My father has been living in his AL MC facility for around three years now. I only recently took over the role as a primary advocate. My mother passed away earlier this year. So earlier last week I saw my dad flirting and kissing multiple female residents. I spoke with the staff and they told me that is how my dad has been and they don't get complaints so it is all good. Idk this does not sit right with me, should I try to address it. My father is young and old he is 68. I know my dad has always been a ladies man. He cheated on my mom a few times so this behavior is not exactly out of pocket for him. The staff seem to be aware and okay with it. So I guess it is okay no?
It doesn’t matter if people are “having fun” , “enjoying closeness”or however we want to categorize what is going on.
No consent? Assault.
This issue is deeper than just your dad and not wanting to have to re-locate him. You NEED to consider the women he is approaching / touching / flirting with.
Of course you don't want to have to re-move him to another facility. With this history, another facility may not want to take him, either (I don't know). I think you need to consider everyone concerned, and the potential of a lawsuit if your dad 'acts' inappropriately.
This could be a law suit for the facility - although this is a very common concern and staff 'should know' how to manage / deal with it.
My concern would be, in addition to being inappropriate (if it is ...) is some females may either not be able to assert themselves / needs / desires and others with dementia could easily be taken advantage, too.
For staff to respond to you 'they don't get complaints' tells me that they:
* do not discuss with administrator
* do not know how to manage these situations
* do not have the experience / mindfulness to understand that some residents are vulnerable and unable to set boundaries - which should be 101 for facility staff/managers / administrator.
If you are okay, then so be it. Or perhaps your last sentence/question says that you do not know how to proceed, if at all.
It sounds like you are deferring to staff (whoever you spoke to).
If you are okay with this, then there is no issue - for you and/or your dad. He will continue to have a good time. However, what IF / when (if not already) he takes this a few steps further and ends up in someone's bed?
If it were me, I would be MORE CONCERNED with the female residents - and see it as a major RED FLAG that they do not consider how female residents need protection due to vulnerabilities and feeling confused and/or lonely or both.
And, who knows ... if a female resident's family member files a complaint, you/r dad may be sued and/or held accountable along with the facility.
I would also consider calling the facility's licensing board and see what they say. I believe (?) there 'must' be some clear guidelines / rules and regulations that facilities need to follow in these matters.
The challenge, too, is realizing that as a person ages - does this mean that they are not entitled / allowed to have some intimacy / fun, etc.? If not a relationship in a facility.
Perhaps the issue is one of staff / administrator
- OBSERVING this behavior more closer;
- talking to females residents about it
- as well talk to female residents' family member(s) and see how they feel about it.
It seems like the facility management needs to take more of an active role in many ways. At the very least, I would bring up your concerns with the administrator.
You will also need to consider that if you dad causes any problems in this area that he may be asked to leave. You want to deal with this before it may get to that point, or have another resident's family file a complaint.
Gena / Touch Matters
maybe speak to the residents and ask if they mind his attention
they might be pleased with having a make friend
or a direct conversation with your father to address your concerns that he may inadvertently cause someone upset with his flirting and if just one person complains they will put a ruling down .
bring it out into the open to discuss and monitor openly!
I agree - if her father is of sound mind and able to understand how his behavior / advances are possibly / potentially taken, he might be willing and able to manage / adjust his flirtations. My concern is if it goes way belong that and a person cannot set their boundaries due to both feeling alone and having dementia. He may feel or say 'it was consensual' like a lot of men do who are not in a facility. . . Gena
I feel like you’re being warned here, and all it would take was for a family to complain, and they might ask your Dad to leave on short notice.
I’d figure out a way to make this stop, if I were his Dad.
Again, no consent? Assault.
I don't want him to be removed from his placement. My mother went through a lot to find him his current placement.
The facility overall is entirely MC so no one is free to leave the grounds without someone accompanying them.
It is hard to explain never seen such a place like it. I did not visit him after mom placed him.
If there are complaints, your father may be made to leave, and a new placement may be difficult. Yes, that is a concern for you. You might want to consider medications at that point. Then HIS consent gets tricky.
My own personal issue is that D is only 68, and looks like any other ‘dirty old man’. My own unpleasant F told me about his escapades in respite care (unjustified) with a dementia patient who couldn’t remember anything about it next morning (ha ha). By that time her family had removed her, he had moved on, I was disgusted. But that is not your own situation, I hope. Yours, Margaret
I was shocked when they told me that they knew. I get it is a weird area cause everyone seems happy enough and here I come getting concerned and to be frank grossed out.
I get my old man looks good for his age, and still carries himself with that certain element I cannot explain. Always we'll groomed and dressed. I get he may not know what is going on but a part of me thinks indirectly he is taking advantage of these women's memories of their loved ones.
Idk my dad was a good father horrible husband so I have a complicated history with him.
I will reach out to his doctors in the morning. I hope they listen but i am afraid they will brush it aside cause no one has complained.
A woman with dementia who lives in a nursing home cannot consent to sex. Same as a drunk woman. Same as a child. Etc.
Frankly, to me that is grounds to get the whole darn place shut down.
The entire ground is a locked down but he is still free to walk around, he is free to go to the common areas, walk around the campus.
They do have a locked down floor but that is more so meant for end stage dementia.
It is a fairly expensive placement.
As for my fears yes I am afraid of someone making a complaint or claim of assault.
For now nothing is broke so I wouldn't try to fix anything. Just leave it alone and deal with the situation when and if his behaviour becomes a problem for the facility.
I am caring for my father, living in assisted living with alzheimer's / dementia.
Combine that with her saying he's living in "AL MC" a couple times and I think it's clear dad's in Memory Care Assisted Living. Until she clears it up, I'm going with that.
What do you mean "relationships" OP? Dad is having sexual relations with other residents in Memory Care in their rooms? If that's the case, consent cannot be given when dementia is at play. I am surprised the admin is ok with this, frankly. I feel like this WILL come back to bite you one day. One of these women will tell their loved ones she has a boyfriend or a lover and all hell will break loose.
I would not have been happy had I found out such a thing when my mother lived in Memory Care Assisted Living. Then again, she was loud and vocal and would have screamed bloody murder had a man even entered her personal air space, let alone anything else.
The other way to look at it is two adults enjoying themselves. But w/o the ability to give consent, THAT is where the potential problem lies. Your father would be better off keeping his pants zipped up, and would've been his whole life, huh?
I don't exactly like it, but on the same token what exactly can I
do? Not like talking to him will help. He does not even recognize me.
I don't see a problem here.
I think your father has had enough losses for a lifetime if at the young age of 68 he is already in care. I would let him be unless there is a problem. Your mom is gone and cannot be hurt by this behavior now.
It is, you should understand, exceptionally common, and somewhat a comfort to my mind that special loving friendships and flirtations consider in care forever in many circumstances. Often visiting husbands of wives have to accept the new love as the one the person with dementia believes is their spouse. It takes courage, but the person is no longer the person they were known to be throughout a lifetime. As Oliver Sacks says "They have a whole entire world; it just isn't YOUR world".
This is all just my opinion and you may see it differently, but I am not certain you can DO much about that, after all?
I would send a note to inform his doctor that he should be tested for STD's the next time he is in for any reason. (easy to send a note if you have access to his medical Portal)
I see no need to bring up the conversation with your dad.
If there are complaints though be prepared to have this conversation. There are some family members of other residents that might not look on this so calmly.
There is no way that she could give consent.
I would be quite upset if she were assaulted this way.
No consent = Assault
The MC MUST redirect him.