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By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid. We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour. APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
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V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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Consult an NAELA attorney. Be advised that Medicaid's five year lookback includes all these asset transfers that don't occur BEFORE you apply for Medicaid.
Generally living trusts provide asset protection, to an extent.
I have the feeling there's more to this issue and that the immediate need for asset protection arises from something other than the desire to avoid probate.
If the desire is to protect assets from creditors, this is definitely a question for an estate planning attorney (not just an elder law attorney). If the desire is to protect assets from family, a well drafted trust with a pour-over will and specific disinheritance or limitation clauses might be more appropriate.
Get an atty, none of this is a DIY project as the nuances of your state laws will be very important to have things done properly & valid & without issues.
Realize that some things done to avoid probate - like annuities, which are an insurance product - lock up your funds so that if say something not ever planned for changes in the future, the surrender charges will be quite, quite significant. At 88, that is probably either outside of or at the edge of actuarial tables used by companies.
To avoid parts of probate (which took about 8 months for my father even though problem free in Minnesota) we put remaining assets in a revokable living trust with Mom as the trustee and named two daughters as successor trustees. Once she became unable to manage her financial affairs as evidenced by a doctor's letter and letters signed by all 4 daughters, the successor trustees went in place. The stated purpose of the trust is for Mom's support and maintenance, and we are paying private pay for her life out of that trust. So, mainly it was just to avoid having assets locked up in probate (such as her home) for so long after her death. However, as years went by and she got more incapacitated, it became a way to control her spending based on remaining life expectancy and projected costs which she could never have done.
What types of assets does the person own? Your question requires an understanding of the categories of assets. There are simple ways to avoid probate of some types of assets using beneficiary designations on the account records kept by the financial institution or custodian; other asset categories (like real estate) require careful consideration. Don't try to transfer real estate without professional counsel. Let an attorney take responsibility for protecting the owner's interests.
Your question indicates an interest in asset protection. If this means protecting assets from financial predators and scammers, fiduciary services of a Trustee can establish a fire wall of protection.
If your question is asking about protecting assets from long term care expenses, you should hire an elder law attorney who understands Medicaid eligibility rules, and is committed to protect the elder's quality of life as a first priority.
Roger - in another post you mention your mom is 85 & looking for a way to protect assets. But whether mom is 88 or 85 doing anything to transfer or gift assets between now and the Spring of 2021 will mean a transfer penalty inquiry by Medicaid. You say Medicaid is not involved but really isn't this a ? about how to get around the spend down or "at need" requirement by Medicaid?
2021 is a really really long time from now........
The costs of ltc care are pretty staggering. If mom has a solid mid or upper 6 figures or even more, then she has funds to set aside in something liquid to pay for care (maybe 300k for 3 years in NH) and also do something more creative with the left over. See an elder law atty on this as they will have FA they work with.
But if mom is like most elderly with older house with assessor of 100k/200k and under 100k in savings, she will likely need both to pay for her care as an event is going to happen (a fall, a fire, wandering) that causes her to move from her home to a facility for her own safety & health.
Once they get into their 80's there is imho no "silver bullet" to get asset avoidance / protection done unless they have a huge existing amount of money. Most elderly need their $ to pay for their care first & foremost. And only when thats spent down can they get medicaid. Really even a short period of IL or AL or NH and paying for things outside of Medicare, like dental, and doing a full paid funeral will run through their $. And these are legit no transfer penalty expenses.
If the elder wants to keep their home, they can under Medicaid rules. But family will need to pay on all costs on the house either from their own wallet or rent the home. And after the elders death deal with Medicaid estate recovery /MERP.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Answer This Question
medicaid is not involved.
I have the feeling there's more to this issue and that the immediate need for asset protection arises from something other than the desire to avoid probate.
If the desire is to protect assets from creditors, this is definitely a question for an estate planning attorney (not just an elder law attorney). If the desire is to protect assets from family, a well drafted trust with a pour-over will and specific disinheritance or limitation clauses might be more appropriate.
Realize that some things done to avoid probate - like annuities, which are an insurance product - lock up your funds so that if say something not ever planned for changes in the future, the surrender charges will be quite, quite significant. At 88, that is probably either outside of or at the edge of actuarial tables used by companies.
Your question indicates an interest in asset protection. If this means protecting assets from financial predators and scammers, fiduciary services of a Trustee can establish a fire wall of protection.
If your question is asking about protecting assets from long term care expenses, you should hire an elder law attorney who understands Medicaid eligibility rules, and is committed to protect the elder's quality of life as a first priority.
2021 is a really really long time from now........
The costs of ltc care are pretty staggering. If mom has a solid mid or upper 6 figures or even more, then she has funds to set aside in something liquid to pay for care (maybe 300k for 3 years in NH) and also do something more creative with the left over. See an elder law atty on this as they will have FA they work with.
But if mom is like most elderly with older house with assessor of 100k/200k and under 100k in savings, she will likely need both to pay for her care as an event is going to happen (a fall, a fire, wandering) that causes her to move from her home to a facility for her own safety & health.
Once they get into their 80's there is imho no "silver bullet" to get asset avoidance / protection done unless they have a huge existing amount of money. Most elderly need their $ to pay for their care first & foremost. And only when thats spent down can they get medicaid. Really even a short period of IL or AL or NH and paying for things outside of Medicare, like dental, and doing a full paid funeral will run through their $. And these are legit no transfer penalty expenses.
If the elder wants to keep their home, they can under Medicaid rules. But family will need to pay on all costs on the house either from their own wallet or rent the home. And after the elders death deal with Medicaid estate recovery /MERP.