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My wife has dementia and we are considering moving to AL with MC. After reading many posts on the AgingCare forum and another forum about using a CELA we want to speak with an elder law attorney making sure we have our “ducks all in a row” before moving.
My thanks to all of you for your replies. You have been very helpful.
My guess is a good one will know the basics of your consultation request and prior may get you some paperwork with basic info to know. Mostly they will want to know the status of the person you care for, and want a snapshot of the financial status to better guide you with decisions/choices to protect them. A list of accounts/balances, assets and debts for starters. Any property owned etc. If nothing else, call the office prior and ask what they may need. You can probably provide this info after the meeting, and have a follow up as needed.
You'll be setting up powers of attorney. Name at least one person you trust, plus a secondary one if the first can't do the job. At this point, obviously you should hand this responsibility to someone other than your wife. You might ask the attorney if you need it for her as her spouse or others should be appointed to handle her care when you no longer can.
You'll also be setting up advance medical directives which are documents that express what you do and do want in terms of care. These include MEDICAL power of attorney, and they're more detailed than a living will where you say "don't hook me up to machines." They're also taken more seriously than living wills by medical professionals.
You'll also be setting up a trust and wills. If you own real estate or have an estate of any real value, a trust is vital. This prevents your family from having to go through the probate process once you die. You'll transfer ownership of your property (house, cars, investments except IRAs) into the trust, so that's where you'll be doing some legwork gathering documents like deeds, pink slips, and financial information. You and your wife will be the Grantors of the Trust (the beneficiaries of it) and the Trustees, although I'd ask the attorney if that's a good idea to have your wife as a Trustee. She'd still be a Grantor/beneficiary, but she may not be competent to do the work of a Trustee, namely, making financial decisions on behalf of the trust.
You will also name successor Trustees -- people who will take over the administration of the trust when you no longer can or don't want to do the work. My parents were the trustees of their trust, and I was the successor. When my dad was diagnosed with cancer, he and my mom (who has dementia) resigned from their roles as trustees, and I took over all their finances and medical decisions (I also hold all the POAs), even though they were both living. When Dad died, I was able to just keep things going without a hiccup.
Finally, you'll set up wills. Trusts are for big-ticket items like real estate and investments, and wills are for saying what you want done with everything else. It's normal to just leave everything to each other, then have back-up beneficiaries like your children. If you have specific bequests, they go in the will ("My class ring I leave to my fraternity brother, Fred," "I leave $1,000 each to my grandchildren"). If there's someone you intentionally want to leave out, you'd mention that here, too.
You want to discuss with your choice of successor trustee and holders of your POAs your intent to name them to these roles. No one wants to be surprised to find out they're responsible for someone else's health and finances. This isn't like reading the will and being surprised with what you're getting; it's a time-consuming job that someone needs to be on board with.
A good attorney will also provide you with a list of what to do when the first one of you dies. There are a number of tasks, so it's good to have that list for yourself or your successors.
One more thing -- I recommend that you go to your bank and any other financial institution and filling out THEIR power of attorney paperwork, too, because they tend not to like the ones your attorney will prepare. Your appointed PoA needs to be able to access your accounts in an emergency, and banks make it very hard to do unless you already made it clear to them who that person is and that they have your authorization. Do it before you're not capable, and life will be much easier for everyone.
Don't worry about being charged by the attorney for every question that comes up. Make sure you're comfortable with what's going on.
What is the purpose of your appointment? There are many areas of law a CELA can help with, but they're not all proficient in all areas of elder law. Knowing the purpose of your visit will help in listing your questions and anticipating theirs.
Stacy122, thank you for your reply. I’ll take my wife with me, at least, to the first appointment with an attorney. She still likes to go with me so she doesn’t feel left out and can help make decisions. The attorney can ask her if she gives permission for me to speak in her behalf if necessary.
Mj1929, thank you! You gave me a lot to think about and to get busy getting things done even before or while searching for the right CELA.
I am truly thankful I found this forum, not just Elder Law but the others I have read posts on. I have learned a lot from everyone and still have more to learn!
My experience with a CELA in FL when my aunt wanted to create her documents was that the attorney initially did not have me in the meeting, just my aunt and the attorney (even though she was going to assign me as her durable PoA), to determine that she was not being coerced and that she understood what she was doing. Don't be surprised if the attorney asks to meet with your wife privately first. I recommend your PoA is durable, not springing, as this is less onerous to the PoA. Read around the forum to see how much stress and effort it takes to get a reticent LO in to the doctor for the cognitive exam (and no one ever wants to think it's going to be them). Find a PoA who is significantly younger, like 25 years or more, and definitely assign a back-up PoA. Make sure all of your medical doctors have the most updated copy of your Advance Care Directive. The attorney having a copy means nothing at the time of a medical crisis. If you have specific health issues, discuss what your doctor thinks should be part of your Directive. Update this doc as you both age and give copies to your medical team and the MPoA.
Mj1929, thank you for the info you passed on to me. The one thing that stuck out was to get with our bank concerning their POA. I was reminded of a friend who said they had a heck of a time with the bank when his dad passed away because they didn’t know banks have their own idea of POA’s. I left a voicemail yesterday with the bank official I trust. I know she will be a big help.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
My thanks to all of you for your replies. You have been very helpful.
I hope the meeting with the elder care attorney goes well, and I hope you will come back and update us. Wishing you the best of luck!
You'll also be setting up advance medical directives which are documents that express what you do and do want in terms of care. These include MEDICAL power of attorney, and they're more detailed than a living will where you say "don't hook me up to machines." They're also taken more seriously than living wills by medical professionals.
You'll also be setting up a trust and wills. If you own real estate or have an estate of any real value, a trust is vital. This prevents your family from having to go through the probate process once you die. You'll transfer ownership of your property (house, cars, investments except IRAs) into the trust, so that's where you'll be doing some legwork gathering documents like deeds, pink slips, and financial information. You and your wife will be the Grantors of the Trust (the beneficiaries of it) and the Trustees, although I'd ask the attorney if that's a good idea to have your wife as a Trustee. She'd still be a Grantor/beneficiary, but she may not be competent to do the work of a Trustee, namely, making financial decisions on behalf of the trust.
You will also name successor Trustees -- people who will take over the administration of the trust when you no longer can or don't want to do the work. My parents were the trustees of their trust, and I was the successor. When my dad was diagnosed with cancer, he and my mom (who has dementia) resigned from their roles as trustees, and I took over all their finances and medical decisions (I also hold all the POAs), even though they were both living. When Dad died, I was able to just keep things going without a hiccup.
Finally, you'll set up wills. Trusts are for big-ticket items like real estate and investments, and wills are for saying what you want done with everything else. It's normal to just leave everything to each other, then have back-up beneficiaries like your children. If you have specific bequests, they go in the will ("My class ring I leave to my fraternity brother, Fred," "I leave $1,000 each to my grandchildren"). If there's someone you intentionally want to leave out, you'd mention that here, too.
You want to discuss with your choice of successor trustee and holders of your POAs your intent to name them to these roles. No one wants to be surprised to find out they're responsible for someone else's health and finances. This isn't like reading the will and being surprised with what you're getting; it's a time-consuming job that someone needs to be on board with.
A good attorney will also provide you with a list of what to do when the first one of you dies. There are a number of tasks, so it's good to have that list for yourself or your successors.
One more thing -- I recommend that you go to your bank and any other financial institution and filling out THEIR power of attorney paperwork, too, because they tend not to like the ones your attorney will prepare. Your appointed PoA needs to be able to access your accounts in an emergency, and banks make it very hard to do unless you already made it clear to them who that person is and that they have your authorization. Do it before you're not capable, and life will be much easier for everyone.
Don't worry about being charged by the attorney for every question that comes up. Make sure you're comfortable with what's going on.
Mj1929, thank you! You gave me a lot to think about and to get busy getting things done even before or while searching for the right CELA.
I am truly thankful I found this forum, not just Elder Law but the others I have read posts on. I have learned a lot from everyone and still have more to learn!