MIL is 96. We just heard she will need to pay $1,000 per month to be eligible for Medicaid for 5 years in the state of Washington. That gets her nothing but eligibility. I think it's because she paid one son for rent, food, etc.
We don't have $1000/month for 5 years to give her. My husband is willing to find a way. We are in our mid 70s. I don't want to risk our savings. We have already given her a large amount of money for an emergency, plus helped during respite visits.
Do I need to hire an attorney to protect my assets? Do I get a financial separation? My husband just threatened to take me to leaders at our church, but he won't even reason with me to set a reasonable financial boundary.
I'm open for advice.
Just so sorry.
2. Certian assest allotments are in place, no matter what state lived in.
3. If there was money being paid to the one son as you say, it must not have been proven to Medicaid yet. An agreement written up and signed by all parties should fix that, without it she's jeopardized Medicaid payments and the son is jeopardizing his future needs for Medicaid too.
4. As such, you giving towards MIL jeopardizes your future needs too! Gifting allowances are with the IRS ONLY. As I'm currently dealing with this same issue with my Mom.
So much I'm still learning yet, but don't forget once a decision is made by the dept., it can be appealed. That appeal alone could solve things.
MIL paying for services or things, gets passed by, but gifting gets added up and counts against.
That being the case, you need some advice from a lawyer about what your mom's situation, her options, and options for your later years. You also need advise from a financial planner to help you be prepared for your later years. Have your husband agree to meet with these people to help with creating your plan.
You might be surprised at how God will provide.
yes, I’d make an appointment with a lawyer and DO NOT tell your husband.
Good luck.
Really...he is going to tattle to the church? Please. Would he be willing to fork over $1000 per month to support one of your family members? I doubt it. First of all, I wouldn't tolerate being talked to like that from my spouse. It's "our" money and security you're giving away, not "yours". Statistically you will out live him and be stuck with the financial mess he creates. If push comes to shove, do what you need to do to protect yourself.
I think I understand a little more clearly after reading your subsequent response.
My question is, why is she applying for medicaid? When we lived in Minnesota, there was a "spenddown" amount, like a monthly co-pay, or deductible, that was determined by the county medicaid office, based on my husband's income.
So, we had to pay roughly $1,000 (it varied, sometimes more) toward medical expenses that were covered by medicaid.
Generally, this is only used when the medicaid recipient is in a nursing home, and their income does not cover the cost. So, for instance, if your MIL was in a nursing home, with a monthly cost of $4,000, but her SS income is only $1200, medicaid will apply all of her income toward the cost, and let her keep $200 for necessities, and medicaid pays the difference. That $1,000 would be her share of payment.
It is assumed she will no longer have to pay for a home and living expenses, as she would be living in the nursing home, all expenses paid.
When my husband was kicked out of the nursing home (for unmanageable behaviors), and I quit my job to take care of him at home, the same "spenddown" applied. However, I was able to be paid as his full time caregiver, which was more than enough to cover the spenddown amount, which I had deducted from my pay to satisfy the monthly spenddown co-pay.
You and your husband should not need to pay for her medical expenses!
Your MIL should not apply for medicaid just to have it available to her. When she is in a care setting and the cost exceeds her income and assets, Medicaid will help to pay for it, but she can't just keep all her money and assets! She will have to exhaust her money before Medicaid covers the remainder.
I agree with Dawn88, if your husband chooses his mother over you, it's time to separate at least your assets!
Gena / Touch Matters
If you agree or stand with this status quo, you will be putting yourself in financial jeopardy.
Gena / Touch Matters
If the husband is putting his mother before his wife in financial matters, he likely puts others before her in many ways. Bottom line is his wife isn't that important to him.
I think you're spot on about the OP talking to a lawyer and protecting her own financial future.
“…and will have my husband call them to get actual information.”
You cannot CONTINUE to take the back seat on this. This is YOUR future. YOU need to see an eldercare attorney ALONE, at least for the first meeting.
“Thanks for all the information!!! My husband is working on it!”
This is NOT good news. You complained that your husband was going to override your decision and now you are gleefully “handing him the keys to the car!”🤦🏻♀️
I totally agree. This is not good news. The OP should not just fall in line with what her husband decides. He can do what he wants with HIS disposable income. He has no right to expect his wife to contribute to his mother's care bill. He also has no right to expect her to have a reduced lifestyle because household money is going towards his mother's bills.
The state of Washington will put her out on the street if needs a nursing home or memory care if she didn't pay $1,000 a month for five years prior to needing it?
No, they won't.
You say you want some advice. Well, here's some. Start with leaving the church leaders and their sanctimonious nonsense out of your business. You and your husband are adults and the two of you can work things out yourselves.
It may be a good idea to start having separate finances. Both of you pay equally for your home, insurance, food, maintenance and everything else, but you do not contribute to his mother's care bill. Not one cent. If he chooses the contribute his disposable income to his mother, then that's his choice. You don't give him extra money.
Your MIL should be paying her own bills. Not depending on her kids. Also, your BIL not allowing her a free, all expenses paid living arrangement is not what will cause trouble with her Medicaid eligibility. He had every right to charge her for rent, food, and utilities. Life isn't free and Medicaid doesn't expect it to be free for family.
If your MIL gifted money to your BIL, that will count if she actually applies for Medicaid. But at 96 years old, I really wouldn't worry so much about it.
He has spoken to a social worker that works for the home care agency and they are saying it will cost 2,000.00 a month more then she has, is this correct?
If the above are correct, I would recommend that you guys try to find a private hire caregiver. You will get waaaayyyyyy more care for your dollar.
Honestly, if your MIL lives in Washington, you must see a certified elder law attorney that can help you all understand how medicaid works, because the information you were given is a straight out lie. She will not be eligible for Medicaid in 5 years if you all payy 1,000.00 a month towards paying this agency.
Please speak with someone that will not benefit from milking you all dry, senior care is notorious for lying through their teeth to get people on board with there over priced, lack luster services and, most importantly have an attorney read any contracts BEFORE they are signed.
Your best option is to see an Elder Care attorney that is well versed in the requirements of the state you live in. If there is a "gifting" situation during the typically 5 year look back period prior to applying for Medicaid, the state requires that to be paid back or care to be provide in-lieu. There is something called a "penalty divisor" which is used to calculate how much is "owed" if gifting occurs in the 5 year look back period. The Penalty Divisor varies by state. But the basic idea is that you take the total amount that was gifted across all sources, and divide it by the Penalty Divisor.
The example that is on the Medicaid site is for Florida for a total gifting amount of $115,000 during the look back period. The Penalty Divisor is $10,438 for Florida. So the "amount penalized" is $115,000/$10,428 - which equals 11.01 months that someone would need to pay for care or provide care before Medicaid will be approved.
You can find this information on the medicaidplanningassistance.org site.
You mention that a Social Worker quoted you $1,000 a month. that seems odd and even low to me based on what I understand about gifting and penalty divisors.
But the reality is that you should see an elder care attorney. If your MIL paid her fair share of bills while living with BIL- you should be able to show documentation of what she paid and what it was for. That would hopefully negate the "gifting" issue. But if you would have to have proof of the payments and the usage.
My first thought was - why are you and your DH on the hook for $1,000 a month for FIVE years (that doesn't sound right to me unless gifting was astronomically high and even then it wasn't gifted to YOU, it was gifted to BIL correct?)
If the issue is about a “gifting” issue so mom gave $ to the other son (OPs BIL), uncovered in the required lookback that caseworker does for LTC Medicaid applications, that is a transfer penalty and 100% done as you so aptly posted. It won’t be 1K.
There’s a communication issue on what’s what.
There are different types of Medicaid and different eligibility requirements.
Your MIL may not be eligible for Medicaid as her secondary insurance because she is over-incomed. This isn't the same as the Medicaid that pays for a nursing home. If your MIL has to go into a nursing home her assets (if she has any and they are unprotected) will have to be spent-down on her care. The nursing home will take her monthly income which will not cover her bill. Then Medicaid will pay the rest.
I would encourage you to tell your husband that he and BIL need to go see a Certified elder law attorney and figure out how to deal with this before they start dishing out their own retirement funds.
If BIL doesn't want to take this action, well, he probably has something to hide and that means he can foot the bill solo.
Perhaps the elders can convince your husband that he is not supposed to be a tyrant but, a loving husband to his queen.
Prayers that this can get sorted out without a war.
You do need to have your assets split. If DH wants to use up his split on Mom, then so be it. If you have SS, pension, 401k or IRAs in your nsme, you should not need to use them for your MILs care.
If this is a deal breaker then I would get a divorce and a division of assets that way. Thing is, this is sort of an either or in which you are a loser. It is very expensive to live apart. Two households with two sets of utilities and two cars and two this and that and everything else. Many people stay together, in fact, because they cannot AFFORD to separate.
You are in a dilemma. This is what happens when there is "gifting" to family.
Not everything can be fixed, but any husband that thinks to take me to church leaders? Yeah. I am divorcing him no matter WHAT IT COSTS. And "good riddance to bad rubbish" as my bro always used to say about awful people.
Today, I found a better source for my husband to get better information-it's the Center For Aging in MIL's hometown, and they can look up her information and connect him to someone who can work out the finances. I also know someone who does this kind of thing for a living, but it's not in her state. I'll consult with him. Initial info came from a Social Worker, for the Home Health Agency they're looking for. She has a monthly income that is $200 above what Medicaid allows. Will also ask him to consult with a Certified Medicaid Planner.
The leaders of your church have no legal rights in this. Do not talk to them. If they pressure you in any way, ask them to pray for your family, then leave or usher them out your door or hang up on them if it's on the phone.
Seeing your own lawyer immediately seems like the best path forward for you. While you're at it, ask the lawyer if he'd recommend a total divorce, not just a financial one. Your husband must be a complete dolt to treat you the way he does.
P.S. Find a new church.
I do have a lot more peace today. I have found a few Marriage Counselors I can meet with-just need to choose one. With God anything is possible. He's done so many miracles in our lives. This is just a hurdle, and with His grace, and great advisor's help-we'll get over it. My BIL is working really hard at caring for her in the home they rent together.
The penalty is a formula specific to your state.
I’m assuming also that someone tried to apply for Medicaid and when her bank accounts were checked this came up?
Tell us more about how this dollar amount was computed? Also paying her son for the items you mentioned could have been explained. She had to have those items to live. She needed a contract between herself and her son for a clear simple record.
You need a certified elder attorney to help you and your DH understand how your own gifting to his mother can jeopardize your own potential need for Medicaid in your futures. Unless he has a crystal ball he can’t truly know what the future holds. Healthcare is so very expensive. At the same time this same qualified professional can look over MILs financials and see if her application was presented correctly. Sometimes well meaning intelligent people can make mistakes. There is a reason why certified elder attorneys exist. They understand the complicated laws that help people like MIL get the care she needs when on the surface it looks like she may have been scammed by brother.
Find out more about WHO told brother he had to pay for her care for five years before she would qualify.
‘I’m so sorry this has happened.
Thanks for your compassion.
Nor should you both pay $1,000 a month for 5 years out of your own money! That is $60,000 you need for your own old age. Where is MIL's money? She must have Social Security or some income she used to pay her son rent. Apparently that money falls under "gifting" and prevents her eligibility when she needs it.
A good Elder lawyer should be able to guide you.
Your husband "threatened to take you to the leaders at your church?" What a joke.
What can they do about it? NOTHING. Let the church pony up $60,000!
Tell your bully husband to talk to your divorce lawyer. His Mom probably won't last another 5 years. He made vows to you, not his Mother. Where is MIL staying now? If he puts his Mother over you, I'd divorce him.