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People are going to tell you no, but I think it depends. If your mother is still competent then she can direct you to be paid, it would probably be best if you set up a contract to that effect. When my mother still had rentals she paid me a property management fee, which was also a tax write off for her. Now I am paid for the work I do as her caregiver, but not for the work I do to manage her financial affairs, as that falls under the duties as POA.
Check with your local regulatory authorities by all means, but the general rule is that you will not be able to compensate yourself for time spent on administration or caregiving without your mother's prior agreement to that. It is infuriating and is also nonsensical, in that what you certainly could do is hire someone else to do the job(s) professionally and use your mother's money to pay for their time - be it a care assistant in the home, or an accountant to deal with her financial affairs. Bonkers, yes; but if you were to pay yourself the market rate or even "mates' rates" (as we say in England) you would be benefiting financially from your POA and that is a no-no.
Household expenses: you can and should use your mother's money to cover all additional expense incurred purely for her benefit. It is also reasonable to charge her pro rata for her share of the cost of maintaining the house; and of course you can pay on her behalf for any purchases she would normally/habitually make - her toiletries, gifts to family members, magazine subscriptions, regular activities, or indeed new activities if you can persuade her to join a day centre!
As I say, there might be more leeway in your neck of the woods so do seek advice; but don't take any chances.
I agree you are into a dicey area. Since your mother can not or will not consent to pay you - you are making that decision for her. Without a POA agreement or guardianship you are not legally able to do that. This isn't simply a case of what's fair or what's right but of what is legal. If it were me, Id see an attorney, look to get guardianship and ask a judge to set a fair amount that you can be paid. But I'm the cautious type.
As others have said, your POA paperwork should spell it out if you can be paid for what you do for your mother. I am POA for my mother. Mine says I can charge for various different kinds of services, however, the attorney said, I would want to have a contract drawn up re: what the payment would be and for what. My Mom would not have to sign it....it just has to exist. I did not elect to take payments. At the time, I had no idea how extensive a drain on my time all this would be for two parents....OR how all the money would likely be used up, leaving no inheritance for me or others in the family as my parents desired in their wills and trust.....Medical costs have eaten up everything. But that's how it goes. You do the right thing anyhow, just as you hope that others behind you would do that for you when the need arises. I was told however, that there were certain expenses that I could pay for out of my parents money....for instance, we lived in two different towns, 5 hours apart, and I was having to travel down to them a couple times a month and stay 4-5 days each time, to handle stuff and oversee care needs etc. I was clearly told that I could pay for gas, food needed while traveling and any other expenses associated with having to be there, to my parents account rather than paying for all that out of our household account. For example, if Mom wanted to go out to dinner....the meal went in her debit card, not mine. If I had to buy groceries down there, because Mom hoarded food and no one would eat what was in her fridge....that was acceptable to use her card for. I couldn't have traveled to help them without that OK anyhow, since we live on social security....especially at certain times of the month! So read the POA and talk to the attorney who wrote up the papers about the details of it all.
Thank you cwillie for your response. my mother's dementia track was such that while we knew she was losing competency, she did not. Hence in her mind there was no need to draft any contract. In fact until recently, she considers herself still "working" and handling all her affairs. But the work still had to be done (by me) no matter what her "reality" is. It is bone-crushingly complex and of course had been neglected during her years of waning competence. Anyone else have thoughts? If I document and use reasonable compensation this should be enough.
gelleng, time to get the rental property self-management off your back. If you are able, tell Mom she has two choices.... you can take care of her with the help of the sitters, or you can take care of the rental properties, you cannot do both.... stay firm on that.
As you know Alzheimer's/Dementia [as per your profile] will only get worse meaning more time will be spent taking care of Mom. If the rental properties were with a property management company, with them taking all the phone calls and collecting the rent, life would be easier. And as cwillie said above, it's a business expense that can be written off on taxes.
I think it is perfectly reasonable for you to pay for food for your mum from her account and for a share in the household bills - I would suggest you have look at rental values in your area and then talk it through with an elder attorney
No one works for free, no, but this isn't working. This is a position of trust which you accept when you accept power of attorney. You cannot start helping yourself to the money on the grounds that you are compensating yourself for your time and/or loss of earnings. You cannot charge a fee unless that was a condition agreed upon when the POA was originally drafted.
You can resign POA and see the courts take over responsibility. You could consolidate your mother's assets and make them more manageable that way. But you can't just decide you're going to charge for your time.
elder lawyer told my husband he has a right to pay himself for everything he does w/i reason. elder care, accounting, property maintenance etc b/c someone has to be accountable for these things to be done and if he chooses he can do them himself or hire out. check the POA and how its written.
I would have to say yes on this one because if she has all of these assets you're describing and you're managing them, then it's up to her to pay all expenses out of her own money. If you're managing everything for her on top of taking care of her, then yes, she must pay, and you'd most likely have access to the finances. Paying the expenses is not going to come out of anyone else's pocket but hers since she elected you as the responsible party over her and her affairs. Anytime you have a caregiver who also doubles as manager over your assets such as rental properties and such, this comes with financial responsibility as well because no one works for free these days.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
If your mother is still competent then she can direct you to be paid, it would probably be best if you set up a contract to that effect. When my mother still had rentals she paid me a property management fee, which was also a tax write off for her. Now I am paid for the work I do as her caregiver, but not for the work I do to manage her financial affairs, as that falls under the duties as POA.
Check with your local regulatory authorities by all means, but the general rule is that you will not be able to compensate yourself for time spent on administration or caregiving without your mother's prior agreement to that. It is infuriating and is also nonsensical, in that what you certainly could do is hire someone else to do the job(s) professionally and use your mother's money to pay for their time - be it a care assistant in the home, or an accountant to deal with her financial affairs. Bonkers, yes; but if you were to pay yourself the market rate or even "mates' rates" (as we say in England) you would be benefiting financially from your POA and that is a no-no.
Household expenses: you can and should use your mother's money to cover all additional expense incurred purely for her benefit. It is also reasonable to charge her pro rata for her share of the cost of maintaining the house; and of course you can pay on her behalf for any purchases she would normally/habitually make - her toiletries, gifts to family members, magazine subscriptions, regular activities, or indeed new activities if you can persuade her to join a day centre!
As I say, there might be more leeway in your neck of the woods so do seek advice; but don't take any chances.
As you know Alzheimer's/Dementia [as per your profile] will only get worse meaning more time will be spent taking care of Mom. If the rental properties were with a property management company, with them taking all the phone calls and collecting the rent, life would be easier. And as cwillie said above, it's a business expense that can be written off on taxes.
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/things-you-can-and-cant-do-with-poa-152673.htm
I think it is perfectly reasonable for you to pay for food for your mum from her account and for a share in the household bills - I would suggest you have look at rental values in your area and then talk it through with an elder attorney
You can resign POA and see the courts take over responsibility. You could consolidate your mother's assets and make them more manageable that way. But you can't just decide you're going to charge for your time.
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