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My 93-year-old mom has been independent all her life but over the past 18 months has become increasingly frail and debilitated. She has congestive heart failure and has fallen multiple times and broken various bones. My brother and I, who do not live near her, have done all we can to honor her wish to stay with partial home health services – the most she would accept, and as unreasonable as we thought it was. I have been to visit her many times to help with her care. But it has all become increasingly unsustainable and we receive multiple calls throughout the day and night where she lets us know how sick she is, even as she refuses additional services. Until today she has not wanted to go to the hospital, but increasing shortness of breath and rapid heart rate changed her mind. She is now at the hospital and we are waiting to hear what the plan of care will be. I don’t expect that the hospital will support her being discharged home, and for the first time, I won’t take on the responsibility of bringing her to her home and setting her up. She is very strong willed and focused only on herself and what she wants, but it’s not safe and I’m not comfortable with it. When I was in to see her a couple of weeks ago, she told me she would disown me if I put her in assisted living. I’m okay with that. But I wonder if there are ways that I can speak to her with kindness and compassion about living options other than her home. And if she’s deemed competent to make her own bad decisions – which she cannot carry out without our help – how do I pull back and still try to be a caring daughter?

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The hospital will not discharge at night. I assume either you or your brother are medical decision maker if your mom were to lack capacity.
The hospital will want to have you meet with a discharge planner u less your Mom tells them not to speak to you. Ask to see the social worker. Make sure they understand about the issues with broken bones and falls. Have your Mom also assessed for mobility by discharge nurse.
Falls and injuries do not admit someone to care. And the hospital can only make recommendations if your Mom has capacity. You need to meet with your mom and the social worker. Tell your mother you are her daughter but that you are not her caregiver. You do not have the energy to manage two households at your age. You love her but if she wants to be at home with her increased needs she will need to wear a lifeline at all times. And she will need a home care helper in the day and for her needs such as meals. Hospital should make arrangements with a pharmacy to have meds delivered. She will need to pay for that. Reassure her that she is important. That you would really appreciate her in a safer environment so you can spend quality time. Do not go there to do errands or housework. Order her groceries online. Deliver them. Get her a housekeeper. Explain things to support her in her wishes. I have had to do all the above. I wanted to be involved but the accusations were too much and embarrassing. It gets easier. They will never understand. Decide what you want to do and make arrangements for the rest. Do not rescue. Social work will help you. This is very common. Very.
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Reply to Rose33
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Beedevil66 28 min ago
Your first sentence, not all hospitals. Hospital I was at discharged an Alzheimer's patient when his caregiver kept making excuses to not pick him up.

She must have forgot or not realized, this hospital can arrange rides for discharged patients, which they did on this case
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Explain to Mom that AL is not the prison she thinks it is. Many elders have horrible visions of prisons, asylums, and similar 1940s stuff. That's where all these 90 year old people are so scared they will end up in some horrible place.

Al means your own apartment, no more cooking, cleaning and laundry. That the modern AL is not some horrible asylum and she still keeps her own space. Yet if she needs help, she rings a bell. She can go to meals, or fix herself snacks in her room.

Tell her you aren't setting her up anymore. Her care needs are not sustainable anymore. Tell her feel free to disown you all she wants. That's not a real threat anyway.
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Reply to Dawn88
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Mom,
While you are this ill, you must consult the doctor in charge of your care.
We can ask him tomorrow.
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Reply to Sendhelp
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Much depends on her finances. Home aides have various skill levels from registered nurse to someone who has learned on the job. If she has sufficient financial resources, you could hire 3 shifts of registered nurses to be with her. They might be able to do light cooking and housekeeping, but you may need additional staff to do the heavy housework and shopping. If you hire aides through an agency, they'll take care of the unemployment insurance and payroll taxes. Your mother may need extra home insurance to cover liability if someone injures themself in her home. If this is not feasible, be honest with her that she needs to be in a place that provides more care than she can get with home aides. Tell her that with your own responsibilties, you and your brother cannot be on call for her at all times. Try to get the social worker at the hospital to back you up with this plan. Then look for a place near you, so that you can visit often and oversee her care. Everything will go more smoothly if your mother has all of her paperwork in order. She needs to set up Powers of Attorney for financial matters (durable POA) and medical matters (health care proxy), in the case that she is not able to make decisions for herself. She needs to have a will and a living will with her advance medical directives. You may need an attorney for these legal papers. Get connected with your mother's state Department of Aging to find out what her options are. They may be able to connect you with a "navigator" who can help with the paperwork. Medicare/Social Security also need to have you (or whover the POA will be) on file as someone who can speak on your mother's behalf. This can be done with a phone call with your mother and you sitting together, or a conference call. Financial institutions and insurance companies also have their own POA forms. All the best to you and your mother. This is not an easy time.
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Rose33 21 hours ago
Registered Nurses do not provide this type of care. You need the right person for the job. A home care worker. 24 hrs is only necessary for them if they are wandering. Etc. RNs are not goi g to do your laundry or make meals. They are not there to bathe you. An agency can assist.
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What if you her the truth, very briefly and simply? “It’s no longer safe for you to live at home. You keep falling, can’t breathe, have terrible pain (etc).”

If she says she doesn’t care, you can say “the doctor is in charge of this decision now.”

If she says she will disown you, you can say “I’m sorry this makes you so angry. I am now 70 (or whatever) and I can’t provide the care you need. I love you and I will still call/visit you.”

I know how hard it is. Wishing you peace.
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Reply to Suzy23
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Rose33 21 hours ago
The doctor is not in charge of the decision. Once medically cleared the patient is in charge.
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As others have said, this is an opportunity for you to be honest with the social worker staff about what she (does not) have at home to help her and that she is an unsafe discharge and needs assistance you can't provide. This will make them find another place for her to be discharged, whether that be rehab or a place that can start as rehab and then move her to assisted living/nursing home.

Also agree that leaning on the "the doctors say". Throw them under the bus, shamelessly - it's not YOUR fault she can't get what she wants, it's her health + the doctor's orders. (And it's not your fault. It's not.) You can still be kind, you can still be caring...but that doesn't mean you need to give her what she wants, and it doesn't necessarily mean she'll be ok with the changes. She likely won't. But you will still have been as kind as you can be, and that will help YOU even if it doesn't help her in any way she can recognize.
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Rose33 21 hours ago
Doctors do not involve themselves with where patients go. Generally that is social work and discharge planning nurse. They medically clear a patient and they are done. A safe discharge is the goal. But they cannot force anything. People go home at risk every day. They have that right as long as they are competent. We need to stop rescuing.
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I agree with the others you need to be clear with the social worker at the hospital she has no safe home to go to and they need to recommend placement in a facility.
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Rose33 21 hours ago
They can recommend as you say and assist with advice. Generally if a patient can walk with a walker they can leave.
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Don't over explain. She won't listen and it won't change her mind.
You already know what you need to do. Talk with her doctor and have the doctor order her transition to assisted living, or skilled nursing facility.

If she is allowed to make her own bad decisions, you don't help to facilitate. You are still a caring daughter. The fact that you are discussing this and carefully considering your next step show how much you care. But, you can not reason with a stubborn elder. Let her know that you do not support her decision to try and live independently in her own home. Whatever help she needs, you will not be providing. When she calls to complain of how sick she is, keep the conversation brief. Tell her, "I'm sorry your feeling that way, Mom." Don't offer a solution, you don't have to fix it for her. She stubbornly thinks she can manage this. Let her. I'm sorry, it feels counterintuitive, but this is the only way she will see that she does indeed need more assistance, and that you and brother are not able to provide it. She may stubbornly refuse until the day she dies. Alone, in her home. You cannot prevent this no matter how much you care.
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Reply to CaringWifeAZ
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Meet with both the doctor and social worker overseeing her care in the hospital, discussing the unsafe discharge and need for transition to nursing home care. Ask that they break this news to mom. It’s always better when a professional is the bad guy rather than you. That gives you the “sorry, mom it’s doctor’s orders” reason to use. After that, no more discussion or arguing with her, just refuse to participate. It’s reasonable for her to be sad about this life change, it’s not reasonable for her to expect you to fix or change it. Wishing you both peace
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Reply to Daughterof1930
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I wouldn't waste my breath trying to explain something to your mother that is obvious to everyone except her. This will just be a never-ending circular argument that will leave both of you unhappy.

Instead, you can commiserate with her (because this is a very sad milestone in someone's life) and say things like "I wish you could be home too" and "You can go home when the doctor says it's ok", etc. Then change the subject to something more pleasant. Looking at old family pictures always makes my mom happy.

If she continues to harp on why she can't be at home, or other such complaining, don't reward bad behavior by letting her go on and on about it. Cut the visit short and say something like "It sounds like you're not up for a visit today, I'll come back another time when you're feeling better" and then leave.

You can do the same thing if it's a phone call. Also, as long as she is under some type of supervision, you don't need to answer every single time she calls.

It might be worth asking her doctor if a mild antidepressant would help her. A low dose of Lexapro did wonders for my mom.
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Reply to Dogwood63
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You tell those at the the hospital TODAY that your mom is now an "unsafe discharge" and that she can no longer live by herself at home and that you cannot care for her. You continue to say "unsafe discharge" until they agree to find the proper facility to place her in long term.
Then you can just use the excuse that she can't go back home until the doctors say she can, and of course they never will tell her that, but that way the blame is on the doctors and not you.
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Reply to funkygrandma59
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Rose33 21 hours ago
Legally the hospital must listen to the patient. No staff are going to bully a patient
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Kindly Inform your mother that she will have to go somewhere temporarily while 24-7 in home care is set up. Assuming that in home care requires a non English language, it will take a while to find people who can be with her.
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