How to deal with my Mom. Any advice?

What makes dealing with these parents so tough is that we weren't taught how to be assertive. We were discouraged from challenging them on anything. I grew up fearful of any confrontation, that some how conflict or disagreement was wrong and to be avoided. So it's doubly tough for us to learn how to be assertive (and that it's perfectly acceptable) and to be assertive with the one person who most had us under their thumb.

No matter how far you think you need to go in this journey to healthy and functional, please remind yourself every day how far you've come.

YOU are an awesome person for feeling that even though she neglected you in so many ways, YOU are remaining true to her. That right there is AWESOME! When you feel sure you can no longer do it, you must release yourself from the feelings of obligation for your own sanity.

Sorry hit the button. It was the next post that tied into yours which said something about blowing up and my comment was I think appropriate. You described a situation where you had considerable guidance. Everyone has their own way of dealing with things.

It was the next post.

Clrsky58, I don't understand how you derived at yelling or worse from my post. You quoted one phrase completey out of context. That said, Rkello, you can put the old bat in her place firmly and calmly. It's called being assertive. You can learn to be assertive without being aggressive. It's like disagreeing without being disagreeable. These are all communication skills that children of emotionally abusive parents often need especially if they become their caregivers. Good luck!!!

Rkello, your post really resonated with the experiences I have had and am having with my parent. I wish to offer counter to a few posts in here as a way of coping. I do agree with most of what NYDaughterinlaw said, but I think if someone is going to "put the old bat in their place", and use tactics like shouting or blowing up at them, then that person better really have a grip on themselves. I would compare it to another few posts I partly challenge: a valium or half a xanax to cope can turn into a stay at the rehab center unless someone really has a grip on using those kinds of things. Using shouting to stun someone into silence can turn into a habit that leads to a stay in prison. My take on "standing up" to my ragingly dysfunctional parent is different. I stand up to it by not allowing it to knock me off balance. I have had to apply this approach for years. I have noticed when she is having a tantrum and I do latch onto the argument...even if it is calmly...she gets a look of satisfaction like now I have him. I stand up to her by not grabbing onto it, letting her thrash all she wants. In the past I always found myself more drained when I joined the arguments. The situations are not pleasant. For example she will be shrieking loudly about how glad she is that my eldest sister is dead (who passed away not long ago and was the nicest person you could meet) or saying she was constipated one day and had me, and in the meantime I cannot wipe the spit she flung in my face because I have to keep both hands extended to keep her from striking me (and the police or APS wont help). That was a real situation, and I focused more on my own thought than her theatrics, and I just stared her back in the eye and refused to get hooked into the drama emotionally. That is just my take on standing up to someone...or when they demand this and that just staying silent or calmly saying no. This is something that has worked for me for years now. Not exactly fun, but it has worked and helps to keep me from feeling like I am worn out or am gonna blow up. People using meds or using yelling or whatever as a way to be in charge are walking a dangerous path and better stay heads up to what they are doing. Best wishes to you and all the other posters here.

Rkello, all moral dilemmas aside, this is my story (quick and dirty version) - before deciding to keep contact with my mother to the absolute minimum: nothing but complaints, negativity, criticism, insults, and insinuations that I should be doing ever more to feed her endless appetite for attention, praise, and sympathy. I was a miserable and nervous wreck.
After going to minimal contact - I'm able to manage her finances without her interference, as well as her healthcare, her home care arrangements, you name it. If she needs something, I see that she gets it. Is she happy? I'm sure not - she never was. This road was not something I envisioned, but it's the one that works. So, do what works for you, and be patient and kind to yourself as you figure it all out.

NY Daughter in law truer words never spoken abusive people react better to people that stand up to them and let it be known "I'm not going to tolerate this not for one minute stop it or leave it matters not to me" I have found this out purely by accident when I blew my top and the bully just sat there with their mouth open. STAND UP for yourself and your right to be respected.

I too am the child of an emotionally abusive mother. Something changed in her once I entered 8th grade. Before then, she was a kind loving mother. Afterward she was monstrous. When she died I felt sadness but also relief. I could not care for her because I was too young. Her expectations of me were unfair. There's nothing wrong with you. It's healthy to want to protect yourself against an abuser even when that person is your parent. You are worthy. You are deserving of love. You cannot control your mother but you can control yourself and your reactions to her. I too am going to search for abusive parent as a previous poster suggested. The pain and anguish children feel when they have been guilted into caring for an abusive parent pours out all over this forum. Guilt is a lethal emotion if not dealt with properly. You are not damaged despite the damage she did to you. Your feelings are normal and healthy. Be kind to yourself. Do meditations - Louise Hay got me through many tough times. Until your mother does something that gets APS to step in there is nothing you can do. You were not born to be your mother's whipping post. Go to a house of worship or psychiatrist and talk. Talk therapy is vital. In my opinion it's more helpful than a prescription unless you really do have a mental illness that requires meds. You are not evil. You are not abnormal. You are not a bad person for having these feelings that even children of the most amazing parents have. You are human. You are valuable. I now own my feelings about my mother. My psychiatrist helped me understand that what she did was because she likely had a mental illness. He helped me believe that I am worthy of love and kindness. He gave me permission to hate my abusive mother and be very angry about what she did to me when I was a child. He helped me put her in my past and be honest and not feel ashamed that my mother could do such emotional damage. He helped me by letting me talk and feel. Most importantly he helped me move forward. Luckily was in my early 20s when I found this amazing physician. But it's never, ever too late to deal with an abusive parent in a healthy way. Stay strong because your mother is trying to take your power. My mother died before I could let her know that she no longer had power over me. Take back your power and put the old bat in her place. She might just respect you for it. I've come to learn that abusive people or bullies feed on weakness but respect people who stand up to them. Good luck to you!!

Thoughtful & caring responses. That is what we all need while going through our own particular kind of hell. I liked your response, 50s child. Very insightful and I do not feel you owed the other individual an apology.

Thanks to all of you for your thoughtful, caring responses. I feel so relieved to know that I am not alone, and just to know there are people who understand what I am going through means the world to me. I a going to try to do what I can, where I can, while keeping my boundaries in place.

Deniece, I am sorry I lost it. How I admire the well-considered answers I always see here. I'm still trying and learning. You poured yourself into your answer too. I'm glad you did, we all need all points of view all the time, to help us find our own directions.

First of all, your Mum needs you to help her. Second of all, look after yourself. Don't allow your Mum to bully you, walk away. If she yells at you, go away for a few seconds. Then go back, talk calmly to her, and say 'Mum, you can't talk to me like that. i am here to help you'. If it doesn't register at the time, say it again later. Don't allow your Mums behaviour to get you down. If you need a breather, walk outside and look at something else, e.g. the garden. Your Mum needs help, but not at the expense of your health. Arlene Hutcheon

Those of us who have had an abusive mother are NOT selfish or morally deficient. Our innocent love was compromised time and time again. I suppose you could say that Jesus' love was compromised by God the "father" too, and look at the upright stance HE took dying by submitting his will to his "Dad." I have seen way too many people hurt way too deeply by the kind of psychological terror these morality stories impose on the helpless. Take a look at the works of Alice Miller, a brilliant psychotherapist who indicts Freudians for their 4th Commandment need to impose a "forgiveness" mold onto their patients. Miller would argue forgiveness and "getting over it" will further spiral the abused into deeper depression, mental illness, and repeating the cycle of abuse with one's own children and loved ones. Miller cites neuropsychological research that increasingly confirms that abuse, especially of children, changes the brain FOREVER, not "correctible." We are not taking a low road, nor a selfish road, by being unable to handle terror. Deniece, you definitely have not handled such terror or else you have sugar-coated the rage you carry inside -- and unfortunately you are punishing people here with your cruel indictments. I am glad you have found a temporary shelter with your mind's constructs, I once did the same and ALWAYS turned the other cheek. Til I got lymphoma. Miller goes so far to suggest that cancer is our inner rage being dealt with by our body's final wisdom saying, "I can't take this terror and deception any longer." Your unkind chastisement felt to me like the "gaslighting" that our mothers did to us. For example, over some small thing like not folding one's clothes correctly -- Mom attempts to burn the house down and puts us out on the street and goes into a tantrum and disappears for four days and comes back with threats that we will be shipped to China. Now you are asking me to willfully "get positive" with someone who did this to a four-year-old child? Are you crazy? Any psychologist will tell you that no matter how adult and reasoned we become as we age, the sum-total of ourselves includes the child that we were. I take care from afar (almost a full-time job actually), and Rkello has my support. She has done everything she can do, and deserves peace in her life. She has stood up for her mother and made many sacrifices and outreachings to her. She should not be belittled nor made confused. Her soul is suffering and needs to be encouraged to reach for her truths, which takes a lot of bravery and faith during some very dark times. Rkello, I can only repeat what everyone else but Deniece has said so eloquently, you have done everything you can. You will read all these suggestions, and some of then will free you. I am so sorry for your pain, and know that you are not alone.

Thank you for that, blannie...well said.

Boy Deniece444 you certainly got yourself worked up because other posters didn't agree with you. I don't think the other posters, who used very balanced language, come off as spoiled, selfish brats. I think they're caring, thoughtful people who have a different view than you do.

Not everyone chooses to "grow" in the way you deem they should. Maybe they'll grow in other areas of their lives. Or maybe they don't learn to rise above and forgive at all. Or maybe they forgive, but choose to keep their distance for their own mental health. I can't judge them (unlike you) because I didn't grow up with an abusive mother. I wouldn't presume to know what each of them should do with 100% certainty like you. And I don't get upset and lash out with invectives when other people respectfully disagree with my point of view. I listen and learn from others. There's a lot of wisdom borne of experience on these boards. Not everyone has to agree with your viewpoint to make your viewpoint valid or their viewpoint invalid.

Apparently, some of you don't have the emotional maturity to understand what I wrote, in which case, better you should keep your conclusions to yourself. My advice is based on very hard experience, has nothing to do with guilt, and everything to do with helping the OP learn and grow from a devastating and negative experience which will only damage her if she doesn't do the work necessary to find a positive in the negative. And that positive is working through the negativity of her relationship and healing it; she doesn't need the other's cooperation to do that. That's acting like an adult, not some selfish, spoiled-brat, which is how so many of you come off. Don't you get it, how your mother or whoever else reacts to how you treat them DOESN'T MATTER. It's what you do that matters, how you react. I'm caring for the caregiver as I have cared for myself in a very similar situation. The rest of you are resentful and defensive, and rationalizing a situation until you turn blue and finding ways to evade responsibility to someone,(not an abdication of your life, but an assumption of responsibility), because that someone never assumed that responsibility for you; it makes you the neglected and abused five year old you once were forever. If you can live with that, fine. It's amazing these days how many people think, in so many contexts, that sparing themselves any kind of discomfort or trial should be the mainstay of their existence. Like that old saying, the way they pulled her out of her mama, that's how they're nailing her down in her coffin.

Advise the neighbors to contact APS with their concerns. Let them know that your mother is not willing to accept your help. Let them know she is diagnosed with bipolar disorder along with the aging issues. They can advise APS or the local crisis line of this to get the appropriate help to your mother. Do not hurt yourself trying to do something for someone who does not want it. You already paid your dues with your mom. I suspect she was a single mom because of her behavior toward your father, her husband. She has had time to make changes and has not. This is her choice. Her continued problems may get her in such a circumstance that authorities can act in her behalf.

palmtrees1, I couldn't agree more that it's well and good to talk about "doing unto others" but you are right that that attitude does not at all take reality into account. Not everyone is cut out to be a caregiver, even for a loved one [let alone someone they can't stand to be in the same room with]; "forgiveness" is also all well and good but you can forgive someone without becoming their primary caregiver and developing all the emotional and physical problems that goes along with it and which accounts for many caregivers dying before their charges do. There's no sense in guilt-ing people over this.

You sound pretty strong and I know you are fighting guilt because that is what you have learned. I have very mixed feeling when I hear someone talk about turning the other cheek, or honoring thy mother and father, or doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. These are good things to consider but not always realistic in practice. I think you know what is right for you and I hope you don't let anyone else make you feel guilty. I am dealing with some of that myself but I know if I treated my mother like a queen, she would just cut off my head! Use common sense which you seem to have plenty of. Take care of yourself.

Rkello, I was in the same situation as you. My mother grew up in and out of foster homes and had a very awful childhood. She never wanted to bother with my children or cared about anything that was going on in my life. She was verbally abusive and hurtful. She married an abusive alcoholic and moved out of state to be close with my sister, who was her favorite child. She developed Alzheimer's disease and her husband and my sister did not want to help her. My sister was single with no children and lived 10 minutes from my mom. My sister was dating a millionaire and did not work at all. I quit my full time job and had three children in college at the time. I did it out of guilt but was very resentful of my mother when she first moved in. The situation created a lot of tension with my husband. He never even met my mother until she moved in. She was mean to me but I learned to ignore most of it. I took very good care of her for almost 3 years. I ended up going back to work at night because I needed the income. I was constantly exhausted and felt sorry for myself that I ended up in this position. My sister never even called to see how my mom was or helped at all with anything. My mother was in the later stages at this point and needed to be placed in a nursing home. She was 5 minutes from me and I visited her almost everyday to make sure she was ok. My anger and resentment slowly turned into forgiveness. Her life was miserable and I felt sorry for that. She did take care of me when I was a child and she was my mother. My mother passed away a month ago, she was only 70 years old. I am truly at peace that I did what was right and I took care of her. My sister is not handling her passing very well. She has to live with that guilt for the rest of her life. It was a nightmare to deal with my mother for those years. I didn't think I would make it. I almost divorced over it, but looking back, I would never change it. If she has anyone that can help her, reach out to them. If not, maybe you could place her in a nursing home that is close to where you live. This will give you peace knowing she is safe and not alone and you could visit her. My mother was in the intermediate stages of Alzheimer's when she moved in but my guilt would not let me place her in a nursing home. I hope this helps and I will continue to pray for you.

I am in a similar situation with my Mom. I made the decision years ago that I would never be able to bring her into my home to care for her. I live 5 hours away, have POA, trustee for parents trust, and manage health care and financial stuff. Dad has been placed in Memory Care for almost two years, with mom home alone and in early Alzheimer's diagnosed. She is a pistol, who refuses meds, is in denial about her condition, refuses help in the home and thinks the answer to everything is that 'family' should help her....only 'family'! Well I am the only child left. We have two daughters...one lives in WA state....3 days away, homeschools 6 kids and has turned off her Nana by being too honest about Nana's manipulations. This daughter is a retired RN like myself. Our other daughter, since Aug, lives in Phoenix....only 2 hours away and is now trying to help me cope with all this. Kinder and gentler she is, with an Master's in Counseling....but gets equally over whelmed being with her 'Nana'. It is now to the point where I or Phx daughter must travel down to Tucson about every two weeks for 4-5 days to keep up with everything and we are running out of steam. I've put in an alarm system with cameras and panic necklace etc. Keys locked in key keeper on her door and contacted 3 neighbors who know her well, and told them the situation; given them my contact info and the code to get into the key lock box so they could get into her house. What I suggest is you do something similar and get the neighbors involved in watching out for her. You may have to TELL them, that they have permission to call the police for a welfare check or to call APS when they think she is not OK. Many are fearful of getting involved if there is known family....fearing family may sue them or such. So you need to let neighbors know you NEED their help on this. Also, it helps if you get the POA and Health Care proxy so you can decide how to spend her money and can communicate with her doctors and others to get her the help she needs. You have no way to 'make things happen' without that. If she won't give you this authority, then you may need to tell her you ' cannot help her' without that done because, really, from a legal perspective, your hands are tied from helping her. I had to tell my Dad he needed help in the home and he did not want it. Mom was unable to care for him with his worsening dementia because life was all about her. He had catered to her through out their marriage and she didn't even know how to write a check! He wanted no helpers coming into their home. But he had known about his dementia and therefore had signed off on all the legal paperwork. I was able to immediately start paying bills when he could not manage, and when he refused help in the home, needed to tell him that we 'had to try it for 30 days'. The argument I used, based on lawyer's recommendation, was the fact that police and APS had been called a couple times, when they were fighting and yelling in summer with doors and windows opened. I explained that if WE had our own caseworker, home health person coming, then APS would not be able to make their own decisions about things if called too much. He went for that. After a 30d day trial, he was happy with helper coming, but Mom never was. She was jealous. So now Dad's placed, and Mom refuses any thought of a helper, but at least, I have authority and will say to her that if she wants to stay home, she must agree to helper. She is on edge of not being able to drive now too....and weaker with her health issues....so the day is coming. But without the POA I could not make this happen and could not use her funds to pay for anything either. We cannot afford to pay for her care...so glad Dad took care of this ahead of time. You must get with an elder care attorney to arrange this part. If Mom won't agree, then you cannot really 'help' her until she's in further trouble and you can have her declared incompetent. You need health care proxy to talk with her doctors. You will need their help to declare her incompetent as it takes two doctors to write a letter. So wherever and however she needs help, you have to keep saying you cannot help without that authority and then step away and let her 'sink' until she either sinks or agrees. THEN...my last advice...do NOT ever agree to take her in your home! Your will have 24/7 toxicity in your life. You help from afar, by getting her what she needs, either in her home as long as possible, or you get her into AL or a group home etc. There are lots of choices...but without you having the POA, you can do nothing without paying out of your own pocket. Do not give up your sanity, health, finances or life for her. And stop with the guilt. It took me a LONG time and much counseling from others to understand that my job is to keep my parents safe. I am NOT responsible for their happiness or to do things the way they want if those things are not in their best interest or good for ME, my husband and our family. I do a lot of praying when I have to go be with her...and, YES...sometimes I have to take a Xanex too! Now that daughter is in Phx, we can go together and then, support each other in dealing with Mom and getting things done. That makes it much easier too. This is NOT fun!

As an adult, you have a responsibility to make decisions that will positively impact your life. Your mother is and has always been toxic to you. The biology of her being your mother is just that. Since APS has seen her, given her their blessings, ask the neighbors to call 911 when or if she needs help. You live in a different state and cannot help anymore. Distance yourself dear one or you will be the one who needs more help than her. Don't let anyone cause you this much pain. Your health is my primary concern. She can fend for herself. If that sounds cruel, I am hearing you say she was abusive most of your life. Don't you deserve a life free of abuse? Stop the guilty thoughts, and you will free your mind of any emotional illness. Get yourself healthy, let her live her life without you. Best wishes.

I just joined this group because I had read your question to the group, and feel so much like you do. I feel for you. It is mentally draining to deal with a mom like that. I don't like taking meds, but I have found that taking a 1/2 of a Xanex before visiting my mom, can help a bit. Also doing something physical outside after visiting her can help, like taking a walk. I find that the fresh air and sun can ease the tension a bit after talking to her or visiting her. I can guiltily say that I do not like my mom either. But as someone else had said, we did not ask to be born, that was our moms choice. Just do the best you can do and if you can find someone to step in to help her, so you do not have to, that might be the best choice. Good luck !

I am coming out of the tunnel of a situation just like this, and I offer my two cents to you. The issue here isn't what kind of person your mother was/is -- it's the kind of person you are. I don't want to alienate the world by quoting scripture, but the idea is to do unto others AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM do unto you -- not as they have done unto you. The way your mother acts shouldn't have any bearing on what you do in any context, or preclude you doing the right thing for her. This is a growth opportunity for you, you can work through this before she dies by accepting responsibility here and not shying away from contact. You are still responding to her as the bruised child -- are you still that person? There's one challenge for you. I don't want you helping her because you feel guilty or you are forcing yourself...you need to come around, to grow to a level of maturity where you can handle her and your reactions to what she does. You don't have to give her Mother's Day cards with bunnies on them, but you do need to work toward forgiving her, which doesn't mean letting her off the hook, if you will, but that you have achieved closure and you are letting her go (leaving her to God...) But when she's dead, who do you want to see looking back at you in the mirror, the mature, intelligent, decent woman who did the right thing for someone who never did the right thing for her, or a cowering child who just dissolved in a puddle of anger, spite , whining and Ativan? Don't try for her approval anymore, that's ridiculous, you're not going to get it, but do tell her when you reach the point where you mean it, that you have forgiven her -- quietly, gently and only once, even if she comes back at you with fire. Have the police commit her to an adult behavior modification program, while you get yourself an elder care lawyer and get working on POAs and guardianship. She can't manage this at arms'-length; get in there as an adult, get your hands dirty, and do for her what she never did for you.

Rkello I know exactly how you feel except my mom lives with me and her behavior at time is surprising the things she says to me. She was also a single parent raising me. She had been in an abusive marriage and her childhood was also abusive. She does not like to be hugged or kissed so I have given up. We are not bad daughters. Instead of arguing with her like I used to I just dont say anything, believe me it is hard but she lives with me and my family so I have no choice but to accept her as she is. Sometimes I get depressed because I agreed with my husband to have her live with us and I regret that decision but there is nothing I can do now. Try and stay strong because it can drain you. Good luck!

I understand, completely. I am guilt ridden, too, from the treatment I've gotten from my mother all my life. She came to live with me in 2008. All the old guilt, manipulation and control descended upon me like a dark cloud. I had somewhat gotten away from it for several years and had made giant strides, but her moving back with me put me in a tailspin downward into a pit of sickening guilt, loathing and oppression. Mom is a narcissist and probably has an undiagnosed mental illness. You can't be nice enough, do enough, care enough for a person like her. I recently had her admitted into geriatric psych where they got her meds straightened out so that that she wasn't falling, completely out of it, etc. Then I got her into a rehab with the intentions of getting her into AL or memory care. At the end of rehab when the AL nurse was supposed to come and evaluate her, my sister decided she wanted her to "get to come home for a while". I told her I was done taking care of her in my home. My sister has had her for several months, now, and I've made it clear that I will not take her into my home. She is safe at my sister's, unhappy as she always is, and I've moved 1000 miles away to be close to MY kids. I have a tinge of guilt still, but it's getting a little less. We drove 1000 miles to see her last week, and she tried to manipulate the situation by pretending to be sick. We weren't paying enough attention to her, so she staged a "poor me" pity party and went to bed. This was when the real lessening of guilt started. After driving a 1000 miles, she goes to bed after begging to see me every time I talked to her over the last two months since I've seen her last. We were with her for 6 hours and though asking her to stay up because we were going back home, she pitifully shuffled off to bed and when I asked her where she was going she says, "I don't know" with snotty attitude. I refused to follow her like I used to. That was our goodbye. Very sad, but liberating. I feel sorry for my sister, though. I'm 65 and I need a life. My sister chose to take her home with her and she is going to have to figure out what to do. I had a plan. It was undone.

As I've said before, being a caregiver for someone you love is difficult enough. Being a caregiver -- even long distance -- for someone you don't love and don't even wish to be around and who causes anxiety and health issues doesn't make sense. It sounds as if you've done everything you could. Don't feel guilt -- and don't ever take her into your home. If your mother gets worse there are steps you and APS can take, but for now relax. Good luck.

. Help her from a far. She will be ok. Take care of your self been through the same thing.

I am not in your situation but I feel compelled to give you a big virtual hug. Despite your childhood, you are obviously a wonderfully caring woman. You should feel no shame or guilt for your feelings about your mom. They're just feelings - we don't control them.

Emjo has wonderful advice - she's lived your life and has come to a good place with managing her own health and well-being, while still helping her mom from a distance. She's a good person to follow on here. Good luck and HUGS to you!!