Sickandtired08 Asked April 2018
Does anyone else have a mother with dementia that "pits" her children against each other?
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My mom has always pitted her children against each other. What I mean is when she's with one of her kids, she would talk bad about another one of her kids or say how she can't stand them. Now that she's got dementia it seems to be amplified. She's convinced I'm stealing from her and my sister (estranged would be a good word here) feeds into that. She and my mom have made some financial transactions that are now in question by social services. I'm at the end of my rope and ready to just walk away. The stress of dealing with my mom is enough but dealing with other family members who question everything I do or have done but were never around in the beginning to offer help or assistance. Has anyone else ever dealt with this?
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This worked well for many years (I’d usually come home in a foul mood).
And then my mom developed dementia. I was suddenly sucked back into madness at the speed of light. I was completely unprepared for this forced contact with my father. He makes everything more difficult than it’d even normally be.
I began to see clearly once mom settled into the ALF. (I was in very poor health during this time and that’s another story.) My mom seems a lot happier and I think her meds are adjusted now.
For my entire life my father had me snowed. He’d create discord between my mother, daughter and me. He played us like violins! His goal in life is to be in control. Eventually my health just broke. I’m bedbound and seeing specialists to try to get my health back. What they call ‘burnout’ happened to me quickly, since I already had health problems!!
For my daughter, it’s been harder. She’s a grown woman though and I see her waking up. The cruel manipulative bastard (dad) has done damage to my mom daughter and me.
I haven’t spoken to him now all winter. I’m in bed, possibly will need surgery, can’t eat, vomiting, etc. (I asked the doctor could it be psychological. He said “Not with all this evidence!”) So if you have any chronic illness or even acute illness, the stress makes it worse.
Right now, if I must speak to him about Mother, I will. But so far my daughter has been there for her. Do you know why I feel guilty? Because I didn’t figure things out until now, that my mom never divorced him and the work my daughter does to help mom feels like I’m neglecting her. Many many regrets haunt me.
But if I never saw my dad again it’s fine with me.
You can be the one that stops the negative effect on future generations, you have already started by protecting your son, when you feel sorry for her, think of the crap she tried to do to your son or something she said, this can help you stay just angry enough to not buy any of her crap until you find a healthier way. My family had to be told many times that my DH is off limits, one word and I jumped on their butts, I have even disconnected completely from those that couldn't or wouldn't leave him be. Not that I have any real contact with any of them, I moved to another state.
Strength and wisdom be granted to you by God Almighty to find your way out. HUGS 2 u!
Don't lose heart! What you've done is take the first steps toward healing: The decisions to go "low contact" and following through. Bravo!
By establishing firm boundaries you're taking a stand, in essence saying "I refuse to be manipulated by FOG (fear, obligation and guilt). I refuse to allow you to hurt me and those I love. I refuse to listen to your divisive stories!" Your mom is toxic and won't change.
Breaking old patterns is hard; I know! But it gets easier. Every time you dodge the bullet, you take away her power and gain strength! At some point you'll feel lighter, happier, and free-er than you have for ages because you set firm boundaries. This is all healthy! You weren't put here on earth to be your mom's punching bag. No guilt!
I would suggest blocking or monitoring your mom's calls. Should you take a call, when she starts her negative talk, tell her someone's at the door and you have to go. If you go visit her, as soon as she starts her negative talk, tell her you're "going to leave and come back some time when she feels better." This works for individuals with or without dementia. Some people go all the way to no contact; that may or may not be right for you. For the present, I've found low contact works best for me.
You don't necessarily have to announce to friends and relatives what you're doing. No one will take care of you but you! Love yourself, Sick and Tired. You're worth it!
The fallout from the type of conduct you described is terribly destructive and far-reaching. My mom, still alive at 93 with dementia, does the same: talking trash to family members about each other in order to keep them upset with each other and thereby maintaining control.
Your post caught my eye because my family recently dealt with this dynamic in a positive way. For years Mom tore us down to each other, and it took an in-law to point out her purpose: a family divided is more easily controlled. Oh, the power she must have felt! And oh, the path of destruction she left behind: the grief, the misunderstandings, the the love lost! I call her the Love Thief.
Then Dad passed away, and we placed Mom (with dementia) in memory care. Understandably, Mom mourns her loss of control, and I sympathize, but only to a point. The dementia only increased her narcissistic behavior, and she struck out wildly to take it back.
Out of necessity, Dad's death brought the family together, along with the need to make decisions concerning Mom. In each other's presence, we saw her efforts to divide us. We talked, and in talking, finally understood Mom's trash talk for what it was: a desperate bid to take back her power. I, for one, understood and sympathized with her losses, but felt a united family effort would prevent her from dividing us further.
It took awhile for everyone to understand what was going on. Finally, everyone got on board. Now when Mom vilifies us to each other, we tell her we love that family member, and they love us in return. We let her know we're united on the issues surrounding her care (which is true). When she persists in tearing someone down, we tell her we don't "see it that way." Mom doesn't like this, of course, and it's true our unity is no match for Mom's dementia. She couldn't change in the long term even if she wanted too; a 90-year way of coping doesn't simply "go away." Doesn't matter. She can't divide us any longer with lies and slander; we won't let her! Now that we all understand the extent of Mom's malfunction, misunderstandings have cleared up, connections are reestablished, love is restored! It's too late for Dad, but not for us! In quiet moments I think of Daddy looking down from heaven. And like his children and grandchildren, he finally understands.
I always wondered why she would tell different stories to different people but seeing that it is a power play makes a lot of sense.
Her parents were immigrants and she was an only child...They kept a very tight rein on her. Her mother made beautiful embroidery, crocheting, quilting...just about any handcraft. She felt she never compared well with her mom. She probably learned to lie early in life to get what she wanted.
Thanks for the insight and SandT08, you are not alone!
There is the website "Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers", and also many long strings on dysfunctional families and narcissistic mothers on this site. On YouTube there are hundreds of videos on problem families and personality disorders; two good ones are Jerry Wise and also Scott Bassett. I've gotten more comfort from comment sections and youtube videos than counseling, which can be expensive and time consuming and many counselors don't understand narcissism or give harmful advice.
I'm not worried about the investigation by social services. I haven't done anything wrong. In March, I went for 3 weeks without going to see my mom. That's the longest I've ever been without seeing her. During that time, I didn't talk to her for 10 days. I've NEVER gone a day without talking to her, usually multiple times.
I am her POA, Durable and Healthcare. My sister has never been able to stomach that. Has made statements that usually the oldest (which she isn't) is the POA. I'm the baby of 5. I was the last child at home and always took care of my mom and my step-dad. For the last month or so, I've been trying to live my own life. I have an 8 year old that my mom has threatened to have taken away from me, she's been ugly to him..it goes on and on. I don't want him exposed to that. I want him to have as normal a life as possible without wondering if he's good enough, if he's too fat, if he's too smart, etc. Being a kid is hard enough in today's world. He doesn't have to deal with that crap.
Sorry to go off on a tangent. I really do appreciate all of your insights and advice. It helps to know I'm not alone in this struggle.
Us kids were rarely if ever alone together without the parents there to direct and control.
You are not alone. Flee if you can because the personality traits only amplify, any filter comes off, especially with dementia. Any thing wrong, real or imagined will fall on you. Distance, boundaries will pay off. Take care.
Everyone has a relationship with her but not with each other. For instance, when I was growing up she acted like best girlfriends with my younger sister and I was excluded. My sister and I are of course estranged and my mother likes that. When my sister and I did try to get to know each other my mother would say "Wait a minute--you guys don't get along, remember?"
Her eyes pop and she seethes if I even talk with my brother; he won't even look at me because it clearly makes her mad. (I am 61, 40 lbs overweight and showing the effects of gravity, but she still seethes with jealousy when it comes to me.)
She has a large group of friends whom she lies to (about her goodness) and leads around by the nose. They all seem to agree that she's a saint, but if anyone notices that something might be wrong with her this frail 90 year old narcissist wacks them back into line. They're so afraid of not having friends that they comply.
I left as a young girl but visited for many years. She got meaner and meaner with each visit so I eventually became estranged for 15 years but then recently returned to help her in her twilight years. I had visions of baking her bread, mowing her lawn and running her errands, but she wants no help. It infuriates her that my nephews, brother, etc. like me and are glad I came back. No amount of talking or reasoning on my part has ever gotten through to her.
She is meaner than ever--sadistic. The only time she laughs is when she sees someone getting beat up on television or that I am hurt in some way. She is toxic and I can't stand her. I've given up for the last time. I live 3 instead of 3000 miles from her now and once again find that I can't bear the thought of seeing her or hearing her voice or even seeing her handwriting. I wasted so much on her.
Trust your gut. Nothing is going to change. You don't have to be around her/them if it makes you feel bad and wastes your life force. They don't care about you or they wouldn't treat you this way so why should you be there? You only get one life and I urge you not to waste it.
The acting of pitting people against each other is called "triangulation." It is not typically a sign of dementia, if they are doing it on purpose and not absentmindedly.
It is however a sign of either overt or covert narcissistic personality disorder, particularly because you noted that your mother has been doing this all her life.
(Frustrated124 wrote of her mother: It seems the more I do for her the worse she treats me. My mother is also old school - convinced that mothers shouldn’t apologize for their behavior since they are older in wiser....Last time she insulted me was two weeks ago, we haven’t spoken since. My advice to you would be - walk away.)
That is not a sign of being "old school," It is the sign of a personality disordered individual.
A normal healthy person will want to apologize if they are in the wrong. If a person refuses to ever apologize you are usually dealing with a personality disordered person.
My mother has always been divisive, and as a result, my sister and I have never been close. Sis harbors a deep well of resentment against me, which I have just realized in the last few years. Why? I don't know. I have just the one sibling (out-of-state) but there are local cousins who see fit to inject themselves in my family's affairs. Last summer, sister and cousins pulled a fast one, something so disrespectful (to me) and so unwise (for mother) that even I couldn't ignore it to keep the peace, which has been my MO for years since moving back to my hometown. I decided it was time to take a step back. I no longer deal with sister and cousins. I ignore them. I would like to do the same with mom, but that would bring a world of drama down on me. So I continue to fetch her groceries once a week and I take her out for a meal on major holidays. That is it. And I feel so much better.
Now I'm thinking about resigning my co-POA (with sis) because I feel I have all the responsibility but no authority. Mom has been found legally competent so she still makes her own decisions. Some of her decisions are dumb and self-defeating, but she has her chorus of enablers so there's nothing I can do to help her.
Another natural consequence is that I no longer make myself available to step-and-fetch for mom. Let those local cousins do it.
RE: questionable financial transactions: don't sweat it as you were not involved. Tell your sister she can have the job and walk away. I did that with my sister and I slept better for it. I never refused to help, but it doesn't take an army to change a light-bulb. Too many cooks really will spoil the broth. If your sister wants to take charge - let her, and go forth and enjoy your life.
The idea of “setting your boundaries” and practicing your ability to do so, can help. In my life, it helps but it never wipes away the fundamental pain and injustice that can accompanies a family system that places advantage-gains over problem solving, self-awareness, and empathy.
If social services is aware of misuse of funds, they will probably get to the bottom of it. Though social services may alleviate the financial wrong, it seems only a trustworthy therapist can function as a “good parent” to help you deal with the hurt. Some people invoke prayer to give them strength to set fair boundaries and figure out how to do the right thing at the same time. It’s not easy. Others repeat mantras or put post-its on their mirror reminding them that they deserve to breath fresh air and thrive.
My therapist recently told me: “Every living creature deserves to defend itself against threat.” I am having to learn how to become aware when I am threatened. I truly believed I was a irredeemable bad person because I internalized my mother proclaiming I was the “bad one.” My sister is trying to learn to become aware as well, because she has her own wounds from having been accused of being the “bad one.” Though we are in our sixties, we are finally becoming real friends who can laugh and cry over this!
I imagine you struggle with the blood curdling unfairness of your family not being able to step outside their traps. You know there is something wrong, but feel helpless and keep stepping into the traps. There are many others on this site that have written about unhelpful/hurtful siblings and manipulative parents. Believe me, you are not alone.
I know it hurts terribly. Think about how you can set boundaries and put one foot forward at a time. If social services is involved, that is good. If you don’t have power of attorney (perhaps your sister does), I’m going to take a wild guess that you may be interviewed by social services if you are involved in your mother’s care or named as an important person by your mother when she switches her allegiance.
Think of your mother as a shape shifter and try to back off when her indictments are against you. Disengage. Say, “I have to leave for a while.” The more you practice this, the better it feels.
I am so sorry you are going through this. I do hope others on this site will answer as well because you deserve the best. I hope they will help you define your problem and set a course where you won’t be helpless.