Is it normal she's so negative?

"My question is: When she says these manipulating things and points fingers at me by using others as an example, I am stuck with how to handle it. Do I say anything or just leave like I have been? This is where I am having trouble now, what to do in these situations."

This is a tough thing. There is no training or preparation to hear this kind of stuff coming out of your mother, or any other person really, but it cuts to the quick when it's mom, even if mom has been a royal pain always.

My mom has communicated this way for so long she can't communicate any other way. She isn't even aware that she is being mean, hateful, angry, etc. She has no awareness and therefore no control. This is the way she is and it works for her. It's always served her purposes to put people off and keep them off kilter with this kind of personality & approach.

What can you do? Several things.

== Arm yourself ahead of time. Literally do mental images of putting on armor. For me, I picture myself in a protective bubble she can't pop or get through. It's impenetrable. Inside my bubble it's nice, clean, happy, and I am in control of everything. I don't come out of that bubble until I want to. Mental imagery is really powerful, so find what means something to you and do it - a lot! Find the images that make you feel powerful, strong, and capable. Put on your armor before you walk through the door of where she is. Kind of like the Sheild Wall they make on the Vikings show on History Channel. She is not coming over that Sheild Wall. Tawanda!

==Remind yourself the visit is temporary. It is not like it was as a kid where you had no choice and had to stay and listen to everything until she was done. No way! The visit can be over when you decide it is. This is like the club you carry in addition to your shield.

== Write it, say it, chant it if you need to: This person has zero effect on me. I am not a sponge who soaks up her poison. I am me, separate, happy, and good. Do this a thousand times a day if you need to.

== Visualize her as the weak one, because that's what she really is. You are the strong one. You are only patiently putting up with her mess because you don't need to strike back. You are valuable, powerful, capable, and amazing entirely on your own. You are like the giant oak tree that has a little kid being a brat at its roots. It doesn't affect you one bit. Nothing she can say or do has any meaning or bearing on how you feel and are. The bratty little kid is not going to bring down a big old giant oak.

==In the moment, just ignore what she says. Interrupt her and talk about something completely different. I know, this is rude, right? NO IT IS NOT. Just cut it off mid-sentence and ask her a question about something totally unrelated. Make it random. Make it silly. Anything is allowed if it derails her train and keeps her off the tracks. She is not expecting this, as this is not how mother/daughter dynamics work, so it will be effective at least for a while.

==Afterwards, reward yourself. Take a nap, go for a walk, something that only you can do for you. You earned it. Sometimes my reward is not going back over there for another few weeks. Sometimes it's a massage. Sometimes it's time reading a book or knitting or sewing. I get to pick and I look forward to it. Sometimes it's a big fat margarita! :-D

This is what I do to get through those absolutely stupefyingly traumatic visits with my mom. I hope it works for you! You might come up with your own, so please post them!!

Dearest Jeweltone ~ When I read your post, I couldn't help but thinking your situation was the EXACT situation my dearest friend was in. She, too, was an only child who took care of her aging mother (after her father died 30 years ago). Her mother was in her mid-60's when her father passed away. She (my friend) was newly married and had a little one at the time. When her father passed, her mother couldn't understand why she would not leave her husband and move back home with her to "take care of her". Yikes. Her mother had no cognitive mental decline at that time, only the fact that her husband had passed away and she thought it was her daughter's "duty" to take care of her.

Well, fast forward 30 years --- her mother was now in her mid-80's. My friend obviously never left her husband to live in her mother's home. Her mother managed to live there alone quite nicely. She never drove a car, so my friend would take her mother out for outtings, get a Senior van to take her to the local Senior Center, do her shopping, etc. etc. However, as an only child, my friend felt obligated to call and visit her mother MANY times weekly over the ensuing 30 years, all the while her mother guilt-tripping her for 30 years. When she was 85, Mom decided she wasn't going to go to the Senior Center anymore and that my friend would be her sole caregiver (she refused aides) and provider of all her needs and her entertainment. As an only child, she was totally guilt-tripped about this and resigned herself to her situation. One day, at age 85 her mother fell and was hospitalized and it was determined that it was not safe for her to live alone anymore. My friend made the wise decision to put her in a NH (which was a pretty nice one) and not bring her home to live with her. Well, as you can image sh*t hit the fan and for the next 9 years (until her mother's death), her mother was angry with her daughter. For the next 9 years, my friend dutifully visited her mother EVERY OTHER DAY while she was a resident in the NH. Every other day!!! She also did her Mom's laundry.

Not a day went by that her mother didn't make her life miserable. Telling her what a horrible daughter she was putting her there, more head games, yelling "Noooo" at the top of her lungs. More often than not, my friend would come home in tears after the verbal lashing (abuse). My friend was a saint. Her mother was safe from falls, ate well, clean --- but the terrible guilt my friend bore was so upsetting to her. My heart broke for her. I could only console and be there for her as a friend. I told her her Mom did love her in her own way and that ultimately, the dementia was taking over (she never was diagnosed with Alzheimers) and it was not my friend's fault. Sandwich42 is correct. Heed her words.

So my dearest Jeweltone -- as an only child, you MUST take care of yourself FIRST. You cannot change your Mom's perception and attitude. You must realize it is what it is. You can only limit the effects her behavior has on you. As such, my advice would be to decide how many days/calls/visits you can handle and stick to that schedule. You said it yourself, whatever you do, no matter how many calls/visits etc., the outcome will be the same. You can't fix your Mom. It's a sad situation, but again, in the NH she is safe, gets regular meals and is clean. She is cranky because she cannot change the situation she is in --- her only release is to take it out on the one person she knows will faithfully visit/call her --- you.

Ultimately, my friend's Mom passed away after 9 years in a NH -- her crankiness, guilt-tripping got worse before it got better (meaning, towards the end she was no longer able to communicate with my friend). After her death, my friend felt so guilty --- but ultimately relieved. She knew she did the best she could for her Mom. It's been 5 months now and while she's still sad and grieving, every day that goes by, the grief is lifting.

You know your limits. You know your Mom's situation/crankiness is "NOT your fault and your are NOT a failure because you cannot fix it or make her happy." You have the right attitude and I know you will find peace.

When my friend's Mom would verbally abuse her at the NH, she would just say to her, "Mom, I'm not going to sit here and take it while your saying mean things to me. I've come here to have a nice, pleasant visit with you. If you can't stop saying these things to me, I'll have to leave now." And then she did. She would walk out and not come back until her next scheduled visit. Sometimes it worked. Sometimes it didn't. Whatever happened after she left, she knew the nurses/aides would handle it. My friend had a great relationship with the nurses and her mother's aides. Every time my friend would visit her Mom, she never knew walking into her room whether it would be a good day or a bad day with her mother's attitude. Some visits would be pleasant, most weren't. But my friend hung in there.

If you have good friends who support you and to whom you can talk, by all means, utilize this. If not, seek out support groups and, perhaps, your own mental health therapy if it's too hard to cope. Come to this website, vent, we are here for you. I wish you well and send {{{HUGS}}}.

I just noticed as I read over what you wrote, Sandwich42, 15 years? 15? Oh good golly, I have only done this for 3 years. Actually 5 if I go back before I knew she was ill. I will say I have really dealt with my mom for 46 years (my age), my whole life, but the last 5 years have been truly you know what. No matter what I do, you are right, it WON"T matter. It may matter on a blue Monday, but it WON"T matter if I gave her the moon. It WON:T matter Sam I Am. If I call everyday, if I call two days a week, the outcome will be the same. I really am taking to the part where you say, " They aren't faults or failings on my part. I get to be human in this. I'm not a machine who can go and do everything for everybody every day. I don't owe her or anybody explanations about my choices and behaviors, so I don't bother coming up with them. If she is cranky about something I did or didn't do, oh well. We aren't going to have pleasant visits ever, so it doesn't matter anyway." You are so right, my limits are ok. It is NOT my fault and I am NOT a failure because I cannot fix it or make her happy.

My question is: When she says these manipulating things and points fingers at me by using others as an example, I am stuck with how to handle it. Do I say anything or just leave like I have been? This is where I am having trouble now, what to do in these situations. Thanks again for the inspiring words.

AMEN sister...you have said it perfect!!! Now, put that in my head, immediately. Haha. Even though I feel this exact way, I have yet to make it real. Fantasies yes, and reality is waiting. One day, Sandwich and Looloo, one day!! Mercy is what it is, I do it out of mercy myself. I am trying to think of her as an old woman who needs help.

Sandwich -- thank you, thank you, thank you for this. I just copied and pasted, and will print out and keep with me. SO helpful and comforting to read this. I know eventually this attitude will become part of me, as long as I practice it.

Jeweltone, Baby steps and even some days half-baby steps are wonderous miracles. This is a roller coaster ride from h_ll. You're doing great so far, if you can't tell.

I don't know if this will help you or not. I hope so.
This takes courage, guts, and a spine of cast iron to survive all this, but you can do it.

Here are some of the things I had to come to terms with when it was all new to me:

== I had to give myself permission to do what is necessary, whatever that may be, and even if it's unexpected and undesired. Even if I don't have parental permission in advance.

Mom used to be a mega control freak. However, there came a day where it could not be that way anymore. I took the reigns. I didn't ask for the reigns. I stopped waiting for her to pass them over. I just grabbed them and didn't let go. This is the way it has to be to keep her safe. No sense wasting energy on feelings about it now. I wasted 15 years of feelings patiently cajoling her, trying to get her to see reason about her own situation and future. I can't count the sleepless nights of worry, the quarts of Maalox I took for stomach anxiety over her stupid stubborn refusals of help. No kind of medical emergency would scare her into cooperating. I should have just taken control then instead of trying to partner with her, collaborate, and get her to be part of the decision making. She wasn't capable then anymore than she is today. But all the going advice said to make your senior part of the conversation, get them to pick choices, etc. Little did I know that advice doesn't apply to some situations and precious little is written about this kind of situation.

==I had to give myself permission to be flexible. Some days will stink, some days will be so-so, once in a while there might be a somewhat normal day. It's all ok. Stay loose. Hang ten. Breathe your way through it. You can push the proverbial reset button at any point in the day and as many times as you need to in a day. There were days when I had my finger on the reset button all day long.

== I had to let go of the fantasies. First, I had to realize that some of my wants & goals for her and our relationship were fantasies in the first place!
I love the idea of a pleasant afternoon visit, or a nice friendly meal together, or going on outings, but these are never going to happen with the real mother I have. Her physical and mental person are never going to be that fantasy mother in my head. She's not capable of it. Once I let go of the wishes & fantasies, I can see and accept her for what she is, no more, no less. I quit beating myself up for HER inadequacies. I quit blaming her for constantly pooping on the parade. She can't *not* poop on the parade, so we don't do anything like that anymore. Note I didn't say love her for what she is. Acceptance is NOT saying that it's OK for her to be that way either. It's just a basic sentiment that she is a permanent full time Parade Pooper, so don't bring her to something and expect her to be any other way.

==I am able to do the little bit I can with her, and I mean it's tiny, out of a sense of mercy. I can't even say it's love. It's just mercy. This woman has had a tortured life, full of learning disabilities, untreated mental illness, traumas, the wrong meds, too strong meds, no therapy, no guidance, and no interpreter since my dad died in 1986. He translated the world for her and kept her out of a lot of trouble. She was highly dependent on him and has been a basket case since then. However, I am not his replacement.

== I had to accept my own limits as OK. They aren't faults or failings on my part. I get to be human in this. I'm not a machine who can go and do everything for everybody every day. I don't owe her or anybody explanations about my choices and behaviors, so I don't bother coming up with them. If she is cranky about something I did or didn't do, oh well. We aren't going to have pleasant visits ever, so it doesn't matter anyway.

I would love to go out with my mom, eat in the dining room, go for ice cream, anything other than sit in with her. The only problem is she will NOT go anywhere. She won't even go to the dining room and eat. She has finally decided she will go to the patio and sit with me while I am there. She will at least get out of her room now for a bit. Maybe down the road she will go out for a drive or something.

Emjo: yes, I feel sorry for my mom too for the decisions she has made these past few years, but now I realize it was the illness making the decisions. It is what it is and there isn't any changing it.

I am working on everything else to get myself some freedom from the guilt and her sarcasm. I guess I do hope things will get better as far as her appreciating things I do, even just a visit. She wants me to fix it and I have told her I cannot fix it. After three years I have finally realized I honestly can't fix it. I did try everything possible to try to make it better. Now, I am working toward letting what she says to me roll off my shoulders and think oh well you don't bother me anymore.

Looloo: I cannot imagine having to go take away her car. My mom did quit driving on her own two years ago. She became afraid of everything, driving, the shower, going out, etc. She has lately stated that maybe she could try to drive. Well, it is too late now because her licence expired. I just tell her the doctor stated she couldn't drive. I blame a lot on the doctors and she blames a lot on the medicine she takes...Haha! I also agree with you about loving my mother. Do I tell her I love her? Sometimes I do to make her feel better, but I honestly can't say that I do love her like she would want me to. I see her as a mean, hateful, ungrateful woman that is miserable in her own skin and makes everyone around her miserable as well. I think another thing that is hard for her and me is that she is only 68. She has had to give up a lot and go through so much at such a young age. I know her frustrations also come from not really understanding it all.

I know that I say some of the same things, but please understand this is all new to me and I am really searching for ways for comfort and ways to move forward. When I started here a few months ago, I did the courage through others to put her in AL and not feel bad about it. I am so glad I did because now I know she is safe. When winter comes I will not worry--did the electric go off, is she warm, can I get to her because of the snow, all that will be one less thing on my mind. Winter is my least favorite season, but I will tell you, when it comes I know I will have peace because I can stay home and tell her I can't get out.

Baby steps, one step at a time for me. Thanks for the nudges to take the next step.

Jeweltone--I updated this a few moments ago on another thread, but I didn't call my mother today. I reconsidered and decided to call her Wednesday, before her DMV appointment to turn in her license--or so I thought, until her neighbor called me today. I have no idea what actually occurred, but her neighbor told me that SHE drove my mother to the DMV TODAY, and that she did NOT turn in her license, but instead had a hissy fit about keeping her license. The neighbor said that the DMV wouldn't take her license back because of the HEARING my mother scheduled for this coming Friday!! Which I found about a few weeks ago and tried desperately to cancel, but Obviously I was unsuccessful.
My neighbor said that my mother is continuing to drive, despite it being illegal for her to do so. I told her this numerous times, and she seemed to understand and seemed willing to respect the law. But her dementia is getting worse, and she feels like the one being persecuted and victimized. So she's doing what she damn well feels like doing, and everyone else can go to hell.
Sorry for the long update---the new plan is for my husband and I to go down on Saturday and he will drive her car away. Believe me, she will have an absolute sh-t fit, and will probably not want to speak to me anytime soon. Which will be a blessing. I'll coordinate additional home care for her, and that will be that until the next crisis.

The thing is, I don't have love for my mother. Sorry for sounding corny, but I love life (most days, lol), I love this amazing universe, I love that everyone of us on this planet--we're all in this together. So I draw on that. I can list things about my mother that sound complimentary (great cook, skilled sewer, learned Spanish in college and became a Spanish professor), but I have no fondness or warm feelings for her. Just a wistful, guilty feeling for NOT having loving feelings. And I have a lot of anger towards her--I have since I was very young.

I have found that the less guilt I take on, the less I allow my mother's moods to be my moods, the less I live for her, the better life is for me. I feel my natural joy returning. And she finds others to cling to, which is fine with me. How did I make this change? I couldn't stand the depression and getting nuts myself. A counselor helped me too. I keep saying to myself: I deserve to thrive and greet the day. I often spend time I could have done other things by taking her for a ride, to a new nature spot, or to a store she likes. I can barely tolerate her company. But it does feel good to know that I can do something nice for her: not for her approval but for my own growth. She still complains and she doesn't realize how annoying she is.
She definitely is handling my boundaries better though.

The things that Mom needs that might help you deal with your situation:
1. Other people, strangers, etc. Anyone who gives them attention. Just like a child.
2. Distractions outside of their 4 walls. A ride to a park for a 20 minutes.
3. Eat out and let her pay for it. When you get home: no dishes to do!
4. Call instead of visit. Wear headphones and check your email or do other things while she rants on. Mom can't be bothered to see if what she is saying is really being heard or not. She believes no one can listen and so she makes that happen!
5. Let her know you love her (even while gritting your teeth) and then let it all go.
6. Reward your time with her by doing something nice for yourself.

It is hard to read this as the things your mom says are the same exact things my dad used to say. I am lucky that we got him on a medication that helped him. However, Jewel I have heard you talk about this many times. But until you realize guilt is something you do to yourself, you won't be free of the compulsion to go there. It's maybe because you are hoping by going to see her you can make things better. This will not happen, so until you give up on that unrealistic hope and realize she knows how to manipulate you, you'll continue the visit. You can't change things so why do you continue to think things will? They won't. Either you continue repeating what you are doing that doesn't work, or you decide whether YOU are worth not being verbally abused. This is a pattern of behavior probably deeply ingrained in the relationship with her based on what you written before. Therapy is helpful my dear, for you, to help you set boundaries. Your own brain doesn't deserve the stress this is inflicting. And stress can be a contributing factor of dementia... so think of that the next time you have an urge to visit. Take care of yourself. Hugs!

jewel and loo - I totally relate too. Nothing is good enough. I dread any kind of contact. Mother started moving about 5 years ago. She had been in one city for a long time and then in her apartment out west for about 15 years. I feel sorry for her as her recent choices have landed her in an undesirable situation. Had she agreed to take meds she would have still been in one of the best ALFs in her city, with staff who really cared about her welfare. Now she is in a psychiatric hospital and her options, with or without meds are more and more limited - very limited without meds.


jewel - you can start going once every 2 weeks, or once a week for a shorter time. I don't even go once a month as she is out of town. You need to do right by yourself too.

loo - 1/2 hr at a time is enough - sometimes too much.

(((((hugs))))) to all of us dealing with this.

looloo If this is able to happen, please share how you do it. When I visit for a long period she is irritated, if I only stay an hour then she says I don't stay very long. You are so right, the inability to please them is so hard to understand. My mom has always been hard to please and now it is just worse. I wish I lived farther away from her then it may be easier for the distance, but unfortunately she is only 2 minutes away. I have to pass by the AL every time I go to town for something and the guilt of not stopping, oh well. I am NOT stopping every second only once a week. I tell her I am working even when I am not. My goal was to go see her two or three times a week, have lunch with her and me and my family go up for dinner once a week (doesn't that sound nice?) well, I thought so until we started visiting and she wouldn't come out of her room. I am NOT going to eat in her room with her and listen to the constant complaining. I would have an ulcer and wouldn't be able to digest my food. Life could be so much more enjoyable if she would allow it to be. She chooses this life for herself and I am punished in the meantime. Good luck with your phone call, I totally relate to the feeling in the pit of your stomach.

Jeweltone, I completely relate to what you describe w/your mother. Complete inability to please, to appreciate what you're doing. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I have to call my mother today and am dreading even the brief phone call. Then I have to schedule a visit soon to take care of some her stuff. Hopefully I can time it along with her birthday in a few weeks. And THEN I am telling myself to give myself a break! She is not in AL or memory care yet, but really should have been for at least a year or so now. I will definitely be one of those children who rarely visit. I am thinking maybe one day a month, for no more than 1/2 an hour, and the visits will get even less frequent, and shorter as time goes on.

Good Monday, yay the weekend is over but yesterday was another day from h***. As a reminder, three weeks ago I said my spill to my mom about her complaining and things went better until yesterday. The complaining about some things I can tolerate. Yesterday she got started on her room. "It is dark, so and so has more windows in her room". Why did you choose this room for me--I didn't she chose it. We tried another room and she kept going back to the one she is in. Of course, no one else wanted my room that's why I got it, on and on. We went to look at other rooms in case she chooses to move rooms. Remember also she has moved three houses over the past two years. Of course it MUST be the place since she isn't happy, so let's move once again. UUGH! My mom lived in two houses since she was married to my dad. One I grew up in they lived there 22 years. My parents divorced and my mom moved to another county closer to her work. She lived there for 20 years--my mom just dont up and move, but now since her illness she cannot find contentment. While on our search (the facility is brand new so there are rooms available) we saw some other visitors coming in the building. We were on the second floor looking out the window and she reminded me of people that come ALL the time--like I don't come every single week. Here is the kicker, we saw a grandson (my age) coming to see his grandfather. He moved his grandfather from another state to be closer so he could help him more (great idea for the grandson, I think it was great) My mom looked and said, "Here comes that man's grandson, that's what happens when "they" don't know what to do with "you" /they/ won't take /you/ home with /them/ so /they/ put /you/ in a place like this". (VERBATIM) Really? Yes, she said it. I asked, "are you pointing fingers?" her response, "well, /they/ say, if the shoe fits wear it." yes, she did!! My mom has ALWAYS known how to cut me deep by using other people to give examples of how she feels about me. Others visit, others bring their mom clothes, others others others... Grant it, I do the same things, but she doesn't even see it. Something else always looks better to her--another room, another house, other people's children, on and on. Even though she has frontal lobe dementia, she still knows so much. She is still so much herself. She doesn't forget that much, she is just mean and hateful and miserable. Where I see the difference in my mom is her ability to care for herself now, her inability to shower, to eat, to get dressed and her personality has changed. Even though it is much the same, she no longer laughs or smiles much now. She gets confused about things and how things work. Those are the only differences. I am really to the point, I do NOT want to go anymore. I am tired of the abuse (yes, I have told her) I have a conscience and therefore I go. I thought about it yesterday when I came home and realize I don't have to go, I don't have to do anything now she has people to take care of her but my issue is, How do I stop? Knowing I don't have to is one thing, but me being the person always wanting to do what is "right" is another. I struggle even with my own self..haha. I feel like it is such a waste of day to go to do things for my mom and visit her because I know that is what she wants and then get shot down.

Good morning on Saturday. Here we are another weekend. When people say, "oh, I am so glad it's Friday and the weekend", I really cant say the same thing. I used to look so forward to the weekends. Especially today is rainy, my husband and I used to like curling up with a blanket and watching Lifetime Movies (I know, haha) on rainy days because he doesn't have to mow on these days. Instead, I have to call and check on the most miserable person I know and once again explain myself to her...what I am doing today and why didn't I come yesterday and blah blah. I want a month off. No phone calls, no hair doing, no listening to her, no wondering what she thinks, nothing...just me and my family, no worries. Listen to me, I am starting to sound like "her". Oh, boy.

Sandwich42: My mom has been on so much medicine, but nothing seems to help. She cries alot and they tried prozac for it, but it didn't phase it. She took seroquel too and said she had nightmares and eventually quit taking it. We (caregivers and myself) would even sneak it in something for her to sleep and she would get up and cry that she had the worst nightmare and that she didn't sleep well. It worked like a gem at first. She slept well, seemed happier (if that's possible) but after a month or so she had a hard time with it. Hope it works for your mom, because it did help some with my mom at first. Now my mom only takes a 5mg of a pain med and aleve for her back pain and lorezapam for anxiety. It's not much, but even without it she becomes a worse mess. In April after moving in AL, I got to the pharmacy too late and she had to do without her anxiety med for two days and she was literally a big mess. Wringing her hands, pacing the floors, saying "I can't do this", her eyes as wide as quarters. After giving her one then in 20 min she was a different person. Weird how a small white pill can make a difference. Even though she is like she is, she is so different without the medicine. She is more child like and so nervous without it. My mom doesn't hold her breath, but she constantly tells me NO. She isn't going to do this or that. Drives me crazy. No is her first answer to everything. The doctor told me not to let her tell me no. Okay? Really? She is a 68 year old woman that is my mother. The one who was always in control (...and do I mean control) and now you want me to be in control of a control freak? After three years, I am learning, but I still let her tell me no because it is too hard to fuss with her. The hospice doctor last summer told me the opposite, he told me not to make her do anything. If I offer her something to eat and she won't eat it, then so be it. That really helped me so much. After experimenting with different medicines, she got off of hospice and they put her on pallative care. She still says no and that is ok with me.

Wel, here goes. I will make my phone call and try not to ruin my day.

No, you can't reason with someone who has dementia. The word dementia is the literal opposite of reason. From Latin, from demens, dement- ‘out of one's mind.’

When mom would get her facts all mixed up and start demanding I make sense of it - usually quite angrily- instead of doing that, I just respond with "we are all just doing our best to get by." Over & over. You don't have to rationalize anything. It's a response we've had since birth, to explain ourselves to parents. But that isn't a good idea most of the time anymore.

Then I immediately jump to "It's going to be OK. You are going to be OK. Your job is to just relax and stop worrying." I realize this is a ridiculous statement on my part. Relax is not in her vocabulary. Never has been. Anytime there was quiet time or we were supposed to be on vacation, she would just sit there, wringing her hands and holding her breath. How long can a person hold their breath? Apparently 77 years is one answer. I have never seen anyone else in my life do that.

Today mom started Seroquel to calm down. No amount of prozac and anxiety meds were doing the trick. She may be 5 feet tall and 200 pounds, but her low center of gravity can hit you like a truck. I'm curious to know if she has side effects, or if it will help.

Once again I have done a good deed yet to be noticed. I called my mom tonight and tried to talk positive with her. She asked me, "when were you here on a Monday?'" I told her last week. This week I came on Sunday. She asked why I came on a Monday.--why may you ask? I DON"T KNOW. I told her I came on Monday because she didn't feel like me coming on that particular Sunday. What in the world? I have been confused as she is. HA HA! Then she started crying and asking me if I could get her out of there..(AL) I told her it just wouldn't work her being on her own. She said she was there by herself--no she isn't. Anyway, I told her she wouldn't eat, was afraid to be alone, etc. Why must I explain myself?--Let me tell you people, you CANNOT reason with the unreasonable. She said, "I could move in a little house or something", and I told her no in a nice way once again. Then...it was, "well, alright then" "bye", click. The phone call was over. That has been 6 hours and I am still trying to wrap my brain around it. I don't know why I feel bad, but I do feel bad for her...maybe because she doesn't understand, or may because she really cannot stay alone or maybe because I will NOT be able to go do for her everyday again and I will NOT want to. Either way, I feel bad. If I could have one wish right now, it would be that my mom forget everything. She wouldn't realize how miserable she really is.

Good night all...

It does matter and she doesn't want to admit it. She wants (just like the rest of our moms) pity. "I don't care" is another one of her pity tactics. Poor me, what about me, woe is me...ME ME ME!!! Let's take that big bag and pitch it in the lake. I have a big bag to that is weighing me down too. Anger, resentment, haste, and all the words in the thesaurus pertaining to "them".

I feel like I am starting to sound like my mother. Shut my mouth. I do NOT want to sound like her, be like her, or even look like her.--(even though I do look like her) I hear her voice and I cringe. I can see those looks she gives over and over in my head. When I think of something fun to do or when I wonder what life would be like...I see her face all soured up and those eyes piercing right through me. Oh do I hate the look/looks. The look of "you should feel guilty" "what are you thinking look" the look that says "I could choke you".

Today I have had to tell myself, she is ok, stop thinking about her and her misery. She makes me miserable and I haven't even talk to her since Sunday. WHY I ask myself.--because I let her--because we let them. STOP!! NOW!!

Sounded good anyway. Ha!

I asked mom one time if she wanted to be remembered and missed, or did she want people to say "ding dong the witch is dead"?

Her answer: I don't care. I won't be here.

Another time I asked her why on earth would she not work with me on future planning her old age? Why do you insist on making it as hard on me as possible?

Her Answer again: I don't care. I won't be there. (She always insisted she'd not ever need care and would simply drop dead in her house.)

Nice. So there it is. If there's nothing for her, it doesn't matter. I don't matter. The inconvenience to anyone because of her doesn't matter. That was when I realized I had been carrying around a big bag of resentment for a really long time. And I had to work on that, not her. I'm a long way off from being done working on that big bag.

Oh my, this is all so familiar. Last summer when mother was in hospital she met the family of her room mate and told me what a lovely couple they were and how much they did for their mother. And that they were going to visit her - didn't happen.

They don't get how they affect people, and make up what they want to in order to explain why others stay away. Narcissistic supply indeed. That is what mother is after with her current hunger strike. I would have thought that the psychiatrist would get it. She is refusing food - or was last I heard, but is still drinking and taking her vitamins. It is almost laughable. She said she was taking control. Of what I am not sure. It is an attention getter. One of these days she will go too far, but she has survived her own self created crises for 102 yrs so I suppose she will survive this too.

You are right, loo - it is all or 99 % transactional. I have a very few memories of a "normal" healthy interaction with my mother and fewer with my sister, A couple of years ago I admired a bracelet mother was wearing -a narrow bangle of gold and mother of pearl. She took it off and offered it to me saying she had another identical one. No strings attached, no undertones, no you owe me now - she just gave it to me in an rare act of generosity. I treasure those few memories. They help.

I just saw the other posts about narcissistic... YES!! my mom needs validation from everyone. This has been a life long journey for her. She was always "perfect" to everyone. She NEVER let anyone see her as imperfect. She kept a perfect house, had the perfect job (always head of everything), talented (really was though), and tried to have the perfect kid. When I would do something or even my kids would do something she didn't approve of, oh wow, she really went off. When my dad left her is when she really started letting her issues show. She was embarrassed that her perfect life wasn't so perfect, but of course it was him, not her. I was married and she was alone, oh no! How would she do it? She held on pretty good until about 5 years ago. I truly believe this narcissistic quality does cause dementia later...and our parents are proof.

"If mama ain't happy, then no one is happy"...LOVE IT! It is so true. I have used that at my own home many times, but I never thought to say it about my mom. How true! I am like many of you and very tired of her not being happy. I CANNOT make her happy and neither can any of you do that for your mom. ....and how right you are juddhabuddha, "they wonder why people avoid them". Wow, does people avoid my mom and she knows it. She will say, "so and so used to come in my room and sit on my bed and talk to me and now she just stands at the door and asks me what I want to eat". If only she knew why. Telling her would only make things worse, she would think I am telling her what a bad person she is and the pity party would get started. I also pray everyday I do not get like that. I pray for a healthy body and mind. To be trapped in their mind must be terrible--well we know it is because they let us know and I sure do feel the effects of it.

I am so happy to see you and your sister are starting the process of making amends. Peace is a life necessity. When we have to hold in so much it is like drinking poison. Slowly it is eating away at your mind, body and soul.

Take the books and read them yourself, enjoy and get the last laugh. When I went yesterday to see my mom and do what I think is "right", a man came to visit his mom. My mom said there he comes. He comes EVERYDAY. (I told this already, but....) He didn't stay but 10 min and left. She was disappointed I saw he didnt stay long. I asked one of the workers later and he does NOT come everyday. My mom makes herself miserable believing to herself he comes everyday and I don't.

Father in Heaven, I pray to You to watch over each one of us and keep us safe from the afflictions of dementia and keep us healthy in our minds and our bodies. I also pray that You will also make our land of afflictions fruitful. --In Jesus name I pray, Amen.

What do they get out of it? Narcissistic Supply. (google it)

These people have such under-developed senses of self they rely on the outside world to validate everything. Some even fret that if they are not getting constant, non-stop narcissistic supply they might stop existing. This is something I personally can't get my head around. I'm not going to stop existing because I'm alone in a room. But, this certainty of mine is not true with the NPDs.

It's very existential. They have a physical self, but not a "soul" as I'd call it. We would think that if you need constant praise, attention, and validation, shouldn't you be nice to the people you want it from? These folks don't know how to do that because "nice" requires that you recognize the other person has feelings and is worth some level of human dignity. If you can't recognize that the other meat-bags standing around you in a room are people too, then you really don't have a foundation for sincere niceness. You can learn to fake it and force it though if that serves a purpose.

Remove that narcissistic supply and you get raw, pure narcissistic rage (google it). And we all know what that looks like.

In my mother's case, her ego is everything. She's not interested in relationships, she just wants attention. She doesn't want conversation, she just wants to be the authority, to have an audience. Anything she wants to talk about takes the form of a mini lecture, or a complaint (it used to be hostility disguised as teasing, but I think cognitively, she can't do much of that anymore). If she can't get praise or admiration, she will do the opposite and play the sympathy card. She wants things done for her, but if there's any hint that it's because she's no longer able to do them herself, then it gets very tricky, and handling her denial, envy, and resentment is soul-sucking. She doesn't offer sincere appreciation--in fact, she'll minimize or ignore whatever efforts you might have made on her behalf. She tries to guilt-trip and is full of self-pity. Everything is nothing more than a transaction with my mother. What she wants or doesn't want, if she's momentarily satisfied, or not, at any given moment.

Why has it never occurred to them that to be loved and remembered for kindness is an achievement and is best for everyone?

Maybe their ego is just indignant about it all. What bothers me most is the percentage of aging people getting like this. After struggling to be whatever they strove for, why are many elders destroying all the good and leaving earth with sour faces on their loved ones? Is this really a physical ailment? Or is it a stubborn ego that wants to punish others who are still younger and happier. geez.

juddha, it's the old saying "if Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy." What my mom gets out of this behavior is that all of the grandkids have pulled away, as have a few friends. The few relatives that listen give her the pity, sympathy, outrage at how awful her life is and how badly we're treating her. Me, I think it's a shame to be unable to enjoy a good book because you refuse to admit your body is changing. My kids have instructions to call me on it if I ever start sounding like her.

I just don't get why one feels they MUST be miserable and make sure the ones who are there for them are just as miserable. No one gets Brownie points for this behavior in Heaven, if there is one. It's bad karma for them. What do they get out of this behavior? Pity? Then they wonder why everyone avoids them.

I pray every day I never get like that!

Thanks to the eye doc, Mom can now see clearly in her right eye. Who knew it was so bad that she couldn't read a wall clock. We're thrilled she can read again and thought she would be too. Not.....when I told her I'd get her the latest books in a series she loves, she turned it down. She's bound and determined to be miserable. I'm going to put a couple word puzzle books and paperbacks in her drawer so she can read without me knowing she's doing something fun.....oy.