My Dad lives alone. He was my mom's sole caretaker until she passed in 2020 from Parkinson’s. Dad suffered a couple small strokes after her passing. He recovered well physically and was having some minor memory issues before she passed, but the memory issues are progressing.
He doesn’t drive anymore. I (his only child) manage his finances, hired a cleaning lady, arranged for meals on wheels and do his shopping. Three volunteers from church visit him Mom-Fri for an hour each evening to help him take his insulin and pills and I Handel the weekends. He can still dress, heat up meals in the microwave. I have to beg him to shower and change his clothes but he can handle this on his own. I installed ring cameras to help keep an eye on him.
He doesn’t want to leave his apartment that he’s lived in since he was a child (he’s now 81) but it’s evident to me and my husband that he would be better off in AL. I’m afraid of worse decline if he goes to an unfamiliar place but my family is also in the process of moving out of state to SC and haven’t been able to convince him to move with us. He doesn’t care that AL is so much cheaper in SC than where we live in NY. His finances would cover AL down south with no problem but he’ll wind up on Medicaid here in NY. He’s always been stubborn but it’s frustrating not having him be able to reason… I don’t want to go this route but can he be forced to move if I have guardianship?
I live in California and this was what I was advised to do by a memory care supervisor. I had POA, My husband had dementia and would not go to a doctor. He had lived in our home most of his life. APS said there was nothing I could do, because he had "rights". The supervisor said no one wants to go to menory care and gave me some "magic" words to use. I called 911, told them I was his wife, I had POA and he had dementia. He needed to go to the hospital for an evaluation. It worked, the medics came in, he fought them off, they wrapped him in the sheet off the bed and carted him off to the hospital. The plan was the memory care would pick him up. but it turned out his kidneys had failed and he had only about 10 days to live, so I canceled memory care, we got hospice and brought him home. He lasted just a few days, but he was pain free.
I would try to get him to a doctor to see if he has dementia,
Stop all that help coming in and stop enabling him .
Since you have POA talk to his/your attorney to see where you stand legally, then act.
You can always get him moved after you are moved.
Have you explained what your absence would be like in your father's life? It sounds as though you are involved with different aspects and the loss of that would make a difference. I don't believe you can force him but I would hope that you might be able to persuade him. How does he feel about being more alone without all you do?
Have you visited facilities in SC? I wonder if any literature about places might help him see an alternative choice. I know my mother did not want to age away from me. I hope you find a solution to this dilemma.
If he is still competent then you can not "force" him to move.
Do you have Guardianship? Or will you have to obtain it?
If you do not have to become his Guardian don't do it.
If he is still competent, (most lawyers will have a conversation with a person and if they determine that he is competent then you would be better off getting POA for Health and Financial matters.
Getting Guardianship is expensive and it is a LOT of paperwork.
Moving him will set him back a bit. Does not matter if you are moving him to AL where he is now or in SC.
You can tell him that you are moving.
If he is decisional he can make the decision to move with you to AL or remain where he is.
Is it possible that with the help of the people that come in and help care for him that he could remain where he is? You would probably have to hire people to come in on the weekends. If this is not possible (and I would do this only if he is healthy and the people that come in can be trusted to continue to do so.) The advantage of him staying where he is he has a friend network where he is, he has a community where he is comfortable and knows the area.
The big disadvantage is that you will be hours away from him if something does happen.
The safest thing to do is to tell him that you are moving and he has to move as well. Your next trip to SC you should scout a few AL and find out what requirements are needed. (health forms, TB skin test (or blood test).
Prepare for him to decline, maybe dramatically.
My guess is that ‘FamilyNeeded’ is one of the horror elders who EXPECTS family members to care for her while she does nothing but criticise. And perhaps thinks that she Needs Family (Needs a better Family) because the current lot have given up in disgust.
If he agrees, find him a nice AL and be ready to move him there, NOT in with you. (That rarely turns out well.)
If he says no, and is competant to make that decision, then that is what you have to deal with. Make sure he understands that the offer to help him move down is open if he changes his mind. Expect him to, about the time the weather gets bad and he is all alone.
If he cannot manage on his own that will quickly become obvious even to him. Just make sure you have fiscal control so that he doesn't become a victim to an opportunistic "helper."
Yes
Longer answer:
Only if they have been found by a court to no longer have capacity. The court will have medical experts conduct an evaluation to determine this. If they determine that person does not have capacity they will appoint a guardian. From what I have been told, courts are very conservative about taking away individual rights and the person would have to present a serious danger to themselves or others for a court to rule against them.
In your particular situation I doubt you would be able to obtain guardianship as your dad seems to have capacity. He needs help, but that is not enough to obtain guardianship. If for whatever reason you did obtain guardianship then yes you could force the move.
(copy and paste)
https://projectguardianship.org/issues/guardianship-in-new-york#:~:text=In%20New%20York%2C%20there%20is,other%20guardian%20can%20be%20found.
Try to find in home care for him when he needs it. If he is on medicaid there are programs that will help fund his care and needs. One of the places we have here also allows family to be paid care givers through there program. He can choose who he wants for caregivers.
Why is finding in home care for somebody else our responsibility. Isn’t it the job of the person that needs the help to find the help?
Most of us here tried to warn our parents for years about the inevitable and they happily stuck their heads in the sand … then disaster strikes and it becomes the problem of the kids? Most of us tried to get our parents to accept in home help and they weren’t interested for whatever reason. Don’t be a burden on your family. Make your own arrangements and don’t expect others to pick up your slack. You are kidding yourself if you think it’s reasonable to expect children to put the prime of their lives on hold for an elderly parent who already had the prime of their life. It’s really selfish.
These places are full of lazy people who do not care and just want to make their own lives easy. So they drug everyone. Not the way to live your last years. Forced into a place without even asking you what you want and then just leaving them there to be neglected and often abused too,.
https://www.seniorplanningservices.com/files/2013/12/Santa-Barbara-ADL-IADL-Checklist.pdf
Practice self care and make your move to SC. Try your best with the help of the above professionals to get him moved with you. But you can only do so much if the doctor seems him " competent" for making his own decisions. You could try a personal appeal to your father like asking him if he would move with you to help you out....reduce your worry etc etc.
Be sure to tell his PCP all of the description of how he is receiving help now in his apt. This may be a big part of PCP or geriatric SW assessment also .
Practice good self care !
Tell him it's where he lives now.
Then go clean out the old apartment.
Unless he is declared incompetent, you cannot make the decision about where he will live.
If he is determined to stay put, he can hire home help for more hours each day or evening.
When you say he will not listen to reason, you are basing reason on your own definition.
You could also try a fib that he is going to come live with you and once there take him to the place you picked out saying his room at your house is still being painted and will take a little more time to get ready for him.
It sucks, but almost every single person I know who has had to put their parent in a facility has had to do it by covert means.
'Forcing him into care' is not going to go well. He needs to find out for himself that he can’t cope on his own. Sack the cleaning lady (who probably does other jobs as well), and stop doing his shopping. If that seems a bit harsh, taper it off so he runs out of things he likes.
Perhaps discuss the situation with Meals on Wheels. You arranged it and are probably responsible on their books. If you get yourself out of responsibility, he may find it difficult to sort it out again (and food is the quickest and safest way to make it clear that he needs help). Also discuss the problem with the Church ladies, so they know what is going on. Say that if they continue, they will need to take over the weekend med shift as well.
Good luck!
1 - a medical doctor declares him mentally incompetent to handle his own affairs.
2 - You possess the Power of Attorney or similar legal document (that he has authorized) to give you the right to make decisions for him.
Get a good fib ready and get things moving along. DO NOT buy a bigger house for him to live with you. You will regret both aspects in a very short amount of time. Instead get him to go with you and straight into a nice AL near your new place in SC.
He may not like it but that's really not the point. He needs to be safe and cared for and you need to do what you need to do and have a life.
Best of luck.
The familiarity of a place is sometimes someone that old people cling to. He's probably clinging to the familiar. We could not move ANYTHING in my MIL's house even for safety reasons.
If only life were more easy when people get old.
PoA or guardianship, either won't be much help if he *physically* resists leaving. So, start working on a therapeutic fib. Also consider meds for agitation/anxiety before the move if he isn't already on any (and is compliant in taking them). This may help his level of cooperation for the move.
In my earlier post I mentioned my cousin who had to physically be picked up and carried into the ER by her son... she was NEVER that way before her ALZ. She kicked and bit him. So, just because a person wasn't "like that" in their previous years doesn't mean they won't resort to that in the moment. You will need a plan for this possibility. The police won't be of help in this situation.
Are you driving to SC or flying?
Di, can you return to your thread and let us know if you HAVE guardianship, or if you are just wondering whether of not to GET guardianship? We are in disagreement as to whether you have it already or not.
Because if you indeed already HAVE guardianship then this move is in your hands, and the decisions are all yours.
Will he give you POA?
Can you then get him assessed as incompetent in his own decisions?
Can you get conservatorship for him after an assessment if he will not give you POA?
These are all legal questions if there is no one else in the area responsible to keep an eye on things which sound to be going South figuratively.
Step one is to talk honestly with your father.
Step two is to see an elder law attorney to ask how to proceed, I would thing, if your father is at risk and unwilling or unable to make decisions.
you will know when it comes to this. It will be when you are absolutely at your wits end.
You may need to employ a therapeutic fib to get him to go: "the apartment has a gas leak and the residents need to vacate until it's fixed. We'll vacation in SC while this is being repaired. We have a temporary apartment for you set up until it's time to go back." Something you think he can buy... and hopefully remember. The facility should be in on it -- a good place has seen it all and will be happy to play along.
Good luck -- I wish you success in helping him. Remember to take care of yourself as well!
Have everybody stop helping him and the situation will work itself to AL very quickly. Face it, he is already in AL, it's just you and the town doing all the work - for free.
Am thinking a ‘therapeutic fib” as someone suggested will be the way to go. I’m just afraid of it not working and him digging in his heals …there’s no way I will leave him in NY if/when we move. I am his healthcare proxy and POA. We have talked about him living with us first ( my hubby and college age daughter) but that means buying a bigger house and I’m not sure how much longer I’ll be able to care for him as his needs increase. Lots to think about….just was wondering if guardianship would help or not even make a difference.