So I will try to keep this brief but apologies since I am in panic mode. I placed my mom around a year and half ago, became an issue with my wife. So around 8 months ago they said my mom needed hospice since she stopped eating and lost a lot of weight. I explained my mom just needs someone to engage with her while she eats. They claimed that is what they were doing. She ate fine with me but I said fine let's do hospice.
Now they still gave her meals but since she had someone with her she eat and gained weight, and "regained" her appetite so they removed her from hospice. Once they removed the person that was with her she stopped eating again. She once again lost weight, same thing but now that she gained weight again I am being told they cannot meet her needs.
This is a SNF memory care. Idk what to do at this point, my wife will not let me bring her home for the Holidays now since she is afraid if I do that we will be stuck with her.
My theory it is a communication issue, about two years ago she started to blend all the languages she knew into one. I was able to still communicate with her while not as fluent as she was I did know the same languages since she taught me.
Cannot speak them very well but she can understand standalone languages. Just for whatever reason cannot speak them. She also does not advocate or present signs of being hungry with others. She does not want to burden them, I explain they are here to help her but dementia she forgets in moments. Which is one of the factors that lead to hospice she became very lethargic but that happens when you do eat much.
So now I am stuck, they started the paperwork to remove her and as her legal guardian I am been informed it is my duty to find her suitable placement. My attorney did explain that even though they facility did agree to take my mom a facility can cite changes as a grounds for removal. Also, as her guardian they technically don't have to help me find suitable replacement options since part of the order does make me responsible for that.
So I am screwed? My told me she would leave me and take the kids if I take my mom in. Though the hospital told me without a proper medical emergency or reason as her guardian I cannot claim unsafe discharge. My attorney also confirmed this. I did start the process to be removed but that will take time, which is something I do not have.
My mother is 67 she had early onset. Reason for guardianship was she did not have the proper documentation setup. She does have Medicaid and it was a pain to find her current placement. Once I found a place I did not think I would need to find another so stopped looking once she was placed. Been told the fact she is being removed will also make it hard to place her, especially with this feeding issue. She is a liability at that point since now it is documented any facility will have to agree to provide her with a one to one for meal times since she is capable of feeding herself but dementia issues. IDK that is what I have been told.
"Please tell me in what way you, a Skilled Nursing Facility, are unable to meet my mother's needs. She has a need to be kept clean, to be fed or attempted to feed, to be cleansed when incontinent, to prevent bedsores, to give what time and attention can be spared, and to be medicated/ I need you to tell me in writing what needs of my mother you are unable to meet".
I am beginning to think it is perhaps the family's needs that cannot be met? Because there are truly few needs your mother has now other than comfort, kindness, what protection of skin and dignity can be accomplished, to be fed and medicated and changed.
This is what they are trained to do, so what they said to you, on the face of it is UTTER NONSENSE. OR they should lose their license to give care.
After reading all your answers to our suggestions, and after your providing further information in these answers I must tell you that I agree with your wife absolutely.
LEAVE HER BE.
I think that your mother, at 67 and diagnosed with early onset of Alzheimer's now faces a life of ongoing absolute misery. FORCING FOOD to make her endure this life longer, is to my mind a very poor decision. BUT you are her guardian, and you are the one responsible for this decision.
I think it is your unreasonable demands to the SNF that has led them to say that they cannot provide the care that YOU EXPECT of them. So in that case they are absolutely correct. You are guardian. If you need more care than they are reasonably giving, then you will need to find that care. You and I both know that you will not be able to do so.
I think the main issue here is that you are having a terrible time accepting the diagnosis and prognosis here. It is early Alzheimer's. Your mom will go on as long now as she must. At 80 pounds that may not be a lot longer. And to be honest, Hospice and a comfortable death would now be my personal goal were this my loved one. I have a DAUGHTER 63. I would not want her to live longer, given what life in this condition will be.
The answer here is not more food.
This is where the problem comes up, my mom is doing it again so both myself and the facility are in a bind. We know exactly what can be done to get her to eat and it is the end of the year so I am getting ready to submit my annual report. I legally have to disclose my mother was on hospice due to not eating and losing a great deal of weight. I will have to mention the facility removed her as she regained weight and became more engaged again.
So if she is going through the same thing again first thing they are going to ask is why did we removal a protocol that worked when it came to eating. That is the core issue here.
The 80 bounds was the first time around, she was removed after she got back to 117. The issue is now she is showing the same signs of doing what she was before. Not eating, being withdrawn etcetera.
The facility does not want to do hospice cause she is not at the dangerous weigh yet but they also dont want to deal with her because they will also be questioned why they did not adhere to a protocol that worked for my mom. She lost about 10 pounds so far, the writing is on the wall so they are trying to kick her out before they are forced into an undesirable situation. She is around 107 now.
I am going to go to eating with her, until I can find another solution. My wife is not pleased. This is the same part my wife does not understand, I legally cannot just let her starve especially if I know a means that she will eat without forcing her to eat. Same with the facility they can also get in trouble if she goes through around stint with her on hospice for something that could have been avoided. Thus why they want her gone before she gets to that point.
Not like we are putting a feeding tube or stuff, all that was done was ahe had a one to one and she ate. Neither of us would be able to easily explain why she is losing weight when a simple solution exists. THus why I am going back to eating with her despite my wife being upset cause I have no other option at this time. I need to buy myself more time to find a better solution.
Even spoke with my attorney last night, letting someone with dementia starve themselves to death a murky area especially if they have been deemed to lack capacity. They don't have the judgement to make reasonable choices anymore and yes the facility and myself can be held liable if it was found out we knew what was going on and ignored it because she is suffering. We legally cannot determine suffering and with guardianship it gets murky cause everything is documented. We have no plausible deniability.
I am wondering if your once-a-day meal visit is enough. Perhaps you can hire a person for the midday meal on Saturday and Sunday. That’s only ~$50 a week. Our AL has several “off menu” items you can order any meal, like toast and an egg or other light and simple things. Perhaps there is something like that they can serve her, but if she doesn’t eat it’s no big deal. I do not think three meals a day is necessary, and if she skips breakfast and won’t eat much dinner that’s ok if she had a good lunch. Again, perhaps focus on getting one good meal a day in, not three.
1) Contacting APS, and getting comments in writing.
2) Contacting your local member of parliament and any other local dignitory, so ask for their advice. Document that too.
3) Seeing more than one attorney, and seeing any free legal service you can find. Document the advice.
Even if what you get is ‘nobody knows’, that’s better protection than simply making up your own mind.
I agree with the poster below who states that you going there 3 times a day is not necessary to see that your mother eats enough. Her calorie needs will not be great, and should be able to be met. as someone suggested by a couple of smoothie type meals a day. I suspect you going there 3 times a day is more about meeting your needs than hers.
Do you have a job? How can you maintain work while devoting this much time to your mother? It seems to me not doable.
Personally I would be scouring the countryside to find a facility who would give your mother attention at meals. When my mother was in an NH. the aides helped her and others to eat.
Your stated solution is to be with your mother for three meals a day. Looking for another facility comes after that. So you may be bound to this regime for some time. I have to wonder at your motivation and your ties to your mother. All the legal speak seems to me to be justifying your position. And all this at the cost of your immediate family - wife and child/children. I find it quite sad.
BB is putting an enormous effort into supporting what he has decided to do. If he manages to post this on his phone on the one-hour trip home, he would definitely be in legal trouble where I am. If he is doing it at work, he needs to concentrate on getting a raise. He has been trained into this by a very clever 67 year old. W is better off out of it.
If you must know, I do park and ride. So I am not driving the entire way to work. Secondly sometimes things are slow and I check my phone throughout the day.
Maybe if we had dual income household I could use money instead of time but I cannot force my wife to work. That is her call and her choice. All I can do is provide the best possible care I can for those in my life.
Also remember the neglect is based off the end result. If she is not eating and dies from starvation you really think courts will be like yeah she was old it happens? I think you are underestimating that some courts actually care about the wellbeing of their wards.
The end result is what will determine the neglect not just the action in itself.
Leaving your 6 year old alone is not inherently illegal. If nothing bad happens no one is none the wiser. Is it smart? Probably not but sometimes it has to be done.
Though if your six year old burns down the apartment due to not being under supervision you think courts give a shit about the raw intent in the grand scheme of the end result?
She suggested we sell the house and leave the state move across the country. She is of the mindset the state will not come after me if I leave. I get she is scared, I don't make enough to sustain two house holds and caregivers ontop of that.
Some level of care will fall on her since I am the sole source of income and have to work. We are talking about having her possibly go back to work part time while the kids are in school so we can pay someone to be with mom at meal time. She is opposed to this, she feels if she has to work that money should go towards our kids.
So just wondering what could your husband have said or done to stay married? Or was it a non starter?
You have accepted the fate of divorce and estrangement from your children for mother doesn’t care that her selfish actions are hurting her son.
I am sorry to hear this.
Can you place her in the first available facility that has a bed available? I see no reason why you need to go through the trouble of looking a nice facility.
The issue is even if she is playing me as her guardian I am responsible for her. Placement is also not aa simple as finding a new place. With guardianship I need court approval to place or relocate her. So even if I find a place willing to take her if they don't agree to the plan of care in the order. With this issue of feeding popping up again and I will have to mention it most likely going forward it will he added to the orders plan of care. Which is just another hurdle.
I am not keen on the idea but I need more time and this is the only way to buy myself more time. End of the day if this is a long con I cannot just let her starve herself to death especially if I know of something that can be done that promotes and encourages her to eat.
No judge is going to understand the issues my wife has either.
This can be very true even in a skilled nursing facility where the nurses and CNAs there just do not have the time to sit with all their patients and see that they eat. Your mom needs a buddy. I would try to place her back in memory care And hire a private aide from lunch time until early afternoon or dinner time. Maybe 3 hours a day or so . Make sure that this is someone that you really like and that your mom takes to as well. Also try supplementing her with ensure or boost drinks or anything that will put calories in her.
Your wife has made it very clear that she does not want to bring your mom into the home. It is extremely difficult to care for your own parents and it wears away at you. You want to be your mom's son not her caregiver. But find her someone to be her buddy. I did this very often and honestly it does work. My best to you
The facility is also going to be in full CYA mode they are 100% also documenting everything. When it comes to dealing with Guardianship and courts being proactive is generally for the best.
OP don't gamble with the courts you are not rich, you are a normal person.