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Can't answer that, Jessie. All I can say is mine was a nice lady but I don't think she had a very co-operative patient.

Recently I've tried again, not least because I worry about the effect family dynamics could have on my children if/when they get round to sprogging. Also, the good old NHS is under strict governmental orders to take mental health seriously (yeah right) and offer us all a whole raft of therapies. If the population wasn't depressed before it sure is now - how much is this costing?!!! And then you know how it is, you fill in these assessment questionnaires about anxiety and depression and end up screwing it into a ball, lobbing it at the bin and yelling "what part of this is not normal???" I feel anxious about the future never/rarely/sometimes/all the time. I have had thoughts about suicide never/rarely/sometimes/all the time. And then you get the therapies unit calling you up and there's this anxious little voice on the end of the phone saying "your assessment shows that you have quite high levels of anxiety" - you DON'T say. Stone me. Is that right. These people never seem to know how to take deadpan irony, tsk.

As far as I can tell, the mistake many therapists make is reacting. How can you be open if the person you're talking to is going to get all sniffly and sad about it? On the other hand, the get your butt up and snap out of it approach is perhaps not entirely addressing the heart of the matter, Jewel???

The other thing is, depending on what species of therapist you're seeing of course, I find it very hard to define, even loosely, what I expect to achieve, and even harder to get a therapist to tell me what the aim of exercise is. Having said that, if you need to achieve a given objective, oo I don't know, like say "I want not to ruin every Sunday and most of the week before it with literal and metaphorical guilt trips" - hem hem, mentioning no names - then I'd have thought CBT would get you started. Short, focused and effective, if not necessarily very profound.
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Jessie, in my case, it was easy because I was in crisis mode, lol. I knew that my life was becoming overwhelming, I was not handling things well, and that's pretty much what I said. And then the rest just comes out pretty naturally.
I don't always have a lot to say. But the time spent always proves to be useful and worthwhile.
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I have to ask people what we're supposed to talk to therapists about. I went to 2 or 3 way back when and couldn't think of anything to say. I would try to dig something up, just because I knew I was supposed to talk, but it was hard for me. I just remember suffering through long hours. Maybe it's just hard for me to talk about myself with someone. Or maybe when there's this train wreck, it's hard to know which car to pick. What are you supposed to talk about with therapists?
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Where to start? I have laughed at your comments. You know just when to step in and make me laugh. I am not quiet as nervous as normal and trying to enjoy it. I have enjoyed my husband tonight after my sweet, pleasantly surprised card. You know I am stressed when my husband decides to go buy a card. It has been 23 years, people, since I got a card just because I needed it. :-) I have always been the one to hold everything together here and he sees I am struggling with just holding myself together lately.

BurnedOUt: YES, it is very possible to have PTSD. I can feel depression starting to settle in and I am fighting it so hard. I have been depressed once in my life over a situation and it didn't last long after a friend came and pulled me off the couch, opened my blinds, and told me to get my butt up and snap out of it. I NEVER want to go back there and feel that way again. I didn't even know what was happening, but this time I can feel what is happening. I am usually relatively strong and happy. I encourage you as well to hang in there.

CM, juddah, looloo: I have been silent and she has said, "speak a**, your mouth won't"... I swear she has said these things. No one could make that crap up. It almost makes me laugh to think how stupid she sounds. I guess I get so annoyed at how she wants to hurt me so much. When I ask her, why?, she always turns it around and repeats me, "why you want to hurt ME so much?" --not mocking me, but truly asking me the same question. It is a no win situation.

I have a lot to do tomorrow, I am HAVE to go to work first and foremost, then I need to call the director of AL, call the beautician, call the eye doctor, call a therapist and set up an appointment, and scan and email some financial aid papers to my daughter's college. The day will be over before I can say: Thursday.
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I liked the McDonaldland characters! Mayor McCheese, the Hamburglar, anf Grimace. What WAS Grimace, anyway? He liked the milkshakes, that's all I remember. Lol!
Now I want a cheeseburger and fries! Advertising is a powerful thing!
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PS Tony the Tiger was the first impression advertising ever made on me. I adored him.
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Jewel, unfortunately what I'm having is a mother who at the moment barely arouses my sympathy, let alone any feelings of guilt. So that's no remedy for you! But the right therapist will have one. Spend Sunday tracking one down, maybe???
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Jeweltone. Be a good girl to yourself: and yes, that will conflict with being a slave for your Mom. Why are you here on earth? You don't believe anyone is here to be a slave for others, do you? We are here to love and there comes a sensibility to yourself and your family about how to handle that love.

I am no longer my mother's puppy dog. I don't come when called, nor wag my tail just for her selfish eyes. I give what I choose and it is hard to turn off the MommaTrauma Channel but it's a skill that can be learned. Practice makes perfect. The more I can respect myself and have control over me, the more I can choose to give and to respond appropriately when attacked. I don't lash back I just state a case in one short sentence, if that, and then turn my attention to someone or something else.

Mom keeps trying to push my buttons, and drop guilt bombs. I answer with,
"uh-huh, oh that's nice, too bad, right." I don't give her anyway to sink her nails in.
Try it for a day and see how it feels. you get better at it and it lessens HER power over you more and more. It's hard to get free of this brainwashing. We've been brought up with this stuff all mixed in with a normal child's needs for love, support, recognition, and so on. Many of us have had very little of this from our mothers with mental issues. No wonder we struggle! But we don't have to be attached to this familiar situation anymore.
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looloo - seeing a therapist is a good idea. Since I have a business, other responsibilities and spending lots of time with parents - I just can't work it in. I will eventually try to find someone. After 5 years of this craziness, I believe I have PTSD. I wonder if it is possible to have PTSD after 5 years of caregiving.
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Jewel, if mom calls you a smart-a** when you answer her, have you considered simply remaining silent while you're with her?
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I also recommend seeing a therapist. It has helped me so much. I go maybe every 3 weeks. It feels great to unload and to get some guidance from someone who truly is not burdened, who can recognize when I'm getting in my own way, who's only priority during our session is me.
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Since my mom's diagnosis of dementia, she has become much more negative about her surroundings, the AL and life in general. She is not so negative to me, but I am prepared for that change. This is not her normal disposition so I see it as the illness not my mom. My dad, however has always felt that everyone, including family and friends are out to get him. I have had a lot of practice in deflecting all the negative comments. And although I know the things that he says about me, the family are untrue, it still really hurts. Last night he was again railing against someone who had done him wrong 50 years ago. I have heard this story at least 1,000 times. I always say, I am so sorry that this event happened to you. You know dad, it is too bad that you keep this memory alive, the man in question has not thought about you in 50 years. He often asks me how I can not think of the people that have done "bad things to me". I always say, I don't want them to be more important than they are and why would I want to continue to make myself miserable thinking about bad times. He then says, you always do believe in the best in people that is why you are so stupid. I usually say, I know, that is why I still believe in you. Other times, I act like I don't hear him. Once you realize that you can't make someone happy - you can stop trying so hard. I do what I can ( sometimes to the extreme) and then know it is probably not good enough for him. But then again, nothing was ever good enough. I truly believe that people don't really change as they get older (unless of course they have dementia, etc.). They just become more of who they are. I used to believe that as a person ages, they might have great epiphanies in their lives and become wiser and better people - no longer believe that. A person becomes more who they really are as they age. Try to disengage and realize you cannot make someone be a different person. I used to think if I act nice the other person will respond accordingly - again not true. I finally realized, I don't have control over anyone but myself.
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Jewel, therapy. Call someone tomorrow. You've got to take back the remote control to your emotional state from your mom.
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jewel, my sister calls this "giving Mom an apartment in our heads". Think about what you'd have to do to make her happy - even if you took her into your home, devoted all of your time and attention to her, did absolutely everything she wanted, she'd still be unhappy. So do what works for you and your family. And let go of worry about what she tells people or what others will think. You're doing well....baby steps....baby steps.
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That idea feels GRRRRRREAT!- said Tony the Tiger

....and I know I DON"T have to. Yes, here comes the but--she is in my head, you don't care about me, why do you treat me this way, leave me up here and never come back, what kind of daughter does that?--she won't be quiet in my head. It is like a tv show or a movie where they keep replaying what someone says over and over. She hasn't called--to no surprise. Which I am glad, because I wasn't going to answer anyway.

I want what you are having if it gives me a bigger backbone. :)
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Jewel, it's only Wednesday and you're struggling with the weekend?

Start here. "I don't have to go." How does that idea feel to you?
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:-) I would sound like her... LOL
That is a great idea. I have tried just about everything else--she will probably just call me a smarta**. I have cut visits down to a minimum now and I think this is another reason she is more angry. Who knows? I have tried to answer for her for 40+ years.

I will say this morning I had a sweet surprise from my husband. I got in the car and he had left me a sweet card.--something he USED to do and it has been a long time. I guess he sees how really distressed I am. It made me feel so good and definitely put a smile on my face.--something my family hasn't seen in a while.

As the week is pushing on, Wednesday already. I am having a hard time deciding how to handle the rest of the week. I plan on calling the beautician and asking her to do my mom's hair but not telling her I called.--just to pop in and offer to do it, like it was my mom's idea from a couple weeks ago. Then make her eye appointment for next week and get help taking her. That is all I think of right now. It will be the weekend visit I am struggling most with.

Have a great rest of your day.
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Jewel, if you have to visit your mom from time to time, you might want to use a technique called "joining the residence". Yes mom it's terrible that you have to be here. Yes ( with a glum face) I'm a terrible daughter. It must be awful having someone as incompetent as I am overseeing your care. Now, it takes a strong constitution to do this, but it produce surprising results. But I'm glad you're thinking about therapy.
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Guilt trip: It ought to be illegal! Seriously, I am finding I can loosen that trip-grip a little more every time I try to switch off the Momma Power and turn on my own inner power. I have an arsenal of things I remember to do when she strikes: work on a project, go for a walk, talk to a friend about THEIR problems, will yourself to vent for say 10 minutes and then will yourself to switch gears to yourself. In time it gets less and less powerful. Your mind has as much power as the person trying to control you. You don't have to cave in. You don't have to!! It's better for you and them in the long run if you don't . Remember your own self worth.
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I am not currently in therapy. I have been contemplating the idea. I do have training myself being that I have my masters in guidance counseling for K-12. I have had the necessary classes that has brought all this to light for me many years ago. I understand the process of her narcissistic ways and how it affects me and why she does it, but you are so right--I am too emotionally attached now to even help myself through this. I have used my training through the years to get through her torture, but now it is so deep I am having trouble digging myself out. We have a couple of therapist here I have considered. Even the director at the AL has approached me about talking to someone because she sees first hand how my mom can manipulate me. When my mom was "well" , no dementia, I only talked to her once a week and maybe only saw her once a month being she lived an hour away and I could control when I saw or spoke to her. Now, I have been "forced" to be with her more often.
It is funny because once my mom went to a therapist and wouldn't you know it, she found something wrong with them.. lol--therefore she quit going.

I am not offended at all that you asked, that is one more thing on my list I need to prioritize. Thanks for caring enough to ask.
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No guilt? I would be one happy girl!! I would invite friends over for dinner, have family over more often, and smile--smile--smile!! I would not have the burden of her in my head all the time without the guilt. Tonight we are going to eat with friends, which we do on most Tuesdays because the Mexican place in town has 15% off. :-) While waiting for them to call that they are ready, I always have this sick feeling that she will call while I am out or someone will tell her they saw me out and why do I feel that way?--I don't want to hear about it, I don't want to hear--"aren't you glad you can get out while I am stuck here"

No Guilt? That brings such joy to my heart when I even just say it!
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Jewel, I don't know if I've asked this before, and please don't take offence. Are you in therapy? Not "counseling but full on psychotherapy with a trained and certified PhD or MD who can cut to the core of your issues? It's no a quick or easy road, but right now you're torturing yourself. It's the sane among us who go to therapy, not the crazy ones. Be well.
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What would you do without the guilt? That's the question that usually provides me with an answer.
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I can so relate to the tension..I carry mine in my neck and shoulders then before I know it I have a migraine or a vertigo attack. I started yoga 3 years ago when my mom started all this nonsense of moving and becoming this bigger monster. It helped so much and gave me an inner peace. I have not done it in over a year, except on occasions. I keep telling myself I am going to get back to the gym to exercise the stress away and get back to yoga. I haven't done it yet though. I did get a massage last year and boy did that do the trick. I need one every week.. ha! Great ideas, I am going to do more of theses things for myself. Thanks for reminding me.

Another UPDATE: As you know, I talked to my dad the other night. I haven't seen him since. I pulled in my driveway after work today and he was at the house working. My first reaction was, smh, there's my dad. Then my next reaction was, who cares what she thinks. Why am I hurting him too in this process? More emotions. I get out of the car and he comes over to my son and I and hugs us and then tells me he is putting a for sale sign in the yard in two weeks after he gets back from his vacation--to Hawaii--yes, really. Ha ha! I wish I were going. Back to the yard sign. I had more emotions--sad, pity, anger, and happy. See I told you my dad was a good person. Why do I do this to him?--it's called mother. He truly understands my concerns because he lived with the devil for 26 years. He knows how she is and he tells me all the time he is sorry and wishes he had stayed to relieve me of all this pain.--heck no, dad, run Forrest run!! I told him to do what ever he wants, that I just needed to voice how I felt and why. I do love him and wish it didn't have to be this way.He told me he understood and he was still moving in and fixing up the house, but the sign would already be in the yard and he could sell it as is, or do more work. I feel like a heel people. My dad is the one who would take a bullet for me and she is the one I keep protecting. I just don't understand.--don't get me wrong, my dad living next door is not a good idea for many reasons, but my main reason is how she makes me feel.

I prayed to God this morning and told him I need him to do something for me NOW! I need Him to show me an answer and give me and my family peace from her. Maybe my dad putting the sign in the yard was the "sign", but I over analyze everything--wonder where I get that?

Love you guys so much for listening. You are the BEST!!

"When someone says you've changed, that just means you have stopped living life their way".... Let us get on that wagon!!!
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Jewel, Lots of hugs and I wish you luck with whatever you decide.
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Rejoice, it's an interesting idea but I'd advise your mother not to put money on being around to watch how you handle it! This I must see…

Jewel, I probably got the idea from my SIL's husband's shining example. He is a lovely, lovely man, the kindest in the world, who coped patiently for years and with no thanks for it with a mother who made Cruella de Vil look like a dalmatian puppy. But every so often, when it's called for, he throws his toys out of the pram and tells everyone to sit down and behave. There are then months and months of whispering behind his back about how tyrannical he is and how put upon - gasp! - my SIL is, but since his own mother used to slander him quite regularly I suppose he's developed a thick enough skin not to let it bother him. It's role play - someone being prepared to be the Villain of the Piece. Your mother, from all you've said about her, is always determined to believe it's you. It wouldn't hurt her not to be so sure about that…

Don't forget, the key thing, what really *matters*, is that your mother will be just fine if you get some time out. Nothing awful will happen to her. Her hysterical reaction to the very idea of it, part and parcel of her treatment of you, is part of a spell she casts on you. But that Doesn't Make Her Right, and it doesn't make it real - in reality, she is being done no harm. What we want to do is get your focus off her so that you stop being hypnotised and frozen by all that FOG that Emjo can tell you all about.
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At some point, I realized this: *I am my own Other Mother*.

I can nurture myself. I can protect myself. I can empower myself. I do this now. I have been doing it, but was unaware. Now, I do it consciously. I had a great counselor who helped me see this and learn to do it on purpose.

I don't have NEARLY the amount of anxiety, sleeplessness, stress, frustration, and anger I did 6 months ago or even 3 months ago.

I stopped expecting my birth mother to provide anything to me. Not even recognition as a person. That was harder to do than it sounds. These expectations are hard wired. Every time I would get upset, I had to stop and talk myself through it. What is upsetting me, what am I expecting, what am I disappointed about? Then I had to take that list and let those things go. Stop expecting them and stop letting the disappointment run my life.

It's not about going numb necessarily, but being able to take cover when the bombs fall on your head. It takes practice and repetition. I'm not perfect, so this is perfect either.

I have a mental image where I have my kindergarten aged self on my lap. I hug, soothe, and speak lovingly to myself. I rock her and rub her back and tell her everything will be OK. Weird, but it works! I tell Little Me positive things about myself. My counselor had me picture injecting myself with a magic shot of something like Magnificence or Powerfulness, but that image just didn't stick. My anxiety meditation is Big Me comforting Little Me, like a mother & child. Have a glass of wine and keep at it.

Become conscious of where you are holding tension in your body during these times. Practice relaxing these areas on purpose. For me, it's my neck, shoulders, and fists. I open my hands, roll my head, roll my shoulders, and breathe deeply and slowly.

Releasing the expectations will free you from a lot. We are not brought up to work this way, but it can be learned.

I started to feel less pre-anxiety before visits. I no longer have my buttons pushed during visits. I no longer am upset for 3 days straight after visits.
If I've been doing my meditations! The first time I realized I didn't have those awful horrible feelings was really weird.

I realized I had alwasy expected to feel bulldozed, so I had to let that expectation go too.

One thing leads to another. I hope this helps.
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My mom is so full of self pity I don't know how she has room for anymore. Woe is me, what about me, what if you were me... I hear it all the time, "what if you were in my shape?" Wait until you are like me... What if you lived here? on and on.

I still lie about things that are going on so she doesn't feel sorry for herself more. Sunday, I even tried to say, "oh I dread tomorrow, going to work"--thinking she would say oh, I know. BUT NO!! She said, "would you rather go to work tomorrow, or be cooped up in here all day?" I answered: Actually, I would rather be cooped up in here all day.... she looked so puzzled that I would say that., and said, "oh, really?" with a sarcastic laugh. I said, yes, really. She just doesn't think what it was like to work, take care of her house (keep it perfect), her only child, and have dinner on the table every night. She thinks all I have to do is deal with her. I am still laughing over what she said to the staff Sunday...They came to ask her about dinner. She asked what they were having and they said individual pot pies. She ask, is it made with biscuits? They said they weren't sure, she kept on about the biscuit dough until the girl said, yes, I think it is with biscuit dough. Then here it came...."I don't want any then". They asked her what else she would like and even mentioned a few things. Her answer was no, I don't want anything. After they told her to let them know if she changes her mind, she then said. "I guess I will just starve" Ha ha! Feel sorry for me because I don't like what you have. Oh my. I can only imagine what they deal with on a daily basis from her. It's never good enough. More emmisions of guilt from you know who.

Loo loo: Envy is just as bad as poison. It makes the rest of us lie to keep peace. That's okay though. Last year at this time my husband and I went away for the weekend for our anniversary. This is when I was staying with my mom a lot. I had someone come for the weekend so we could go away. I wasn't going to tell her where I was going or what I was doing, but I decided I would tell her being it was our anniversary. BIG mistake. When I came back the lady staying with her told me that is all she talked about that weekend how I decided to go shack up with that man of mine and how he always takes me away from my mother. Good grief. When I went to stay with her she brought it up several times..."did you have fun while I was cooped up here in this house", "aren't you glad you can get out". "don;'t you see him enough everyday, you live with him?" When she asks these questions it is like she is throwing darts. LOL
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Lol, last spring when I was visiting my mother and taking her to a doctor's appt., we were on our way home, and I was trying to find things to make small talk about for the last 10 minutes of the drive. At the time, I was thinking about how best to handle the removal of her car. So I asked her, "How's your car doing?" She shrugged, sighed, and said "Ehhh, who do I have to impress?" Oh, BROTHER. All I could think was, "Only a few more minutes and we're back at her place, and I can turn around and go HOME!" And I had to chuckle thinking that she'll have to find something else to feel sorry for herself about, because in a few months, like it or not, the car's going away!!
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I saw that behavior clearly with my mother for the first time about a year ago. I think most everything became clear all of a sudden at that time! She is so envious all the time, so full of self-pity. I remember noticing how I became very guarded about telling her good things in my life (if my husband and I would be going somewhere nice, if we'd be putting up a Christmas tree, if we had fun with our dog -- whatever it was), and I began reflexively NOT telling her any of these things. I wouldn't mention them, or if she asked me straight out, then I'd lie right back to her ("no plans to go away, just working", "nope, no tree this year"). I was a little surprised at how I didn't even think about it, I just did it, and felt better and safer afterwards. It wasn't until many months later that I realized that she was just plain envious, and begrudged me for having whatever it was.
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