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I just took my dad (age 84) with Alzheimers and vascular dementia to his cognitive appointment with the geriatrician (his PCP). he scored a 1 on his cognitive test, where last year he scored a 6. he was asked things like day, date, year, draw a box, clock, identify animals none of which he knew or could do. I reported that he has seemed to be having a hard time swallowing, coughing after water a bit, getting a bit "frozen" with water in mouth. Doctor said, this is the first thing they have trouble swallowing and might need to start thickening water. Will start to have a speech therapist to help with strengthening vocal cords - he speaks quietly at times. and a new PT and OT regimen. what shocked me at the appointment was that she said he probably has 1-2 years left. Now, I know it's coming, but to hear it from her was shocking. He was diagnosed around 6-7 years ago, but had signs about 8 years ago. She said he'd probably stop talking soon (already only uses a few words, 1-2 word answers) I've heard of people living a long time without talking, hardly eating, etc. Can she really be right about his time left?

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Serkey, I am in total agreement with the others who have suggested that hospice is probably the best thing you can do now. I had it for both my parents and they were like a godsend. Ask for an evaluation. Dad's PCP can ask for a hospice evaluation. I'm sure your dad will qualify.
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Reply to MTNester1
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Even before my mother got to the stage your father is at where he cannot swallow properly, I prayed daily for God to take her. This is no life to attempt to prolong the agony of, for any of these elders. There's no "keeping them busy" or bringing them joy at this stage of the disease. It's all about dad now, not mom. Mom needs help caring for dad and respite away from him to recharge her batteries. If she has faith, now is a good time to rely on it because death is a release from the misery of dementia for the patient and caregiving for the caregiver. I believe my mother is at perfect peace now and finally experiencing the joy and freedom that was denied her here on earth. I hope you and your family can embrace that belief for your beloved father. Seeing him like this every day is awful.

Please allow him to rest and be comfortable with help from hospice now. By the time swallowing becomes an issue with AD and dementia, it's time for hospice to step in. They will provide some help for mom also in the way of bathing and providing a hospital bed and free supplies, but not too much else. The chaplain is good to talk to about fear and distress.

I'msorry you're going through this and wish you good luck and Godspeed with a difficult situation.
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Reply to lealonnie1
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After reading all of your replies, I think it is your mom who needs additional support and help understanding his prognosis and accepting the path he is on. I’d recommend a therapist and perhaps antidepressants and definitely some respite from caring for your dad. Sometimes spouses basically freak out when they see their person slipping away and become desperate, trying and doing things that are no longer appropriate and cause more distress. They refuse to accept that he is getting worse and nothing can help stop their demise. At the very least SHE should be talking to other spouses of dementia sufferers to get some perspective.
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Reply to ShirleyDot
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My Dad was still talking fine, eating fine, fishing alone and driving himself (against our wishes) in 2000. He fell at home and had to have hip replacement surgery. He ended up with an infection that resulted in having the new hip removed. He started talking less and had trouble swallowing soon after. We placed him in skilled nursing and did a feeding tube. I'm glad we did the feeding tube against the doctor's wishes as dad wanted all measures taken to prolong life. Finally his intestines stopped working so the feeding tube did nothing. He passed away in 2003. One to two years sounds about right.
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Reply to JustAnon
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It is time to bring hospice in now. My husband is Stage 7 and he's had hospice care for over a year. It is helpful to have their expertise, and we're grateful for the 24/7 care; they are on call at all times and that's been helpful when things happened in the middle of the night.
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Reply to Fawnby
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I’m a big fan of the therapy. It makes them feel better and easier to care for longer w/o becoming bed bound. No one expects them to remember the exercises between sessions. Just to walk a path in the home can be beneficial. My loved ones who lived into their 90s benefitted from therapy. The one with dementia had it even after becoming bed bound and she was able to transition from bed to chair for her shower for a long time after becoming bed bound. She seemed to enjoy the therapy.

Seeing the therapist gives them more social interaction as well.

I think you probably have a good feel for the stamina of your father, how feeble he is but people don’t always die from their major malady. At 84 in the US he has already outlived most men.
He would have a life expectancy of about 6.44 more years with all cause mortality.
But in end stage or nearing end stage Alzheimers, I would expect the doctor to know her patient’s prognosis.

How fit he was in his middle years makes a difference as well as it acts as foundational strength.

The speech therapy is really important for all the reasons mentioned.

Additionally all the therapies are beneficial for the caregiver. You aren’t looking to cure him or restore him but to keep him comfortable, stretched and able to transition. The therapist can teach you how to better manage him w/o hurting yourself or hurting him. Their evaluation when they see him can help you decide.

The average life expectancy for a male born today is 76.5.

Sometimes it helps to put it all in perspective.
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Reply to 97yroldmom
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My dad was diagnosed with mixed dementia in Jan 2021 at age 76 and passed away in May 2024 at age 80.

He had a few swallowing problems earlier on but they didn’t get bad until his last few weeks. Same thing with speech.

He was also resistant and combative and would not cooperate with PT or OT or even drinking water or anything else or eating anything except small amounts of ice cream his last 6 months. We tried Thick-It and many other things and he flat out refused all of it. I think malnutrition and chronic dehydration contributed to his other physical issues (most likely multiple forms of cancer). So, I would say dementia was not the primary cause of his death but it certainly contributed. He was in home hospice the last 4 months. His immediate cause of death was aspiration pneumonia as is very common with dementia.

His geriatrician pointed to poor bloodwork values and also chronic wasting and weight loss as major reasons for concern with increasing urgency his last 12 months. I believe problems swallowing led to dehydration which in turn led to increased falls, along with muscle wastage from not eating.

All this to say— it really depends a lot on all the factors going on with your dad. No one knows for sure, but geriatricians do treat people at the end of their lives, so have way more experience than most of us.

It sounds like you are doing everything you can so he can be as comfortable and engaged as he reasonably can at this time in his life. He is lucky to have you. Don’t burn yourself out!
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Reply to Suzy23
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So sorry for your father's ordeal and for yours too. I really hope it doesn't go on for another two years. I hope she's wrong. That's horrifying.
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Reply to Hothouseflower
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I may not do the PT/OT because Dad probably can't take instructionbut you can try. The swallowing he definitely needs. That person will be able to tell you hoe to thicken the liquids. From what I understand, they need to be done a certain way.
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Reply to JoAnn29
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If your dad is now having trouble swallowing it most definitely is time to start thickening his drinks with the product Thick-It(or the like) and pureeing his foods or he will develop aspiration pneumonia which in most cases is fatal. That is very common with folks with any of the dementias as the brain forgets to tell the throat to do its job thus allowing food and drinks to go into ones lungs.
Only God knows that day and time that He'll take your dad Home, but from what you've written it sure doesn't sound like it will be long at all, so just enjoy whatever time you may have left with him.
And quite honestly I don't think that I would put your dad through anymore therapies at all as his brain is so severely broken that he's not going to retain anything at this point anyway. Just let him enjoy whatever time he may have left with out putting him through things that won't help anyway.
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Reply to funkygrandma59
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serkey 21 hours ago
Thank you funkygrandma59. I appreciate the drink thickening/pureed food advice, we will most definitely consider that. In my mind, the therapies would just keep him a bit mobile and engaged a bit with something to do and also would serve as a mental health element for my mom in that she's always worried he's not stimulated enough and it really bothers her when he just has to sit there. She often has made some of this journey about her, and I do understand her frustration, her exhaustion, her need to control something when everything seems so out of control...If I see that the therapies are just frustrating or wearing my dad out, I will stop them for HIS sake.
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A geriatrician would certainly be familiar with the many many patients they work with and so this is an "average" but not a guarantee. Although I don't have the same experience as others with end-stage ALZ, if it were my Mom I don't think I'd prolong things with PT/OT if they can't retain anything in memory or even understand what was happening. I'm so sorry you both have to endure this. May you receive peace in your heart no matter what you decide on his behalf.
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Reply to Geaton777
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serkey 21 hours ago
Thank you Geaton777. I do see your point of PT/OT not being able to help him in terms of maintaining anything, but for the day, I wonder if it just at least would give him a chance to interact, move, do something and so help give some factor of joy if even brief and fleeting. I mean, it's work to do all those therapies so he might not feel like doing it on some days and that'll be ok too. For my mom, I think it'll help her to see him being engaged in something during his waking hours. She's always fretting that the caregiver isn't engaging him enough, but it's so hard to do that with someone with his stage of dementia. They are all doing the best they can.
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His cognitive score is so low, he’s probably forgetting what to do when he notices food in his mouth. Not eating much is not the same thing as no longer being able to swallow. Please do not consider a feeding tube because it is very uncomfortable, hard to manage, and you can’t just have it pulled to let them die a natural death when you are ready to let them go. It gets complicated and that’s where they end up emaciated in bed for years in misery. Follow his lead in this last stage. I’m so sorry. 1-2 years might be a generous estimate.
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Reply to ShirleyDot
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serkey 22 hours ago
Thank you ShirleyDot. I definitely will not be considering the feeding tube. what a miserable way to "live" especially with this type of disease at this age and with no hope to get better.
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Hi serkey, I'm so sorry, but what you're describing sounds like fairly advanced late stage dementia to me. He may have difficulty doing OT/PT at this point. Think about if you need to switch him to a 'chopped' diet, or even pureed food-a danger is that he is at risk for aspirating food or water and getting bacterial pneumonia. My mom actually ended up forgetting how to use a straw, and did better with a small cup. As the disease continues to progress you may notice him sleeping more and/or eating less, even losing weight. These are signs his body is conserving energy and moving towards an end. At that point, or if he becomes acutely ill, you may want to bring a hospice on board. So sorry, just went through this with Mom and even though we may know it's coming for years it's never easy.
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Reply to ElizabethY
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serkey 21 hours ago
Thanks ElizabethY for your reply. I was wondering if the OT/PT and speech therapy would be worth doing. Honestly, in my head it was more of an "activity" to do while he's at home. My mom is full time caregiver for my dad (we have caregiver services everyday, all day also) and I also was thinking about her...she wants him to have things to do besides sit and watch tv. The caregiver does they to engage him with cards, chatting, music and movement. it does get hard to come up with things all day, everyday - for my dad it doesnt matter if he does the same thing everyday, but for my mom, I think she's more at ease seeing he's got something to do. I also want him to be able to be as mobile as possible to avoid that achy body feeling you get when you've just sat all day. Does that make sense? You have given me something to think about and consider though.
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I do believe that a lot of the answer depends upon the individual and how much stamina and fortitude they have. In 1995, my dad was diagnosed with 2 types of stomach cancer. He had his stomach removed and his intestines were tied into his esophagus. The surgeon gave him 6-9 months to live. Dad lived a relatively good life for almost 2 years. He lost a lot of weight, winding up weighing about what he did in high school. The one cancer returned, just as the surgeon had predicted, in February of '97. Dad underwent chemotherapy and hung on until he and Mom celebrated their 50th anniversary. He passed away about 3 weeks later because the oncologist said the chemotherapy wasn't working. Dad knew it, we knew it. The Monday after their anniversary, the chemo was stopped. But he had a great two years, for the most part.
However, I have found that the Hospice nurses are pretty spot on.
So, depending upon how quickly your loved one is going down, if it starts progressing more quickly, then the doctor may re-evaluate him. Otherwise, I think it's 50/50. That's just my opinion.
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Reply to MTNester1
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serkey 21 hours ago
Thanks MTNester1. I agree that so much depends on the individual and what's going on. I also wonder when is it time for hospice to come in? I failed to ask the doctor that yesterday while discussing PT/OT/speech therapy. It just didn't occur to me to bring that topic into the fold. So sorry for the loss of your dad. How special that he was able to be with your mom to celebrate 50 years. My parents just celebrated 60 years on May 1.
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