How do I get myself uninvolved with manipulative elderly parent without feeling guilty?

OLD POST from August heads up

This sounds familiar. My dad is in a care facility and has often tried to find ways to leave. I think he is back to trying to plan an escape now. My advice to you is to stick to what you need to do. It is hard to care for a person who does not respect your space or who lashes out often ( my dad did this today with me).

Tell the hospital, and him, that he cannot return to your home and there is no one to care for him at his house. The whole story about a "friend" is merely a fabrication. Whatever his choices, you are not involved.

figuringitout13: Prayers forthcoming. Set and adhere to boundaries.

Stepping back is NOT being neglectful to his needs!

You are not responsible for providing for his needs. He is a grown man, and appears capable of making his own decisions, however detrimental they may be. Allow him to make his own life decisions, and give yourself some space by not answering his every phone call. Let them go to voicemail and call him when you are ready.

When he complains to you of having no one to help him, remind him that you will help him by insisting he stay in rehab - which may turn in to a long term stay. It is his choice to stay home with no help. You can not change a stubborn person's mind. Let him make his own bad choices, and when he wants your help, lay out your plan for him. He has the right to accept or refuse the help you offer. And you have the right to refuse to support his harmful decisions.

I wouldn't neglect my dad. I couldn't neglect my mom even though she was manipulative. We don't know what's in store for us in our future. Go with your heart. Obviously you are debating the caregiver issue for a reason. Find help for your dad. You aren't expected to do it all yourself.

I think that you need to see a good cognitive therapist soon as you can.
You cannot fix this and your father's poor choices, partially enabled by your care of him, may well kill him. This infection can go septic at any time, and death would follow quickly given his MRSA status.
Speak with doctors and social workers and let them know you are stepping out of this, as your father's unrealistic dependence on others could kill him; let them know that there is no friend who will be giving him antibiotics and that his discharging himself would be an unsafe discharge by someone who clearly doesn't understand the risks.

You didn't cause any of this. Guilt requires causation.
You can't fix this. Guilt requires you COULD fix something but REFUSE to do so out of evil intent.
So guilt is off the table. But your worry about these silly things is allowing you to allow your father to use you to lean on when you ARE NOT QUALIFIED to care for him and when this choice MAY KILL HIM.

You must get the strength to move out of this situation, tell your father he needs this care or he may die. Get back to your own life. Understand that allowing your father to manipulate you now may kill him, and THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING TO BE GUILTY ABOUT, for sure.

STEP AWAY. DO IT AT ONCE. Let father know he knows the number to 9-1-1. Tell him to call it when he has needs.

Watch some mel robbins videos about the "let them" theory. Let your dad do what he wants...even if it's dumb. Let yourself rest, reflect and decide how to react. My advice is to not react. This is the path hes chosen.

OOk. He sounds like my mother so just let him figure it out! I would back off! He thinks he can do this will let him think that he can by "doing it". Sometimes we just have to learn the hard way even when we're in our 80s and 90s or whatever!!! Your priority is your own family right now which includes your well-being.

So sorry you are dealing with this. Yes, lots of parents with self absorption/narcissist personality traits use "guilt trips" to manipulate their adult kids to do "their bidding" even if it is NOT in their or your interest. Hope you can work on NOT feeling guilty, as you did nothing wrong here! When doing what we do is "NOT good enough" the emotionally immature parent tries to weaponize guilt to get you back in line to do what "THEY WANT". It is hard to break this, as most likely you were trained to fall for this manipulation from childhood. So sorry, I had a similar experience with my mother.

There is no amount of explaining as that is logic brain trying to deal with an emotionally immature adult. A bit like trying to talk a 2-year-old out of wanting candy for dinner -- that would be a no win argument. Get it.

So the best you can do is:

1) tell the hospital social worker YOU are not in charge and that THEY have to arrange a safe discharge, it is THEIR responsibility NOT YOURS to coordinate with said nursing friend! That is step out of it entirely.

2) for your mental health, block his phone number (he can still leave messages) and you can listen when you have time and can handle it emotionally. Just tell him, "I am having a phone problem, call and leave a message but you will not likely hear a prompt like "leave a message after the beep." He does not need to know you blocked him. The hospital will call you if there is a real emergency; ditto for rehab which is where he should be period and for 6-8 weeks. I assume he has Medicare, they will pay for it.

3) Pick a day/time to call and stick to a routine that works for YOU of when to make contact.

4) If you can, tell the social worker at the hospital that the rehab facility he should go to is both Medicare and Medicaid qualified, if the later is needed. Once there, talk with the social workers there to be explicit that YOU are NOT responsible to work out a safe discharge for him post rehab; that is ON THEM. DO NOT SIGN any paperwork that you agree to do this, OR to pay for his care!!! There are trick things in the paperwork that often trap adult kids into things they did not understand, much less agree to.

5) If he refuses to go to rehab and returns home, that is on him. If the "nurse friend" cannot do this, again that is on him. If there are issues, call adult protective services (911) and they will return him to the hospital.

This is really tough, but YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HIM. You already have one toddler, another on the way. He cannot be your third child, which is how he is acting. This is the time for you to set clear boundaries no matter how much he pitches a fit. Just say, "It is NOT feasible" for you to step in here and give NO further explanation.

Hugs. No one prepares us for this crazy journey. Good luck!

Your priority is your health and well being, raising your toddler and getting ready for a new baby. You have your hands full. Your father should go to a SNF to recuperate and get some rehab. Hopefully he sees the sense in doing this. It is in his best interest to do this for himself.

Perhaps your partner should set your father straight that you are unavailable to help him at this time.

Don't get involved in arguments with your father. You both need to find a loving sustainable long-term arrangement that works for both of you. This is the time when he will need you because he is becoming unable to care for himself. Sadly, his health may decline further and he may need more care in the future. But you do not have to be the caregiver. You just have to be the one to oversee that he is in a safe place and cared for. You must have an honest talk with your father to tell him what you are capable of doing. Please throw out those guilt feelings. You are doing your best, but you have responsibilities and a growing family of your own. When my father passed away, leaving my mother alone in a rural house 5-6 hours drive from our house, that was unreachable by public transportation, I told her that we would only be able to visit a couple of times a year if she stayed there. I was working full time then. I researched continuing care senior residences within a 1.5 hour travel range from our house and accessible by public transportation. Continuing care residences have independent living, assisted living, memory care and skilled nursing/rehab facilities, but can't handle hospitalization. They also take full responsibility for the resident and notified me when it was time for my mother to move from independent living to memory care and then finally to skilled nursing/hospice. We took my mother to see the residence that I thought was the best match and she agreed to move there. She was able to sell her house, I helped her downsize, but she did most of it. The broker also helped to dispose of stuff to make the house more salable. The downside of moving to a residence near you will be that he'll be far from his friends, but the upside will be that he'll be close to you and you will be more able to help him. Senior residences have skilled staff and they do housekeeping, meals, laundry services, activities, and there are other people his own age there. Some seniors want to age in their own homes, but then he will need in-home care, perhaps even 24/7 aides. This happened with my aunt, who also lived far from me. I had to help her find caregivers and helped to manage and pay them. Much depends on his finances. Make sure all of his paperwork is in order. He needs to have a will, a living will with his advance medical directives, and he needs to set up Power of Attorney (POA) for medical (health care proxy) and financial matters (durable power of attorney). Most financial institutions (banks, credit cards, Medicare/Social Security...) have their own POA forms. I'm assuming you'll be his POA. He may need an attorney for this. POA is needed when a person is not able to make their own decisions (which could happen if he becomes seriously ill). But you have to know his wishes and to do your best to help him live accordingly (but no guilt, please). Talk to your father about making you secondary owner on his accounts, and try to get a credit card on his account with your name on it so that you can purchase things for him on his behalf. All of this makes things much easier when you have to be POA, if that happens down the line. All the best and a big hug to you and your family, including your father. None of this is easy.

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/im-a-younger-only-daughter-with-an-elderly-dad-2-hours-away-what-do-i-even-do-492516.htm

Reread your last post. You received some good replies. You leave 2 hrs away, you can no longer be there for him. Your child must be 2 or almost by now. Its going to be hard to care for a 2 yr old and an infant. You really can't be there for Dad. He needs to make changes. Maybe an Indepentent living where his meals are provided, activities and outtings. Maybe a nice AL where there is an RN on duty. Maybe a place closer to you but you will set boundaries and he has to live by them. Your family is #1.

You should not even be near him with MRSA

"Being pregnant can weaken the immune system, making it important to be cautious around someone with an active MRSA infection. MRSA is a type of staph bacteria resistant to certain antibiotics. Infections often appear as skin pustules or boils but can spread and cause serious or life-threatening complications. MRSA can spread through direct skin contact or indirectly via contaminated items like towels, razors, or bandages. 
If you are pregnant and around someone with MRSA, the CDC recommends taking precautions such as practicing good hand hygiene, covering wounds with clean, dry bandages, and washing laundry thoroughly with hot water and detergent. You should also avoid sharing personal items that might have touched an infected wound or bandage."

I would not take the chance of getting it. You have children to think about.

When your Dad told the doctor his friend was nurse and could do the IV, my first thought was "has she been asked". And I will bet the doctor did not ask that question. A pet peeve of mine. That when a patient says they have help at home the discharge nurse does not confirm it. I would be calling the hospital discharge that you will be doing no caring for Dad. That you are pregnant and are not risking your baby or family getting infected. I would think they can get "in home" care for Dad if he won't go to rehab. Thisvis a good excuse for you to now back off. You really need to tell him that you will soon have 2 children to care for. They are your priority. He is going to need to find help if he can't do it for himself. You cannot be at his beck and call. You can't have him calling you constantly. Time to set those boundaries and stick to them.

I am a Certified Nursing Assistant and Home Health Aide. I've seen plenty of stubborn old folks who are determined to do it their way.

You feeling guilty of being neglectful is what is called false guilt caused by someone else's manipulation.

Back off of this and let him make his poor choices. The hospital will set up home antibiotic infusions if he is refusing to return to the rehab. It may not be the hospital's first line of defense, but this is better than nothing.

You stay away from the MRSA. You don't need to be around pathogens during your pregnancy or bringing your toddler some unwanted infection.

Dad is telling you what he plans to do. Good. (Better than hiding his plans).
He told you he would rather stay home & have a nurse provide his treatment.

I am not going to get into the better or poorer outcomes, the risks etc. I will focus on *choice*.

Dad got the information.
Dad made an informed decision.
You don't agree. OK.
You are allowed to differ.
You can respect both of you are adults. Can make your own decisions.

Yes the pressure is real. Being the daughter, the next of kin. (I KNOW IT!) But is Dad is pleading or tricking you into being his nurse? Has he asked or attempted you moving in to provide his treatment? I didn't read that. I read he has made a decision & found a solution for himself..

Yes it is hard. But he can do this. He can also change his mind & if things don't go smoothly, go into hospital then.

Take some breathes. Let Dad apologise. Apologise also for any perceived attempts to boss him.
Find some common ground of respect. He won't be around forever either (& he knows it).
Good luck & enjoy your youngsters.

MRSA can be treated at home. Let him figure it out. You shouldn’t be around it anyway.

There is a book called What Happened To You. It is about childhood trauma. Get a copy and read about how the first few months and years of life are vitally important to the mental health of each of us. You are doing your children no favor to be involved in your father’s care.

There are many people who can care for your father. You are the only mother for your children.

Why feel guilt? Your father told you to back off so back off. Let his calls go directly to vm and his texts go unread. Hes obviously not suffering from dementia if hes able to text and make his own bad decisions, hes suffering from terminal stubbornness. Even after getting MRSA and having a 2nd surgery! Tell him to be sure and put 911 on speed dial because you'll be busy Backing Off now.

This isn’t about you being neglectful, rather you prioritizing your own family and needs. He’s got solid options for rehab, he just doesn’t like them. No matter what hoops you jump through you’ll never fix the issues of aging, especially with an uncooperative parent. Decide to only do what’s reasonable for you, what fits your life and schedule, make no apologies for it. Care for your child and yourself. Limit the time you listen to the griping. I wish you peace and a healthy pregnancy

It is not about what he wants but what he needs. However, until he sees this, he is free to make his own decisions, even bad one. If he doesn't want to go to rehab, let him make all the arrangements for his care at home. DO NOT get involved. Do not offer any help. In fact take that week break from all of this. Don't return any phone calls until the week is up. By that time a decision on where he is going will have been made and you will not have had any involvement.

Next time he calls you for help, give him these resources:

Care.com

Social services for his county

His local Area Agency on Aging

Local Senior Center

Call 2-1-1

Call 911

Please stop enabling him, entertaining his nonsense and cluelessness, etc. You should not feel guilty since you've done nothing wrong. You can feel grief for this situation, but not guilt. He is grown man who had his entire life to improve himself and figure out a plan that didn't include abusing your soft nature. TIme to toughen up, since you need all your energies for your children. Your Dad is not a child, although he acts like one and wishes to be babied like one. Just no.