives. FOG fear obligation guilt. (hugs)

njny... In that respect you're correct... I was thinking in terms of the 'situation at hand' being temporary. But, very good point. I for one always have to work on the 'approval' aspect. And, support is so very important (when you can get it). Thank you.

Heart2Heart--sometimes it does feel like the Twilight Zone, but the "temporary" notion eludes me. Mothers can outlive their caregivers. Somehow we girlfriends have to band together and form superglue so we can stick to our decisions to have reasonable boundaries and take care of ourselves--and quit looking for mother love and approval that will NEVER BE FORTHCOMING!

Jewel, would it be a violation of policy if you could pay a staff person at your mother's place a little extra $ to do your mother's pills? Whatever's fair -- $10, $20??? Out of your mother's account.

I understand how being a caregiver can get you in a Twilight Zone that you can't seem to get out of. One thing that helps me is know that it's 'temporary'... You just have to keep trying different things (for both sides) and see what works... keep asking a lot of questions (to anyone, especially those in this arena)... In between, force yourself to get away to ground yourself. I/we know how difficult it all is... but, you'll be ok... we can only do the best we can... xoxoxo

As I have stated, she has been on almost all antidepressants including they added abilfy to them to try to help. NOTHING works. She sometimes gets worse while on them. The anxiety medicine was working to a degree and now we have even added one at night time too. To name a few, lexapro, paxil, zoloft, abilify, ativan, prozac, some I can't remember the names. This has been over a course of three years not just a couple months. They have tried everything. They gave her a sedative last year to keep her mind still and it worked so well. As she started getting better, they weaned her off of the sedative and here we are again. Being at the AL she wouldn't be able to be on the sedative because it is independent living. I liked it much better when she slept most of the time. At least she was quiet.

Quiet? What would that feel like again? I surely would like to know. Her mouth never stops. I called her back this morning with dread and of course it turned out I did something wrong once again. While I am there she makes me a nervous wreck fussing over things.--anything. So, I filled her pill box wrong. SMH!! When I called her and apologized for not seeing that she called until late, the first thing out of her mouth was, "I don't know what you did to these pills, but they are all wrong", "you have two in one spot and three in another". "You have left out pills" "now I am confused and don't know what I am supposed to take". Once again, I apologized and offered to leave work to fix them. She went on to tell me what pills were missing and what pills I had put in there--she knows, but wants to complain and let me know I did it wrong instead of just fixing it. Again, I offered to come fix them. She said, "Nevermind, I don't want you to come fix them, it just makes it worse when you come." "I don't know what you have on your mind, but it is something" When I tried to explain, she cut me off and said, "I will fix them myself the best I can, I probably will do it wrong, but I don't want you to come" Defeat first thing in the morning. She will NEVER accept me as a human that makes mistakes. She thinks my mind she only be on her. Well, little does she know that it IS her on my mind and that is what is wrong with me. She will never understand. Rejection, defeat, and frustration--the center of my life. She has no idea what all I go through with her and not only her, but I think I mentioned, or maybe not, that my husband got a $4 an hour pay cut. It is taking a toll on us, our finances, and to add my mom to the mix is really getting me down. I have explained to her before about my husband and his job, but that doesn't cross her mind--only she is on her mind. ME, ME, ME!! What about ME? That is all this is about. I will tell you the truth and nothing but the truth, I really don't care. I used to care and did things for her because I care. Now, I do it for two reasons, for Him, and because I feel it is my obligation as a daughter. I wish she would fall into the black hole she has put forth for everyone else.

That is my rant this morning...thanks for listening. You are good people and I appreciate you so much!!

Some drugs like Paxil put on a ton of extra weight gain. Please read the side effects.

Jewel, next time you talk to the geriatric psychiatrist, please mention that your mother is ruminating ( bringing up old hurts over and over). There are some antidepressants that are better for this symptom than others (I want to say Paxil, but I could be wrong). Worthwhile asking.

Went to mom's today after work and took her medicine. I didn't get her message until 11pm calling me asking me to call her about her medicine. I filled her pill box from Sunday night to today again, just in case I decide not to go then she has it ready for next week too. Now, I am assuming I have confused her filling up all the days again. I didn't call her back. I have had enough today. I have decided that when i tell her the truth about something I get in trouble, when I lie to her I get in trouble--even though she doesn't know it's a lie and my guilt of lying is overwhelming but my truth is overwhelming. I cannot win...to lie or not to lie? The truth doesn't really matter at this point, but good grief. Why can't she just take the truth and let it be, she makes me lie to her. She stays mad about everything. She cries all the time. We have tried antidepressants with NO luck. Once again she went on and on about how she was cheated out of her mother's things and money--she was NOT! She just wants to complain. I am so tired of hearing it!! I need a break, I mean a BIG break. Months, years--Ha! I am consumed. I know when I call her back tomorrow I will get to hear "I can never get you, what if it were an emergency?" Is it an emergency mother? No, she just wants to complain.

Yah, we daughters get the green light for them for crap since the day we were born. As adults we then must face this old role and correct it. Toughest thing I ever had to do! The very thought of setting a boundary: ANY boundary was terrifying to me, until I realized that I was making myself sick NOT doing it. Once I did, my health improved and I am much more peaceful than I was 5 years ago when she moved nearby.

One good image to use when under mother attacks: Her comments hit my mental roof like Teflon! I am safe, I am fine, I am good.
If someone tells me I am a ping pong ball, that doesn't make it true.
It's tough though, no matter what you do.

Linda22, that is so my mother. You know they only had the party in this particular venue so she couldn't come.... Ha Ha!!! My mom too thinks that everything anyone does is against her. I think this too comes from their rejection as a child. I have had my mom tell me stories of her mom and dad and how they were mean too, but she doesn't see herself anywhere near them. My mom was a middle child and she milks that for all it's worth. She truly has the middle child syndrome. I also think sometimes I feel guilty because I feel like my mother tells me I feel about her. She always says stuff like, "you don't care about me, you just put me here so you don't have to do anything for me", "your kids don't care about me, they just sit here when they come", "you should have left (my son) at home for the dinner, he was bored and he didn't want to be here". Shew!! Yes, this is the way it is all the time. She is right, we don't want to be there--only because of all the negativity, but she just don't get it. When I tell her, then once again, she plays the pity card.--woe is me, I am a bad person. She never stops to say, "oh, I don't mean for it to be that way." Guess what? She loves to complain, I think she is addicted to it.

Jewel... I also know the hurt of the words said by a mother which are always 'there' (in your head). I work on this day-in and day-out, trying to brush it off, but it's really difficult. I never thought in the 'younger' days that trying to care and do the 'right' things for the mother you love so deeply, could wear you down. I think there's a lot of us here that understand. Thank goodness for this site! Keep the faith with me/us... You're a lovely person.

jewel, I find it helps to use the ride home to throw the negativity off, replaying things in my head. When I walk in my door, I'm reminded that my family shouldn't catch the fallout from my issues with my mom. Sadly, while we're learning how to set boundaries, our families catch a lot of rubbish they don't deserve. It may sound silly, but when I'm in the midst of a tough visit, I think that I'll soon be curled in bed, knitting, with a cup of tea and a goody. We have to get good at throwing it off because it won't get easier. My mom is now finding that there are things we simply can't make better - her health, her mobility. She hit me with every bit of guilt and manipulation yesterday because she is unable to attend a family party this week. The party site is not wheelchair accessible and she can't do stairs. She won't accept that no matter how much guilt she tries, I still can't get her up the stairs. Unfortunately, she's preferring to think that she's not wanted at the party as it's "just for the young people" (my 93 yo FIL will be there plus us geezers), than to realize that it's just that it's an access issue.

Yeah, Jeweltone. When I started seeing a counselor, learned to set boundaries, say no, accept my own needs first, and to be more detached to protect myself, my mother said things like, "You've changed! What ever happened to my sweet little girl?" I thought a moment and than answered, "I grew up."

Thank you Cricket... I have set boundaries and it has been very tough. I NEVER stood up to my mom or told her no. She has even told me I am not the same person. I am the same person, but not to her. You are right, when I started boundaries she became so much worse. She was already mean and hateful but I just took it. Now she is meaner and I take it, but only to a certain point now. When my mom was well, she would call out of the blue and tell me she was coming over for the day and wanted to cookout, etc. Even if I had made other plans for the day with my family, all bets were off. The plans changed and we had her over for the day and entertained her. No matter what she said, we took it, not matter what mood she was in we morphed. I DO NOT do that for her anymore and she sees the change. But the sad part is, she was the only one I ever did that for. Pulling away from something you have been taught all your life is very difficult. I have been trained to bow down to her and do what she wants when she wants it. Now that I am learning to say no and put my family first, she is not liking it one bit. She is always finding something I do wrong.--that really isn't anything new. I think I just see it more now that I am able to say no. The only no I usually use is when she wants to live with me or move from the AL. I do tell her no then. She said to me Sunday--"you would rather me stay here and be miserable than live by myself" I told her I don't want her to be miserable or be alone and I don't know how to fix it. Fixing it is something she looks for in me. She thinks I can fix her happiness and I CANNOT! Believe me, I have tried numerous times until I finally realized that I can't. No matter where she lived, she said "I hate it here, I am miserable here" She moved three times in 2 years. I realized that it is not the place she is living, it is the soul she lives with.

My mom too thinks she gave me life on a silver platter. If she considers only the "things" that she bought me and the stuff I owned--that they bought me, then yes, I was handed a silver platter. But the emotional and physical abuse that came with all the stuff, takes away the silver and leaves me with a tarnished platter. I have stated before that I will not deny I was very fortunate growing up. I had just about anything I could ever ask for except the most important thing and that was the acceptance from my mom. My dad on the other hand loves me no matter what. Between him and his mom(my grandmother), I learned what love was really about. I am so thankful for them in my life showing me. My dad always thought my mom did the same thing because he never knew about what all happend when he was gone to work. He didn't even know I had a spanking until 3 years ago. He always told people I never got a spanking (because he never did) and I finally was tired of hearing it and told him the truth. He cried. He was so sorry that he didn't see what she was doing. He knew she manipulated me through guilt, but had no idea she was putting her hands on me.--more than just spanking. I am not asking for pity by no means, but it does help me to finally put it out there. I have kept these secrets for way too long. If she weren't ill, I probably would still be holding them inside--you know the rule, don't spill the beans on the abuser. When my parents divorced I was 20. My dad asked me to move with him and I wouldn't--I was too afraid of what she would say. Not realizing since I stayed and he wasn't there she said a whole lot more. I wish so many times I had moved with my dad and got away from her, but that is what an abuser does--they mainuplate you to believe in what they say.

I could go on and on. :-) Thanks for listening!!

Classic manipulative narcissistic mother - they will say or do anything and everything to try to pull the attention toward them and to attempt to make you feel guilty. Our mom always threw out the laments about all she did for us when we were kids and how she gave her life to us on a silver platter. OK (seriously? that's not how I remember it), that still does not give a person the right to take over someone else's life and emotionally manipulate them. The moment we tried to set a boundary was usually when we got all this wailing and gnashing of teeth. Don't let her get to you. Sounds like you are on the right track with how you are handling these situations.

There is so much I want to say that I cannot find all the words. I can say do not give up on the hope that one day we will all be rewarded for the torture we were put through. This is not just past tense but also in the present and I am afraid for the future.

It was another torturous visit with my mom Sunday. I took some things from my grandmother's for my mom and she lost it. First, she cried and said it made her sad, then she got angry at me for not getting something else that she wanted. First off, I didn't know she wanted it..Oh yea, I am supposed to know that right? Ha! After an hour of listening to her put me down I tried to change the subject She then said, "When you were born I was so happy. I looked at you and was so happy. Looking back, while looking at you I never dreamed this many years later that you would put me in a place like this".... Yes, people, she said it. She WAS happy with me, but now she is just disappointed. She surely knows what to say. I still didn't make one comment. It was brought to my attention by a friend that just maybe some things my mom says doesn't deserve a comment. I have taken that to heart and using it wisely. We sat in awkward silence for about 30 min to an hour and I was ready to leave. I took a small tree and she didn't want it but finally she decided she would keep it. We went for a walk and she brought up my dad---this is why I didn't want to tell her about him...she asked "how do the kids like having their papaw living next door" I changed the subject and she didn't like it, but I didn't want to talk about it. She started complaining about the staff again too. They either don't come in her room enough or they come too much. I guess I should have moved her in to the Three Bears house, maybe it could have been "just right". Eventually after being around such negativity, one can't be anything but negative. When I leave her I feel like I could crawl under a rock. Judda , I thought about you when I left... I wished I never had to go back. I want to scream out loud when I get in the car. I also always seem to come home and reflect on our visit. I really wish I didn't do that. It puts me deeper under that rock.

One other thing she said yesterday that made me think she probably is right, She said, "you will never know what it is like to lose your mother". She might be on to something. If she lives 20 or 30 more years, I won't be able to stand it that long. Realize my mom is only 69 so it is very possible.

There is so much more to yesterday's story, but I will leave it at that for now. My soul is crushed as usual but I also realize that I have been rejected by her for many years and that is not going to change.

Cricket--I am so sorry. You know, nowadays, when we see bruises or hear anything about physical violence, we are required to report it. The authorities don't always fix the problem, but it helps when parents know they are being watched. The child protective services visit and then follow up, even if they don't do much more than that. I know some kids, like you, are scared to death to tell, and it is so upsetting. Your story grabbed my heart. Those memories are real today, I am sure. Take care of yourself--I care!

Njny, your post just brought tears to my eyes. You know, now kids would just say, why didn't you just tell someone. I did everything I could so people didn't know what my mother did. I remember telling another kid that I fell out of a tree to explain some bruises I had gotten, because you knew in your heart that if she could do that to you when you were trying to be good, what on earth would happen to you when she found out you had told someone outside of the family. You also didn't want people knowing what an evil kid you were to cause your mother to do these things. Wonder what was in the water back then that caused such behaviors in all our mothers? Of course, she still thinks it's my fault every time she acts out now. Absolutely no introspection or self awareness whatsoever.

Wow--I have been catching up on everyone's posts. I have been able to identify with so many of your comments about a true lack of empathy, and a meanness from my mother that is so painful to deal with. Lifelong. I am 62, and still fear her mouth. I am an educator, and see so many abusive parents, but I also see so many loving, reassuring, kind parents. My father loved me. I am sure of that. I just knew it. My mother has difficulty expressing love, but sometimes she is so nice--I almost wish she was not nice at times, because I let up on my guard and then she comes out with hurtful and accusatory statements. This is not new--it has always been this way, I can never relax around my mother--I must stay on guard. How sad. BUT I did NOT have the physical abuse that many of you have just described. That would be so awful -- to have that additional fear from childhood that she could truly harm you. Oh--I am so sorry for each of you who had this. You didn't deserve it; you didn't ask for it; you were innocent children. You may have written something nasty about your mothers--not unusual--but their reactions were. I cannot even imagine how horrific that would have been.
So... dealing with strictly emotional abuse, I am still suffering, but trying to be the best and kindest person I can. My husband is the most wonderful man--without him, well, it is scary because he grounds me. Just like you all, she is ever-present in my head, messing with my mind, torturing me so that I rarely relax. I see her essentially every day, usually more than once because she lives so close, and she is in my head hammering away relentlessly. I try to shut out her voice, but it stays. But when I get a chance to be with friends for a while, and laugh and have some fun, I am a different person. I hope retirment doens't do me in. I hope I am in charge of my life, and don't give in to her every hint of a wish. Maybe someday we could all meet somewhere and have a mini-vacation support group combo. Wouldn't that be something!
Well for now, I am grateful to each of you for sharing your stories. You are helping others, and I hope, little by little, yourselves. I get strength from all of you.

Cricket, I moved to another state last year to help the one who gave birth to me when she had surgery. In spite of 56 years of physical & verbal abuse I thought it was the "right" thing to do. It was not long before she started with the same old crap...belittling, criticizing, bad-mouthing me to the "family" and even outright lies. I finally asked her could she not see what kind of person it was standing before her and what possible good was it to throw things up in my face that happened when I was a 16, 40 years ago? She could not answer me & things only got worse. This woman allowed an uncle come into my bedroom when I was a teenager, he tried to molest me & I screamed at him to get out. She never said a word to him about it. That story is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. I'm not going to get started.

Gee, I thought I was the only one! When I was around 9 or 10 I was mad at her for something and wrote a letter to a friend about how horrible my mother was. Almost immediately I felt guilty (I feel like I have felt guilty my whole life) and tore the several pages of the letter into hundreds of teeny tiny pieces, about the size of a pencil eraser, and scattered them in he bottom of a trash can. When I got home from school the following day, she had the pages of the letter taped together on display on the dining table for my guilt-stricken viewing pleasure. It must have taken her every minute of the day to painstakingly piece and scotch tape all that together! My only defense was, well, at least I didn't mail it! She used to tell me that other people were watching me at school and would report back to her everything I did. No wonder I turned out to have trust issues. She also would whip me until I had whelts and blood blisters on the backs of my legs and once hit me in the face with a cooking pot. The next day she asked me where I got the bruise. So I guess she's had memory problems for a long long time. The sad thing is that as a child, you think the problem is you. If you could just be good enough, pretty enough or smart enough, these things wouldn't happen. It took me several decades to figure out she was the problem, not me. Despite all those feelings, I still offered for her to stay at my home, because it was the right thing to do. She has now gotten pissed off and moved out on me not once, but twice (yes, I took her back after the first time; the second time I bought an expensive travel trailer for her to live in on our property, thinking close enough for me to keep an eye on her but giving us both privacy and her independence - didn't work as she wanted me over there visiting all day every day, and now I'm stuck with the trailer I can't use). Nothing I've ever done has been enough for her and I have now realized that nothing ever will. I have no positive emotion left for her any more as she has left me drained, physically, financially and emotionally. She, however, carries on as if none of her tirades ever happened and wonders why I am not the endlessly loving and forgiving daughter I used to be.

Judda, you are a bigger person than I am because there is no way I will be available for the woman who gave birth to me when the time comes.

Judda: Sorry is not enough for what you have been through. My mom too put her hands on me many times. I think I told the story of how she hit me after I did something she told me to do. After I did what she told me to do, she realized it embarrassed her and she smacked my mouth--I was wearing braces and it cut the inside of my lip really bad. My lip turned blue outside and swelled. She was so afraid of what my dad would do, she had to manipulate me one more time by telling me that my dad would hurt her if he saw it. So, once again, I protected her by not spilling the beans. I stayed in my room a lot when he came home from work so he wouldn't see. He just thought I was a typical teenager hanging out in my room with my music. DUH! My poor dad thought I had never been spanked or anything. If he only knew. This is what bullies do..manipulate. Being an only child it was very scary being home alone with her not knowing when she would strike again. She used to pull my hair until knots would come on my head. I was probably 19 before she stopped putting her hands on me. then it became even more mental abuse. The looks she would give when she was mad were enough to stop me in my tracks. She could have shot daggers out of her eyes. I still see that in her. I do realize though that now she cannot hurt me like that, but I still live in that same fear and dread. You are so right about how mentally ill they have been all their life even through the normal nice things they did. My mom always looked like a movie star, well put together and was an excellent employee. No one would EVER know.

You are brave to step up and be caring for her even after her torture.